in this part of our conversation about the ukraine nato council, this meeting was held at the level of foreign ministers, literally on november 29, some call it an absolutely historic event, well, i don't know, let's talk with you now , it must be said that this is the first such meeting, well, today is the first time we will sit with the ministers on an equal basis, said the head of the ministry of foreign affairs of ukraine dmytro kuleba, noting the difference between the former ukraine nato commission and the new council. in the council, ukraine has the same rights as members of the north atlantic alliance and the same opportunities for consultations. short the summary that i made in particular from this event, well, first of all, the support of ukraine on the way to nato, that is, the program of reforms described for us, for our full operational interoperability with nato, is being finalized, being prepared, and it seems that the talk is currently even going without about the absence of any political requirements for us.

when we talk about the north atlantic alliance, it is important not to forget that it is a political and military alliance, in this version it is a union, and of course, all representatives of our countries partners agreed to continue to help our country as much as possible, there were several important statements about quite significant and ample financial assistance to us, in particular from germany, from the netherlands, and this is only what i remember now from memory, i promise... not to give everyone to get tired of ukraine and not get tired ourselves, i don't know how far our colleagues will be able to do it, but, mr. vitaly, the council, the commission, let's talk about it with pavel klimkin, the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2014, 2019, yes, you are already with us on the mr. pavle, congratulations, but not yet, well in any case, i hope that he will appear now, and we will talk about it in any case, that the commission is the commission,

the integration is the integration, the commission should be only the first step to the integration, i will tell you honestly, and any commissions that are created, they do not replace security guarantees, this is an interesting form, when ukraine appeals to nato member countries, when it does everything possible to be heard, it can convene such a meeting. but there are no obligations of nato members to ukraine, and that's what we have to think about when we carry out such obligations meetings, of course, it must be said that we did not really want them, remember that before the attack of ukraine, not russia on ukraine, the majority of our citizens were generally opposed to ukrainian accession to nato, and , by the way, many of them believed that henry kessenger , that this will lead to an attack by russia, well, ukraine did not join nato and waited for the attack, so to speak, all two in one, but i remember 1990, the year when ukraine signed this

act, ugh, nato of ukraine, mr. pavle, do you remember 1997, pavlo klimkin already from by us, we welcome you, signing, hello, friends, congratulations ms. khrystyna, ms. vitaly, of course, of course i remember, very well, they were in madrid, i wasn't in madrid, but, well, your memory is almost historical. so i saw this signing of this fundamental act ukraine nato. it can be said that we have come a long way over the years, or can we still say that we have made progress, but we are stuck in the door? it is possible, i was not enthusiastic in 1997, i think you are too, and not because of what was signed, but because of what was signed with russia. basically trade then

was about the expansion of nato, then the big seven joined it, and its actual expansion to the big eight, and this attempt to build such a mosaic, it ended very badly, but the fact that we made a quantum leap is 100%, although we also have to understand , that the war, and the first stage, the second brought us to where we are, that is, this movement was not given to us, not just like that, and we have it, we have to understand it, just as we have to understand that nato, i'm not saying the whole nato, this nato sometimes sounds like a collective event, but that's it no less, the essence of the event, had more than great doubts about how and where to move forward with us, and only with us, yes,

please tell me, mr. pavle, but after all , the creation of the ukraine-nato council, and the meeting at the level of foreign ministers, i am sure. that you analyzed this important event that happened on november 29, can we say that we have any practical gains as a result of these steps? well, council is a good story, it does not mean that we now have the same status, the fact that we are at the same table, we can speak differently, that is gives us opportunities, after all, all decisions in nato are key, they are political, and if they are political, then this is a decision at the level of heads of state and government, and this is exactly the kind of council meeting that has already taken place, when foreign ministers meet, they deal with - well, i would use this word to refine those political

decisions that are made by the leadership of states and governments, and this is actually a meeting... it gave, first of all, an understanding of where we are going in terms of interoperability , where we are going in order to to advance, well in fact, in the area where we are already making progress, i.e. there has been systematicity and a certain predictability, i.e. yes, this is a step forward, if you want, even several steps forward, please tell me, in principle, if we talk about the prospects of washington, the summit , what can we really achieve, what should we strive for? uh, i don't want to disappoint anyone, but i'm rather skeptical, as i read the mood today in many nato capitals, about the next jump during

the washington summit, but so am i quite optimistic about, i just think that it will happen after the washington summit, this summit will actually happen right before the presidential elections in the states, and in my opinion, it has its pros and cons, but the cons are a little more, in the sense that talking about additional commitments to americans during the campaign is always a story they try to avoid. so i think that the decision, that is, the decision to start the accession procedure will not be made in washington, but in saying that, it does not mean that we have put the front paws, as they say, and the rear ones, and

stop this work, and focus on some perspective, since this will then mean that both the drive and the dyna. from this process may disappear to a certain extent, therefore, on the contrary, this drive needs to be promoted, and we have another topic, a topic that was thrown to us today, yesterday, it is about the activity of all representatives of the ukrainian political community, the involvement of all possible connections on international sites, sites for the benefit of our country, and why this one potential... is always used, petro poroshenko was actually not released abroad, the security service of ukraine refers to the information that he would have become, well , almost a tool in the hands of the russian propaganda machine, if he had met with

viktor orban, and now it's used by all the propaganda machines that only we can see what's going on at all, you can explain, no, i can't, i actually take it... this story is on the one hand funny enough, and on the other hand, serious and somewhat maristic, because from one on the other hand, a meeting with orbán in today's game played by the prime minister of hungary will not bring anything, neither positive nor negative, and i don't know how to use it in the preparation process. to the yesiv summit, and i don't know how russia is going to use it, well, maybe there is some super-secret information that is insidiously planned there, but i see orbán's game as his sense of the moment,

that he starts to bargain long, he understands that all the money will not be unlocked for him immediately, he has the option of blocking... us put sticks in the wheels not only at the beginning of preliminary negotiations, but in fact at each section, and there are only officially 35 of them , i.e.... entry into the exit section, you already have at least 70 points, in fact, if you count them, who knows ievsk mechanics more a hundred and you and i haven't started talking about nato yet, but orbán's game is also about money, it's also about candidacies in brussels, it's also about pulling towards a possible republican administration, i understand that he is there from moscow, gas prices, which are actually benefits for hungary. blackmail and there are others factors, that is, he is playing his strategic

game, and i believe that our position today is not that we can squeeze orban somewhere, this is not a strong position, so let our friends and allies decide the issue with orban, that they actually and they do, just that the president of the european council was there, i know... what others said with orban, he too, excuse me, please excuse me, and charles michel, i am now actually quoting the statement of european solidarity, he is also a tool in this case in the hands of the russian special services, because he met with orban, and the president zelenskyi, who invites him to ukraine, no, i think that here it is necessary to ask the fsb and the russians separately, well, of course, this is sarcasm, but the logic, the logic is very simple, in fact, i... do not see in this story any fundamental content and i generally believe

that now we have to play like in jazz, one melody, but with the possibility of improvisation, we have a difficult situation and a difficult situation due to the fact that a campaign is starting in the states, which will be unpredictable, we have events in israel around gas, we will have our own surge around the presidential elections in taiwan in january, and now we need to use really everything possible in terms of being understood, so that we convey not only emotions, but also content, what we want and how we want, but again- after all, i don’t understand this story at all, if someone knew that poroshenko would meet with orban, then the question is why he couldn’t be told that he was actually going to be used, that is, i ’m saying, as far as i’m concerned, the story is 50% ridiculous, no do we know if he was going to meet with orbán, by the way, he actually has

i think there is something to talk about with tusk , for example, which is why i say that the story is actually not subject to any allergic interpretation, please tell me, but if we talk in the context of what is now basically happening with western unity, we we are waiting for the summit of the european union, to what extent do we receive help there , to what extent will we be invited to negotiations , with such a position of hungary, i believe that orban will not block, orban will play as history , orban will extract from us and from everyone others, everything he can do is on prospects, and

when you look at what he says in hungarian, and my hungarian acquaintances translated it for me, he deliberately leaves space, so 50 billion, as far as i am concerned, orbán will try to play in that this money is confirmed every year, and such a chance, unfortunately... there is, and at the same time i believe that a political decision on the start of pre-accession negotiations will be made when they physically begin there, that's another story, but it's also means we just talked about the need to work together, what we need to prepare a position for these negotiations, which is a broad discussion with business and with civil society, actually on one and i remember very well the negotiations on the association, but the preliminary negotiations are

the association multiplied, well, at least by 20, if in fact not more, and we need not hundreds, but thousands of people who understand european law and many issues, and for these people to interact with those who will actually experience the preliminary process, i.e. business and society. this is actually a crazy story and you need to prepare for it, taking care of the time they say, not even yesterday, the day before yesterday, well, one more thing. the question of how much the world community is now actively reacting to what is happening in our military-political leadership, to the actual situation where we already have a division, political and military leadership, and in fact mock each other, well, this is also what we we know from the media, we know this from the media, and we know this from social networks, one deputy, one

deputy, a person with a mandate, in fact, but articles from fairly authoritative publications... such as the economist, for example, and the fact that she was reading the street journal just a few days ago actually shows that the world is also reflecting on these stories, how dangerous they are, well , of course, stories are important, in my opinion, these articles are read more in ukraine, and those people , which are directly related to ukraine, they are also considered, so we know the authors of all the articles. if you mean the economist or the woll street journal, as far as i understand, markus volker is a person who spent a couple of weeks there in ukraine, traveled a lot, a lot spoke, that is, what he writes, writes, it is not there from the ceiling or from some conversations, it is this feeling, and the fact that the story is about discussions

inside, it goes back. you see that, well, the last story that we just discussed is just not the flip side of the coin, it's kind of a mirror story as well, and that story is certainly dangerous because at some point the west will look the other way at how we are ready to form a strategy and agree with... a strategy with them, since internal unity is what makes us, in a unique way, a unique kind, distinguished all these months, if we lose it, then the discussions in the west that are happening, they can start, of course, from a different path and not only in the media, in

principle, if we talk about what we should do to change this impression. which is created for the western audience, the question is that we do not react to it in any way, that is , the public reacts to it, which is so nervous, the government and the military leadership, they are silent, as if it is not about them, i think the answer is very simple, and we all know her, that means joint visits, joint opinion and joint activities here in ukraine. this is what clearly and in fact for all of us and for our friends demonstrates unity, unity of thought, unity of strategy, unity of plan, this is actually very important, it is very simple, but in fact it always works, mr. pavle, but i wanted to ask you about this session of the osce, this

is really an absolutely incredible story, that the north macedonians agreed, obviously not by themselves, to miss the plane of serhiy lavov, so that serhiy lavrov was a participant in this session, he spoke there, in fact, he scolded everyone at this session, whom he could and who he could not, why does the west hold on to all these old forms of cooperation with russia, when they do not work anyway, explain, and the answer is very simple, they want to keep the opportunity, although certain indirect control, for elections for human rights for freedom of speech and within the framework of the osce, there are powers for this that work, how should i say so censoriously, far from ideal, but nevertheless work, this is again the marismism of the situation with the osce is that with russia it no longer makes sense, and it also makes no

sense without russia, since in 1975 the osce was created precisely as a platform. for the conversation between the western and eastern pro-soviet bloc at the time, i believe that at some point it is necessary to get together and honestly say that obsie must be killed, well, after all, the west gave birth, as taras brulba said, i gave birth to you, i gave birth to you and to kill, and then create new sites, within the framework of the osce there were many regimes of control over weapons, compliance with trust. russia killed all these regimes, that is, today it is a real added one the cost for our friends is indirect, let's call it, control. on the key freedoms, in my opinion, in general, the whole story that happened in north macedonia, it is very bad for us and very

bad for the west, there was less solidarity than i would have liked and than you would have liked, when someone there doesn't go, someone goes, and someone, on the contrary, goes and says, it's even good that lavrov came there, we 'll talk here, for example, i... the austrian minister of foreign affairs, and in the kremlin, such a meeting is perceived as a mess inside event and the possibility of reducing the level of solidarity, i believe that everything should have been done before the meeting to agree on a single line of behavior and single signals. the fact that it did not succeed is, unfortunately, a gift to the kremlin. thank you, pavlo klimkin, the diplomat of the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine was on the air in 2014, we will now wait for our next interlocutor, he will be the extraordinary plenipotentiary ambassador of ukraine to israel, mr. yevhen kornechuk, this is the 57th day of the war, and by

the way, we they spoke with mr. yevhen in the first the day of the war, and i must say that after these 57 days, the only thing that can be said is that few people at all imagined that the war in the middle east would continue for so long, and there would be no end to it, this is approximately like the russian-ukrainian war, all the wars, i have talked about it many times in this studio and in other studios, all the wars in the middle east, they took place literally for several weeks, and we always said, well, why compare israel with ukraine, israel is a country that conducts short wars, long wars, they are, first of all, give the opportunity to lead israel in connection with the mobilization potential, it is a small country, the territory of the kyiv region in fact, secondly, it is a huge... blow to the israeli economy, by the way, now the israeli economy is creating, experiencing crazy losses, billions, and again after all, the israeli economy is not ukrainian, it is high technology, it is technology parks, it all

stops, it stops also because a huge number of people who are employed there, they are just reservists, they are in the army, there is no way to somehow separate it all, again, due to the not very large number, the population, and with that , everyone sees it, everyone says, probably in a couple of weeks, it ends, i heard it from israeli military experts, literally there for 20-30 days, and there is no real prospect, and why does it not end in your opinion, because israel has made a decision for itself to eradicate hamas as much as possible this time, or hamas has prepared too well, by the way, how do you feel about the idea, in my opinion, politically, no new york times, which believes that israel is in favor knew about the plans of hamas a year before the attack, that's what the media write. i don't really believe that, to be honest, but i think the bottom line is exactly what you're saying is that israel feels that it can't really

do anything, uh, short of destroying hamas. as such an organization, because if it stops, and hamas continues to act, then what will happen to the position of the israeli government and security forces, yevhen kalinchuk, the initial plenipotentiary ambassador of ukraine in israel, congratulations mr. yevhen. good evening, by the way, mr. yevgeny, i want to ask you a question christening, why israel is forced to wage such a long war, although it is absolutely not in the traditions of the very ideas about the security of the jewish state, is a difficult question, and everything depends on the tactics and those, what the israeli side wants to achieve, based on the current situation, it is clear that to completely destroy the gas sector will mean huge losses of the civilian population, and this is unacceptable, you see how many world and european leaders

oppose this, israel cannot ignore this, therefore, accordingly, it is necessary tactics, which will correspond to all the norms of humanitarian law, provide for a slow offensive that will allow to avoid the deaths of the civilian population as much as possible, that is why the operation is stretched, today in the local press new numbers or new dates were announced, which indicate that the sooner after all, the active phase of the operation will end in the next three months, but the whole operation can last up to a year, and how will israel be in your opinion. as a state, to function at such a time, well, it is difficult to say, since we know the figures of financial losses,

the war is over. government about 300 million dollars every day and the decline of the economy is quite substantial. today i read statistics that about 30% of businesses have closed or are closing, and it is very difficult, but i think that when it comes to the end of the active phase and the transition to the passive phase, accordingly, probably the budget expenditures will be... a decrease , and these are not only expenses for defense, directly for the tsahal, for example, and for the special service, these are also expenses related to the fact that a huge number of the population has been resettled both from the north and from the south, and live in hotels for state account, on full maintenance, i was in the north today, in the keener lake area, all the hotels are filled with refugees from the north and from the south, and in fact the tourist

cluster is also not working. therefore, these are all costs that will definitely have an impact on the israeli economy, which is why the corresponding assistance from the united states is as important for israel as it is for ukraine. let us simply remind you that joseph biden is turning to congress for 100 billion, 60 and a half of which should go to ukraine, for its support, and of course, this package also includes aid to israel in its opposed to the terrorist hamas. it is less, however, on the 57th day of the war, mr. yevgeny, there are certain successes, because when it comes to the release of hostages, we are talking about, well , in fact, an exchange, this can already be called a certain progress, hamas, unfortunately, does not comply, rules and assumed, in particular obligations, and breaks the ceasefire, the tsahal resumes hostilities in gas, well, this is what the columns of world publications were actually filled with, this you.

can we talk about another stage of the war, or are we currently observing the systematic implementation of the plans set for at the very beginning of israel's tasks? well, look, these wars are very different, which the americans, of course, put us in the same row as the war in israel, the war in ukraine, rather it is a huge, very dramatic terrorist act, for which israel was not prepared, which took the lives of more than 1,400 people , but we made comparative graphics, as an embassy and covered in the local press, 1,400 of our citizens died only in buchy bordianka in the first months of the war, that is, in the suburbs of kyiv, in fact, the situation is really in my memory

was already similar, and we observed a massive military operation in the gas sector 2.5 years ago, before the extraordinary elections, in fact, when netanyahu lost power for a whole year, when an alternative government was elected, but, well, everything really succeeded last week, in the seven days of the truce , 110 israelis were exchanged for 240 palestinians who did not participate in hostilities, as a rule, these are civilian women and teenagers, but today there was an attempt to extend this truce and continue the exchange in katari, which unfortunately the afternoon ended with nothing, israel withdrew its delegation from the negotiations, and how events will develop further, it is very difficult to say, but the israel defense forces continues massively...

the operation, you know that in the gas sector it is divided in two, and in the north separately, and in the south there is a block-by-block operation of clearing, and it is being done very slowly, precisely because in order to avoid civilian casualties, today the news agencies reported that rockets were found among the humanitarian aid of russian production, this information is currently being verified, but it is absolutely certain that without further verification by the israelis of the humanitarian aid that is delivered through egypt to the gas sector, apparently, in the future, the humanitarian aid will simply not be delivered, and today the exchange began again, not an exchange, i'm sorry, but the number of foreigners entering the gas sector is quite large today