with whom blackmail, let's say so, and in general he was close to the issue of the defense and territorial integrity of states, which he also saw in the format of ukraine, let's say this issue resonated, that's why he also actively supported, plus the close relations of glatemalia with the united states, for example , here and in this context they would also interact, so it is precisely at the expense of how you see in general what i also wanted to say in the previous answer that latin american countries are countries of contact... diplomacy, in order for them to to bend one's side, it is very important to really communicate, to convince, to establish some personal connections, here and there, because there are many of these questions, what they have, what role they have, and in this way, hotomalo became a really close friend of ukraine, forced you to interrupt, excuse me, please, i would very much like to talk about the relationship between the bolivarian republic of venezuela and the cooperative republic of guyana, but i'm running out of time, but i would ask my... colleagues who

are sitting in the hardware room right now to remember you and maybe in a week, two or three to return, to talk about latin america, as well as the consequences of the ukrainian president's visit there. thank you, ivan fychko, an expert of the latin american and caribbean research program of the ukrainian prizma foreign policy council, was in touch with us. now we are returning to europe. dmytro tuzhansky, our frequent guest, why is he frequent, because we have not about... these relations, for example, with hungary, he is an expert on these issues, he is an expert on ukrainian-hungarian relations and the director of the institute of central european strategy, good health, mr. dmytro, thank you for finding time for us and finding time for us very often, thank you for that, well, let 's talk, and what are hungarians dissatisfied with now, well, it seems that there are already... some promotions, already there

with education, somehow ukraine is making some concessions, even if it is smiling and everything is fine, and orban continues to say that it is not enough, this is me switching to the language of mr. orban's great friend mr. putin, it is not enough, the fact is that ukraine was never the reason, we have always been a hostage, the question of hungarian rights national minorities it was an excuse. first, orbán used us to try to restart his relationship with the united states. and if you look at these archival materials that have become available, there according to the results, by the way, of the impeachment case, then the key topic of that meeting, the dream meeting of viktor orbán with donald trump and the visit of the hungarian leader to the white house for the first time there, there are different calculations , in almost 10 years, it was in... and now we are a hostage

because viktor orbán is trying to use ukraine, well, he uses ukraine itself , in his, i would call it a war, a political war with brussels, with the european commission, personally with the president ms. ursula, and in the same way as the map in the elections to the european parliament, where viktor orban is, that's what i'm saying now about his motives, it is not necessary that this will happen, i hope that it will not happen. but such a kind of rematch should take place, that is, he has to come to power, or i don’t know, to come to power rather ambitiously, but nevertheless viktor orban really hopes that these conservatives are european, trumpists are european, they will win, if he will probably win, he hopes for a victory in his parliamentary time, and they just want to forge this victory through anti-ukrainian rhetoric, through anti-war...

rhetoric, rhetoric against the mainstream parties, well, that's it, okay, well, in principle, which the world that the world dreams of, mr. orbán, we can imagine it, he wants everything to be in europe, well, okay, conservatives, friendship with russia, but where are the magyars, where is hungary, well, this is the world i will wake up good question, that's how viktor orbán uses this term hungarian model, well, in general, it seems to me that we are dealing with such a disappointed, once romantic, but now a cynic, a populist who wants to prove to everyone that he is right, so listen to me, i am the smartest, i am right, here , i don't rule out that... there are ambitions

there, well, almost to become one of the leaders, the leaders of the european union, well, maybe not the european parliament, but that 's what it looks like now. everything is somehow very, very sad and looks like a person, i don't know, so deeply traumatized, well, he is experiencing such a thing prime time, has the opportunity to take revenge on everyone , you know, in which cartoons, like, you know , well, then he looks like putin, here i agree with you, and trump, it’s such a psychiatric situation, i just wonder why, that’s why that i was in the 90s... when there was still the first government of reformers who actually broke away from hungary, it was very progressive, much more progressive than poland, than estonia, than the czech republic. i spoke then, i spent a lot of time with geza yasinsky, there was such and such a minister of foreign affairs, and he looked so absolutely

a european, a pro-ukrainian , suspicious of russia, the soviet union, remembered the year 1956, well, in short, anti... such a communist, and here suddenly such a transformation with this orban, i absolutely cannot understand here, but this struggle, to what extent, how realistic is it, well , well, okay, they have now deconfessed these 10 billion, according to the guardian, the guardian wrote that the european commission will unlock 10 billion for hungary, that is why they suddenly decided to make concessions, that is, it is on orban made concessions, so he's doing something... began to talk less or why? well, look, in fact there are many coincidences , but there is a common context, that is, of course , the european commission declares that no, we do not give this money in order, well, as a bribe, actually to orban, that he supported the proposed decisions of the summit on december 14, 15, at the same

time, it must be understood that viktor orbán works on several such fronts and according to several types of plans, so the unfreezing of funds is... the responsibility of tibor navrachych, who was a european commissioner who remained because of the christian democrats in the european the people's party, where fidesz actually came from, this is how they work, that's how i think , well really, look at orban's temperament , well, trump, even more so, but also putin, but it seems to me that after all, orban, well at least in his interests, there is a problem, you know, in his interests, pragmatic, most cynical interests. not to burn these bridges across ukraine, especially now, yes, if you block something until closer to the european elections, that is, there is this hope in fact of this pragmatic orban, yes , there is a small one, there is money, even more so, this part, well, this is, you know, this is a coincidence

, but this is part of the deal, that is, if you see from the guardian leak, it is still december 12, yes, that is, these backroom negotiations with orbán, they are ongoing, they are ongoing. if you saw in argentina , volodymyr zelenskyi had a quick conversation with him, all these are actually very correct steps, but you need to understand in advance that viktor orban wants to block the opening of negotiations with ukraine, wants to bully the european commission, bully all his critics, well, lastly send actually ukraine, although he can also impose on us, here, but we have to convince him, a chance, it seems to me. remains, viktor orban himself does not know whether, well , he has not yet made a final decision, he is a politician who makes final decisions in such moments, in an hour, in two, yes, and he can turn everything upside down, in fact, you you will understand, until november 5-8, hungary

for 10 years, viktor orban said that he is for the european integration of ukraine, for ukraine's entry into the eu and nato, for the expansion of the eu and nato, their current european commissioner in the european commission, that's it. on enlargement, well , a representative of a country that is against enlargement cannot be the european commissioner for enlargement, you understand, that is, we have one , well, let's put it this way, an opponent, a client with whom we are dealing, look, mr. dmytro, well, you can imagine, because i am absolutely convinced that among our viewers there are people who say that he should be kicked out of the european union, that they are messing with him there. yes , i have a question for you, then, mr. dmytro, expel, not expel, but a strict tone, brussels can take, say that, listen, guys, well, well, if you behave like this, you force us to simply remove this uniformity in voting, we

will take some option there 2/3, 3/4, 4/5, and we will not pay attention to you and will sit on the sidelines in europe and that's it. and we won't give money later, well, look, everything goes to that, but the problem is that orbán is cunning, and orbán is faster than the european commission, that is, until december 15-14. no one will be able to do this, it is generally a question of whether it will be possible to do it, because the deepening, the so-called deepening of european integration is now receiving there is considerable opposition within the eu, to the elections in the european parliament, to the new european commission, this will definitely not happen, so you know, obviously it all goes to that, orban is provoking it, not only orban, but here the question is our interests, ukrainian interests, are we ready to wait at least a year to open negotiations with us, so here it is, so we have to... rely more on political talks, on political talks with orbán,

macron tried, i hope that he will not be the only one to try, and i hope that these attempts, well let them not have such, you know, momentary result, macron met, had dinner with orbán last thursday, this thursday, so we have a week, we have to work, everyone has to work, i know that such work is actually going on, i think there will be details later. well, many , many meetings, well, we have to fight to the end , in fact, and even if orban blocks the opening of negotiations now, he won't be able to hold this veto, well, i don't know forever, and to be honest, it won't be a defeat for ukrainian diplomacy, it will rather be a defeat for european diplomacy, you know, if they they treated orban so lightly all these years and did not find a tool to influence him with this eu model, if not bureaucratic, then... political, well, excuse me, ukraine, which is not a member of the eu, how can we influence him, we

have actually done our task, well , let’s move on, i know there are still meetings to be held, mr. dmytro, in order to bridge the bridge from argentina to podgorica, and this visit of mr. zelenskyi, there is the same orban and the same macron in buenos aires, and many more leaders for the inauguration. and there is no macron, well, less so, in short, there are many leaders there, it can somehow somehow advance this ukrainian cause, well, look, there literally, if i’m not mistaken, there for three to five minutes, just as viktor orban and volodymyr zelensky talked face to face in the argentine parliament, well you know, i can't read lips , but it seems they had a good conversation, well, you just have to understand, you know, that viktor orbán is such a politician, i say, he will push to the end,

he himself hesitates, and what am i for i am worried that this feeling, the desire for revenge, could be viktor's orbana, well, if it were to capture, that is, that is what does not motivate now, because if you take all the rationals, not only what he said before, even as of now, all the rational arguments are in favor of whether to vote for... the opening of negotiations with ukraine, whether to vote against it, after all, it is in the interests of hungary to vote for it, and it is tactically in the interests of orbán to vote for it, but i see in him this kind of, well, i say, a desire for revenge, a desire to impose, well, first of all not to us, once again, mrs. ursula, to the european commission, to all these mainstream people european politicians, in whom he was disappointed and who, i don't know, tried to isolate him there. you me, you gave me a fantastic idea, it should

be proposed to the united nations that you before the election of any president or prime minister, there was some kind of revenge test, because you when you say revenge, i look at trump, everyone says it's revenge, he's taking revenge on someone, fico, now the new prime minister of slovakia, taking revenge, taking revenge, putin, taking revenge. for i don’t know, for something, for orban’s backyard childhood in leningrad, that is, it is such a danger, you know, vindictiveness is a very dangerous trait for the future of the planet earth, i apologize for such, such pathos. i would like to thank dmytro tuzhanskyi, the director of the institute of central european strategy and an expert on ukrainian-hungarian relations. thank you, mr. dmitry, we will now talk about the fact that in these... days, i don't remember if it is exactly today, but i understand for sure that it is the first

decade of december, exactly, 75 years ago the universal declaration of human rights appeared, and today, i am told by my ear, it is good to have it in my ear someone who can tell me, that's right , a lot of people in the world and countries in the world, well , i... somehow rely on this declaration, respect it, understand that it's done correctly, it's the 48th, as far as i remember year, this means that just... after the second world war, which violated all laws, humanistic, humanitarian, humane, humane, humanity decided that it was necessary to somehow organize in such a way that there would not be such massive violations of anti-humanistic direction, and as a result of all this, it means that there was this general declaration, and we

let's go, i hope he is already in touch, serhiy petukhov. senior lecturer of the department of international law of the kyiv-maglyan academy, former deputy minister of justice with us, thank you mr. serhiy for finding time for us. good evening, glad to be with you. well , look, let's definitely talk about the beautiful country of russia, which violates, it seems, every point of the universal declaration of human rights. and as far as we can imagine, well... i'm not talking about punishment, ukrainians would all like to punish it, but this is exactly the declaration, the same as the declaration of budapest, that we declare that we respect ukrainian integrity and will help ukraine if someone attacks it, and where is this declaration, as well as the general declaration of human affairs, right,

i understand that there is no council for this, declaration. human rights is a non-binding document , as its name suggests, it is a declaration: states have agreed on what rights belong to people, regardless of where they live, what they look like, what political views, gender, age and so on and so on and so similar, in this sense , there is no direct responsibility for the violation of the declaration, but in addition to the declaration, which is optional, a number of conventions have been adopted on various... issues in the field of human rights, which are binding, in particular on russia, and for the violation of which it is prescribed international responsibility of the state. another thing is that russia, as a permanent member of the un security council, can block any decision of the un security council that it does not like. and in this sense, we live in a world that is built on the results of the second

world war, where the victorious countries prescribed the statute of o. in such a way as to have the right of veto on all issues that interest them, and here our task, on the one hand, is very difficult, and on the other hand, it is ripe, and many states share the opinion that this world order is unfair, it no longer corresponds to the state of international relations that we have today, which cannot be such that five countries, no matter how big they are, no matter what their role was in the second world war, could ... take any decision that is beneficial or necessary for the international community, that is why ukraine leads such a gradual struggle and a consistent line that says that russia, as the main violator of international law today, should not have a veto in the un security council, should be responsible for violations of people's rights

in ukraine, as well as in other countries and within russia. and so, in fact, for example, we are cooperating with the international criminal court, which has already issued an arrest warrant for putin, and we hope to see him in a cage in a courtroom in gaza. look, mr. sergey, i have such a strange question for you, i think, i think for some reason, maybe i am a naive person, i a really naive person, that somewhere in the world there are lawyers, maybe over a beer, or maybe just at a table without... champagne, they discuss what the planet earth might look like, well, because we can't imagine, well, we can't imagine, we see, we we feel imperfection in ourselves, and what could be perfection, well, that is, all the same , a person has in his head some kind

of some kind of state, something of a state, that there should be an areopachus, there will be some... people, they will have some policemen who these policemen will do something for violations they will be arrested , the prosecutor's office will file, the prosecutor's office will sue, the prosecutor and the lawyer will sit in the court, and there will be a competition, and then, that means, we will say that this gabon is guilty, from small gabon to huge russia, it doesn't matter, she is also guilty, and somehow they have her there, well, she can't be sent to... prison, there is no such prison that 146 million russians, or how many of them there are, can put all of them in prison, but imagine, such an ideal the world is very difficult, it is at all possible. indeed , the world is not perfect, and wars continue in the world all the time, as long as we remember in history, and at the moment, the war in ukraine is not the only one

, and unfortunately, the world community cannot stop such wars at the moment, but nothing is impossible, what you are talking about, for example, already implemented on the european continent, just as a reaction to the horrors of the second world war, and a real desire and... not to repeat it, led to the fact that the european states agreed to give up part of their sovereignty, transfer part of their powers to brussels, to joint bodies , such as the european parliament, the european council, and continue to live in peace and quarrel only on twitter, in interviews, but not to fight for them, and as we can see, since the second world war, this is an example of success on the european... continent, so that inside the european union, not that there were no armed conflicts during this time or wars, but even serious disputes that could not be resolved,

that is why ukraine wants to join this club of european civilized states in order to ensure its security and normal cooperation with states, similar associations, there are territorial and regional ones in other parts of the world, but nowhere have they yet reached such a level of integration, the countries would have a common currency, and a common foreign policy, and a common defense policy , and free trade, and the free movement of people, so the european continent in in this sense , we are ahead and are such an example for other countries to follow, and that is why many countries want to join the european union, not only ukraine, the balkans, but also turkey, for now, still officially , remains a candidate for the european offensive union. therefore, this is a model of an ideal world , it seems to me, as far as it is possible at all, but mr. sergey, despite the fact that this is a model of an ideal world, and here i

agree with you on almost everything, but that rooster that pecks, he plays an important role, the ukrainians didn't even know, i think, what darfur was, they knew what afghanistan was, that is, the afghans are also shouting, help me. and darfur screams when it hurts, when it pecks. ukrainians, what, did they take to the streets so strongly about yugoslavia and protest against that milosevic? no, but white, and people in the balkans protested, screamed and died. and so on. that is, there is a huge number of such moments that we unite here and see that there is a problem. when we are in pain, that is, in order to transform the world, i have the impression that it is necessary for many countries to be in pain at the same time, three or four countries in latin

america, so that, oh, it hurts, we, we, we, we are insulted , in africa, in this, in asia, and then the world will say, no, yes, something really needs to be done, but imagine a changed world, provided that not only russia is in the same security council, but there is also china. and we know that there are uyghurs, and there are problems, and there is hong kong, was there already then, once upon a time, in short, there are a huge number of crises that are not, well, that humanity does not allow itself, your shirt is closer to the body - it not only a ukrainian proverb, my house is from the edge - it is a universal principle, which is followed not only by many people, but also by the country. who first of all think about their well-being, about their people, about their interests, and it is obvious that the world is not ukrainian-centric, and our situation,

no matter how tragic it is, is only one of factors that are on the agenda of the un security council or the un secretary general every day, one should be aware of this , one should not be naive that everyone in the world wants to help ukraine, or everyone... and is ready to sacrifice their own interests for the protection of general principles the protection of human rights or the sovereignty of ukraine in this case, that is why it is necessary to build a strong country, it is necessary to enter into strong alliances, both economic and military-political, it is necessary to have an internally strong army, a strong deified economy, and good allies and neighbors and together build coalitions that change the world. if we are talking about the change in the role of russia in the world, as it is currently reflected in the un charter and its privileged position in the lon security council, then objectively, today

even the closest allies of ukraine are not ready to change the status quo, simply because that russia, despite two years of war against ukraine, which exhausted them, both in the military sense and in the economic and demographic sense, remains one of the largest and most powerful states in the world, unfortunately for us. objectively, changes in the status of russia, possible when it ceases to be a nuclear power, or... becomes a permanent threat to the free world due to its nuclear potential, huge territory and resources, so in our task, which, which, which is to defeat russia, we should not act one, we must build long-term strategic relations with our partners and, together with them , convince them that it is in their interests to strategically weaken russia and ukraine.

everything that can is a huge violation, because we started with the general declaration of rights people, abduction of people from ukraine, we know about it, and even some biker communities with the russian federation, which american diplomats tell us, which means that 800 thousand citizens of the russian federation moved to crimea, this is such a short list, there are 150 million of them, so, all this is there, and the question arises, and it can be, someone in russia can be brought to justice for this, that is, are there procedures for each of the violations of this declaration and these remaining international documents, which we can submit in anticipation of the positive for himself result, for all violations there are different mechanisms of prosecution,

somewhere they are more effective, somewhere they are less... northern, i would, for example, concentrate on deportation, kidnapping of ukrainian children, because unlike other crimes committed by russia, which some people in the world will consider , well, you know, this is some kind of consequence of any armed conflict, there is nothing extraordinary here, just the issue of children is very emotional and is recalled in all countries of the world, that is why, for example, mediators, states, mediators in the return of ukrainian children spoke at one time... turkey, qatar, and saudi arabia, even countries that do not always support ukraine in voting at the un, support proper investigation and the crime of child abduction and their return, which is important, because any -what intelligent person understands what kidnapped children are, it is emotional, everyone tries this situation on themselves, so ukraine should strategically calculate what

crimes committed by russia are possible. prove right now, which will be perceived by the international community and promote their interests as in the international criminal court, as well as in the international court of the un, and what we started with, apparently, is already the arrest of the international criminal court - these are children, then there should be topics such as impressions of the ukrainian civil infrastructure, which is a war crime, and it is easy to prove that russia simply shot up substations in order to leave ukrainians without electricity, despite the fact that this did not give it any ... military advantage, then the cruel treatment of prisoners of war and the illegal detention of thousands of ukrainian civilians in russian prisons without any grounds, this as well as what we can prove, the environmental damage caused by russia and through kakhovska yes , thank you very much, mr. serhiy, sorry, we have to interrupt you, thank you very much for volunteering with our broadcast serhiy petukhov, senior lecturer of the department of international law,

kyiv - malya academy. and the former deputy minister of justice was in touch with us, i say goodbye to you on this, i advise you to watch katsapology and return more often to espresso tv, because what program is on tuesday, then there will be saturdays and sundays, as usual. for everything ok bye bye the sudden meeting between zelenskyi and orban in argentina, the evacuation of ukrainians from the gas sector, and part of donetsk remained without electricity. greetings to all espresso viewers, the espresso team will tell you the details of these and other news.