good evening, we are from ukraine, glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhii ordenko, i greet everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next two hours, we will talk about ukraine, the world, the war and our victory, today in the program. money and time are running out for ukraine, an urgent warning to congress from the white house, what will our country do without the financial support of the united states? let's stop being different from russia, klitschko said that ukraine is moving towards authoritarianism, but is it really so? war against the politics that is actually happening between zelensky and zaluzhny.

we will talk about this and other things over the course of the next hour with our guests, people's deputies of ukraine valentyn nalyvaichenko and oleksiy honcharenko and political analyst viktor boberenko. in the second part of our program, which will start at 21:15, we will have people's deputies of ukraine, volodymyr vyatrovych, solomiya bobrovska and vitaly bezgin. however, before we start our big night, let's see. video of shooting down by air forces of the armed forces of ukraine of a russian drone in the south of the country on monday night. six destroyed shaheds and a supercam reconnaissance drone, the result of the combat work of units of the kherson anti-aircraft missile brigade on the night of december 4. let's see.

friends, for those who are currently watching us live on youtube and facebook, please like this video and subscribe. to our pages, and most importantly, vote in our poll, today we ask you about whether you see attempts to usurp power in ukraine, yes, no, please vote for youtube, it's pretty simple, feature yes, feature no, or if you have an opinion , please comment below this video, if you're watching us on tv, pick up your phone or smartphone and vote if you see signs that there is usurpation of power in ukraine, call

0800-211-381, no, 0800 211-382, all calls to these numbers are free, call, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. we are in touch with valentyn nalivaichenko, people's deputy of ukraine, former head of the security service of ukraine. mr. valentin, i congratulate you and i am glad that you are with us today. good evening, glory to ukraine. thank you, mr. valentin, today we are asking our viewers whether they see attempts to usurp power in ukraine, and this is due to the fact that the mayor of kyiv, vitaliy klitschko , said that there are attempts by authoritarianism to establish authoritarianism in ukraine, this is what he said in an interview with the influential german weekly spiegel, do you see a threat to democracy and an attempt at what the authorities can find...' in

hands of one person or several people? no, i don’t see it, i see and know that we have approved martial law, and all power in the country, primarily the military, is really in the hands of one person, the supreme commander-in-chief of ukraine, once, secondly, the entire vertical of power during the war is in the hands of the military, the commander-in-chief’s troops . is convinced that the entire direction of the government should be in support of the armed forces of ukraine, for this purpose the power is concentrated and for this reason we voted for the introduction of martial law, this, by the way, is the essence of it , no democratic freedom, no court procedure will cancel it. on the law on

martial law, that is, the rights and freedoms of ukrainian citizens must be observed, but by military administrations. i will quote vitaliy klitschko, because i know. what an influence spiegel magazine has in germany, and that's a pretty serious statement in fact, what did vitaliy klitschko say? at some point, we will cease to be different from russia, where everything depends on the whim of one person. currently, there is only one independent institution, but it is under enormous pressure, it is local self-government. in the first months of the war , the country was without leadership, it was downright chaos. and mayors took on a key role as leaders of the public. thoughts protecting cities and helping the military, while klitschko said that since february 24 , 2022, he did not meet or speak with president zelenskyi, is it normal in the conditions of war, mr. valentin, that there is no

contact between the central, central government and local self-government bodies, and this gives rise to the same klitschko, who is known in the world, he has a world name. to appeal to the fact that wait, we can become the second russia, this is not normal, there must be full not only contact, full cooperation of local self-government with the military organization of ukraine, that is, with military administrations, the rank of the supreme commander-in-chief, because everything what is needed for the armed forces of ukraine is produced, provided on the ground, in the cities and villages of ukraine, and therefore local communities and local self-government, it is equally important, i think, it is necessary, it must be preserved in ukraine, it must be supported, because there on land and military families live, all of us who stayed and protect the country and help

protect the country live there, moreover, well, we all agreed, moreover, we are doing so, we are joining the european union, and in the european union is local self-government... full and unlimited is the cornerstone of democracy and the existence of such an institution as the european union in general, therefore i am against canceling or limiting local self-government, i believe that the full rate, full commander-in-chief and supreme commander-in-chief, i confirm as a man who remained, took up arms from the very first days and nights of the russian aggression. when they were approaching kyiv, which is territorial defense, we, kyivans, came out with weapons and were preparing to defend the city, and moreover, the kyivans fed and maintained the territorial defense, especially the first weeks and months of the full-scale invasion, that is

, justice and recognition that the local self-government, local communities and cities of kyiv and other cities and forces deserved respect, as well as mutually we will respect and support the armed forces of ukraine. this is such a combination, mr. serhiu, this is the kind of unity, i believe, ukraine should have. mr. valentin , as a person who twice headed the security service of ukraine, you know exactly how v under extreme conditions, the government must act and what is interfering with this unity, or who is interfering, we are now witnessing how a whole panorama of a conflict unfolds before us, the office of the president of ukraine, because i... say zelenskyi, because zelskyi does not say anything about it, and the command or the commander-in-chief of the collective forces of ukraine, valery zaluzhny, today a large text appeared in the online publication ukrainian pravda, there they try to explain why this is happening, a kind of sociology appears,

which, in principle, during martial law it should be who has the right, or who has a chance to become the president of ukraine, well, it's just not no'. at the moment, to put it mildly, but we see how this whole system is being shaken, that's why , in your opinion, the supreme commander of the armed forces of ukraine, who is in principle above valery zaluzhny, and the fact that he may have claims against him, well it is absolutely obvious that what some questions can articulate, correctly, because he is in the status that he is, he manages including and gives instructions to the servant, why in this situation, when to many people from the servant of the people are torpedoing, informational torpedoing the industrious, why doesn't zelsky put an end to this and say: listen, it's enough to do this, we are united, our only goal is victory, and we shouldn't quarrel and don't look at

those who have a trust rating of 20, because this is not a presidential rating, what was published is a trust rating, and the trust rating of a volunteer is a rating of trust in the armed forces of ukraine. it is not necessary to do this enough, i remember. i behave with you and the most important conclusion is that we all support the armed forces of ukraine , just like the armed forces of ukraine, they are our defenders, that is, we, our people, and this is the unity of the country, so those who confuse the support of the armed forces and the support of our defenders with some politics, with some ratings, with some intrigues and insults, with some russian or pro-russian ipso to remove a scumbag or appoint a scumbag, you hold an election. do not spend during the war, we have a simple and clear answer, nothing that

prevents the armed forces from defending the countries, we it is not needed, and for the survival of the country, for the defense of the country, only one policy is needed, it is called support of the armed forces of ukraine, from the supreme commander, the commander-in-chief, and most importantly, everyone who is on the front lines of our defenders. mr. valentine, again, returning. there are a lot of comments from the foreign press about the situation in ukraine. the british economist writes that russia still has a chance of defeating ukraine, and these chances are quite high, so far there, because it was determined that way, so far, today the article of the washington post came out, where they write about the counteroffensive, that everything did not go according to plan, and zaluzhny had to change tactics, that is , a lot of different ones... there are signals that ukraine lacks weapons, ukraine needs

help, ukraine needs political and not only political, but financial, and that if the event does not help ukraine now, it may really happen that russia will be under the eastern border of the north atlantic alliance, which according to you...' all these publications testify, that is, their purpose is to say that ukraine is not finalizing something, is it still directed at those who are at the helm of western countries, well, great britain in this case and the united states of america, i think that such publications, they have really become a little more than before, since due to two reasons, the first - indeed, with american, german, and even british journalists, there are, in my

opinion, quite a lot of people, from the office of the president, from other authorities, who give their assessment on the condition of anonymity, which is definitely not positive, and journalists, researchers, investigators of the western media, and that is how they work, they collect hundreds, hundreds, hundreds of opinions, and then the material appears, and the fact that it is very often, now you know, not so positive about the prospects of our victory, then this is a question for such commentators and to such comments, which are provided precisely in ukraine, precisely in the ukrainian authorities. what to do with it? in my opinion, it is necessary to return the world to all of us, and in the information policy of ukraine, ukraine, first of all to the truth, to the real situation, well, you started, start your broadcast with how our glorious rocket launchers successfully shoot down and destroy terrorist munitions barrages under the names of shahit or under

any other name, this is where the broadcast begins, and with this, all of us in ukraine who are in contact with the media, especially the western ones, must start with what they can our armed forces, which need armed forces for the defense of the country and the european union and nato, because we are now stopping the russian aggression on our land, and it is clear that we must speak soberly and professionally not only the truth, but also what ukraine needs, first of all, is the armed forces, don't throw around some cosmic figures of 100 billion, 300 billion, no, no, no, there should be a professional position where the volume and type of weapons prove it, i already mentioned it on your broadcast, allow me once again cite, military attachés of ukraine, i.e. professional military , to professional american military, this is the first level, the second level is the government to

the government, the president to the president, these are political agreements, the third level is the verkhovna rada of ukraine, what we are doing now with congress of the united states, with both republicans and democrats, because bipartisan support is important to us and there will be a vote on the additional defense budget for ukraine before christmas this year, it will be on the condition that all three levels work, you know, in the evil with a single position and with a single purpose, i have a very negative perception of intrusions, you know, intrigues, falsification of information, and from here in ukraine, more so from representatives of the ukrainian authorities, this weakens us, and it must be stopped immediately, and all the authorities in order to restore order, of course, are in of the president, and in the stakes, and in the military administrations, by the way, the administration of the president of the united states of america sent an urgent warning to congress about the need to approve tens of billions

of dollars for military and economic aid to ukraine, in a letter to the leaders of the house of representatives and the senate. the director of the management office, shallanda janfka, said that by the end of the year the united states of america would run out of funds to send weapons and aid to ukraine, saying that this would bring ukraine to its knees on the battlefield. to quote: i want to be clear explain that without action by congress, by the end of the year, we will run out of resources to buy more weapons and equipment for ukraine and to secure equipment from the united states military stockpile. there is no magical source of funding to solve this issue, we are out of money and almost out of time, and the fact that we are out of money and out of time, mr. valentin, will certainly affect the course of the russo-ukrainian war, and let's put it this way , and for the finale of the russian-ukrainian war, because these

intermediate stages of delaying weapons, later affect how our... counterattacks are going, how we defend ourselves, and how our armed forces of ukraine are ultimately advancing, why do you think in america, there is still no common understanding that what is happening in ukraine is the future not only of ukraine, but of europe and the world. the most important thing that is happening and is in america, and i brought this information to myself on the telegram channel, is public opinion and public support of the american people, american citizens, ordinary people, the ukrainian people and our struggle, and it is not just there 50-51%, up to 70%, more than 70% of americans even support the provision of additional military, defense, armed aid to ukraine, this is what is important for us, and i read even this last

statement of the white house budget director, in an address to congress : that is, to the republicans and to the democrats, in congress in the house of representatives, i read this as what we need to do in order to avoid a situation where by the end of the year the defense budget has not been approved by congress, we must do everything to get it approved , so i decipher, first, for us, verkhovna rada congress, a group of friendship with congress, we are working to the maximum so that the vote will take place and that republicans and democrats will support it. second, the ukrainian diaspora, ukrainian organizations, ukrainian organizations in the united states, from detroit, michigan to sacramento and california, all are also raised now, and we thank them all for writing to their congressmen, convincing, this is the most serious voice, that is, a voice voter to their congressman, and they definitely help us and will help

congress vote, the third support group - these are honorary consulates, and they are headed by americans. citizens, honorary consulates of ukraine in america, consulates general of ukraine, which are headed by professional ukrainian diplomats, as well as the embassy in washington, that is, it is a consulate and diploma and diploma, you know the chalon of diplomacy, which is also actively working, and all this in the aggregate, i am convinced, is a strong ukrainian position, again my only caveat is only to those who are thoughtless in my opinion and harmful... statements like those made by, for example, mrs. bezugla from the parliament, this prevents us from working, prevents the ukrainian diaspora to work and prevents us and our american partners from reaching a faster approval of defense aid to ukraine this year, so i reject the scenario that there will be no aid and everything is lost, but i do not perceive

such rash and counterproductive statements from individual representatives and even the presidential faction. in the parliament, mr. valentin, you mentioned mariana bezugla, after all, she is not just an ordinary people's deputy from the servant of the people, she is the deputy head of the parliamentary committee on national affairs of security and defense, i.e. a person who , in principle, influences the course of the war, because he makes decisions, he makes statements, he calls on the worthy to resign, and in this situation there is a lack of reaction and leaders... of the party and honorable leaders of the party, well raises a lot of questions, that is, is she saying it herself, is she not saying it herself, if she is not saying it herself, or... someone is writing these posts on facebook instead of her, well, this also means that the responsibility is still according to party leaders, uh, how would you, as, as a specialist, as a person,

who worked for a long time in the special services, how would you characterize the role of marina bezugloi in this whole story, the content and timing of such statements is extremely beneficial to only one country, this is the aggressor country, the russian federation, once. second, the military organization and the commander-in-chief cannot be politically critical, i repeat, politically, and the deputies of the verkhovna rada are especially those who make political statements, engage in politics and interfere with the combat work of our armed forces and commanders-in-chief, and thirdly, everyone calm down, who does not know the law of ukraine, that the supreme commander, i.e. the president... has full right to change any military commander at any time, if there is someone to replace him, but this is at his discretion, at his decision, this is

another additional testimony that no political advice, criticism, and reproaches are not needed in order for the country to continue to defend itself and support the armed forces of ukraine, that's it briefly and to the point, and since we have already mentioned the aid, i can't help but mention... another statement by jens stolteng, secretary general of nato, he said about the fact that the allies should increase their support for our state, and he informed about this in an interview with one of the german publications, do we have stolteng's synchronicity, please, well, actually, i will quote what stoltenberg said, we must also be ready for bad news the course of wars is not a constant, but a changing process. we must support ukraine in good and bad times. the current war is a war of

attrition, it is a battle for efficiency, a battle for logistics. it is necessary to understand that in the event of putin's victory, tragedy awaits ukraine, but it will also be dangerous for us. well, here is the main question that arises when we talk about help. about the fact that they support the west, western states, nato supports , is there a common understanding of what a victory for ukraine is and what a defeat for russia is, because i ask about this quite often, but it seems to me that we talk about it every time, and well, we have to set the emphasis when, in the end, both nato, and the united states, great britain, when they understand that the defeat of russia means the removal of putin from power, or the collapse of russia, the victory of ukraine is when russia on the territory of russian troops will not be on the territory of the ukrainian state, when, when will this understanding be, or what is now in their understanding,

the victory of ukraine and the defeat of russia? the main thing here is what we understand and what our armed forces are fighting for, and we all support, in order to push the enemy out of our territory, in order to restore the territorial integrity of ukraine. in order to stop genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes on our territory, and all three our goals, of course, they contain, is to push the russian federation, the aggressor, out of our territory, knock out, push out, as you like, first of all now, while there is a war, it is clear that by military means, without giving up other methods, that is, international sanctions, economic ... the aggressor, i think, and i want to share my thoughts on the live broadcast where we desperately need international help. now about the secretary general, i agree with you, dear tv viewers,

that as soon as the us congress approves multi-level defense aid to ukraine, this will also be followed by decisions on further support for ukraine and the armed forces of other nato member countries, primarily germany, france, spain, that is, the most. economies of the european union and the most powerful arms manufacturers of nato member countries. thank you, mr. valentin, it was valentin nalyvaichenko, people's deputy of ukraine, former head of the security service of ukraine. friends, we work live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are currently watching us on youtube and facebook, please like this video, subscribe to our pages and take part in our voting. today we ask you about the following: do you see attempts to usurp power in ukraine, if you vote on youtube, everything is quite simple there, yes, no, or your opinion, please write in the comments

under the video. if you are sitting in front of the tv, pick up the phone and vote, if you see signs or attempts to usurp power in ukraine, vote on 0800-211-381, no, 0800-211-382. let me remind you that all calls to these numbers are free, so they are intermediate we can see the results now, 87% of those who watch us on tv believe that there is an attempt to usurp power, 13% do not see such usurpation. authorities, next we have viktor boberenko, political scientist, political expert and expert of the analysis and policy bureau. mr. viktor, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our broadcast. good health, i haven't seen you for a long time, greetings to sumy and sumy region. sir, mr. viktor, i will immediately ask you, or ask you again, the same question that we

ask our viewers. do you see attempts to usurp power in ukraine, because based on klitschko's statements that he sees that ukraine is following an authoritarian path, you see that there is some kind of attempt to usurp power, well, not only that, i have been talking about the fact that we have such a world phenomenon, when ukraine . uh, being a de facto authoritarian state, fighting for the free world. such a paradox, we are fighting for a free world, for freedom of the press, for free communities, for local self-government , for society not tolerating corruption, and all this we are putting up with in a country that does not meet

these standards, and in fact we have the country authoritarian and only the armed forces of ukraine and the ukrainian society, which is fighting for a free civilized world, i repeat, there will be research, it will be a historical, well , a study by historians of this social paradox, because it really is a paradox, mr. viktor, which perhaps, you know, with what you can compare how stalin's, well, actually a totalitarian country, fought against nazism together with those who signed this freedom charter with roosevelt and churchill, and then with de gaulle, yes, that is, it is somewhat similar, and that , which allowed there, then long it is time to say that we are strong, we are here

together with... with the free world, so what, well, in this situation, i will say that the ukrainians are waging a people's war, a big one, because it is a big people's war against the russian occupiers, and, of course, there are questions about the central government, and what the central government is doing, there really are a lot of questions here, because those who are at the front, they probably deserve... more, for the future, for a better future of ukraine, let's say so, and here in this context, i can't help but think about zelensky's monthly information marathon against zaluzhnyi, or the president's office against zaluzhnyi, i think you have already seen today's article, in one of the influential online publications, called the war against politics, what is actually happening between zelenskyi and zaluzhnyi, what is the purpose of

this according to you... informational marathon, although it seems to lie on the surface, zaluzhny can become the president, although zaluzhny never said in any way that he wants to go into politics, that he wants to be the president of ukraine, that he is going to run for office, here in this article ratings appeared, there closed ratings, who goes to the second round of the elections, before those elections, it's still a matter of time, sorry, and here a lot of questions arise. are you making a big deal about this at the moment, excuse me in the information field and putting the head of the armed forces in an uncomfortable position, forcing him to say something or make excuses for something, when he leads the army that is at war with russia, this is the case, you know, as for as for the good man without me, i was married, but the good man probably didn't

go there and didn't think about those you... and there, well, he thinks, how...'