my greetings, this is svoboda live, we have a special program live, because of the events, historical events that took place at the summit in brussels, well, it is about the fact that the leaders of the european union today supported the start of negotiations. on ukraine's accession to the eu, a corresponding decision was also made regarding moldova, and georgia received the status of a candidate member of the eu. well, of course we will return to ukraine. my colleague zaryana stepanenko in brussels has been following all the time what is happening there, as soon as in a couple of minutes she will join our broadcast and tell we live everything that happens there, but for now i will remind you that the forecasts regarding the adoption of the relevant decision were not particularly good.

optimistic, no more than 30% were given by european officials for the adoption of such a decision, all because of the decision of orban, who threatened to block, or rather, to veto the relevant decision. i will remind you that in order to vote such a decision, all 27 member states must vote in favor, instead orbán threatened to impose a veto and , accordingly, there would be no such decision. but she is ready to tell us all the details my colleague she watched those historical events live. zaryano, my greetings, good evening. i mentioned that in fact 20-30% probability, probability was given because the relevant decision will be made. am i correct in understanding that now this event has become a kind of political surprise not only for ukraine, but also for many european officials. dasha, congratulations again, indeed, we

have already seen you on the air, and such a reason for us to see each other again, absolutely, you are right, it was a surprise for everyone here, in this hall, it is located, you know, in a building where summits are held, diplomats who are familiar with the course of the discussion regularly appear and explain to journalists what is happening, nothing signaled the possibility of such a breakthrough, it was completely quiet here, until suddenly the entire press the room literally came to life, everyone got confused and it started storming. speaking, we all showed each other twitter here, i apologize x, the post on charles michel's network that you relayed, and the historicity of the moment, the president of the european council, announcing the decision leaders, for which there was really little hope here, he emphasized here on the sidelines, in the press room, more precisely, where we are, he came here and surrounded by hundreds of journalists from different parts of the world, charles michel confirmed that the european union, i repeat once again, opens accession negotiations with ukraine and... this

historical moment demonstrates the reliability and strength of the european union. the decision has been made, we open negotiations with ukraine, moldova, grant candidate status to georgia, and with bosnia and herzegovina we intend, we will open negotiations, the report will be published in march. what made viktor orbán change his mind, who as early as this morning, you remember , did not give any hints that such a thing is even possible, it is still an intrigue, but i think that we will soon learn more details from the diplomats, as it usually happens, well, an interesting moment , colleagues, how was the decision made, you know that at that moment the hungarian prime minister was simply not in the hall, well , no, this does not mean that procedurally it is possible to circumvent the rules of the eu, because you will surely think that... what about others cases

, you can't just wait for one of the leaders to come out room and approve any own decision behind their back, the main point, i note here, he did not oppose and in fact allowed it to happen. when they voted to open accession negotiations with ukraine and beyond, viktor orbán walked out, that is, the veto did not happen, and several representatives of the european council claim that orbán deliberately left the meeting for the time of voting for the decision regarding ukraine and in the president's team. the eurocouncil, then we were told by the journalists who are here that it is legally correct rules, since the decision was approved without orbán's presence, but not behind his back, he knew everything. all other states voted for the start of negotiations with ukraine, thus there were 26 votes in favor and one, speaking figuratively, abstained. volodymyr zelensky called the decision a victory for ukraine and europe. he addressed the participants of the summit online today and urged them to

support ukraine. the preconditions were set not by hungary, but by the european commission. seven points, they are public. we are not fulfilled, in my estimation, even more, but even three suffice it to say: comrades, if you have not fulfilled the preconditions, there is no chance to start negotiations. today is the day when determination will be either in brussels or in moscow. people in europe will not understand if the reward for the meeting in brussels is putin's satisfied smile. don't give him this first and only win of the year. europe must win, the agreements must be respected. and words should have meaning. by the way, the ukrainian president wanted, as the diplomats said, to be physically here in brussels today, as did the leaders of the eu member states, but they decided anyway not to invite zelensky, so as not to annoy orban, whom they tried to convince

to support the opening of negotiations, and as you can see, they succeeded, that is, they achieved their goal. i will give yes, zaryano, well, actually, what's next? what are the procedural points, what does this beginning mean, the beginning of the beginning of negotiations? look, the process will be as follows: the delegation from the european commission begins to prepare for the actual start of negotiations, but today's decision of the summit is political, because technically the negotiations will not start, for this ukraine must fully fulfill the seven conditions accompanying the status its provision, or rather its status as a candidate for admission to the european... orbán said this morning that his assessment is even lower. yes, zaryano, and one more question for you, and what about other ukrainian issues, well, in particular, i am interested in

the unblocking of 50 billion, or the allocation of 50 billion in macro-financial assistance, what is the fate, what are the forecasts? colleagues, regarding macro-financial assistance, the summit is now continuing its session, the leaders have gathered again after a short break and now they are actually at the stage of trying to approve the budget of the european union in the medium-term perspective for the years 2021-2027, and actually part of this decision should be macrofin for ukraine of 50 billion, its allocation for the next four years, and the essence of this decision is to make assistance to ukraine fin'. stable and predictable, so that it is not affected by any political processes in the eu, elections, changes of governments, so that ukraine knows that for the next four years it will have so much money, 50 billion, that is, 12.5 per year. orbán said, again in the morning

, that he is the decision, that he is supports another decision on the macro -finance for ukraine, outside the eu budget, that is... such a plan, he was not ready to vote for it and also previously threatened to veto it, and the leader of the european union started today, by the way, a summit on this financial section , but they considered plan b, i.e. to provide financial assistance to ukraine with the strength and will of 26 eu member states, since everyone except orban agreed to it and thought how to do it technically, or rather drafts of these options were already on their table, since the european commission...thought it all out, contingency plans were prepared that orbán would take such a position, they knew in advance, well, but they did not finish this story with a plan b, because during this consideration the leaders were signaled that the hungarian side, that there is a chance, that orban can

give the go-ahead to plan a, plan a, as you heard, it is 27 eu member states approving within the budget of the european union macro-finance for ukraine for, respectively, the next four. i have already briefly told about them, the main thing is stability, predictability and comprehensibility for ukraine, that is why the leaders, when they heard such information, i mean the colleagues of viktor orbán, they put aside this story, the financial story, and moved on to the topic of expansion, which is no less difficult, and even more so in some moments, and you see that really from with this decision, the success of which was prophesied by diplomats literally yesterday. estimated the chances of making a decision regarding the negotiations at 20-30%, but today it became possible, and as for the financial decision, too, it is difficult to say exactly what will happen, but the fact that we managed to agree on the expansion is also in fact

can be called a signal that even with the financial solution it will be possible to actually reach an agreement between all 20 seven member countries, we are staying here, yes, that we will... watch everything closely, i hope, we will see each other on the air, i will read more i can tell you, actually, how viktor orbán himself explained his absence in the room, i will briefly say literally, he said that... as the leaders want, so be it, but his position remains the same as it was , that he does not agree with this, but nevertheless, decision accepted colleagues great, thank you very much, i also hope that we will be able to talk with you at the end of the issue and get more news. thank you, zoryana stepanenko from brussels was in direct contact with us, where today a historic decision was made to start negotiations. well, just now volodymyr fesenko, a political scientist, joins our broadcast, sir. volodymyr, good evening, my greetings, good evening, i congratulate you, and how do you like tonight, did

such a decision come as a surprise to you, because if we talked with a colleague, literally no more than 30% , even the european officials themselves gave such a decision, i don't know how they evaluated it in the ukrainian parliament, we will talk to the deputies later, as a political scientist, did you expect that we would have such news today? well, to be honest, it was a pleasant surprise, i was rather a skeptic, i... knew about these forecasts, about 20-30%, i know that our famous diplomats who have connections in europe, well, about the same were assessed, well , taking into account orbán's public, rigid and categorical position, the chances looked like this not very high, i assumed that orbán could play such a long game, block the decision now. in the spring, well, at the beginning of next year, or in february or march, at

the next meeting of the european council , he can still give his consent, because it is actually rationally profitable for him to drag out this process, then he will be able to blackmail us and, most importantly , the european union, to squeeze money out of brussels for several more years under time of negotiations, and in the end he can still use his right of veto at the finish line, when... the question of our entry into of the european union, so it is too early for us to relax, but today is definitely a pleasant surprise , unexpected, even if i say so, well, there is always hope, well, especially against the background of all the recent not very pleasant news, well, i wanted to receive a nice gift at the end of the year, so i would say a solution of the european union today, or rather of the european council, well and in general, well... that it was initially a decision of the european commission, now of the european council, i would say that this is a great christmas gift to both ukraine and moldova, for

which we are very grateful to them, and this really a surprise it happened because, well, i assumed that orban could be persuaded there for two days, and there was even information that the meeting could be continued on saturday, but it happened on the first day, and it was a really pleasant surprise, you know, our colleague from... said , who joked on the sidelines, in particular mark rutte, about the fact that he took many shirts with him and that they are ready to sit as long as necessary until a decision is made regarding ukraine. well, we also remember that the day before president zelensky was in norway, and actually everyone expected that he would fly to brussels, but as it became known this morning that he did not fly to brussels in order not to annoy orban, well, that is, the invitation was not accepted by all countries. are not members of the eu, and accordingly zelensky met this historic decision in

germany at the american air base, all these events really pointed to a completely different result. after all, what did orbán need then, because i understand that the card that was played out was that orbán allegedly did not lose his political reputation, did not change his political decision, but at least allowed a decision to be made on ukraine, and when when anyway... the scenario appeared in your opinion and what influenced the fact that orban, whose initiative was it for orban to leave the hall when the decision of ukraine was being voted on? well, you know, we will know about it someday, now, well, well, i ca n't fantasize and i don't want to fantasize, one day we will know, when and maybe orbán himself will write a memoir, and most importantly - the european leaders themselves, because orbán, well, we we know, he is a master... of creating various hoaxes, and therefore, well , memoirs are not a source of truth, they are a kind of

truth in quotes, yes, but what they will write other european leaders once, as an example, the former president of france, hollande wrote a very cool memoir about his presidency, i generally think it's such a cool guide for political scientists, you know, this is how the presidential machine works. in the presidential republic, and in particular he described there how the minsk negotiations took place, and in general there were several episodes of negotiations with putin. someday we will know how today's meeting went. how it happened, in general, orbán created, i would say, a huge mystery, he made what is called in the cinema after hitchcock suspense, everyone was in tension, everyone expected a negative result, he raised the bar of his demands, these public taboos, an absolutely categorical position, he will never

agree to the start of negotiations on ukraine's accession to the eu, and all of a sudden here and there and here and there... an unexpected outburst, i myself wonder what arguments european colleagues found, how they convinced him to take such a diplomatic step, i think that it will go down in history in fact, an exit during voting, this is also such a diplomatic step, he allegedly stuck to his position, and at the same time did not prevent the necessary decision to be made. for ukraine , i think that this is the situation, it will really go down in the history of diplomacy, but i will pay attention to something else, i already wrote about it, i think that european leaders can give a master class to their american colleagues, from the republican democratic parties, how to search for, find and implement

the necessary compromises, effective compromises, but now it has happened and we we are happy, and i really wanted... something like this to happen in the us congress, if not before christmas, although i would really like to, but now, unfortunately, there is practically no time left, well , considering that the gentle chamber after all after all, he is going on vacation, well, so that at least it is approved in january, yes, and here is an example that it is possible, it is possible to work in such a way that, after all , democracy is based on compromise, and the ability to find a compromise is a huge art of democratic politics. mr. volodymyr, and finally, i cannot help but ask, when they talked about what if applied veto regarding ukraine, it will be such a nuisance, so to speak, not only for ukraine, but also for the european union, which will again emphasize its disunity, so to speak, how important is today's decision, the ukrainian decision, for the european union itself? absolutely right, i

have been saying this for the last few days, that such blocking position of orban was... a challenge not so much for us, but for the future of the european union, in fact, if orban blocked now, well, a veto on ukraine would mean a veto for the future expansion of the european union, because this is a package decision, and moldova and even in the western balkans, this is a package decision, because ukraine is a key, key position in this decision on the further expansion of the european union, and this would become an obstacle on the way to further development of the european union and... in general , the normal functioning of the european union as a community of solidarity, this was a challenge to the future of the eu, and perhaps that is precisely why, i think from michel, from charles michel, who is now in front of us, who has done a lot for for today's decision to take place, to macron and many others, i think i will also

give credit, although there was a tactic so that our president... was not directly at the meeting of the european council, it was a tactic, but in general , i think that ukrainian diplomacy from the president to the office, it should also be noted, the office of the vice-prime minister for issues of european euro-atlantic integration, they did a lot for today's decision, the ministry of foreign affairs, the verkhovna rada, which voted everything is necessary, everyone did jointly, it is necessary, everything is necessary. in order for today's result to happen, therefore, it is not only a victory for the european union, which fought for its own future, but it is also a victory for ukrainian diplomacy. of course. thank you, mr. volodymyr, for joining the broadcast. volodymyr fesenko, a political scientist, was in direct contact with us. well , we continue the broadcast, and ivanna klympush tsintsadze, people's deputy of ukraine from the european

solidarity faction and head of the committee on european integration joins our broadcast. mrs. ivano, good evening, my dears greeting. good evening. ah, tell me. please what next? well, first of all, how unexpected was today's decision of the european commission later on of the european council, and actually what's next, what steps are now required of ukraine and how long can this process last? well, i think that i share absolutely sincere admiration, the joy of the fact that with all ukrainian citizens, of the fact that it was possible to pass such a decision at today's council of the european union, i think that... i don't think about it yet, i know , that even at lunch that day there were, well, such half-hearted decisions possible, and it is obvious that we are grateful to all our partners. indeed, to the heads of all european institutions, and to president macron, and by the way, to chancellor scholz, to many, many others who contributed to the fact that today's decision

was adopted in such a complete form. what's next? further, i hope, the european commission's active assessment of ukrainian legislation, the so-called screening, i hope is also positive. the european commission's assessment of the steps that have already been taken by ukraine at this point, after the preliminary assessment in october, and in fact, that we have completed what we would still have to do, this is a certain number, this is a whole series of draft laws, this is a certain number of additional decisions in various areas, but they should be evaluated around the month of march, i hope... that on on the basis of this, in parallel, the european commission will propose a framework, a negotiating framework, and we just have to realize that today

is absolutely a day of celebration, but there is no need to fall into euphoria, this is a big and serious job that we still have to do, and at every stage , there may be about 100 of them stages during the promotion to membership, there may be... one or another country that will want to block this or that decision, so the victory is today, we celebrate, we celebrate, we rejoice, but we roll up our sleeves and work on. ms. ivan, you actually mentioned the fact that the right of veto can be applied at any stage, and what happened today in your opinion, why did orbán change his mind, why, to be more precise, but decided not to impose a veto, at the same time not to vote, and in general , or such a mechanism when a leader simply emerges. countries from the hall, whether it was used before in european union? well, as far as i understand, this is such an absolutely unique, special case, and i

am grateful to those partners who played a lot of hands on one piano today so that such a decision could be made already at today's european council, here it is absolutely necessary to understand that this decision is definitely not exclusively about ukraine, but... this is a geopolitical decision of the european union, it concerns both ukraine and moldova, it gives an additional promise to bosnia and herzegovina, it granted candidate status to georgia, that's for sure means that today putin received a big, serious slap, caught a lick, and i hope that this will help, including for him to realize that his time of trying to drag... into his orbit of our country is finally behind him. mrs. ivano, what about other decisions, in particular macro-financial assistance of 50 billion, will there be good news,

as you predict? i hope that at least all the news, let's say all the signals we 've been getting up until now have said that it's very likely that even if an attempt to block this, well, this. important help for ukraine from hungary, then a solution can be found on the 26th, based on the decision of 26 countries, so i hope that we will have positive news in this direction as well. and one more procedural point i wanted you to clarify, the fact that both ukraine and moldova have started accession negotiations, does this mean that we are following the same program with moldova, or does it simply mean that we are at... the same stage, more everyone moves in their own way, well, the experience of how the european union conducts waves of expansion, and they are happening

as an extension, suggests that quite often it still concerns a whole group of countries, and for us it is at the same time a possible, well , positive possibility of a certain internal inter-country competition and stimulus. mutual encouragement and mutual learning with moldova. i would like georgia to catch up with us as well, and for it to succeed. in fact, it will be a serious breach and a crisis in the post-soviet space, which putin would so much like to drag into his labs. and the fact that you mentioned that it is too early to fall into etherealism, very much and a lot of work, how real are the chances when... ukraine, being in a state of war, can become a member of the european union? and i still count on the fact that we will be able to end

the war with victory. much earlier , before we manage to overcome the path to membership in the european union, let's still be realistic, let's objectively assess our capacity, realizing how much work lies ahead, on average between the candidate status and the acquisition of membership in different countries , it took about seven years, and i would like so that ukraine does not exceed this average indicator, ideally. and it was the fastest in the case of finland, it was 3.5 years, i don't think we can count on such a short period of time, so i hope that we will end the war and enter the european union strong and confident, rebuilt. by the way, in this status, when membership negotiations began with the country, are there any political features, perhaps political preferences for this country? ah... well, maybe,

maybe, now the summit does not require consent all 27 countries to invite, for example , the leader of ukraine, do all procedural points in the european union remain the same in relation to ukraine, absolutely, all procedural points remain the same in relation to ukraine, i think that all geopolitical, political advances we have already received, and now is the time for such technical, in many ways complex, toral work, many dialogues between individual member countries and ukraine, this means that we need to prepare a serious negotiating team, we need to involve all specialists as much as possible, who we are, who we have in various areas, from civil society, from business associations, from various political forces, and really move as a team to the point that we continue to succeed, well, just as

convincingly... to move towards our goal. mrs. ivan, well, i can't help but ask, since we have the opportunity to talk with you, about the situation in the states, because the news from there is not as uniform as from the european union, and mr. fesenko noted that an example of the unity of european officials could be an example for senators and from democratic republican party. how do you assess the chances that by the new year, the ice will break, so to speak... in the matter of another package of aid to ukraine in the united states? very, very, very cautiously, we understand that , unfortunately, a large part of this whole discussion, it has to do with the internal political debate within, within the political establishment of the united states and is directly related to the election race, which unfortunately has already begun in earnest and are being conducted, although the elections for the president of the united states and... the senate

and congress will take place in november of next year, but today we see that ukraine, well, has become a hostage to some issues that have not been resolved for decades in the american political system, well, in particular, there is a policy regarding migration, and it is very painful to watch this, because what i would have liked to have been more ambitious and ... the task of the national interest of the united states, which will affect both the united states directly and the world, they still prevailed in this discourse, and a decision was made on systematic and substantial military and financial aid to ukraine. i think that actually what we see, how the russian dictator acts today, what we see from him, from his

press conference. the so-called press conference that he gave there today and emphasized that his goals of denazification and demilitarization of ukraine, they have not changed at all, i believe that it should be read as the genocide of ukrainians continues to be a priority for the russian dictator, i would i wanted these calls or calls rather our partners heard and realized that if ukraine does not manage to survive. then they will be forced to fight, struggle, die, because putin will not stop only on the territory of our country. heard, mrs. ivano, thank you very much for joining the broadcast, ivana kushensa, people's deputy from european solidarity and head of the committee on european integration, was in touch with us, thank you, well, we are moving on, and just now to our .