for the right to be ukrainians on this land. many thanks to everyone who actively participates in this struggle. thank you for being with us, in a few moments, the verdict program, let's watch together. good evening, we are from ukraine. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhii ordenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone. health. in the next two hours, the verdict will be on your screens, we will talk about the war, about the world, about victory, about ukraine, about everything that you talk about among yourselves, dear friends, well, today is in the program. the situation on the battlefield and not only what is behind unexpected visits to kyiv, austin and pistoris, about a malicious attempt on life and

a chance to kill putin, what zelensky told the newspaper. a million rounds of ammunition for the armed forces. when military aid from the eu will be promised. we will talk about this and other things for the next hour with our guest, politician and diplomat valery chaly. however, before starting our conversation, i suggest you watch a video about how after large-scale losses of your equipment. the occupiers near avdiivka are trying to storm the city with small groups of infantry, but knowing that they will not survive for long, mobilized russians pretend to be dead on the battlefield, that is, they crawl, crawl on the battlefield, and then cover themselves with the bodies of their already killed comrades. operators of the company of attack drones of the 47th separate mechanized brigade closely monitor their every breath, and record... how exactly the russian invaders

are trying to hide from the forces of ukrainian operations.

friends, for those who are currently watching us live on youtube and facebook, please like this video and also subscribe to our pages on these platforms in addition to in addition, you can take part in our survey, today we are conducting a survey and ask you about whether corruption in ukraine should be equated with treason, yes, no, if you are watching us now on tv and have a phone at hand, you can call

for the number 0800 211-381, that is, if you support that corruption in ukraine should be equated with treason, no: 0800 211-382, call, all calls to these numbers are free, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote , well in youtube you can also vote , there are two options, yes, no, or if you have a special opinion about how to overcome corruption in ukraine during this time, you can leave this opinion in the comments under this video. we are in touch with a politician, diplomat, ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary of ukraine to the united states of america in 2015-19, valery chalilei. mr. valery, i congratulate you and thank you for being with us today. i congratulate you, glory to ukraine. glory to the heroes, happy day of dignity and freedom, i congratulate you and our viewers as well. mr. valery, two at once ministers of the united states of america and

germany visited kyiv with an interval of one day. boris pistorius and lloyd austin came to ukraine. and promised help to the ukrainians, which, mr. valery, is evidenced by the personal presence of two ministers, two important countries for us, and should we expect a change in the tactics of the united states, america and germany against russia, such unannounced visits really took place, and i do not mean we do not do this, well, it happens with partners that they announce the travel in principle. you can would be to understand the main goal that they publicly declare, to assure of support for ukraine, in that such support in the military plan will continue, despite some moments that have arisen there, in the usa - it is the congress, something is blocked there, aid in

germany, we we also know that there are certain delays there regarding the shells, which was mentioned earlier, so they obviously wanted to send such a signal to the ukrainian society and especially to the enemies that no one can expect now that support for the event will be reduced, but in fact, what actually it is strange that this happened before ramstein , yes, that is, before the meeting of all of them together, it seems to me that there are still questions that they wanted to hear directly from the political leadership of the country and from the military leadership of the country. after all, these are people who are responsible for the position of their countries in the defense and military spheres, and therefore the information from the first university was very important to them,

and secondly, they probably want to coordinate the actions of each side, the usa and germany with ukraine, on the eve of ramstein, somehow solve the issue of dynamics. assistance, the amount of assistance, and which side, which issues can be insured, if, for example, political turbulence somewhere does not allow it to be done, so that now these are our two largest partners in the supply of military and technical equipment, the united states, the first year was generally the leader, one-man, but germany has taken a very serious step forward in the amount of military aid... to ukraine , that is, germany is now the leader among the countries of the european union, well, if we take individual countries, so in principle, these are the two most important countries from the point of view of supply volumes, well, boris pistorius, visiting kyiv, announced that

germany would transfer additional air defense systems to ukraine to protect ukrainian cities from russian missiles, let's hear what pistorius said. i have the honor and pleasure to announce a new package during my visit to kyiv, and this package includes , understandably, four additional irst slm systems, 155 mm artillery ammunition, and tank mines. in total, the package is 1 billion 300 million, this is already the fifth package from last winter, and i am absolutely sure that it will help you in the fight against russian aggression. he spoke in english and it was also frankly, well, it is strange to hear from a german minister in the ukrainian capital, because i think that german would also be understood through an interpreter, is it a normal practice for the german defense minister

to speak in english when he is away, well no , they actually speak german, but i think the internet is so much the issue here. international, they form a joint coalition, so in fact, i did not even turn to it attention, that is, you have to look at the bottom line, and the bottom line is that germany, i want to emphasize , has made huge strides, if you look at it in a year, from political assessments and great apprehension to what is happening now, we really have to appreciate that , what germany is doing now for ukraine, this is a huge turn simply in their attitudes. i 've seen it myself many times, being in different meetings with different foundations in germany many times, it's a revolutionary change for them really. and they simply opened their eyes

to what russia is, and finally, finally, they overcame the consequences of the second world war. and understood that the soviet union and russia are one and the same only from the point of view of such a fascist approach as germany. categorically condemns, the attitude towards people, in general, that crimes in wars, germany has moved away from this even now, russia wanted to return the same germany to the same, no, they said categorically no, they broke this historical connection, and now i think their attitude towards russia will be categorically different, that's why we have such support from the outside of germany and the chancellor of germany, mr. scholz has also seriously changed the rhetoric and what we expect there are some specifications,

i would very much like it, of course, but four airesty installations like this before winter, this is very important for ukrainian citizens, mr. valery, you said about the historical connection that existed between germany and russia , but there was a very large component of economic cooperation, because germany and russia... traded a lot with each other, and it was a big trade, and when angela merkel tried somehow, let's say so , maneuver between russia and the interests of the west, she always looked back at the german economy and those who were in this german economy, you watched how these relations developed, and you know between russia and germany, why germany for a long time tried to tame or let's say

yes, to open the door to putin , maybe i'm wrong in my assessment, for the westerners, for the western institutions, why they believed that the russians and the west could be friends and that russia would never again be there, let's say, to oppose the western powers, and what is better, to have putin next to you, rather than further away from you, the main factors are the name from my point of view and the economic one is not the main one, i can show with numbers that this is how germany benefited from cheap russian energy resources, and these were surplus profits, which, in principle, now the german economy has less, it does not exist in some sectors and lives normally, germany is a very powerful economy in the world, so everyone, there will be some benefits, it was actually unfair competition with some countries, and the germans are really used to such

cheap energy resources, get big profits, but this is only part of business, only part of business is involved in this field , unfortunately, there was political corruption, unfortunately, the agency of the soviet kgb, and then, in the life that remained there, it humiliated, especially the eastern germany, and you don't have to be in an agent, you just have to be, you know, in your youth , which is called, feel your connection, and who knows what happened there at which stages of the political life of the leaders, and therefore these are all the consequences of that soviet era , they signaled, germany breaks with this past gradually, but the fear of nuclear russia, and these are the fears of the germans, they were very serious, psychologically they were very serious.

well, explain to the germans that the ukrainians, in principle, also took berlin, which is called, well, but we refused this heritage, on the contrary, we are trying to move away from this approach of stalin , hitler, what they did to the world, just like the germans, so many factors , but the most important thing is that they understood that the european union should act as more of such an organization, not only the market is large, but in politically, and the germans always took the lead, that is, they always competed with france, well, with insular europe, great britain, for this literature, historically yes, that is, the german nation, they cannot just be somewhere from the sidelines to watch how events develop, they have to be key, so in this in this at this stage they made the right choice, eh absolutely, and what concerns the future, there will be votes there, return back, business as usual,

they will be like that, 100%, and i emphasize once again, they have to clean themselves completely of all this agency, and there are a lot of them there, well, one more moment, i once went to the hospital with the president, where our germans, we thank them for that , treated our wounded, and i was very surprised, and also our entire delegation, that in this hospit... the channels are russian, several russian channels are simply turned on, that is, the informational influence is huge, even the physical presence of russians in berlin... it is felt, well, the number of people, so all this will still weigh on germany, but the situation will gradually change , and they will ultimately, i think, replace markets i am sure of this that everything will go into the negative for the developing market of ukraine and the countries of the european union.

let's talk about how they perceive and what they say about the war, ukraine against russia, or rather, the war between russia and ukraine, in the united states of america, the secretary of defense of the united states of america, loydin recorded a video message from the center of kyiv, let's watch and listen, we don't have this video , but i will repeat what i said, lloyd austin, the united states of america stands with ukraine, we will be with them for a long time, this battle matters for education, the united states of america will always be on the side of democracy as ukrainians continue to show fortitude and fortitude in the face of putin's aggression. we have gathered allied partners to stand up to russia and make progress toward a brighter future because of american leadership and our resolve to do so is stronger than ever. a few days before lloyd's visit to austin in

ukraine, biden wrote a text to washington. post and explained the importance of supporting ukraine for the united states of america, what he said biden, from the experience of two world wars of the last century, we know that when aggression in europe remains unanswered, the crisis does not disappear by itself, it involves america directly, therefore our commitment to ukraine today is an investment in our own security, it prevents a wider conflict tomorrow, we keep american troops out of this war by supporting the brave ukrainians who, for... their freedom and their homeland, we provide them with weapons and economic aid to stop putin's drive for conquest before the conflict will spread further, well, these two statements were made by both biden and lloyd austin, well, with an interval of several days, it seems

that both lloyd austin and joseph biden are saying everything correctly, but there is a feeling that ukrainians have to enter or click on washington and tell them to give us more weapons, give us these weapons, because we need them, give us planes, who in this situation will lloyd austin and joseph biden convince that it is necessary to help ukraine. well, if we talk about the performance, i will give you a visual pictures, there is a protrusion just in that place. where the president of the united states, clinton, spoke in the same, approximately, well, approximately the same place, when he appealed to fight and overcome there, he quoted shevchenko, that is, er, this is a signal, well, to ukrainians, of solidarity, because in

we also heard a lot of such voices, there is a problem in the congress, how will they help us, they will not help us, i read such materials that in the administration of the president, is the office now called, there is a fear of the situation in the usa, because it's key, well, that is it doesn't matter what happens in ukraine, but if there is no help, then it's all a failure, well, it's categorically not true, that's why it's such a signal of solidarity, a signal of the ukrainians, well, the signal is obviously also in moscow, well, mostly yes, not to the americans, but the article in the column of the washington post of the president of the united states, biden, is an appeal specifically to the americans, because he, in principle , does not address such columns so often, or so purposefully and caused, it was the reason that now part of the republican party, really, as far as i'm concerned, let's talk like that frankly, flirted

into political issues against the background of world threats, and joseph biden positions himself as a world leader, international against the background of a group of congressmen who want to catch their fish now purely in the pre-election race, so i will sign under each phrase, regarding the fact that every ukrainian wants there to be not visits, but weapons, then it is always repeated like this with us, then, of course, a package, the duty accompanied just like that, let's say a speech. the head of the pentagon, but you and i understand that now we are all together, the white house, the pentagon, the state department, well, the ukrainians, the ukrainian government, we are fighting to get , after all, a clear vision of funding from the united states for the next fiscal year, well, in their case, from october to october, that is , it is very important for us to

to understand how we will allocate resources, so in principle , i understand your concern, and as a ukrainian , i always have something like this phrase in my head, let's be honest, you can even not come, but better give us something extra there now. well, what can i say, we are in many ways they were convinced at the time, and what western countries are doing now was hard to imagine before, but i think we are missing one point, very important, we need to talk to them now, what will happen after the hot phase of the war, how we we will secure the country from possible attacks, i am very worried about one thing: now our allies, well, we call them allies , although, unfortunately, we do not have a single ally in the world that is not established by international agreements, but

there may be, if we become a member of nato, then they will allies, then there will be direct obligations to come out on our side war, so i hear these words less and less, and more and more i hear giving ukraine the opportunity to defend itself in the future, i am very worried about this, because the vision of ukraine, which can defend itself there every time, mobilizing a million people, is the wrong vision for the country, then there will be no development, the right vision, when there will be collective responsibility and collective defense, and in this regard, i think i hear less of these signals lately from anyone from nato, from the political leadership, therefore, we need to think about what will happen... relatively speaking, in november of next year, we need to think about what will happen to ukraine in the following years, so let's be honest, ukraine will give a lot of forces,

human forces, resources and everything else, we cannot prepare again in 3-4 years for the hot phase of war again, and we, and we must convince our partners, allies, that the only way is collective defense, we will not be able to, but israel has shown, look, eh , please said israel, israel's model, us ally, mnna, that constantly, someone says we need it, someone says we don’t need it, it’s less, that is, an ally , that is, a country, an ally outside of nato, and four agreements with israel that bring them to the level of allies, and weapons depots on the territory, and that’s all. and the lobby is huge in america, and what helped, they climbed up and cut off the heads of the terrorists, because nato already understood this , they are moving from a policy of deterrence to a policy of non-admission, we need a policy

of non-admission and no further waiting for who will attack us, no, collective defense, i i insist on this, and these words, well, you can say, well, this is my subjective opinion, but i hear such words less often from americans, even recently, as for the aid of the united states of america to ukraine, could they give much more, than they give, and is it not due to the fact that the united states of america simply has not yet decided what the defeat of russia in the war with ukraine is, they have long already decided, i can tell you that the first definition took place there, if i i'm not mistaken on march 3, 22, where they did the first, well, the position of, well, the closed meeting, and about which in principle there were rumors in the council,

and then the second already after two or so months after the start of the war, that is, their strategic line does not change, they are aimed at the united states, i say now, you asked about the usa, i am talking about the usa, it means not to give putin and russia, to conquer. ukraine, er, well, there is no mention of territorial boundaries here, but in principle there is an agreement that the complete deoccupation of the country, including crimea, and the second - to prevent the uncontrolled course of events in russia, they will be afraid of access terrorist groups or uncontrolled armed groups to nuclear weapons, they are not even ballistic missiles, because it is much more difficult to take control there, but tactical, and they do not see, frankly, a better situation, well, in the near future, if there will be...

they will the development of events in russia is uncontrollable, so they, they not only do not want the defeat of russia , they do so in their strategies, let's be honest, to prevent this defeat, and this is a big problem, because at the same time to achieve the de-occupation of the territory of ukraine and at the same time, in order to there was no defeat of russia, i believe that this is an impossible task, impossible, and it is a big mistake that they decided that they could balance it with supplies and weapons. this moment is the mistake of last year, when we did not receive the required amount of available weapons, available, no one will convince me, this is all a delusion, not 31 abrams tanks, america can supply, america can easily supply 300 tanks, but they will not be there for various reasons , and they help us de-occupy, but

they don't want to give us, let's say, everything at once. because they also want to influence events, that's all, well, here is a question of trust, here is a question, a lot of different questions, and i, for my part, broke down and think that this is their mistake, but such a controlled escalation or a controlled war can lead to very bad consequences , that the resources that will have to be used will have to be invested many times more, and now we are at the exact point where they realized that they were not provided at the right time in terms of the amount of resources in the military plan, and now they are demanding something completely different level, and this is a problem, let them do it also my own conclusions, but at the same time i tell you that without their support it would be much more difficult for us, well, we all understand, and another statement came from the chancellor of germany olaf scholz, he said that he is ready for new negotiations with by the president of the russian federation, putin, but this will only make sense if putin is ready to act

, in an interview with bild, he said, he should withdraw the troops, however, there is currently no indication that this will happen, putin should not succeed in to use for its purpose force to annex part of a neighboring country. well, that is, as far as i understand, mr. valery, there are still leaders, world leaders , who leave this option, that we are ready to talk about something with putin, but under such and such and such and such conditions. will the period come when they won't talk to him anymore, that is, when these red lines have long been crossed, but still the same scholz says: well, we will talk if they withdraw the troops, although everyone understands, that for putin to withdraw the troops means simply to put a cross there on his political future, although it seems to me that in russia he can announce that the purpose of the special military operation has been fulfilled, they are already denis.

ukraine, and, as usual , drive propaganda through the ears of russian citizens, what do you say about this, is this a field for any conversations, for negotiations , to call him there, to say something to him, is this option still preserved, well, now it will be for a few months , these conversations will generally stop, we can already see, but only for a few... months, then of course they will start with new force, i i really hope that we will stop, or they will stop calling putin, but i would like this name to go somewhere in oblivion, because you said from the political plan, but he is not interested in the political plan, he is the king, the king

, who established himself as the second stalin , who carries the people... of russia there, or the people of russia, or muscovy, i don't know, they, they made a huge mistake, and now, of course, they want, if they had already established themselves in the war, they made their choice, this is the leadership of russia, this regime, war is beneficial to them, and this is a problem for us, because now, there were two ways of development of events, if the russians did not support the war, they would look for a way to... unfold the situation, the russians in their majority supported the war, and partly, some of them went internal such isolation, fear of the regime, revenge of the regime, some left, but the majority of russians supported it, just as the germans supported the fascists in germany, at one time, the majority of russians also supported this criminal regime, russians bear the same shared responsibility.