good evening, we are from ukraine, glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, i greet everyone and wish everyone good health, for the next two hours we will talk about ukraine, about the world, about the war, about our victory, today in ukraine , in our program, more than fifty. in the night, the occupiers once again terrorized the capital with ballistics, the consequences of the missile attack on kyiv. a bold offensive plan or a conservative approach. ukraine and the usa are developing a new strategy for the introduction of war for 2024. what is the difference in views? the limit of cynicism. russian the cec announced the holding of elections in the occupied territories. why the kremlin in this way? not reach

we will talk about this and other things during the next hour with our guests, people's deputy of ukraine andrii masadchuk, political scientist serhiy taran and diplomat oleksandr khara. the second part of our program, which will start in an hour, will feature political scientists, including volodymyr tsibulko, andrii smolii and vitaliy kulyk. however, before starting our big conversation, i suggest you take a look. this video of the consequences of a missile strike, or rather the remains of of the russian missiles that fell on the ukrainian capital today, ukrainian air defense shot down all 10 ballistic missiles that the occupiers launched at kyiv, and unfortunately, there are casualties, in particular , the administration of the capital's military-civilian administration says that 53 people were injured. including the children, we are watching the video

, we were just sleeping, it is good that we were still covered with a blanket, because if we were not covered with a blanket, the glass would have been lying on top of us, then i poured everything completely, it is the whole house in glass. there is no window, the impact was such that the wall burst, you see, she cracked, saying, the russians brought us for the new year, we celebrate the new year, there was an explosion, we jumped out into the corridor and i was taken to the entrance door, the door opened.

they are shaky and blocked, i can’t open them, i called the ministry of emergency situations for help from the balcony, and they helped me, thank god, i took my backpack, i was worried , it was thrown away, i don’t remember how i got up, i immediately ran to get the things there, as the shock wave hit me , then it all went to the helm, because the windows were taken out, they were taken out, look, they took out the windows, they were so heavy, this is a triple package, it is endured everything, look at what is being done, here she is. that's all, these are the severe consequences of ballistics, a ballistic strike on the ukrainian capital, it was the most powerful, the most powerful strike in recent times by ballistic missiles. friends, for those who are currently watching us on youtube, please like this video and also subscribe to our youtube page, those who are watching us on facebook, please do the same, like. story and

subscribe to our page. in addition, we are conducting a survey, today we ask you about this, did you have problems with the connection yesterday and today. yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube. if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphones and vote too. i'm hoping that one of the mobile carriers has already restored your connection and you can tell for sure if you stayed connected or if you still had no problems with... with the connection if you you had problems with the connection, call 0800 211 381, not 0800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, well, as we see that the russian federation inflicts not only rocket attacks on the ukrainian capital and other cities, including ballistic missiles, yesterday morning, december 12. hackers carried out a large-scale attack on

the kyivstar mobile communications operator. there was no connection in this mobile network for two days. kyivstar was connected to the savings bank's atms and people could not withdraw money, and the payment terminals also did not work, those that were also tied to the systems located in the savings bank, the sbu announced that it was investigating the case immediately several articles of the criminal law of the code, among them sabotage, treason and encroachment on territorial integrity and inviolability. russia. the suntsepok hacker group took responsibility for hacking the kyivstar system, but the security service of ukraine notes that the cybercriminals are a unit of the main administration of the general staff of the armed forces of the russian federation. i hope we

will hear now from the spokesperson of the security service of ukraine. cyber ​​specialists of the security service of ukraine and specialists of kyivstaro, in cooperation with other state bodies, continue the work to restore the network after yesterday hacker attack. the digital infrastructure of kyivstar has suffered critical damage, so it will take time to restore all services in compliance with the necessary security protocols. the security service of ukraine continues to document the russian cyber attack on the civilian infrastructure of ukraine as another war crime of the rashists. well, this is a group of sun drinkers who took responsibility for the cyber attack on kyivstar, posted in the telegram channels of the russian federation, which are located on the territory of the russian federation , that they are responsible for the cyber attack and

talk about the fact that they allegedly destroyed 10,000 operator computers and more than 4,000 servers, well, you see, the security service of ukraine says that this is not the answer. gives the truth and does not correspond to the truth, in particular those screenshots that this hacker group made public on telegram channels, that is, judging by the reports of our special services, hackers of the main intelligence department of the ministry of defense of the russian federation are engaged in this, and sundew, this is just such a showcase, for which was hidden by hackers who allowed themselves to destroy the servers or went into the software provision of the kyivstar mobile operator , well, at the same time, we know that on the same day when the communication was interrupted in the kyivstar mobile operator, there was an attack on the monobank, and

even earlier, if we recall the beginning of the war, russian hackers quite actively attacked the servers of state authorities. in ukraine and not only, because the site of the espresso tv channel was also subjected to hacker attacks, i remember very well how in february, march of 22nd year we made every effort to ensure that our resources, which we have on espresso, so that they refrain from attacks, which were inflicted on us by russian hackers. didos attacks that could, in principle, put the site down , or, for example, find access to the site and write some message there on behalf of the espresso tv channel or on behalf of the journalists of the espresso tv channel, but our system

withstood these dedos attacks, and we see that hackers who now they are starting a new phase of russia's war against u... ukraine, they are leading into a separate element of hybrid war, cyber war, cyber war, which will obviously be directed at banks, to mobile operators, to those enterprises of critical infrastructure, where it is also possible that there are some other loopholes where hackers can get into, so be very careful with mobile operators, from banks. which system, because the russians, as they say , have adopted quite a lot of people who understand how to hack certain servers, and some of these hackers, by

the way, who work for the main intelligence department of the ministry of defense of the russian federation, are those people who at one time caught them in some kind of abuse, because how are they... money from the cards and some of it is wanted by the federal bureau of investigation of the united states of america and a lot. foreign special services are also shooting at these hackers, but they were simply offered that you work with us, no one will touch you, so i urge you once again to be careful with smartphones, with cards linked to smartphones and with the data that is in your smartphones, because it is now the subject of close attention of russian special services and russian hackers, and kyivstar has already... reported that after a full restoration of the network, we promise to prepare

compensation for all subscribers and corporate clients who could not use kyivstar services. as i said at the beginning of our program, the last week was marked by the russian occupiers striking kyiv with ballistic missiles, 10 ballistic missiles tonight... the missiles were fired in the direction of the ukrainian capital, probably from the bryansk region. fortunately, ukrainian air defense shot down all 10 missiles, but there is destruction in the capital and more than 50 people were injured. we have a report of ours journalist dmytro didora, who visited the site of the fall of the fragments of rockets that were shot down by ukrainian air defenses. let's look at dmytro's plot. around three o'clock in the morning, the russians launch 10 ballistic missiles at the capital, all enemy

targets are shot down by our anti-aircraft defense, but the fragments of the downed missiles fall on the yard of a residential building, all the windows are broken , cars are smashed and burned, and a huge gap is caused by falling debris, this is only part of the consequences . of the russian attack on kyiv, the resident of this building oleksandr did not have time to understand what happened, he immediately ran to save his son and two cats. i was lying here on the second floor of the bed, it was so muffled, it was good that i covered myself, i only had one nose, i looked out, a splinter pierced my nose, i am like this, here something is interfering with the eye even this time, what is it once the tank gushed, i think that's right, the rescuers and emergency services were on the scene in a matter of minutes, they immediately provided the first

, not... life. to acquaintances, to acquaintances, now, where are we, somewhere, somewhere, will we be now, we will not be defeated, i believe in the victories of the armed forces of ukraine, we will not be defeated, damn it, let them not scare everyone, temporarily the residents of the damaged building will be sheltered in the infamous point, it is located in the nearest school, rescuers and medics, red cross volunteers are on duty at the site... and deployed points to beat the victims. to date, people have turned to us for such help. it was heating. this was first aid, first aid is this at the moment there are about 20 people, somewhere, but the statistics are still being clarified. we also distributed a lot of tea and hot drinks. utility workers are putting the yard of the house in order, gutted cars will be taken away, and the hole left by the explosion will be buried. police officers record damaged property from people's words. further. working under the expert commission of the city, which will determine whether the supporting structures of the house are damaged, then

they will conduct an examination of the house in order to know whether it needs to be repaired capitally, non-capitally, or how to repair it, the belongings of residents who have moved to a temporary point for school, an indomitable point, will be under guard, they are all there and registered, so i think that a month, a lot of work, this is already the second attack by the russians. ballistic missiles on the capital since the beginning of the week, the air defense forces again managed to shoot down all targets, but even the fragments of enemy missiles caused significant damage to people. dmytro didora, oleksandr burlevich, espresso tv channel. the general staff of the armed forces of ukraine reported that on the night of december 13, kyiv was attacked with anti-aircraft missiles s-400 and iskander cruise missiles. i will quote the message. of our general staff , 10 missiles, s-400 anti-aircraft missiles and

iskander cruise missiles were fired in the direction of kyiv, by the forces and means of air defense of ukraine, all missiles that flew at kyiv were destroyed. now we will talk with our guest, political scientist serhiy, about the situation that consists of real and cyber war. mr. sergey, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our broadcast. i congratulate you. we see, mr. serhiy, as during the last one month, the russians are actively using ballistics. missiles to attack the ukrainian capital, well, that is, these weapons, ballistic missiles, are weapons of terrorists, because they launch them and it is not known where these missiles fly, since no one can calculate the ballistic trajectory, can we talk about the fact that russia is starting a new stage of terror,

or continues with a new stage of terror. ukraine, because ballistic missiles are weapons that, in principle, in the hands of such people, who may or may not be the people who launch these missiles, turn into weapons of mass destruction, and we see the consequences, even from the fragments of these ballistic missiles, in kyiv, we are now reaping the results of this, tell me, please, what kind of response do you think ukraine should have? on this terror, i.e. should we retaliate, at which objects it can fly, and can these retaliatory strikes stop putin? well, this is no longer russia with ballistic weapons and it is not the first time that it

has fired ballistic missiles at kyiv, now of course it is hitting more and it is becoming such a systemic story. so far these missiles have been shot down, thanks support of our allies, we have modern , anti-aircraft defense systems that shoot them down, and we see that they were all shot down at night, but for russia now a truly mass terror is becoming a priority not only of some groups or armed forces of ukraine, but mass terror of the whole country, this is now becoming the main strategy of putin, because he realized that in no other way can he... at least try to influence public opinion in ukraine, on the indomitability of ukrainians, so it will continue, and all the more so in it is precisely for the supply of s300 missiles and well, the s-400 is quite large , so it will continue to be so, but as we saw this night, at the same time, we heard an announcement from the german government just a few days ago that

a new german air defense system will be deployed in kyiv, well, in ukraine. which can actually fight such ballistics, and just today norway announced that it will help us with slightly different, but also very effective air defense systems, and this is all that ukraine can do now, is to have a reliable air defense system, what do you need to talk with our international partners, of course we have to strike back, i am not a military strategist to give recipes to our armed forces of ukraine, but if we evaluate the political... impact of those effects, the effect that occurs after ukraine strikes on the military objects, i emphasize, on military objects on the territory of russia, it is at least definitely better than nothing, because russia, in general, it is such a strange country, the russians are very bad, well, they do not react to violence at all, they somehow do not care , but

when violence of any kind, even in the form of exploding military warehouses nearby or strikes on military units nearby in ... russian territory, when this happens, at least there is a much greater chance of reaching the heads of strange russians who still support putin, therefore, from the political point of view, of course, such strikes would be correct, but from the military point of view , of course, first of all, military experts should evaluate the military strategies that lead the armed forces of ukraine. just a few days ago sir serhiy, the bonn institute of research. militarization, the ranking of militarization in the world , there is such a global index of militarization , they concluded that over the past 16 years, israel has lost the leadership in militarization to ukraine, i don’t know, in fact,

whether this is true or not, well, at least there are such data that ukraine is now... the most militarized country in europe, and we have overcome these steps from the 18th to the first in literally a year, well , at least that's what the germans claim. you are a supporter of ukraine becoming more and more militarized, are you still a supporter of the fact that ukraine should be under the umbrella of a militarized bloc that will decide. part of the problems that we are now solving independently with russia, and this and that, let's mention poland, let's mention it again, here's how poland is doing, they are members of nato, and quite actively. equal, their generals are in the leadership of the north atlantic alliance, but at the same time, looking at what is happening in other allies of the alliance, the poles have already

begun a large-scale rearmament of their own army, well, for comparison, for example, they plan to buy up to a thousand tanks only from south korea, well, because there are no modern tanks in europe, everything has already been dug up and they are not produced in very large quantities. on all internal semi-closed or closed forms, the poles reproach the germans that we have in poland, well, that's what they say, there are already more tanks than german tanks, more than on the territory of germany itself, that's how they reproach the germans, that's why poland is starting a very serious large-scale rearmament program, and soon it is evident that that this country will have, well, probably the first army among the countries of the european union, a land army on the territory of europe, you just... think about it, it will be an army bigger than, for example, the army of germany or france, that is , this is how they behave, although they are members of the north atlantic alliance, but they are very good at making lessons from their own history and

from the history that is happening now in ukraine. therefore, for ukraine, i think, this is exactly the path that we also need. i believe that ukraine needs to arm itself, it needs to have its own industrial complex, but in no way should it be an alternative to joining nato, because only the north atlantic ... alliance gives a guarantee that in the event of a war, a future war, the members of the north atlantic alliance will fight with us on our side against the aggressor, because when you know that , an ally somewhere, then you know, now we see how it is treated even in the united states, there is a purely domestic politics around this, but if american soldiers were now sitting in the trenches next to our soldiers, i think the debates in the american parliament were a little different. as was the pace of aid to us, a little different from germany and france, and surely no one would have blocked the trucks on the polish-ukrainian border if the poles had fought with us against the aggressor. therefore

, i think that the north atlantic alliance is a guarantee that we will have the unconditional support of our allies. at the same time , of course, you need to arm yourself. i think we still have something to learn from israel. we probably have, maybe, i agree with that expert, which. cited , perhaps the militarization of society is already higher than in israel, but in israel this militarization is primarily based on its own production resources, they produce their own equipment, they produce their own technologies, they produce israeli weapons, and that is why they have reached such a level of militarization, while we after all, we have these weapons only thanks to our allies, so here we need to pay attention to it, and here is the last thing, you know, when israel and ukraine are compared, i always want. i want to remind you of one important thing: eh, israel remains a democracy, despite any war, and despite the fact that the war has been going on there for several decades, there is

freedom of speech, there is an understanding that democratic institutions must remain democratic, there is no political censorship, there is military censorship, this is absolutely natural, but there is no political censorship, and this allows this country to survive and society to survive, because if we... imagine that, for example, we need high-tech weapons, then we must understand that such weapons are best produced not in the sharaskins offices, well, according to the stalin model, when scientists produce something in some closed premises, as free people who have high salaries, have freedom, and who have enough opportunities and desire to work on the territory of israel and develop those weapons. we also have to create the right conditions for scientists in ukraine. for those people who know how to make modern technologies so that they do not run away, but stay voluntarily in ukraine, produce these weapons, therefore israel's success is not only in weapons, in the preservation

of democratic institutions, and this is the second lesson, that ukraine should take from israel, in everything else, for example, in the courage of our soldiers, i think that we can definitely give israel a head start, but in terms of technologies and institutions, we still need to learn here. as for nato, yesterday zelenskyi met with biden, and biden said: that ukraine will become a member of nato after the victory over russia. let's listen to what the president of the united states of america said. for now, we have to make sure that ukraine will win the war. as you know, we launched a joint aid program with the president zelenskyi and the leaders of the big seven in vilnius, defining long-term commitments to support ukrainian defense needs. we also held a conference. defense industry last week in washington to accomplish this critical task, so let's move one step at a time.

mr. serhiu, regarding nato, regarding prospects in the north atlantic alliance in ukraine. well, it seems that no one has any doubts that ukraine should be in nato. there were various theories that ukraine could join nato as a part of the territory that is not occupied. the occupied part will then join the part that will join the north atlantic alliance, but we see that the united states of america and... other members of the north atlantic alliance have different attitudes in general to what ukraine's victory over russia is. everyone says that it should be a victory, everyone says that putin should be defeated, but there is still no single vision, well there is none, but we have been talking about it for a long time and trying to understand, but what is a victory in the understanding united states of america, what is victory in the understanding of great britain and germany.

our main partners and our main allies in the anti-putin conditional coalition , and what is the defeat of russia, do you understand, when they talk about the prospects in nato and the defeat of russia, are they the same thing, we should be in nato, and russia will win defeat, but we cannot be in nato, because we have occupied territories, no one wants to take us to nato until we defeat russia. that is, we go around in circles, well, first of all, i want to ask a counter question, there is such a thing in ukraine understanding, but in ukraine there is a general understanding that we can consider a victory, well, this can still be understood, well, for example, for many, well, for example, for me it would be there, in particular, the return of the borders of 1991 would be a victory there, but the most important thing , what is the strategy for achieving these victories in ukraine is this understanding, well, i, for example, believe that

a realistic victory for... ukraine should be when ukraine becomes a member of the north atlantic alliance and the european union, on the contrary, initially it , and then it can be considered, in my opinion, it is mine subjective opinion, victory, but there is no such discussion in ukraine before this, because this discussion should answer the questions about the strategies of victory, about the terms, about when it can be achieved, but we cannot say that this will be achieved someday, without naming at least some border regions, it is clear that... a war of affairs is not predicted, but i will prove that in ukraine, as well as in the west, there is no such discussion, moreover, regarding the ukrainian victories in the west, probably more discussions than in ukraine, you understand, in the west think in slightly different terms, they are rational people, and they look at the war in ukraine, well, a little from the side, of course, they sympathize, they worry, but it is not their war, because their soldiers are not in the trenches,

and looking at it from the side, they... calculate , they calculate different options, they calculate different options, starting from their own european history, and that is why from time to time we hear from our western colleagues, well, for example, there is a comparison with germany, when germany joined nato and was a member of the european union, west germany, the eastern remained under soviet occupation for many years, and then joined germany, they often talk about the german version that can be applied to ukraine, sometimes they talk about korean. option, the freezing of conflicts, the integration of one of the parts, well, a larger part, thank god, of ukraine into the western world. when they say this, it offends many people in ukraine, because here we want a careless victory, final, definitive, in the west, everyone reacts rationally, and there is nothing to be offended by them, you just need to learn to speak to them in their own way language, and if not to say that we have to sacrifice our interests there, then at least to discuss different strategies

for ending the war. various strategies that would not only guarantee that ukraine joins nato and the european union, but also , for example, guarantee that there will be no more new war with russia, all this should be discussed with them in their language, this conversation is still inevitable, because if we don't talk to them and reason, don't talk about different strategies, they will still do it only without our participation, without of our participation, they will talk about how the war in ukraine can end, it will come out about this... many publications, expert opinions, retired politicians, and the active ones will publish their columns in the leading mass media, and we will be offended by this, therefore these statements should be taken simply as a kind of communication, in which we still need to participate, and we need to take different options, and any option, that is , any of our tasks for victory, must always be supplemented with an absolutely realistic plan, such as can be implemented, well, example,