[000:00:00;00] in the bunker with your friends, well, listen, well, we gave them such an opportunity , they don't appreciate it, some appreciate it, poles appreciate it, slovaks appreciate people, romanians appreciate it, i think that all intelligent people and politicians understand all this, that's why membership in nato, we have more than 30 of these chapters or chapters, we will talk about more than one year, it will take more than two years, it will take many years, and each country will have its own nuances, the most difficult. will probably be with the border countries that later joined the european union, you know, they they also demanded a lot from them, they will also try to wring something out of us for themselves, it will happen, but not in the way it is said now, with the narratives of the country that is attacking us, then it will move more into the economy, more into such

things, access to the funds of the european union, but i emphasize once again, if there is a first accession to nato , then i see how to do it, and showing our contribution to the security sphere, and if we reach out with our hands to brussels to the eu, and at the same time if we do not provide a security umbrella, then it will be very difficult for us to talk to them. thank you, mr. valery, in just a few minutes we will return to our conversation, now our journalist, who is in brussels, tetyana vysotska, joins our program. tatyana, i congratulate you and welcome. greetings, sergey, i am also very glad to see, so today the european parliament adopted a resolution demanding increased control by the european union for compliance with sanctions against russia, the european parliamentarians said that there are sanctions against russia, but these sanctions are used by some countries to to make money, well bypassing sanctions together with russia, which

the countries discussed in the european parliament. and that the european parliament in what way will apply sanctions to those who violate sanctions? yes, in fact, the european parliament identified two major directions in which russia circumvents european sanctions, the first direction is the export to the european union from russia of russian energy carriers, and the second direction is actually the export from the european union to russia of military goods and dual purpose goods. technologies and equipment that can be used for production of weapons in the defense sphere, and therefore the european parliament for the first time in history, because before the names of states were heard only on the sidelines or at committee meetings, for the first time in an official document of the european parliament, a proper list of states that help russia avoid sanctions is given. let's start, for example, with energy carriers and with russian gas, in the resolution

of the european parliament... today it is said that the european parliament is worried about the information that azerbaijan is bleaching russian gas, it is said that azerbaijan exports gas that passes off as its own, and this is actually gas of russian origin, and here i will quote the resolution part of the document adopted today . of oil, how russian oil unofficially enters the territory of the european union, european deputies say, through india, india increases the export to the eu of the oil products it produces, actually with russian crude oil, which it buys in russia, and likewise, european mps emphasize that russia has redirected crude oil exports from the eu to india, which we

have already mentioned, as well as to china and tours. now for military and dual purpose goods. the resolution states that an analysis of the russian federation's weapons captured on the battlefield indicates that russia continues to import critical western components. and for example, the import of semiconductors even increased compared to the pre-war level. and here the european parliament gives a large list of states that help russia get these very important ones. components for the production of weapons, i read, to be absolutely correct, it is china, turkey, the united arab emirates, kazakhstan, kyrgyzstan and serbia. the resolution also talks about some countries of the south caucasus, but until it is clarified which countries, i think it will be appropriate to ask this question to the authors of the resolution, and we will definitely do it and discuss it in one of the next broadcasts, and here the resolution says

about the fact that these states i have listed... have become hubs through which critical products from the eu are redirected to russia, that is, here is such a powerful resolution regarding the exposure of these hidden friends of russia in the world, and also the european parliament, of course , emphasizes that the european union must approve new mechanisms for monitoring the implementation of sanctions and, first of all mechanisms for punishing these states, which help russia avoid sanctions, because the main purpose of sanctions is the economic weakening of russia so that it cannot continue an actively aggressive war in ukraine, and so far european deputies state that this goal is not being fulfilled as it should be . tatyana, that is, for some it is war, for some it is a mother, well, that is, india, china, and turkey, well, earlier there was information that turkish tankers

were transporting russian oil to european markets, but i understand that the european community has not yet reached an agreement on what to do in this situation, that is , it turns out... that this entire list includes china, turkey, the arab emirates, india, kyrgyzstan, kazakhstan, and serbia that they everyone should also be subject to sanctions or under some kind of close control, or in some way it can be controlled , well, the europeans probably also understand where their oil comes from, where their gas comes from, and they understand very well that this is part of russian energy carriers, and absolutely. exactly, and of course, the european union cannot introduce sanctions against china, because china is its very important strategic economic partner, as well as turkey and other countries, it is true, but nevertheless, ursula fondern, the president

of the european commission, when she recently talked about plans for the 12th package of sanctions against russia, which, by the way, will be announced, maybe even this week, not even next, but this week, this is the last such fresh information, let's see, then she announced that the european union, the european the commission is already working to introduce the appropriate sanctions mechanism for those who help russia avoid sanctions, what will it be exactly, what will the first step be taken by the european commission, let's see when it will be announced, the essence of the 12th package of sanctions will be announced, let's hope that they still came up with something in order to make these states that are profiting from the war of russia against ukraine to be tricked. thank you tetyana, it was tetyana vesutska, a correspondent from brussels who works in european institutions. friends, we are working live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us on youtube and facebook. please vote in our poll

, we are asking you about whether there is a place for opzh deputies in the current government, it seems like a rhetorical question, but still, yes, no, if you vote in a telephone poll, during the telecast. you can call 0800-211-381, that's right, no, 0800-211-382. all calls are free for you, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote, well, we return to our conversation with valery chaly, with the politician and diplomat, mr. valery, we have already heard that the european parliament passed a resolution on circumventing the sanctions imposed against russian federation. and tatiana named the list of countries that help russia avoid these sanctions. that's it

the list and the country and in general, there is no sanctions policy yet regarding rosatom, a large organization that operates all over the planet on behalf of the russian federation, we see that, in principle, there are still many opportunities that would force russia to abandon an aggressive war. against ukraine, why are the europeans, quite gradually , let's put it mildly, applying these sanctions against russia? by us well, look, this question is broader. in fact, always when sanctions are applied in the case. violation of the article of the un, the second article of the un, this is aggression, the outbreak of war, we remember this with you, what were the sanctions against iraq at the time, this is the embargo, against iran,

that is, these are all games gradually introduced there in order to it didn't hurt itself, but to squeeze russia , they didn't even have a chance to succeed from the very beginning, if you are not ready to work for 3-5 years, then yes, you can strangle the economy of russia, five years, maybe more, that is, if it is in a short period, it should be an embargo, and that the consequences will also be for the countries that will suffer from this, if the embargo on oil, gas, all supplies is complete, but it would be a short period, well, i think a year and then it would be a completely different story, well, we see what you are saying, everyone is trying , first of all, to make sense, and if the same hungary at... a big request, yes, at least

moscow, said that no sanctions it does not want an atom, a gas, or a nuclear power, so it is very difficult to have a common position, that is why from one sides have a unified position, and here we still need to have a unified position, at least a transatlantic one, because it is difficult to count on china, on india, of course, this is a loophole, unfortunately, created by these large countries for russian war crimes, and thus... in in principle, the pressure was increasing, increasing, and now even the pace, the dynamics of increasing sanctions has fallen, this is a lot, because we did not make sanctions an effective tool, sanctions act quickly, cutting off the possibility of a reaction in the country, and even giving a year or two for that to find ways then you will find 50 workarounds, lead, just constantly introduce bans, other companies will open, they will import.

isn't it clear why in rosatom, why in atomic, well, there are a lot of interests, there is the dependence of russian components and fuel, there is also money invested, there are stations being built, after all, this is a kirienka who managed rosatom, who is close to putin , that is, here there is money, where there is money, it is very difficult to talk about morality, mr. valery, during the last few weeks, if not months, in the western media, the topic of possible negotiations, peace talks with the russian federation, information is constantly, constantly thrown in under different sauces, with reference to some sources, named or unnamed sources, the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, dmytro kuleba, commented on the appeals of western officials regarding peace talks between ukraine and russia, i will quote his tweet , which kuleba says, for those with a short memory. from 2014 to 2022, ukraine held

about 200 rounds of negotiations with russia, during this period 20 ceasefire agreements were reached, all of which were quickly violated by russia, none of the 200 rounds of negotiations or 20 cease-fire agreements prevented putin from launching a brutal all-out invasion of ukraine on february 24 , 22, those who say ukraine should negotiate with russia now or are ignorant. either introduced to oman, or they side with russia, want putin to pause before more aggression, those who say that ukraine should negotiate with russia now, or are ignorant, well, that's a repeat, sorry, that is, kuleba clearly says that there is none what to talk about with russia, and conduct any negotiations, what do you say, when the moment comes, when we enter the negotiation... process with russia, if not directly, then

at least at two round tables, where ukraine and representatives of the world community, there are different countries or international organizations, on the other hand the russian federation, sooner or later such a moment must come? i really see three types of negotiations that will most likely take place, the first are negotiations during the war. about the exchange of prisoners, by the way, it slowed down a bit now, unfortunately, ours are also there, don’t forget, thousands and thousands of our fellow citizens are in captivity, azov is in captivity there, our people butkevich, maksoy have been taken there, it is not known where, we need to raise this public, they are taking our prisoners somewhere, what will happen to them is happening, we don't know, it's just a disaster, it's not that the rules in the geneva conventions are not in compliance, it's already... the game has moved on, so we don't forget that it

is possible to negotiate, change prisoners, there are issues that relate to such humanitarian moments during the war, it is possible, and for there is no need for this level, president , it is clear that it is no longer possible to negotiate with putin , now the second type of negotiations, which you mentioned, with russia based on the results of the war, i really hope that such negotiations will not take place. i will explain, if only they will be, forget about the various options for reparations, compensation for russia, forget about it. at least until the russians there themselves surrender, that is, what happened with milosevic, forget all that, this scenario is very bad for ukraine, direct negotiations with russia, as you said in two tables, well, as we saw during the so-called grain agreement, yes, i also believe that

it is a surrogate, it is, in fact, between russia and ukraine, by and large, and it is unlikely to succeed in this form. will decide the issue, can there be a meeting or a decision of a specially created international structure that will give its verdict to speak with ukraine and russia, it may be, but i do not see a formal peace signed between ukraine and russia in the coming years, despite that we can achieve significant results next year, and the hot phase of the war is possible. to really turn it into more of a war, well, i don’t know how we have anti-terrorist operation, and even before that, because across the border , even after the deoccupation, the russians will still constantly fire at us, i have no doubt about it, as long as there is such a regime, they should not do this, because russia

is headed by a group that does not recognize the right to existence of the ukrainian people, it does not recognize the right to exist of the state of ukraine, headed by putin, what is there to talk about? this war will continue until the fundamental situation changes, and there will be third parties negotiations, and they will definitely take place, about russian payments, about russian capitulation, it will be either with the collapse of russia, which i do not know if the next period will happen, some say that anything is possible, or with a change of power, when there will be a new, new , if he changes the regime adopted for the international club, demands will be made. well, it’s also the sanctions, they want to take them, and there will be demands, so god forbid we see all the formal signings with putin next year, and that’s why i think that our leaders absolutely understand our leadership. the authorities understand this, so no matter who raises

this issue, they will even say, we don't give you weapons, so what, so what, we will produce ourselves, we will do it ourselves? and all this, i, that, i am against the war, the kind that is happening now , it is really the first world war, when people die, simply because of the fact that uh, well, we have such a water, such a person is ready to throw thousands, dozens thousands of our fellow citizens, we are actually forced to adapt to this format, we must try to go beyond this format, to remember that we were promised the support of political... pressure on russia on all fronts, not only, well, on all fronts, i will say one front, but now it is necessary to increase the pressure on russia, isolation, and the actions, which were consolidated enough, of the european union and the united states, there it would be necessary to strengthen once again such a spur to make a serious to squeeze, they

can be squeezed, it is possible, and there is a chance, if all efforts are consolidated, if joseph biden succeeds. san francisco is there in a week, so it's better for him not to stand up to putin. if all these stars align, i'm sure we'll have one a very good result next year, but only joint, it is not only the front. now, various other factors come into play again. if there are successes at the front and there are quick deoccupation actions. then if other factors take a back seat, if there is a positional war and we, well, apart from the sea, there, of course, our successes are huge on the black sea, in the crimea, well, from there along the line of desolation, you can see from a positional point of view, this is more or less around the same settlements, so

here it is necessary to strengthen other factors, then the maximum financial assistance to ukraine, sanctions, isolation of russia, negotiations with all are important. countries, the search for joint actions and the concentration of all efforts for the next months, a maximum of six months, and then we will see what to talk about, but i emphasize once again, god forbid, we will formally sign all of this with russia, some piece of paper, which she will then throw out as usual and will continue to attack us , you have to understand that this regime is completely negotiable, so let's talk, look , putin was once a man with a good memory , i can testify to that, he used to talk the participation of the ukrainian delegation, that now... it happens that he memorizes surnames, names, he forgets the names of his closest associate,

a person who also came from somewhere in the same spheres as president takaev, he can no longer remember the name of the president, from with whom he communicates very often, this means that what is happening with him, well, yes, and you want to sign with such a person, that, well, it is necessary, it is necessary, it is necessary, you already mentioned about... about putin's visit to astana and what it happened there, we have a small story, or rather a video, like takay reacted to the fact that putin once again confused his name and patronymic, he began

to speak in a fairy tale, let's see. well, you just have to look at the faces of the russians, how they reacted, but don't learn what your name is. kasim zhamar is also, in principle, it is very strange, but here is also how takayev reacted, what is it, what does it mean that he is simply fed up with being treated as some second-rate state leader there, or is it basically like that feeling the power of china, which has a presence, a large presence in kazakhstan, still gives forces of itokayev, behave more loosely with the russians, well, despite the fact that china's influence is cut there.

in kazakhstan, and kazakhstan received certain assurances of support from china, but all the same, russia's influence remains serious, militarily, kazakhstan is vulnerable to the russian army, well, not now, when ukraine has actually absorbed all this, all the strikes and all combat-capable russian units, well not all, but 80% for sure, and that is why kazakhs now have... a certain pause and can speak more boldly, in the economy, they understood that these are all customs unions, all kinds of spaces, all this is interpreted by the russians only in their own way, therefore, i think that kazakhstan's position will be bolder, but it depends on the results of our actions with russia, let's talk more, mr. valery, about the situation that is developing in the united states of america, there is information that the united states of america has taken a step regarding the transfer of assets of the russian

federation in ukraine. the foreign affairs committees of the house of representatives of the congress were supported by a bipartisan and bicameral majority bill on the use of frozen russian assets to help ukraine, of course, this law still needs to be adopted , and when it enters into force, in 108-180... days after its entry into force, it will be possible to operate with these assets, which are in russia, in the territory of the united states of america, as soon as the united states of america does this, does this mean that other states will apply similar practices in relation to russian assets for the benefit of ukraine, or is the united states of america the marker here in this case, an indicator for others, well, that's exactly it. the compensation path is a realistic path, that is, it is not what we said to you that russia would sign

the capitulation right now, and sanctions, including reparations, restitutions, substitutions, would be paid, or they would replace the stolen goods, but compensation could be that is why the americans are doing the right thing, that they are trying to make certain changes, even their own. in its regulation in order to simplify this procedure, eh, this is a difficult issue, but it seems that politically in the usa it has already been resolved, it is still moving in this direction, er, there is not only anglo-saxon law here, and indeed it may be easier where there is more anglo-saxon law, even precedents there , in europe it is more difficult, but nevertheless, if it goes here, there will be some ... real

steps in the usa, in canada, then they are there in britain, then i think that it will go, it will go better, eh, it is clear that everyone, in one way or another , is focused on the results of the next presidential elections, which will be held in the united states of america, and everyone is trying to understand how the policy regarding ukraine in the united states of america will change or not will change, the former permanent representative of the united states of america to the un, nikki haley, representative of the republican party of the united states of america, says that the states. continue to provide ammunition and other aid to ukraine, let's listen to what she has to say, first of all, we all remember what this thug did when he invaded ukraine, we all know that half a million people died because of putin, and here is this freedom-loving the country is now fighting for its survival and its democracy, no, i don't think we

should give them cash, i think we must...give them the equipment and ammunition to win, and i'll tell you this, if biden had done that when they first asked him, this war would have been over by now. well, we still have a small fragment of the speech of the 45th president of the united states of america, donald trump, who again scares americans with the third world war and says that he once ensured security, including ukraine. let's listen. the main task is to make america safe again. for four years under the trump administration, i have kept america safe, i have the security of israel, i ensured the security of ukraine, i ensured the security of the world, neither israel nor ukraine would have happened under the trump administration. there was no way that was going to happen. mr. valery, you

know american politics very well. politicians, what trump says is, of course, pre-election rhetoric, but to what extent it corresponds to what trump can do and in what way trump can do it, because these statements that in 24 hours, they will agree with putin to end the war in ukraine, and everything else, what he says, what he does, how much does it differ? much less than we expect, his actions are very similar to what he says, the other thing is that sometimes this entire american bureaucratic machine does not give the opportunity to fully realize all intentions, if president trump, when he was president, had the opportunity , not to be held back by any bureaucracy, you would

see a lot of interesting things as a result. we read it in those books, which came out very quickly after his presidency, so he is not joking, what does he mean, he means the meaning is very simple, he already said that if ukraine does not agree to stop at that moment, on those territories that are de-occupied, then he will stop supplying ukraine with weapons, and if putin does not agree to stop at that moment, then he will give ukraine much more than what he has today , it is true, but what kind of peace are we talking about, about a stable peace , hardly, that is, i think that this is not an illusion, and it is not only a pre-election struggle, it is also a calculation of what will happen at the end of the next year if

you sit down and look carefully at all the factors in the world, what will happen next, the end of next year, then i think you would be less surprised by these words, i really hope that this scenario will not happen, but donald trump, despite his image, and indeed he speaks very often , fooling the public, simplifies some things to make it clear to his voters, but in general , the strategy is convoluted, and frankly, it is very dangerous for ukraine and the world. so let's see, i am more, more alarmed by the way he is conducting this campaign now, not at all like the last one, he used to want attract such more moderate republicans, that is why he had a vice presidential candidate, his partner, well, absolutely