[000:00:00;00] everything is very simple, people just want to see, at least in words, decisive politicians who propose something, who criticize something , who demand something, and politicians who are both yours and ours, and then today and tomorrow we go, we will not give, well, such politicians, of course, the rating will start to really sink, therefore, if even taken from this domestic political point of view. then decisiveness is a sign of confidence and strength, and if you are not decisive, your political career will quickly end, then even from this point of view, i think that some politicians in berlin we must finally gain this determination and understand that the formula, ukraine does not win and russia does not lose, is a formula for helping the russian aggressor, that it must be

changed. to the formula: ukraine wins, and russia loses, because yes, only in this way can justice be restored. about justice, mr. volodymyr, i also wanted to ask you, because when we talk about what ukraine wants, how ukraine wants it, and whether someone is pushing ukraine towards peace talks. here, the former negotiator with the russian federation of the period, march april. in the 22nd year of david, rahamia begins to tell the details of what happened at these negotiations, i would like to ask you as a person with great diplomatic experience about this, but first, let's listen to what he said, because it seems to me that this is indicative, including for our western partners, because these negotiations that took place, and the composition of the participants in these

negotiations, and what they could do. or could not do, what they could agree on, what they could not agree on, because it doesn't matter, i i think all these statements must have been included in the diplomatic reports, because they give an idea of ​​what kind of negotiations they were, what they talked about there, and most importantly, how one of the main negotiators who was there, how he perceived it , therefore, talk about negotiations with the russian federation on... a full-scale invasion, let's listen, they were ready for words much more than words, we understood that each side has its own game, well, that is, this whole game directly depended on successes or defeats at the front, well, that is, in words they said that everyone should go back to where they were, you are there

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, accept, and that's it. and then in the details that we will wait until you accept everything, and about how johnson influenced the results of these negotiations, or rather , the finalization, the fragment is also very interesting, uh, they really, really until almost the last, hoped that they would pressure us to sign such an agreement, and for us to accept neutrality, this was the biggest thing for them, so that he, they were too ready to end the war, if we... take neutrality like finland once there and give the commitment that we will not join nato, only one point , well, in fact, this was the key point, everything else is there, cosmetic political seasonings, such as pro-nazification, the russian-speaking population and blah blah blah, why ukraine did not agree to this point , well, first of all, in order to agree to this point, it is necessary to change the constitution

, in our country the path to nato is written in the constitution, secondly, there is no trust and there was not and there is no russians that they will do it, it was only possible to do, if there are security guarantees, well , we couldn't sign something, leave, we all would they exhaled there, and then they would have come in more prepared, because they came in really unprepared, even for such resistance, so we could only work on it when there is a hundred percent certainty that it will not happen again, and there is no such certainty, moreover, when we returned from istanbul, boris johnson came to kyiv and said that we will not sign anything with them at all, and let's just fight, mr. volodymyr, then johnson came and said that we will not sign anything, we will fight, well you

you know, mr. serhiy, i am looking into this, and to be honest, as a professional diplomat , i am holding my head, because such negotiations, well , they start with what, they start with the preparation of the directives of the delegation, which, er, leads these negotiations, and these negotiations, taking into account their importance and, well, the situation that was , they cannot be written on the knee, they must be approved by the president of ukraine, from what we heard, at that time, there were no directives, sent like this in order to, either, to wash their eyes or to sign a capitulation, in fact, what can be understood from the situation we are talking about and so on, i don’t know if it was possible to shake hands

with these bandits from the right side that we are seeing now, under these circumstances, i would not , to be honest, that’s why i don’t know what boris johnson was talking about there, but in my opinion, under boris johnson, on the second day, or actually on the first day, the russian invasion was answered by the ukrainians, who went to the checkpoints, who started working, who started to destroy the russian occupiers, on the approaches already in front of kyiv, so you know, with such diplomacy, ala, arahamiya, i don't know by what miracle, we at all, avoided what was imposed, because in order to conduct negotiations, you just need to understand what negotiations are, you need to understand

how they are conducted, why they are conducted , what negotiation tactics, what mechanisms, what rules, what experience, and so on, and so on, well, this is what, unfortunately, can be achieved, or fortunately, only through years and years... of participation in these affairs, well, there, among the participants there was only one diplomat, who sat quietly and remained silent, because he was probably not allowed to speak, that's the whole diplomat, that's why you couldn't expect anything, anything positive from all those rounds, and the result, thank god, maybe even after the words of boris jones. and not only he began to turn to our side, because to imagine what would have happened if he had signed such papers, we would not know today, i think , what independent ukraine is.

well, by the way, about this document, which, as i spoke a little earlier, a few months ago, putin showed somewhere in front of the press that there is a list of something that was agreed upon, about this. i also mentioned arahamia, i suggest watching this fragment. putin showed the document, and according to the result of the belarusian negotiations, to the african delegation, he demonstrated it, where, as he claims, the draft of the peace agreement with ukraine is written, and on eh, this document was apparently canonized in istanbul, this document was called, the agreement on permanent neutrality of ukraine and security guarantees. putin said what was there. 18 articles, and as he said, i will quote, everything is written from combat equipment to the personnel of the armed forces of ukraine, he said that there is a signature

the head of the delegation, that's what putin claimed, why didn't he make this document public, you paid attention, what do you think , why, if he had the document, he would make it public, but again, mr. volodymyr, is it always the case , what the delegations of different countries are talking about, well, this delegation had a corresponding mandate, of course, if they were negotiating with the russians, but are these always working documents, they get into the public sphere, well, why am i asking, because to the big invasion, to the great war, many different variations of regarding the fact that the ukrainian side is conducting negotiations with the russians, there are some certain agreements, will there be... so that after a certain time we will witness the fact that someone will start to get some documents from the archives in moscow and show them in order to is the wedge not between the civilian and military leadership to be killed, but between the civilian

leadership and the citizens of ukraine? well, mr. serhiu, regarding the directive, they can never be public, this must also be understood, if a country publicly declares its positions, it will never... achieve no results in the negotiations, that's obvious , they can't be public, but for some reason i'm convinced that there were no written documents, well, this is my personal impression, i just remember those...' dramatic times, one could say that we have there was no time for these formalities, go and see, this could also be the case, er, as for the documents, er, putin waved this, a piece of paper, i don’t know, what, who visaged him there for a reason from our side, did he have a visa at all, but the fact that they came with

an ultimatum, where everything was spelled out, then here and you don't need to go to borozhka, this is the traditional way of working of moscow's so-called diplomacy, this is blackmail, otherwise it will be worse, either take it or watch, tomorrow there will be not one offensive, but five offensives, this is the traditional formula of the work of this so-called diplomacy, therefore, the document definitely existed, another question is how it... was considered and what was already said from our side, you see, we do not know this, and i do not know if we will ever find out, but i think that after all, some sketches of it whatever it was about, somewhere in the archives anyway, there must be, because, well, no less, in the diplomatic service there is no such thing that after the end of any conversation or event there is nothing left. from what

was said, and what the parties actually agreed or did not agree on, so i think that someday we will find out about this. mr. volodymyr, over the last week we have seen various publications appearing in the western press, maybe even for several weeks , that ukraine is being pushed towards peace talks, last week bild published... a text written by julian repke, this military columnist, he wrote an article about that, as it were, the united states of america and germany are encouraging zelensky to negotiate with putin, but the government of the federal republic of germany has officially declared that this is not the case, well, at least in an interview , representatives of the government of germany have said that from the very beginning of the russian aggressive war, and the united states of america and germany.

supporters of the cessation of russian aggression and the achievement of a just peace in ukraine , and this cannot be an imposed peace, but eh, well, you know the german press very well and obviously, i do not know whether in this situation it can be considered bild is the publication that publishes some kind of insider correct information, it is still not spiegel, and one must understand the specifics of this publication, but whether. can such negotiations be conducted at all, behind the political scenes of negotiations between ukraine and the russian federation? you are right, mr. serhiy, bilt is not an authoritative publication so to speak, it is, well, let's say, a yellow-popular publication, but the truth is that it is read by the vast majority of the population of west germany,

because there are big headlines and you know, simple explanations of complex things, well, what is actually needed by an average citizen who does not understand subtleties and does not understand why to get involved in them, er, so it could be, well, a certain pr of the same mr. robka, although eh , well, he is really considered one of those who, sometimes, has access to non-public... information, well, you see, both germany and the states denied such moments, but right away, everything is manifested in practice that means not to let ukraine defeat russia, it means not to give it the necessary weapons in quantity and at the right time, and then what to do after that , after that you have to make a decision... either, freeze this

front line, which is the current situation, well, or, well, use some kind of force, produce your own weapons and this with one's own weapons, trying to defeat an enemy who is superior both in numbers and in armaments, and so on, and so on, which is quite a difficult, if not impossible task, therefore. here, you can not conduct negotiations, but you can have a quiet agreement, and in this way manage the situation at the front, which is also complete. realistically, at the same time, i still think that for both germany and the united states of america, the victory, the actual victory of russia in the form of freezing the conflict, is their huge, personal defeat,

scholz's personal defeat and biden's personal defeat, well if biden wants to be re-elected for a second term, then go to the elections with a clear. well, it means simply, as they say, to lose this race to any republican , not even trump, if he wants to win, then he must, he must demonstrate again this determination, this leadership, which will show that he makes difficult, difficult, but correct decisions, so i don't think that we need to go too much, so to speak, into the details of the publication, in the bilt. some may be true, some may not be true, we just have to watch what happens in terms of military aid if by the middle of december the us, i mean the senate and the congress will make these decisions, and i sincerely hope that they will make these

decisions , then this will mean that the usa is on the side of ukraine as the winning country, because 60 billion dollars is a fantastic amount. and you mentioned today the size of the military budget of ukraine and russia, this is a fantastic amount for our victory, so if it is approved, it will mean that we will receive probably everything that we will need not only to deter the enemy, but also , to drive him away from ukrainian land, and this will be a real answer to the question, are there any negotiations behind our backs, or are there none? and today in brussels from...' a ministerial meeting, or a meeting of foreign ministers affairs, the countries of the alliance, after its completion , jen stoltenberg, the secretary general of nato, said that nato will not stop supporting ukraine in its repulsion of russian aggression, and the latest statements in support of the ukrainian people are a clear signal to

russia about this, let's listen to what he said stoltenberg. it is our duty to provide ukraine with the weapons it has. because it will be a tragedy for ukrainians if president putin wins, but it will also be a danger for us, because then the message to all authoritarian leaders, not only in moscow, but and it will be like that in beijing. when they violate international law, when they invade another country, when they use force, they get what they want. so it is about the whole idea of ​​a rules-based international order that respects territorial borders. mr. volodya. you talked about the fact that the west still cannot clearly articulate that they want the defeat, the total defeat, of russia, but they are talking about the victory of ukraine, and this is probably the biggest problem, because talking about the fact that we support ukraine and ukraine should

to win is, well, no, not equivalent to the fact that we will do everything to make russia lose. moreover, she totally lost, that’s right, i understand, that ’s the real and main, main problem, they don’t want the defeat of russia, they don’t want this, monster, monster, which is the biggest threat to all civilized of the world, has finally disappeared from the face of the earth, and they do not want to understand, and this is the saddest and most terrible thing for me, they do not want to understand... that the disappearance of russia from the political map of the world in its current form - this is a colossal plus for their national security, for their economy, for the fight against warming, because russia is creating terrible things in this regard, in order to

jointly develop the arctic, in order for the countries that are formed on its territory, were peaceful, were...' demilitarized, were such that you can do normal business with, as good neighbors, instead, they think that it is bad, that it is better to have, putin's pro-fascist regime, which threatens everyone, including themselves, than to act in advance, that is the huge mental problem of our western partners, unfortunately, they are not leaders. they go, they follow the events, they don't want to create the events themselves, they only react , this is a reactive policy, which always leads to the fact that you lose in the end, well, unfortunately, this is the mental problem of our current western

partners, no want to closely understand objective and obvious things, well, mr. volodymyr, two statements from the united states of america, the american congress can allocate additional aid to ukraine until the end this year, during a trip to the state of florida, said the speaker of the lower... chamber of the highest legislative body of the united states of america, the house of representatives, mike johnson. let's listen to johnson. ukraine is another priority. of course, we cannot allow vladimir putin to march through europe, and we perfectly understand the need to provide assistance to ukraine. but we have repeatedly said that in order to allocate additional support to ukraine, which most members of congress consider important, we must also change our own border policy. well, the coordinator of strategic communications of the national security council of the white house, john kirby, said that

additional funding for ukraine and israel , with the request of which president joe biden appealed to congress, is absolutely necessary, let's listen to kirby. i would like to remind members of congress when they return to work that the numbers in this supplemental request came from our ukraine. and israeli partners, we didn't just pull these numbers out of thin air, they are exactly what our partners have told us they need in the next months. this is the impression, mr. volodymyr, that the americans are convincing themselves, that is, one part, the congress and part of the white house, are convincing each other who they are convincing and whether in this situation... aid to ukraine does not become a hostage of the presidential campaign, which has already begun

, i understand in the united states of america, and in this situation, are we not going to be held hostage for the 24th year by what's going to happen in the election campaign, you know, if this decision that we're talking about now is going to be passed over the course of these two weeks, the next, then certainly then...will be used to a lesser extent as some, you know, element of the campaign, but if that doesn't happen, then obviously we're going to be playing out between the republicans and the democrats, and everybody's going to try in this plan, to receive some political dividends, but for some reason it seems to me that , despite everything, johnson's statement, which you just mentioned, it shows that, after all

, the majority of sober-minded politicians on the capitalist hill understand, what not helping ukraine is a loss for america itself, and they understand very well that by helping ukraine in the form of far superior modern american weapons, they are helping their own military industry to increase its efforts. to create jobs and earn a lot of money, and not only in america, but also around the world, because the world sees what this, sorry, junk of soviet, soviet-russian production is capable of and how it cracks under the blows of far from new american technology , so it is an even bigger entry into the world market scale, so i think the decision will be positive, but it is not necessary , we need to convince everyone and everything, both in america and in

europe, that the defeat of russia is their victory, and that is when we will have what we need , otherwise it will be permanent things, you know, from the formula, today there, tomorrow here, mr. volodymyr, along with that, today there was information that the office of the president of ukraine is sending special forces... to the united states of america, as if they are going there deputies, government officials, to build relations with republicans, well, at least so, he insists the nba edition, referring to its sources in the office of the president of ukraine, again about diplomacy, who conducts it, how it is conducted, how professionally we communicate with the americans now in order to protect our interests, and whether we do it at that level, and or... in that way? well, you know, it's the right move, i'll tell you honestly that it's a good idea, it's been talked about many times before,

and it seems that now it's finally starting to be implemented. what does this mean, it means that two or three ukrainian politicians from by two or three representatives of some public organizations, and conduct a substantive, understandable, simple conversation with those who govern this state, with the same representatives of the republican party, the only thing that surprises me in this situation is that how some... says: i can’t say anything here 100 percent, that only representatives of one faction will be sent, because they say, well, those who know english, well , you know, there are many deputies in the parliament who know english well, but not only from of the same faction, so i think if in this case, we want to work not in the interests of the party, but in the interests of the state, this

should apply to everyone, to all those who want and can do this sp the conversation should be about the general public, a single ukrainian general public, and not about sharing your own foreign people, absolutely, and if by the way, they will only recommend their own, this will be another sign that everything is not in order with our democracy, because, well, no, they do, especially when it comes to the period wars, when there are no parties, when there are no factions, there are those who are either on the side of their country or against it, i think that it is impossible to consider the situation differently. thank you, mr. volodymyr, for the conversation, it was volodymyr

ogrysko, politician, diplomat, former minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, friends, we are working. live on the channel as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us on youtube and facebook live, please like this video and also subscribe to our pages on these social networks, and in addition , take part in our survey, just a few minutes remain before the end of the first part of our program, so we ask you about the following: diplomatic relations with belarus are important to ukraine. yes, no, it's just on youtube, two options, or leave a comment below this video, what do you think about it, and for those of you who are watching us now on tv, pick up your phone and vote if you think that diplomatic relations with belarus are needed, 0800-21381, no, 0800 211-382. we already have

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the full results of this vote at the end of the second part. what the armed forces of ukraine achieved during the offensive in the summer and autumn is what we are talking about on bbc news ukraine live from london, i'm yevgenia shedlovska. expectations from the counteroffensive of the armed forces were great, we are summing up in the winter, when, according to the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, valery zaluzhny, the war with russia is moving into a new phase, turns into a positional war of attrition. at the beginning of november , the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, general valery zaluzhnyi, announced what had