why do people like putin always get in the way, so that you have to return somewhere at 13 and there, feel yourself already a citizen of ukraine. oleksiy kucherenko, people's deputy of ukraine, first deputy chairman of the committee on energy and housing and communal services of the verkhovna rada of ukraine, you can already see him, mr. oleksiy, thank you for finding time for us on sunday. thank you mr. mykola for the invitation, i congratulate you and all the viewers. well, so, the first question, actually. i said it, and what is to come, it will be like last year, it will be worse, than last year, it will be better than last year, i mean absolutely dry moments, i will convince you that it will be better, because we are already used to it, we already understand how it will be, you are ready for challenges, but if you take dry, what is waiting, by the way, you are absolutely right, here , first of all, you need to mentally, so to speak , understand that we are already... not the ukrainians

we were a year ago, that's right, we are already, well, sorry, no on barbecues, but we in real life, we understand that the country is at war, we understand what the enemy is capable of, we understand that he is not simple, this enemy, we understand that he, unfortunately, excuse me, will launch both missiles and drones, and we are now seeing these attacks, but we state every day that the percentage of downed shaheds is very good, yes, sometimes there's 100%, sometimes 95-90, and the missiles are shot down very successfully, our air defense forces, and it's definitely, everyone now understands that the air defense forces and the armed forces are our, well, the key factor of energy security, it's 90%, it 90% of what we depend on, so i simply ask everyone to pray, pray for our armed forces for... air defense, and

for all the saints who protect ukraine, will there be inconveniences, well, probably there will be, because sometimes missiles, well, break through, we understand that, and depending on this, well , of course, we should expect and restrictions and emergency situations, it's hard to predict what the energy industry has done, they've done a lot, they've prepared, unfortunately there are certainly complaints. and here not so much to ordinary energy workers, to company managers, but definitely to the state sector, which carries out management, that is, problems in unfortunately, energy companies are accumulating, they are not so much technical and technological now, although they are there, because you understand, when winter just started, the state company ukrenergo is already scaring them with restrictions, and a shortage, a shortage of electricity, this is not a regular situation, we did not agree , excuse me, although it is clear that

the zaporizhzhia nuclear plant fell off the balance sheet, and this was a very powerful reserve, but nevertheless, there is not enough capacity, on the other hand, import is possible, and it will close this potential hole in the balance sheet for us, which may not be enough, the only thing i pray for is that our politicians and our, well, so-called diplomats do not lead to a dead end in relations with our neighbors, because you understand perfectly well that one way or another, we all understand, yes, that we are there we are at war in the east, yes, but we have neighboring countries with whom, well, we simply have no right to spoil relations, because they are all members of the european union without exception, they share borders with us, including technical and technological ones, they have energy capacities and capabilities.

you understand, and this is how it should work, c independence from what is happening there in the political sense, well, here so far it's fut-fu, i 'm banging on the table like this, all obligations are fulfilled and we receive emergency support when we need it, sometimes we have a surplus, then we export electricity, this is also very good, because these are additional funds for our energy company, so the situation is more or less full-time, but what worries me the most is the great volume... which accumulates in this energy and gas market, people do not feel it now, because for them these debts are multidimensional, it's such an abstraction, but i'm like oh as an adult, experienced person, an economist, well, any analyst and you, mr. mykola, understand that no one forgives debts to anyone, sooner or later something has to happen regarding these debts, and the amount of debts is simply colossal, which is a direct evidence that these so-called gas markets and the market, the markets are the electricity market. they do not work,

in fact they do not work in ukraine today, and it is necessary to recognize this and somehow , well, adapt, and look, mr. oleksiy, but it is a specified point, maybe you know, maybe not, because i, i don’t know who about it knows, except the prime minister, maybe the deputy prime minister for energy, and with hungary we have a lot of difficult problems, but on the other hand, hungary has, i don't know if it has a surplus of energy, but they, they with russia have , they have a nuclear power plant, they have one, they have a relationship with a gas plant, yes they do, but if you come to the market, which is not available in ukraine, and call hungary and say: mr. orban, sell us a little bit of energy at the world price, we not about the hungarian language, we are now talking about money for energy, what orban says, fortunately, the only

energy system in europe, yes, nsoo, trey, is single energy, it is built. so that there is no need to ask orbán for anything, thank god , you understand, these energy matters are beyond his authority, and therefore there is no need to ask him for anything, it acts on the basis of international european protocols on emergency support, emergency assistance and so on and so on so similar, this is the strength of this european union, which we are trying so hard to get into, when the role of this leading party and this party, yes, even the orbans, and ours, including certain such leaders who want to be so well powerful not above figures of an extraordinary scale, it will be leveled, that is, we undertake to live according to

european protocols, according to european directives, and in this there is, by the way, a very, very good situation, well, to a certain extent, saving for us, it's another matter, what then... should all ukrainians finally understand that the european union is not just gingerbread, yes, it is a serious obligation, it is also the cost of market electricity, it is also the cost of market gas, and then definitely market salaries, i am i understand that people immediately want market salaries and pensions, we will move towards this, but not very quickly, i will disappoint everyone now, you say, and then market salaries are european, and i say, but before market salaries, we must have market production, it is necessary to go to work and work for 8 hours , not to drink tea, to clean, and to make asphalt such as the autobahn, and hospitals, and schools, and universities, and other options, then

there will be salaries, otherwise there will be no salaries, you must have an education, you must to have a fact, it is really necessary that your hour of your working time, mine, yours, everyone who sees us. so that it costs real money, this is what the european union is, we are moving there, but it will not be a very easy path, this must be understood, well, but we do not have another alternative, so i do not even want to discuss this topic, we already, we already there, you can only talk about the speed of our movement, mr. oleksiy, you said about debts, for most viewers, debts, if they are not their personal. and this is an abstraction, the question of who is to blame for whom, because in all people, people say, wait, this is the state, and this is the state, so be it they are among themselves there is ukrenergo, there is something somewhere, who is to blame for whom, it is not like that, you understand

, let's say, the enterprises of the teplokomung, they are communal, yes, but in kyiv we have kyiv teploenergo, in lviv there are two. teploenergo has everything, they owe naftogaz approximately 100 billion hryvnias for gas, that's 3 million dollars, and you have to understand that sooner or later someone, these debts must be paid off, as from the budget, and the budget is ours and you taxes, and repayment of these debts, it is accordingly unfunded other programs that we expect, so abstract from these budget debts. this is the main sign of an unconscious, non-modern , no, non-european, you understand, because any european first of all keeps track of the money in his wallet, his family budget, as well as

the money of the local budget and the money of the state budget, because it depends on well , a lot, unfortunately, we have been separated from this since soviet times. and people are used to it, these are the problems of some abstract state, it is there, and we ourselves, but no, friends, you will understand that these budget expenses are our taxes, these are external borrowings. and this is something that either we or our descendants will pay, and that is why the huge debts today are , in my opinion, the main reason why, excuse me, mykola, we will not be taken to the european union, because in the energy sector with such burdens no one will take us, you see, it seems to me that the government does not understand this, or pretends that they do not understand this, as well as the decision-making center, well, on the other street, they are making excuses to ... the debt problem of this not exists, and in my opinion, it is key to today, and the imf knows it

, the european union knows it, mr. oleksiy, this is a very important issue, and does anyone know about the ability or inability of citizens to pay for these services, because if everyone said that oh, you can't, but people love themselves belittle, they, oh, i'm poor , he has a salary of 10. oh, i want 20, and when you have $5,000 or $2,000, you can pay, but you don't want to pay, and it's different things, can i or can't, whether i want it or not, there is a concept of capacity, maybe ukrainians can pay, you touched on a key issue, i understand that maybe i, as a politician, yes, as an acting deputy , now have some kind of dissatisfaction, because ukrainians, well , they are always barefoot, well, sorry, unfortunately, they are always barefoot, there is nothing to eat and that’s all, life has not been successful, well, it’s not

yes, absolutely, for cars, look, they set records there every month for the import of new cars, by the way, and according to other criteria, there are shopping centers in kyiv, i talk to the managers there, they just set records there, i’ll tell you a secret, you understand , for the weekend, so i draw your attention to this very bright moment, in the summer this year, the price of electricity for the population increased, it was hryvnia 60, hryvnia 40 and hryvnia 68, it became 2.64, you know, yes, what do you think, mr. mykola, but in november of this month, the consumption of electricity by the population decreased in relation to november last year, did it not decrease, it must decrease, it must, because there is a lot of money, it did not decrease, mr. mike, it is not exactly the same as it was a year ago, that is, an increase. electricity prices per hryvnia, it did not lead to a reduction in consumption and

as a result, ukrainerga is calling every day , ukrainians, please reduce consumption during the hours of this shortage, because energy consumption is at the limit, that is, you understand, our average household consumption is 175 km/h per month, this is the average. the number is like this, if the hryvnia is increased, well, it is as much as uah 175 per month, well, let’s face it, yes, for pensioners, it is essential, i agree , we have to protect pensioners and the low-income, but if the average salary is 16-17 uah for us today, and that's right, sorry, uah 175 per month, this is not a throat, you understand, an indicator, what i am leading to... you are all right, dear ukrainians, you will have to get used to the fact

that sooner or later in ukraine there will be market prices for energy carriers, i do not want to discuss corrupt scandals, i don't want to discuss inefficient management now, it definitely needs to be resolved, but if we go to europe, we will have european prices, because the markets are uniting, whether it's gas or energy. that the labor market unites, just deal with it, no, you don't need me don't like it, because i'm just telling the truth, obviously, and you understand it, and the main thing is to get to this point calmly, take appropriate measures, save energy, use resources sparingly, and definitely ask your employer for an adequate salary, this is my advice for all ukrainians , not that. thank you to oleksiy kucherenko, people's

deputy, first deputy chairman of the committee on energy and housing and communal services of the verkhovna rada. thanks a lot, good news for those who follow the rich, if there will be european prices, then on dam near kyiv, i don't know the name of the place near lviv, where i now live, but near kyiv i know there will be a sale of... estates on dam, because it will be impossible to heat two or three meters, and there is also a swimming pool there it is necessary to warm the whole year round, well, in short , problems will arise, now we turn to culture, we do not often turn to culture, but now we will take it and turn, yuriy polidovych, head of the research department of the treasury of the national museum of the history of ukraine, in we are in touch, good health to you, good health, good

evening, mr. yuriy, the question will not start with kyiv gold, but we will start, i would ask you to answer the question, do we, ukrainians, or any ukrainian authorities know what and how much we have, or not, what we have , and what belongs to us, i will say for the audience, you know about this better than i do, most museums in the west and in the center of ukraine evacuated their paintings, they are located somewhere in europe, we have: now there are not so many outstanding ones, because everyone was afraid attack, well, everyone understood what the russians would do with those paintings, so from of a sin, and the sin in this case is the russians , they took it all away, but there is an understanding of how much there is, how many such paintings we have, how much gold we have, how many such works

of art, how many others, how many archaeological finds and so on, so just so we understand, there are such numbers. we know all this, is there an audit or not? well, i would say that this is rather a question for the ministry of culture, to what extent they have general information there in such a volume, for ukraine as a whole with some generalized figures, but of course, each museum, er, has its own accounting, is very well oriented in what is located below. and this information is regularly transferred every year to the ministry, to the corresponding sector where this accounting is carried out, and i think that it is all accounted for, but, unfortunately, as was evident from the situation with the kherson museum, with the art, when

the russians brought it all, then until the very end...' all this volume, to understand where and what, i don't know, just how much is known or not, again, this is more a question for the ministry, but accounting it is being conducted, it exists, that’s definitely all, all this information is present, thank you, this is good news, it’s really about kherson, i know, by the way, it’s a wonderful museum, i’ve been there twice, it really, really impressed me, it really , has, has, has something that is very valuable from my point of view, now to the gold of skov, so they are returning it, the trials have already ended, as i understood, are they returning it, or is it better to leave it somewhere in europe, so that again somewhere someone did not steal, but then the question arises, how much does it cost to store valuables somewhere there, i don't know if it's in vienna or amsterdam,

or paris, or vilnius, i don't know, well, the point is that they've already returned it, and it's not just abstract gold, it's exactly the footage, the unloading of the car, and how they bring to us in the treasury, er, the boxes of these valuables, er, these are items from the exhibition that was originally exhibited in germany, from july 13, 2013 to january 2000 the 14th, and then moved to amsterdam in the netherlands and was exhibited there from february to august 2014, and actually after the end of this exhibition , the question arose, where to return the objects, which were exhibited at the exhibition, and uh, here

you are in this, if such a legal case, well, first about what to say, if already in advance. that all this was now returned to ukraine, it all arrived on monday, everything is now with us, and uh, actually, it cost quite a lot, during these nine years, while the court uh, trials were taking place, while it was being decided , the very question of where it is possible to return all these objects, and during this time a fairly large amount of money came in due to the fact that the dutch museum, the dutch museum kept in itself these exhibits, because it was a separate room where a certain temperature, humidity regime was maintained, everything was spent on it, probably the corresponding funds, but

thanks to our partners, from the allard pierston museum, uh, actually, they agreed to cancel these money, because there was already more than €100,000. and make such a gesture to the side. the country understands that all the current difficulties are financial, and if they canceled this amount, making such a gesture of goodwill, truly goodwill, then those objects that are now stored somewhere in the european museums, in european centers, it is also a good-neighborly gesture when colleagues from other museums accept exhibits for storage and actually this is also stored free of charge for

our museums, and we hope that all this will return to ukraine over time, the fact that the exhibition, objects from exhibitions, in the netherlands returned to kyiv, well , it can be considered differently, someone might say not in time, because the war continues, evacuation from the main collections and they are not stored in place, but since the decision has already been made to return, since already so the storage period itself was quite long, so in the end, the management, here not only of the museum, of the national museum of the history of ukraine, which was recognized... as the one who now takes responsibility for the preservation of this collection, but also at the level of the cabinet of ministers , it was decided that there are possibilities

for the return of this collection, and well, first of all, it is certain that we are very grateful museum workers, we are very grateful to our armed forces, our ppo, because this is a reliable measure, first of all, from the sky and that that the hope that any collisions with the military, as it was, at the beginning in march-april of the 22nd year, that such events will no longer happen, and therefore we can return it, because in fact it is the return of this collection, it is very symbolic for ukraine, ukraine continues to return its own, mr. yuriy, look, and well i'm like that now, i was once an architect too, i even restored something in the crimea, chersonese, but look,

now we're talking about kakhovska hes, we drained this water, we've lost something, well, i understand that people are first and foremost was interested in whether we are lands where there can be grain, or these lands, nad what was the water, what is living. led some fields there, but maybe there was something underground, something we already knew about, and now we have lost it, what do you say about such moments? yes, of course, the kokhov reservoir, well, the kokhov reservoir itself, it flooded the banks of the dnieper, which had been populated for thousands of years, the dnieper has always been so sharp. around which it raged, where people settled from the stone age to the cossack times to modern times, and it is certain that these remnants of past life, they

were and are, we hope, still there in the land, when the construction of this hydroelectric power station was planned and, accordingly , there was talk of flooding the land, certain archaeological... researches were carried out in the early 50s, especially excavations of mounds were carried out, some point studies of bronze settlements, the middle ages, but this is such a small drop of what was actually managed to be examined, recorded, and if all this remained in our understanding, the past of this land, but most of the time, most of it... went under water on one side, and on the other side there was another problem that the sea washed away the shores, the shores and actually

the sights that it finds... on these shores, they also continued to collapse, that is, it was such a peculiar process, uh, in which, again, archaeologists tried to monitor, study these monuments that were crumbling , but now, when the water has receded, then, in those places that were once monuments, and those that were known from ancient research, maybe something is still preserved there, maybe there can still be to find something, because wherever it was possible, during this time, for archaeologists to go ashore, to find out something, then er, yes, certain er, objects were indeed found, but two such questions immediately arose here, the first question is that, in fact, now, the dnieper line is

a military line. such a demarcation, and it is practically forbidden for expeditions to officially go there, to conduct any research, because it is a military zone, and special permits must be obtained from military administrations from military units, this is the first, and the second problem is that we have a certain part , people who in this case can simply be called looters, who, what they do not pay attention to any obstacles, nothing, they immediately rushed to these famous cities, where the zaporizhia sichi were located, where there were monuments, because these places were published in the archaeological literature, and they began their dirty work by digging up some artifacts and so on, and it immediately went to the black market and so on , well, really, it will be possible to evaluate these

only after conducting real archeological research, which is possible only under certain conditions, father yuri, one more question , lastly, we have all heard many times about the high russian culture, that they are all cultured there, but on the other hand, in recent years we have heard that they are doing something terrible in the crimea, as an example, this is the bakhchisaray khan's palace, that it is being restored incorrectly, something is wrong one, they do, second, third, fourth , as far as all this is true, i’m there , putin is coming, the same bastard that i once restored, well, not me, i worked a little there, yes, and they keep it in a normal state, or they like barbarians, doing everything wrong, well, it's hard here to say, because i am not an expert, of those architectural structures, but i also heard about some

very terrible repair work with bakhchirsarai with the khan's palace, with some incomprehensible events in chersonese, and whether it was restoration or reconstruction or, some modern , yes , intervention in an archaeological monument, which may be a destruction, has already led to the destruction, well, this especially applies, first of all, to the khan's palace. because what they were trying to achieve, what was the goal, well, it is certain that we do not know such, yes in some way based on the information that reaches us, i think that in general we will understand when crimea is already liberated and we will be able to truly appreciate this sudden intervention in historical monuments. thank you very much, yuriy polidovych, head of research at the treasury department of the national museum

of the history of ukraine. with us, my part of the program is over, it's all good, see you next week, i wish you all a peaceful peaceful evening and night. 20:00 in ukraine, for your attention, a news release on the espresso tv channel, in iryna's studio koval, welcome to all viewers. let's start with the situation in kherson. two people died, seven more were hospitalized with serious injuries. the russians hit kherson with barrel artillery, the head of the region oleksandr prokudin reported about it. regional blood center.