and there is an opportunity to put pressure on brussels in order to get the desired result, hungary will do everything in its power to get the most for such a vote. mr. oleksandr, you were the ambassador to croatia, croatia borders hungary, one of its borders, what can you say about this people, about its current leadership, what exactly was this referendum organized for, why are the questions so manipulative, and do hungarians come at all? . on similar, similar plebiscites, on similar measures, do they participate in them? well lady, it is clear what the question is this is sent in order to block ukraine, so that there are some arguments in the discussion with kyiv, with brussels, therefore , unfortunately, such wording will contribute to the fact that the majority of those who will participate in the referendum will probably express themselves as

viktor orba actually wants , by the way, the number that will turn out for this survey is also important, if it is within the framework of 15-20%, then it relies very heavily on such a referendum, although it is again consultative, it seems that budapest will not be able to do much, by the way supporting the idea that budapest is trading with brussels. of unfreezing of funds, we have another question and problem, which is what hungary puts forward to us as an ultimatum to resolve the issue regarding the hungarian national minority, i.e. to amend the speech law on education, and they did not give up on this either, so this is part of the relationship on the kyiv-budapest line.

well, it must be said, we are rarely mentioned, but in the mid-90s we gave all these benefits to the hungarian minority, then budapest supported us a lot in the euro-atlantic, european integration field, in bilateral relations, but in fact we ourselves refused from what the agreements reached in the 90s . what is budapest playing at, the deterioration of the state of national minorities is not welcomed by the council of europe and the venice commission, so we have our own argumentation that, unfortunately, recent years have shown that the hungarian minority actually does not know the ukrainian language, does not integrate into ukrainian society, but actually experience. comes to

the place of residence in hungary, this state of affairs is not quite normal, it must be corrected somehow, these are our citizens, meanwhile, this issue, as i understand it, is not yet finished resolved, and in addition to the funds frozen by brussels, this issue is being waved by viktor orbán studio, in fact, the issue is probably not only here, maybe in hungary. mr. ruslan, is it only in it that we may still have, let's say, obstacles in order to receive this, if not so, on december 14 from the council of europe, well, it is obvious that all neighboring countries will put forward, put forward their own, wishes, negotiating positions , obviously, we can give some examples, well, hungary, that is clear, this issue has already been voiced by a colleague, the issue of the minority, the issue of the hungarian language in laws on education, cultural issues and so on, slovakia will insist on in its

list of issues, we see that both slovaks and poles in the part of the economic block of interests are in the discussion, we are already observing the first week of blocking the border of carriers, before that we saw protests farmers, it turns out that ukrainian products are agrarian, ukrainian companies, which are more powerful than small farmers and more competitive, created difficulties for them and forced them to lower the price... competing with ukrainian business, they they see that it is difficult for them, and therefore they demand from their government to create better conditions for themselves, and obviously those forces that are oriented towards them as their electorate have contributed to the support, it was the party of law and justice that took the first place, but in total, it does not have enough votes to form a coalition, it was also the confederation party, but at the same time, if we look at the new coalition of the three parties of poland, they have... psl - polish peasants, who

are also oriented towards farmers, this is part their electorate, they, as members of the coalition will also continue its policy of supporting its target. this means that such romantic support, because we are on the side of good, should not be expected, there will be a rational discussion about mutual interests, about a mutually beneficial partnership, about a joint search for ways to solve the problem, obviously it would be possible to discuss investing in the port infrastructure of poland on the part of ukrainian business, in order to jointly carry out exports, and the grain that enters the polish market went... exclusively in transit and was not distributed on their market, accordingly, by exerting competitive pressure on their players, it could reduce the thousand, and many others, talked about starting a narrow gauge railway on the territory of ukraine, making a hub so that we take the railway directly to the ports, without burdening the existing infrastructure

of poland, etc. that is, the countries bordering us have long-standing issues in the sphere of interests, be it economic, be it political, be it historical, in the sphere of influence. this topic will definitely be raised in the elections, this is an absolutely inevitable story, mr. roman, going back to the plebiscite in hungary, actually to those questions, half of which , we believe, half of them are dedicated to ukraine, actually, what, what is ukraine now doing so much to hungary, orban personally, first of all , calm down a little and understand. that we are talking about a poll, we are not talking about a referendum, not about a plebiscite, we are not talking about something legal, but about the opportunity of the government to find out the opinion of its citizens, well, then we have to see how orbán's party

used this mechanism before, because it not the first survey, we can see how many hungarians usually participate in them and how successfully... orbán's party can use the results of this survey, for example, at the level of the european union, there were surveys, the level of participation, as a colleague said, ranges from 15-20%, and orbán , then at the meetings of the european council, representatives of hungary in the council of ministers of the european union say that this is not our position, this is the position of the entire hungarian people. at the level of the european union, they are already used to such manipulations from the side hungarian government. at the level of the european union, they clearly understand why such polls are conducted, and the attitude towards these polls

is, well, obvious. we in ukraine need to understand that the hungarian people are not our enemy, yes, the hungarian people are not against ukraine... joining the european union, but the fact that, er, the current hungarian government is taking such actions in its own interests, yes, under the guise of the national interests of hungary, this is another issue, which, unfortunately, we cannot influence, just as we do not we can block this survey. next, we are really talking about getting... financial assistance from the european union, and here we have to understand that it is much more profitable for hungary to agree to start accession negotiations with ukraine, because during the negotiations on accession to hungary there will be at least 100 opportunities

to suspend these negotiations and bargain for something from the european union, so... you see, this is not the last decision, unfortunately, on our long road to membership in the european union, so i i am sure that orban, well, practice proves , yes, that they are always political technologists, it is felt, yes, because it is not so much frank, but to ask questions directly, of course, no, it is not similar to our ideas, yes, about european politics, nevertheless, somehow we still want to talk about these issues , it is quite possible, and this is the second aspect, why orban can resort to this poll, to show moscow that they are doing everything they can, that they are ready to block european integration processes, but then

diplomacy also begins here, which we are of course on on your side, we want to help you as much as possible, but you will also understand us, we are being forced in brussels, and therefore we had no other choice but to agree to the opening of negotiations on the membership of ukraine and moldova with the european union, so here it is very difficult to... really, and if the hungarians had such a mechanism to resort to such a survey, then it is obvious that they resorted to it, they get more advantages from this survey, we need, well, we cannot defeat the orven propaganda machine, yes, that's why there is no chance that those people who will take part in the survey will say that we are afraid of ukraine's membership in the european union. but we have to show at the level of the european union that this is the same survey

as was previously conducted in hungary, at the level of ukraine we have to show that this is not the entire hungarian people, and this is not the opinion of hungary, yes, far from all, indeed, yes , and at the level of other member states of the european union, we already need to launch this and that communication company, why? they will benefit from that ukraine is a member , that's right, let's talk about it further, mr. ruslan, you mentioned, for example, several problems that ukraine may face in order to get support, even from its neighbors on its path of integration, and we talked about hungary, there poland, grain, etc., transit, at this stage, if we're talking now in the context of december 14th, when we're supposed to get, well, let's say, the green light to continue our journey with us , there's very little time left to resolve these problems, now on at this stage, it is up to the leadership of the european

union, for example, to communicate with these countries that have claims in order for them to give their yes, whether ukraine can do something else here and now literally there in two weeks, or is everything here just because , what the european commission will propose vonderlein came to ukraine and talked with the ukrainian leadership, i think that including all the bottlenecks were discussed, i think the european commission, which is constantly in communication... with the member countries, well understands the degree of measurement in different countries, who more so, who more, hesitates and needs some additional arguments, either from the european commission or from ukraine, i think that our relevant deputy prime minister also understands the situation and deals with it, here i think, since the discussion is actually , raised by orbán , it is no longer a way to influence ukraine, it is a clear message that they demand... their money, which they consider theirs, and that is why they use this position, it

was not by chance that i drew correlations and analogies with the turkish language, which also in the beginning it looked like she was going to block, but she blocked until she got what she wanted from the nato member countries, in particular the united states, and then she , as we see, gave her positive decision, i think it's similar here situation, here my colleague is absolutely right , i agree with him that... they will raise the stakes in order to reach an agreement with brussels, and at the same time they need to show moscow that, look, we made efforts, as they say, submissive the calf of two mothers sucks, well here a situation when they receive some resources and benefits from moscow, and at the same time continue trade with brussels, they say, well , look, you understand right away that our society supports such a position, but we are ready to turn a blind eye to it, we understand, that this is a stupid vote, but we want to make concessions then. on the part of brussels to explain to our voters that we had to do this, because at the same time they get a second round of such

negotiations, where we will already have shuttle talks already between us, official kyiv and official budapest, there will already be a trade of interests between the two countries, where they will cross their fingers and talk about the same issues of education for hungarians, questions, but that 's later, now it's demands for there is, now it's actually trade with brussels, here we just wanted our viewers to understand this correctly, thank you for that, mr. alexander, but if... we talk, for example, about russian history, in all this, conducting this survey, as far as it can be this one, well , okay, we agreed, we will not call it a plebiscite, we will not call it a referendum, because , as we can see, it will not have any legal consequences, but all the same, to russia, the kremlin, putin personally, and apart from entertainment, this survey can bring some benefit, maybe the results will be ours. well, as the question is formulated

, success is guaranteed there, that is clear, the issue is that there were fewer people who would come out for this survey , meanwhile, well, well, of course, it says that it is not the entire hungarian people, but orbán represents the majority of the hungarian people, because he won and quite convincingly in the elections, that's the whole position for you, you understand and to hope that brussels will give something to hungary there, everything is fine , i would not be complacent, but tell me , please, if hungary blocks us... in the middle of december, then who is to blame, putin, orban, brussels, or someone in ukraine ? you have an answer, if suddenly such a thing happened, the question is normal, yes , is it stubborn, and moscow is to blame, and so on, so they need to work out the question of what he will

block, and that's an option, that's all that's left. it's been a miserable 2.5 weeks there, and in any case , i still have to do it bilaterally it seems that it would be good to do something, ukraine , what can ukraine do in these two weeks, what can it influence, well, this means, it means talking actively with brussels, talking somewhere with budapest and so on, through channels that are diplomatic, that is, not publicly, and so on, and finally find out what, how they will act, because it will be very unfortunate if there is no positive decision, and then you have to understand that orbán is oriented towards moscow and krem, we know this very well, and yes, he took a step to the side there moscow, and then once let us pass, but no,

russia doesn't play like that, you know, russia, if it plays, it plays. seriously, if she gives him something, she gives him seriously , otherwise she can take it away, mr. alexander, may i finally ask a direct question, what is the name of the hook on which russia is holding hungary, that is, at what expense does hungary its political leadership takes such a position about, well, let's say so, about the kremlin, yes, skeptically about ukrainian, what they were offered, it's money, it's resources, literally, here's your opinion for a moment, well it is obvious that the money and resources, the resources are the construction of the second stage of the paksh nuclear power plant, it is somehow 12.8 billion euros, you understand what it is about, what the amount is, but what they finance secretly, we even we don't know exactly what is being financed, and about how much and so on, we can only look at how the forest behaves

and so on, there are no doubts here, but i emphasize, we need to... be ready for this and i would try something else, i would talk to hungary, talk to brussels, that's how it was, shawl michel, here are some things we talked, but i am not convinced by the conclusions there, that we were assured there that everything would be one hundred percent, which would be very good, i would remind my colleague, because he mentions the turkish language, so hungary did not let sweden join nato. you understand, you don't need turkish , but one country is not allowed to join nato, and sweden is not yet in nato, but you can imagine, ukraine is blocked, and ukraine has not started anything since december of this year, well, the situation is not very pleasant, but we were going to it, we understood what it was about and

so we should be ready for a few scenarios in the studio, ugh thanks sir oleksandr, oleksandr levchenko. the extraordinary plenipotentiary ambassador of ukraine to the republic of croatia joined our broadcast in 10-17 years. thanks. mr. roman, we see that mr. oleksandr is quite skeptical about what decision, what decision will be heard, particularly from hungary on december 14-15 in brussels regarding ukraine, regarding its application. your expectations, do we really need to prepare for the worst? well, in my opinion, this is not the first decision that could be blocked by hungary, and it has not happened before, plus, this is not the last decision that is required from hungary on our way to membership in the european union, it is an important stage, no doubt, but it is important more politically, because there is only more and

more work to be done, and problems that will arise at... negotiations , with eu member states and with the european union itself, there will be more and more, so of course we need to work out all possible options, yes, i can't imagine that the decision will be negative if there is a feeling that it is not possible to reach a consensus a positive decision, then this issue will be postponed, yes, because there will be no refusal to start negotiations, this decision can be postponed, and this will be the worst option for us, of course, that we, we have to be ... and what , how can it be worse? please explain the postponement to what period then, is it to march, to april,

when we are actually waiting for a framework for negotiations? well, right away it will be difficult to talk about terms, we are generally talking about a hypothetical scenario that i personally like it seems unlikely, because practice says otherwise and previous actions. hungary, they say something else, but we must understand that we will still have to negotiate with hungary, we will have to take unpopular steps, in particular in terms of guaranteeing and expanding the rights of the hungarian minority in ukraine, and follow the recommendations of the venice commission that are given to us . too burdensome, it's all possible, it's just that we have to move gradually, yes, i mentioned in the last broadcast that macedonia even had to change its name

to north macedonia, in principle we do not have such a difficult situation yet , you are absolutely, absolutely right, it is a very difficult process, it is a very long process, and with hungary we will still have a lot of problems, but, well, in my opinion, but in such cases... hungary will not vote as a single state, because nato has a slightly different situation there, that's right, mr. roman, you perfectly, perfectly bridged the bridge to our next topic, now we'll just talk about it, about our path, not only to the european union, to and of the north atlantic alliance, mr. roman, we will return to you now, mr. ruslan, here we see, before the path to the european union, we have outlined the problems that ukraine may face and which may have to be solved along the way. promises, we understand that in the issue of the north atlantic alliance there are certain compromises that are already being proposed, at least by the previous leaders of nato, yes, in particular, about

partial entry into the alliance, even despite the war, yes, let's say, will there be a way, let's start with the general question, the path to nato is more difficult, for example, than our path to of the european union, or is it simply different , for example, and here you can’t compare, in your opinion, it is definitely more difficult there, because... in the presence of military conflicts on the territory of a potential member, this actually makes the process impossible, well, according to the statute, yes, that’s why , what the former manager proposed, actually, apparently, as such an idea , yes, that is, he is not authorized, i am convinced, neither are any parties, but what they are talking about is not public, but he dared to say it publicly, it is actually an attempt to look at reaction, and whether ready for alternative searches for answers? on the history with the way, because in the given circumstances, until the war is stopped, it is impossible to talk about security and security guarantees for ukraine, and we have a war and we

need security, it turns out that those who could provide it, will not be given due to the presence of war, and there is still a deadlock situation that needs to be resolved somehow, actually what rasmosen voiced was actually an attempt to measure the public mood, because unfortunately, in ukraine we also had... an internal propaganda, which was justified there in the first months, that everything is fine with us, everything will be successful, the swine-dogs will lose, and in yalta we will wash our feet in the black sea in a little while, but we can also see from the column of the commander-in-chief mr. valery zuluzhny , that we have a serious need for a whole list of resources, equipment, ammunition, so that we can once again dominate the theater of operations, at the moment we do not have it, we are dependent on our partners, so here the question is... agreements are in at any rate, until we ourselves acquired the capacity to cover own expenses, we are talking only about armaments, we understand that we have a 45% hole

in the budget in terms of revenues for the next year, which we will also cover through loans and borrowing of non-refundable aid, and all this indicates that today we have to think about how to acquire our own ability to solve our problems, because today we are actually completely dependent on our partners and here, whether we like it or not, we have to negotiate with them, agree on positions, if they differ from ours, then it is necessary to work with motives , to create interest in them, to support our position , understanding that we live in a democracy, and especially our western partners, they are dependent on public sentiment, which means that it is necessary to work on public opinion in the countries of our partners, because from what the voters think will depend on what their government or president will think, if they have a presidential form, it all matters, we understand that next year we have 40 different elections in different countries of the world that will have an impact, and how electoral process on the behavior of the government and possibly a change of government

as a result of the exercise of will, and all this will affect how events will unfold in ukraine, so the war is going on here, in our country, but how it will end depends on how we come to an agreement with the western coalition, which supports us today, so i would not consider european integration as a separate puzzle , nato as a separate puzzle, it is necessary to understand that today we have a geopolitical conflict between the axis of evil, which is there, iran, the russian federation , north korea, their puppets there, hezbollah. hamas and so on, other terrorist organizations that create points of uncertainty and a sense of a future that is not under control, on the one hand, on the other hand, a democratic world that upholds the principles of freedom, rights and the rule of law, and here they are fighting for the rules games, and these are fighting for the strong to dictate the conditions to the weak, some for the law, some for the concept, yes, well, it is very reminiscent of a hawker on the street,

to simply... understand the average viewer, here is where we see the russian federation and andko. mr. roman, if i recall this one a proposal from rasmusin that ukraine can join the alliance, but partially without the territories currently occupied, occupied during the war by the russian federation. it's just that when, when reading this quote for the first time, i remembered that rasmussen was actually very skeptical about ukraine's membership in the alliance even during his vote, here is such a twist. did he come up with this idea himself, or maybe someone suggested this idea to him, and then the question arises, why, as far as i understand, it is not about the introduction of the part ukraine's entry into nato is taking place as a state in the international, so mr. roman, and we are silent about the fact that rasmussen himself violates with his proposal, in fact, the very statute of the organization he once headed, uh, yes, well, the idea

is to. .. according to the fifth article applied only to the territory of ukraine, which is controlled by the ukrainian government, and did not apply to the temporarily occupied territories of ukraine. it is very difficult to write out, frankly, even from a legal point of view to write it down, well, how do we write out this line of collision along which this line will pass the limit at which article five applies. er, on which the article of piata does not apply, in theory, well, you know , this is a very creative approach to international legal obligations, it seems to me that the states will not go for it, rasmussen wants to offer at least something with this proposal, at least some solution

in order to... end this active phase of hostilities on the territory of ukraine, as they say, stop the war, er, then sit down, negotiate, determine how to coexist in the new geopolitical conditions, yes, because this proposition establishes that one is sovereign a state may commit an act of aggression against another sovereign state. you are a part of its territory and to recognize this territory as yours, yes, well, this is a terrible dream for absolutely all lawyers, internationalists and modern geopoliticians, because then power becomes decisive for us again, and in principle, well, we could agree on this, right at the beginning march 2022 , early april 2022, and then it is unclear.