in the central part of ukraine, a little wet snow, daytime air temperature from 2° of frost to 2° of heat, in the southern part of ukraine also precipitation, wet snow, on the roads it will become icy, when the air temperature approaches +2, +3, for example, up to +4 ° it may also rain. well , the weather is expected to be cloudy tomorrow in kyiv, the air temperature will fluctuate around one, frost, and once again happy armed forces day of ukraine and mykolaiv to all , until tomorrow and then the program verdict by serhii rudenko, let's watch together. good evening, we are from ukraine. glory to ukraine, this is

the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next two hours, we will talk about ukraine, the world, the war, our victory, today in the program. traitors by merit. ilya kivo was found dead in the suburbs of moscow. who liquidated the ex-people's deputy? on the verge of collapse, whether the united states will give ukraine money and when for measures. political football will end ukraine on the way to the eu. how and why hungary and slovakia block the european integration of our country. about this and about we will talk about the rest during the next hour with our guest, politician, diplomat, former ambassador of ukraine to the united states of america, valery chaly. in the second part of our program, there will be a political science and political technology studio, because we will have volodymyr fissenko and andriy as guests. and vitaly

kulyk, however, before starting our big conversation, i suggest you watch a video of the excellent work of calculating the atgm stugna. our defenders hit a russian bmp in the direction of bakhmut, the corresponding video was released by the fighters of the first separate brigade special appointment named after ivan bohun, let's see. friends, for those who are currently watching us live on youtube, please subscribe to our page, like this video, and also take. participation in our vote

, today we ask you about whether ukraine should make concessions for peace with russia, yes no, please vote in our mobile application, on our website espresso tv, as well as by phone lines, on the screens you are now see phone numbers, all calls to these numbers are free if you think that ukraine should make concessions for the sake of peace with russia, call 0800-211-381, no, 0800-21. 382 we are in touch with valery chaly, politician, diplomat, extraordinary plenipotentiary ambassador of ukraine to the united states of america in 2015-19. mr. valery, i welcome you and thank you for joining our conversation. i congratulate you, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. just a few minutes ago, joseph biden addressed the congress, before the decisive vote on providing financial assistance to ukraine.

for financial assistance to ukraine, but i will ask do you still want to comment on the event with ilya kiva, who was shot today by the ukrainian special services in the suburbs of moscow, because in principle we are talking about what the ukrainian special services showed to all the collaborators who fled to russia, and there are a lot of them, that they have a peaceful life there won't be, but will there be... someday, in your opinion, such an opportunity to legally bring to justice and obtain from the russians those traitors who are currently on the territory of the russian federation, well, maybe after putin's death, or after russia begins fall apart, because there are dozens, if not hundreds, of collaborators? i will tell you that i adhere to the principle that, in connection with death, there is not much to comment on everything, i would use this opportunity, thank you. to our armed forces

of ukraine on the day of the armed forces of ukraine, to thank all those who protect the sovereignty of ukraine and our future, both here and all those who... do, as we see, and this is also about ukraine, especially, really justice comes when traitors to the state, well, if we talk about yalyukiva, i'm not commenting on the situation here, it's simple i will say, he is already being held responsible in ukraine for treason, accordingly, if it is the way it sounded, then in my opinion it is fair, what happened to him, but there are a lot of people... there really are people who believe in the fact that the fate of not revenge, of justice can pass them by, but historically we know that this is not the case, and for some reason all people know about it that sooner or later they will catch up, they will be caught up by what

they have done badly in this world , whether on this earth or in heaven, but this i am sure that it will definitely happen, it's another matter... how many plans do they make and take the lives of good people, peaceful people, people who are now defending, not only ukraine, but defending europe, defending against even a geopolitical explosion like this in the world, that's why in principle, i believe that one way or another, of course, we must fight against traitors, significantly, and this is part of the war, it is absolutely natural, and the more successes there are at the front, on land, in the black sea, in the special operations of our units, that way we will bring closer victory. thank you,

mr. valeriu, let's go back to the united states of america, because literally, just before our inclusion, joseph biden, the president, went on the air. of the united states of america and addressed the congress, explained the situation, what i heard and managed to write down: we need to bring putin to justice - said biden, if putin takes over ukraine, he will not stop there, he will attack nato allies, and we will see how the american military will fight against the russian military, today's vote will be remembered for a long time, we cannot allow putin has to win, why, mr. valeriu, biden: forced for two years of war, and why is he in a big war, why is he forced to convince american politicians that this is so important, is it the republicans who insist on solving migration issues that concern the border with mexico, don't they understand

that kona is not only about helping ukraine, kona is about helping the whole world. well, first of all, i listened carefully to the president's speech. u.s., it's very timely and it's a very strong performance in terms of what when we say, will america provide military aid, this speech and some other factors indicate that it will be. that is , this whole process, which we are currently observing every day with validol, today yes, tomorrow will be better, it will end successfully, from the point of view of assistance to the armed forces of ukraine. that is, technology, training, intelligence, including space, cyberserity, these funds will be, i'm not sure that they will be, in the amount that the white house is asking for, because we see quite hard republicans defend their

positions, you ask why? well, because, like in ukraine, as well as in other countries, first of all, politicians will decide. hear the question of how the situation is at the present time , republican voters, many of them say that it is necessary to solve internal issues first, which are, for example, border security, but what is the benefit when politicians take advantage of this and put in the package or interdependence of the national interests of the usa, this really weakens their position , they have done this not for the first time, and these negotiations will continue until the day of the adoption of the budget, i think, until december 15, and even if not there will be a financial solution for help, and this is also this scenario, the worst scenario, then i also do not see an absolute disaster here,

other mechanisms may be applied later, and there is a lot more in the white house, but today joseph biden wants to push in the political plan, because there is a fight, uh , about elections and it's not only the presidential election next year on november 5, it 's the congressional election, it's the election of the house of representatives and a third of the senate, it's the gubernatorial election, that is, it's about... the internal process of the united states, i can not to say that republican senators are against aid to ukraine, no, but they are primarily american politicians, and they want , to put it simply, it is my, well, my opinion that the struggle for whether to participate in a more profitable position of their representative in the elections or not. behind this is donald trump, behind the position of mike johnson, who is currently being pursued by the american authorities there, but they want to show that if donald trump is not allowed to participate on an equal basis, then there will be

such chaos, that is, it will continue, in fact, that's why we don't need, i say again , every day, these will continue to waver , these are all decisions, today, for example, joseph biden spoke, yes, it would seem, well , on the eve, as we think, of the main vote itself, yes, and my prediction for this vote is negative, because for some reason the democrats have completely excluded from this package the issues that are of interest to the republicans, but the next steps will be, i think closer to the 15th, they will vote in the senate and in the the house of representatives, and the main issue of mike johnson is to transfer the budget the process in parts and not to adopt the budget, but if he does not succeed and the white house still wins, then they will vote on the budget by the 15th, i will tell you so, if we see. until december 15, the vote on the us budget, then everything will be unlocked, because there is an nda, it is a 900

billion military budget, there are other programs, and then the white house will have a bunch of other arguments and other programs, including those that they can abandon from the decisions of the congress. but mr. valery, can you explain to me why president zelenskyi, whose speech was announced via video link to senators about the united states of america, why it was canceled and whether, in this case , president zelensky did the right thing, because defense minister umerov, who is in the united states together with andriy yermak and ruslan stefanchuk, said that zelenskyi canceled the speech due to the fact that there is a war in ukraine and the situation is constantly changing, this is a war, the situation is changing, but i think zelenskyi will gratefully do it when there is, maybe next time, whether this speech was appropriate would have been in front of... the senators of the united states of america, or the president simply did not want

to interfere in his own internal kitchen, american politicians, why didn't they wait, because i was also waiting yesterday, when will there be a message about zelensky's speech or about his communication with senators? i concluded for myself, from the amount of information that i know, if the announcement of the speech was made, it was to speak, that is, the negative from the expectations that it will not be a victory right away, but for the president, because there was, you see, as there events developed, the dispute escalated , they left the hall, but this negativity is still there, because you and i are discussing why he did not speak, that is, the simplest explanation in this situation is that the president is also not a robot and, if he has certain nuances arose at this time, it was canceled in 20 minutes, anything can happen, maybe more important things arose there,

so it is not a disaster, absolutely, from the point of view of the impact on the american situation, it did not reduce the chances of voting there much, not from not completely , from the point of view of internal ukrainian, there was more negativity from not speaking, but i would not speculate on the reasons, because no one will answer it without the president or his spokesman, in such... cases, it is always abroad and we in ukraine have a tradition, the president's spokesman answers, but i have already forgotten the president's spokesman when i explained such situations or appeared in public, we have this kind of empty place, i absolutely agree with you about the explanations, because they were simply necessary, but i already mentioned rustam umerov , rustem umerov, and about ruslan stefanchuk, and about andriy yarmak, who flew to the united states of america and had meetings with american senators and

congressmen, do ukrainian politicians have enough opportunities in the system that exists in the united states of america, in this case, i consider the politician to be moderate and stefanchuk, a messenger from president yarmak, because he, as i understand it, is not a politician, that's right. eh, do they have enough opportunities to influence some vote, some decision or convince, or again, this is an internal issue that republicans and democrats must first clarify among themselves, and ukraine can be in the role of an outsider, not an observer, but a participant? in this case, it is absolutely natural that ukraine should be a participant, not an observer, because this request is for us, and it was strange earlier to observe how many

official letters were received from the white house, letters were received from the pentagon, the state department. and ukraine, official letters from ukraine, well, it’s been a long time, yes, there haven’t been any in this regard, since october, in my opinion, when there was, then there were such requests officially at the level of the president, and then we already lost those two months, so i wonder why we watched until the last moment, now we rushed, at the last moment, to really save the situation, in coordination, this is all happening in coordination with the white house, so that's right, and why is it necessary, there's the leader... of the house republicans, mike johnson, he's always coming up with some kind of argument. in fact, he plays a very complicated game. he wants to exchange altogether, or exchange aid to ukraine for major concessions, joseph biden and on his political, essentially on blows on his political image. that is, he is playing, behind him is donald trump, i am sure of it.

that is, he has his own line. but he won't be able to do that, for example, when he now responded to the letter, the white house, that, not only is the problem that there is funding, but show us what this money will go to, and show us a plan where this money goes, to what types of weapons, how they will help to win, it seems a beautiful formula, yes, but in these conditions, when the days are already standing, it drags out the process, it plays against his interests, he wants to drag it out until january, so the presence of the minister of defense directly in conversation with him will already remove the possibility of manipulating this issue, because it is the minister of defense who will now provide him with answers to many of these questions, and he will no longer be able to apolo like that, so that is very good, what i said a long time ago that the speaker of the ukrainian parliament should meet with him, especially since there are tools for this, so it is very good that they met him now,

those participants you say have delegations there , there were different goals, visits, there are also just such a forum of defense technologies , weapons production, by the way, it is also good that it coincided, because these american arms manufacturers will tell the media how this money goes to them, not to ukraine, but to them it goes to alabama, tns, where there are republican districts , as they norce carolna, north carolina, maybe even on mike johnson's district. although he has an old military base there, there are weapons warehouses, but there is also a question, it was possible to enter from this side, that is , in principle, i think it is very good that it coincided like this now, and in principle, it will an additional argument from the ukrainian side for unblocking this issue,

so it should be done, it should have been done all the time before, but if it is already there, it is good that now, although we will lose two months. anthony blinken, secretary of state of the united states of america said that the united states should support ukraine, because the lack of support will lead to significant consequences, let's listen to what blinken said. we must make every effort to ensure that russia continues to fail in its aggression against ukraine. if we we will not, if putin is allowed to continue to act with impunity, it will open a pandora's box of aggression around the world, other potential aggressors will watch, they will learn, they will listen, they will draw conclusions. as jim mattis has always liked to say, and as lloyd

austin likes to say, in this case, 1 gram of prevention is now much better than a kilogram of medicine. later, andriy yermak, while in the united states of america, said that ukraine, without the help of the united states, could lose the war with russia, to quote him, there will be a great risk that we will remain in the position in which we are now, and of course this will make it impossible to continue the efforts to liberate the ukrainian territories, and will create a great risk of losing this war, but ye says that we can to lose this war, the economist wrote that russia is on the verge of winning the war in ukraine for the time being, that is, the head of the office of the president of ukraine is already telling the whole world that there is such a possibility if we do not we will receive this help when blinken says that we

need to do all this, so every time there are many questions about how quickly the united states of america reacts and gives these pills that allow us to destroy the russian occupiers and equalize the balance of power... on the russian- ukrainian front, can we expect, mr. valery , the acceleration of this process, we are talking about the 61 billion dollars in the package, which must be voted in the congress, and is it about the fact that the moment will come when the armed forces of ukraine will receive so much weapons, how many is really necessary in order to gain an advantage, not a parity, from the russian army, well , i will start with the fact that i think it is not very correct to say that without this current american decision, about a certain amount of aid, we

will lose the war. i believe that this is a false thesis. if that were the case, then i would say, with all this together, we will win the war, yes, which is also far from the truth, there are many factors that affect the outcome of this. standing, this is a large-scale confrontation, it is , of course, huge in terms of history confrontation in europe, and i think that we still do not know how it will end, how events will develop, so there is no need to make such statements that can then be interpreted as only with the help, only according to the decisions of the united states, that is this result was achieved, it is not so, because we lost. this war, if we are not strong internally and united, we will lose this war, if there is no institutional strength of the ukrainian state, that is, we will lose this war if we

lose our vision and goals, if we suddenly decide that we will not defend our homes, that we will not protect our children, our wives, yes, yes, well , if there is no help today, it will make it difficult, very seriously difficult, but the government must think, the government, well, understands. in this case, the office of the president, do not say we will lose this war, but tell us , explain, if there is no american help, what will you do to cover this money, these holes, these weapons, how will you work in the direction of other countries, germany, the netherlands, norway, to receive, yes, i understand, the usa is a key country, but not the only one a country in the ramstein coalition, it is a key leader, but not the only one, if everything depends only on the decision. congress, this is a very risky story and it is heard in moscow. i don't think it 's the only factor really, it's important, but not the only one, it's much more important that we have with

the production of weapons, for example, a very important element, which of course we won't hear now, but maybe someday we'll see how much we have produced missiles with a range of more than 1000 km, if we have at least 300-500 missiles with a range of 1000 km, then i will tell you, it will much more important. 30 tanks, abrams , sorry, tank rams, or even, even artillery systems, even, that is, the factor of production of weapons in ukraine, shells, armored vehicles, and especially missiles, which, well, we heard officially that this issue exists, and they produce more self-propelled installations of bohdan, and i think, although we do not know, well , the information, this is secret information, but i really hope that the maximum mobilization of resources, that is, the production of medium and shorter-range missiles, is going on like in a war, because this is what can to stop russia, this is what can stop

the further development of the war, so i insist that now it is wrong to connect every decision in this or that country with the results of the war, we do not know them, they are not predictable, now it is necessary to transfer the country mentally to the conditions of the past year, there is march, april , the mood in society in order to win, and such conclusions after spreading the information that we are conducting a counteroffensive, we will achieve the liberation of the territory, and suddenly such a cold soul, ladies, without this decision of the congress, we will lose, i i believe that this information policy is such, these swings, they are nothing. that are not beneficial for the psyche of people, i emphasize once again that there are many other factors and there are many other resources from where you can get additional

finances, well, by the way, about these swings, about statements, because not only yarmak, but also the american senator from of the democratic party chris murphy says that ukraine can become part of russia, even he says so, if the united states of america does not agree to help kiev, to quote chris murphy, we just need to make a decision now, whether kyiv will a russian or ukrainian city, i'm disappointed that the republicans...' don't take it seriously, it's all about the stakes in this situation, and the stakes are whether ukraine will exist in 12 months or be part of russia, well that's chris's statement murphy and there is also the statement of the secretary of the treasury of the united states of america, janet yellen, she said that the united states will be responsible for the defeat of ukraine if congress does not approve.

the last multi-faceted request of the biden administration for help to ukraine, i spoke with members of congress, my colleagues also talked to them. i think the congressmen understand that this is a terrible situation, and that it is we who can be blamed for the defeat of ukraine, if we cannot provide the necessary funding to the ukrainian government, i mean direct budget support, which is extremely important, well , we see that in washington... such a situation is quite serious, and i understand that the internal situation, to which attention is focused, including the americans, or what is happening in the congress and in the senate, now mr. valery, well it is a common debate there between republicans and democrats that we live this information, because it concerns our lives and our security,

or whether this is a problem for american society and for americans, whether they are included in all these processes and whether they understand, why are they constantly talking about the fact that there will be ukraine, there will not be ukraine, kyiv will be ukrainian or russian, you know , in fact, well, the focus of attention, of course , moved there to the middle east, a couple of months ago, on the seventh, it is absolutely natural , eh, there are other problems, but still serious attention remains, we must thank as many channels, such as cnn, and many american newspapers, although they show the situation there in one version, in another, like the washington post , here are a few articles, or there is an economist, politics, but this is a big thank you to them for keeping this all in focus, and to those journalists who

do this, i urge you to treat everything and the american media, but that , that journalists work in this direction, keep the european war in focus, this is very important, politicians too, people, citizens, american differently, it depends on their interest in politics in general, on where they live, in which states, in general, if you take gallup polls, such a well-known structure, then the majority of americans, although their it became... a little less there for, well, this is natural attention has decreased a little, but all the same , the majority is in favor of helping ukraine against russian aggression, putin's decisions, even such questions were asked there, and in support of weapons, that is, according to the idea at the moment unpopular for american politicians not to provide such support, it is not popular, but in some states of individual republicans in the south

of america, uh, well, in particular there, in texas partially, i already mentioned louisiana, and uh, somewhere in alabama, and maybe . different states, and it's work, keep in the focus of attention is work, sometimes this focus of attention is set by the opponent, doing another stupidity of some kind, or, well, such crimes as we see from the side of russia, murders of people, and for example man-made disasters like the kakhovskaya station, the nuclear threat has somewhat receded into the background , but the zaporozhye station and its occupation and the problems that arise, times