they will try to save face in any weather and keep a certain distance, despite the fact that yes, in this case, this situational rapprochement of these russia and arab countries, well, obviously. ugh. we continue to talk about what is happening now in israel and in the gas sector, in particular, the third phase of the tzagal ground operation. what to expect from her and how she develops in general. the course of hostilities, mr. igor, well, what can we expect from it, the continuation of bombings, murders and actually a lot of blood on both sides, that is, in principle we have not expected anything new for the past two months, and it is obvious that this war is dragging on essentially for the whole winter, and by the way, this is not typical for the region, that the armed conflict has been going on for so long, we have never analyzed the consequences. long

-term conflict in the middle east, because these wars lasted, well, how long was israel's lebanon war, how long did it last, mr. igor, well, it was already an active phase of the war there , it was there for several weeks, yes, but up to a month then it was already such a positional one war, yes, that is, when the israeli troops were on the lebanese territory there for a long time, well, i am not talking about southern lebanon, in this case there are active hostilities. that is, it is really not characteristic of the israeli strategy of waging wars, short-term wars that do not fundamentally affect the economy, since they do not create economic pressure, and accordingly, you do not draw out the economy of a large number of men. in this case, we still see that the war continues, yes it means. as from one

side of the complexity of this war, it is clear that a war in the city is not a war somewhere in the fields , even there, a war on the west bank, but i would say that here it is very similar to such an exhausting one, that is, i could compare all of us, remember you see the first antifada , the first antifada that... had the character of such non-violent palestinian resistance for a long time, and in the end it also significantly over there for several years it undermined the israeli economy, it seriously affected the situation inside the country, and on security situation, well, on serious criticism from the european, and generally the world community, israel's position, and this is where israel may find itself.

actually in a similar situation, but much faster , because he is conducting active hostilities, and many people are already comparing israel itself and the war in israel with the fact that the russians are conducting a war, and you don’t even have to go far, here recently one the israeli general, explaining the long, long war in gaza and the necessity of bombings, bombings, for example, bandages. connected it with mariuple and said that the russian army too bombed mariupol for a long time, so in principle there are a lot of such interesting moments here, and the further the criticism will grow, and it is obvious that these are critical times for israel , well actually from the point of view of international support for this war. and to what extent does israel need international support for this war, if the united states supports it in this situation? and the arab countries

are practically neutral, you noticed that during putin's visit to saudi arabia and the emirates, neither the saudi nor the emirates did not even use the situation to talk so loudly about gas , only the president of iran spoke about it, not an arab, without a doubt, without a doubt, i do not think that now the arab countries, understanding that the actual conversation with putin about gas from the point of view real influence of russia on this situation'. something can give, and it is clear that we are talking about the united states of america, but the situation in the united states of america is also changing, as far as possible based on the same israeli press that is critical, well, from that part of the israeli press that is critical of netanyahu him there you can at least clearly understand that the americans are also running out of patience from the point of view of what they want to see, what...

will be after the end of the war, what will be the peace after the end of the war, and this is not there, because of the lack of a clear and understandable position that would put full stop and gave a perspective for the palestinian population, not only from gaza , but also from the west bank, that is, at least it opened up the possibility of changes in the future, that's more than anything, ugh, we unfortunately lost contact with mr. igor, unexpectedly, but i i believe that he said what we wanted to hear, he said that there is no such picture of the future, by the way, there is no picture of the future in the russian-ukrainian war either. him, that's the biggest problem of all these conflicts, but we'll talk about that after commercials, so stay tuned and we'll continue our dialogue with christina. problems with the joints

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two hours of air time, two hours of your time, two hours to learn about the war and... the living world, two hours to keep up with economic and sports news, two hours in the company of your favorite presenters, presenters who have become familiar to many , as well as distinguished guests of the studio, events of the day in two hours, vasyl zema's big broadcast, a project for intelligent and those who don't care, in the evening for espresso. channel espresso and ukrainian pen present the project of their own name with myroslava barchuk. a series of conversations with ukrainian and western intellectuals. who interpret and comment on the most relevant public discussions, which news will be analyzed by the guests of the project this week and actually who will be the guest of the studio, we will find out already this sunday, clearly, the topics will be relevant, the guests will be special, their own names with myroslava barchuk, sunday 17:10 on

espresso.

we continue the saturday political club, vitaly portnikov, and khrystyna yatskiv. yes, my favorite part of our program, to be honest, is when you can ask questions and hear comprehensive answers to them all. actually, the president of venezuela, now let's look a little bit into latin america, nicolas maduro, who is well known, in particular to ukrainians, for his friendship, and... in general for his support of putin's policy, signed six decrees on the annexation of a part of neighboring guyana. let me just remind you that we are talking about the essequibo region, in which in 2015, if i am not mistaken, such rather specific deposits of energy resources were found, it began

development of this whole story, american campaigns were involved, by the way, in the development, but venezuela historically does not recognize these territories as guyanese. to the british colony , and even with this the venezuelans do not agree, in fact , this was allegedly shown on december 4 at the referendum that was held recently. the population of venezuela itself , by the way, i do not know what this referendum showed, and whether it was held among the population of this region itself, why, if they believe that this is our crimea, why hold a referendum, although the russians held a referendum in crimea, however, they occupied it before that, well, since venezuela was not able to occupy it, it does not hold a referendum there, by the way, i have to tell you that the khayanites were placed on one of the hills against the background of this referendum.

removed the flag of guyana and placed the flag of venezuela there, because they consider themselves an integral part of the venezuelan people. well, in general , you need to understand one important thing. in principle: territorial disputes between the countries of latin america have been going on for two centuries in a row. it seems to us that it is stable continent, stability. there is none there, uh, fierce wars have been going on between the countries of latin america for all these 200 years, you know that in one of these wars 2/3 of the population of paraguay died, 2/3 of the population, imagine the scale of these wars, which simply from we are very far away, so we do not dwell on it, another great example is bolivia, which was cut off from the sea by neighboring countries, and it left a maritime academy on one of the high... mountain lakes, and there it continues to receive, finance, in it has a navy which

is training on this lake, ugh, admirals , sailors, everything is kept in the hope that sooner or later bolivia will return to its territory at sea, which for all other countries is the sovereign territory of the republic of chile, ugh, and again i will not be a large number to give examples, because if you have a little bit of each country there... look at it , maybe there are no such conflicts between the so conventional portuguese-speaking and spanish-speaking worlds of latin america, because all the portuguese-speaking colonies have united in brazil, it is a federated country that united as states all the territories that had previously been part of portuguese influence, the spanish influence led to the fact that the whole of spanish-speaking latin america... broke into different countries, and in addition, the last part of spanish-speaking america, mexico, which had

territorial conflicts with the united states, as you know, a third of the united states is former mexico, including texas, california, and others, the states on the border with the mexican united states, that's what they're called, the conflict over the... that started about 1800 14, and this too clearly, venezuela was a spanish possession, ugh, then there were dutch possessions, then there were british possessions, the british united their territories due to the fact that they bought some territories or received from the dutch, the spanish, latin america did not recognize this and believed that that these dutch territories just belong to their sphere of influence, a clear

border between the colonies of great britain and spain, and between independent venezuela and british guiana, as this territory was called, never was, after all, this the conflict was settled, as it were , along existing borders. now, however, venezuela continued to believe that this was not a final settlement of the conflict. during the time of hugo chávez , in principle, there were very warm relations between the two countries, because it must be understood that both venezuela and guyana, as strange as it sounds, are governed by left-center parties, it's just that in venezuela there is now one such a large left-center party, in guyana there are two , because there is a party that is oriented towards the population. of indian origin, there is a party which focuses on the population of african origin, and they change

each other in power, but in principle, their ideologies are very similar, this is the famous story of the struggle between the founders of modern guyana, burnham and jagan, jagan was the leader of the national party, and burnham decided that he wanted to fight for power, and the only thing he could rely on was not the african population, he took the africans out of this party, ruled guyana there for 20 years, then... the change of leaders began constantly from one party to another, it just wasn't the only one from parties of influence, and it is clear that ugachaves did not want to quarrel with them, and even. led his organizations petrocari, which allowed guyana to buy venezuelan oil at domestic prices, as, say, putin does with belarus, but then they really found oil and here of course in venezuela they mentioned that the border was not fixed, and the guyanas immediately turned to the un international court of justice, to put an end to this story once and for all

, venezuela does not recognize the jurisdiction of the international court, and here the question arises, what is next for the referee. crimea, but there is no border, and on the map ukrainian crimea is ukraine, it’s just that we recognize it as international, in the nsl it is not recognized as international, it’s like russia, but just russia on the contrary, so to speak, russia has control over the annexed territory, and venezuela does not has control, but has a map and has a governor, like us, here

is a hybrid moment, that is, it behaves like russia, and has control like us, but everyone is watching the situation. they think, well, what will he do tomorrow, because guyana has an army of 800 people, and venezuela has one of the largest strong armies of latin america, and besides , the favorite child of any venezuelan regime, well, hochavis was a military man, the presidents of venezuela were military men for a very long time, this is a serious force, well , for guyana, it is definitely a serious force, what to do if venezuela occupies 2/3 the territory of guyana, this must also be understood. guyana and essequibo, essequiba , is 2/3 of the territory of guyana, and there are almost no people living there, so what else is the focus, here we are, and how will guyana exist, as it existed, and will exist, because the majority of the population of guyana does not live on the territory of essequibo, these are forests, but it has access to the shelf, to oil. another moment, if it occupies this territory, thus

changing the border where venezuela, guyana and brazil meet. brazil does not want, as we now understand, any bloody confrontation about borders or redistribution of borders, it is in their interests that all this happens in a non-violent way, that is why they now take more sides, as we understand, guyanese and from the received states, and from here converge, so to speak, interests in the region, of course, not everyone wants to at all something was happening that would again violate international law, besides guilt. forget it, there is already an opportunity to extract oil there, uh, this opportunity arose there almost four years ago, now there are already large global companies that can extract this oil, and again they appeared in september,

and now it is november, and december already , december, so it's december, what does it mean that exsonmobil is there, i think that the people who represent the interests of exmobil, they can ask questions and in the state department in the pentagon, to drill or not to drill, what to do, you you will protect our investments, which are internationally legitimate, we are not doing anything illegal, there is a sovereign state, there is the permission of its government, for operations, we should do these operations or not, what will you do if venezuela takes over. well, maybe it wouldn't be like that for us . well, there is a serious problem here, which, of course

, would be relevant, if it weren't for our war, but imagine, the war in ukraine is already there. hundreds of days, however, the war in israel on the territory of the gas sector has been tens of days, and there will be a third war in latin america, and the states will not be able to to ignore, of course, to say , well, they captured essequibo and everything, the states are already not in the west from nicolas maduro, it was believed that in the end it was possible to settle the situation in a historic way, because the president of venezuela agreed to fair elections. and everyone thought, what will he do after such an agreement, he will lose the election? no, except ours, or absolutely optional. if the elections will take place against the background of a small victorious war, i... hope nicolas maduro, then he can win these elections, and the regime can collapse. we remember that a very similar situation was with the argentine

generals who believed that they were losing popularity with the population and that elections would have to be held soon, sooner or later, and general leopoldo gelzieri, the last head of the penultimate argentine military administration, decided that he would hold a small victory battle for falkland. ugh hundreds of thousands of kilometers from great britain itself, its troops. and as you know, he ran into margaret thatcher, who was absolutely convinced that it had to be done, until things, there was huge opposition to this in british public opinion, everyone believed that the process of decolonization had already taken place, that the falklands should be forgotten, that great britain should not send its own. its fleet to such a huge distance, because it is no longer an empire anyway, but margaret thatcher was based on the issue of legitimacy, that is, relatively speaking, if we negotiate with someone legitimately about independence, about the transfer of this

territory, as was the case later with hong kong , if you remember, this is one story, if they simply impose their will on us by force, then we we have to defend ourselves, uh, and also there was another important point, that argentina considered the falkland islands as its malvinas , but the population of the territory wanted to live as part of the... uh, there were no people there who wanted to be part of argentina. i, by the way, we do not know if they are in sskiba. and in that situation, margaret thatcher made a decision that buried the argentine military, as a political factor, because whatever the argentines thought, they said about them afterwards, but at the time of the war, you know, they were very popular, uh . the junta acquired popularity among the population , general galtieri was considered a national hero there, the argentines do not remember it much, but these days, until the british fleet arrived, there was such a patriotic hysteria,

because you have to understand, the argentines never thought and do not think that this british territory, if you think that any of the argentinians now think that this is british territory, no, they just have to reckon with international law and force, if you will, but that. that this is argentina, everyone in argentina is sure of it, just like everyone else in russia, who think about crimea, that it is ours, and it is exactly the same, i assure you, in venezuela, one way or another, people may simply not want to, may not consider that this territory of sakib is worth war, but they have no doubt that this is their territory, this is the big problem of these territorial claims, they can exist, most people, as a rule, think, well, it is ours, historically, politically, but not to fight. for that matter, until an idiot comes along and says, "no, i'm ready to fight, general galzieri, putin or maduro." and then it turns out that the population says: "well, go to war." because this, that is

, there is no doubt that it is right, that it is ours, the discussion is only about how much war is necessary, and an ordinary person can't send an army to win back what it considers its own, but if someone sends for him, someone makes that decision? galchieri, maduro and putin, it's absolutely normal, by the way, this is where those who think that putin's regime could be undermined if russia loses crimea, because for the majority it will be absolutely obvious to the russians that putin has lost territory that should have been russian, ugh, and that may be a problem with how well the regime can explain to its citizens what happened, but we understand that the russians will continue to be there. to wait for the return of crimea, let's say, putin's regime will fall, and what does this mean that russia will want to give up crimea, no, it

can simply consider that it has not reached, has not reached a situation in which it can be returned, but most people will consider that putin made a huge mistake if he did not hold back crimea, which will have to be returned later, ugh, they will win. those politicians who will know how to do it, how to destabilize ukraine, that's just what we're doomed to do, well , you see, i'm saying it again, for 200 years venezuela argued with guyana, regarding this territory, now the time has come, ugh, when the referendum was held and the official inclusion of escequib in the composition of venezuela took place, now the question arises, is maduro going to lose the election, or does this mean that the next president of venezuela will issue a decree that will... so cancel maduro's decision? no, you know how with brexit british, that is, everyone who came may have understood that this is not

the best idea, but what to do? decisions that are not retroactive, they can be changed by force, but this will not change them legally, we have to talk about this legally from the point of view of the country in which they are passed, from the point of view of venezuela on the example of guyana, finally we can do this homework, you said that you agree that it will be very difficult for the next president of venezuela to reverse maduro's decree, and for the next president of russia, it will be it is easy to cancel the decision not presidential

maduro though. did not conduct it through the parliament, he conducted it exclusively through his referendum and his decree, so it is still possible to work with it somehow, but what happened with russia and ukraine is a constitutional right of russia and a constitutional right of ukraine , the constitutional law of ukraine, which clearly says, the autonomous republic of crimea, sevastopol, ugu, donetsk, luhansk, kherson and zaporizhia regions, among those territories that are part of ukraine, and this is still internationally recognized, yes, and we say, this is a fact. there is a constitutional law of russia that says the same thing: the republic of crimea, sevastopol, the donetsk people's republic, the luhansk people's republic, kherson oblast, zaporozhe oblast, subjects of the russian federation, this is the constitutional right of russia, we say, well, what does it matter, it is not recognized by any country in the world, well, it is not recognized, and how does this affect the essence of russia's constitutional law after russia even recognized the priority of its own legislation over its international obligations, well, when in

its... constitution doesn't even have a real clause anymore that would allow us to cancel the decisions that were made by the russian parliament, the president and confirmed by the constitutional court of the russian federation, so no way, so imagine the best option for us, we liberated our entire territory, put there are border posts. joined nato and the european union, let's imagine this, we don't have a war with the russian federation, what does the constitution of the russian federation look like, did they change it or not? no, they didn't change her, she did after all, it looks like this now, according to their constitution, kherson is still theirs, and why is kherson, probably zaporizhzhia is theirs, by the way, this is similar to ssykibo, mika, how can it be, they do not control zaporizhzhia, neither does maduro

. the whole state of venezuela and it doesn't care, you see, okay, what about their constitution, we really have to care about it, and the world has to care about it, we may not care, and the world may not care, but we are, we have there is a neighboring state, er, nearby, which considers part of our territory as its own, even if she does not control her, what kind of relationship we have, a strained relationship. well, let's take japan. japan believes that its northern territories are occupied by the russian federation. what kind of relationship? there is no peace treaty after 1945 between japan and russia, none. there are no real relations that would allow japanese companies to invest in russia and the like and the like. this is always done very carefully. well, that, but this, this is small.

pieces of territory and still in the sea, it is not there, there is no dry border on land, when between japan and russia used to have a land border on the island of sakhalin, everything was even worse, but it is gone now, well, how does it basically affect our future life, we basically have a closed border, or we agree that russia can do that, well like georgia. de facto agreed, that russia controls abkhazia, south ossetia, but russian citizens have a visa-free regime to georgia, tourism is more important than all these things, they somehow trade there, have, well, they have direct air connections, they have diplomatic relations, by the way , anyway, they already have everything, even diplomatic relations cannot be restored because these territories do not allow, well, but we are in a worse situation, as you understand, because...