bardyk, let's watch and listen together. good evening, we are from ukraine. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhii rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next two hours , we are talking about the war, about victory, about ukraine. the world is in the program today. in a historic decision, the european union supported the start of negotiations on ukraine's membership. what path awaits our country before joining the eu? bypassing hungary's veto on providing money to ukraine, do western countries have a plan b? the struggle for aid to ukraine continues. the us senate postponed the christmas break. will it be possible to find a compromise? protet.

we will talk about other things during our broadcast and during the next hour we will have the diplomat and politician valery chaly on the phone. the second part of our program will feature journalists olga len and bohdan butkevich. however, before starting our big conversation, let's watch a video about another meat attack by russian nazis, which ended in complete failure. the russian command launched an assault on ukrainian positions, at least where... armored vehicles from infantry and the armed forces of ukraine destroyed an armored group, it happened near the village of senkivka in the kharkiv region. let's see.

who is watching us live on youtube and facebook now, please like this video and subscribe to our pages on these platforms, in addition, throughout our entire program we are conducting a survey, we ask you this, do you believe the intro ukraine in nato, yes no, vote on youtube and you can vote by phone lines, if you are watching... us live now, please, or do you believe in the accession of ukraine to the eu, i apologize, yes, no, and if you believe, then vote by phone 0800 211 381 800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free. at the end of the program, we will sum up the results of this vote. so, the eu summit ended in brussels. which opened

the way for negotiations between ukraine and moldova, this summit was quite dramatic and continued for two days on december 14-15. our correspondent natalka stare pravo is currently in brussels. natalka, i congratulate you, please tell me with which ones this summit ends with emotions for the participants of the european union summit, because it is clear that... emotions in ukraine, moldova and in georgia, which was given candidacy for eu membership, are overwhelming people, but what do the participants of this summit say? i congratulate our viewers, yes, the summit has already ended, the official representatives of the european parliament and the european council have left, the previous days and nights were quite difficult for them. and sleepless, because

there were discussions around, it should be noted that the issue of ukraine itself was a priority, whether to allocate 50 billion euros and whether to start. negotiations on its accession to the eu, we can see that one issue has been resolved in principle, because they made, quite interestingly, they made this very decision to start negotiations on ukraine's accession, at that time orban was not in the hall, many jokes about it are spreading, maybe even the truth is that they are talking about the fact that the chancellor of germany offered... orban to simply leave the hall, as if to drink coffee, so that they could normally and calmly make a unanimous decision, which i must note, in fact, viktor orban uses, even abuses it like that

veto issues, he imposes it quite often, that is, it is not the first such case, and the leaders of european governments. are quite embarrassed by this abuse of the veto right and sooner or later they may get rid of viktor orbán, that is why there is a discussion that in the future viktor orbán can put a block on certain issues regarding ukraine, in fact the european leaders themselves are also embarrassed, and they will not be able it is tolerable, because even in the kular it is said, and a presidential commission. assures that one way or another, if such blocking from the side continues in the future hungary, hungary will simply be deprived of the right to vote and countries will vote without this country. thank you natalka, it was natalka staroprava, she is in brussels, where

the eu summit ended. next , we have a politician, a diplomat, and the extraordinary and plenipotentiary ambassador of ukraine to the united states. america in 2015-19 valery chaly. mr. valery, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our broadcast. i congratulate you, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. so, this summit of the european union turned out to be so unexpectedly dramatic, and let's start with orban, because orban, until the evening of december 14, it seemed that it would be orban's day and not ukraine's day and... how did the negotiations with the european union open, how do you perceive what happened at the summit and does this indicate that the european community was still inclined to that there should be a consolidated decision regarding ukraine and

moldova and georgia, and in principle, yesterday the european union made it clear to putin that it is not. games around ukraine's accession to the european union, which moldova should not be? i think so, this is a political decision, first of all it is shows that the european union is capable of making difficult decisions, this is the first, and here we can say that there are some rumors that france, germany, and their leaders, macron, scholz, that they are already what putin thinks. weak politicians, they showed otherwise. 26 countries have taken a consolidated stand now in this decision, but i will remind you that before ursula fonden, the european commission, there were decisions at all levels before that. the european union would be, well, so ashamed, if

it all collapsed at such a final level, it would indicate the weakness of the european union, so this is the part that they defended, and joseph barel, by the way, showed. yourself, you see, a very serious politician, so i congratulate the european politicians for showing what putin just says is weakness in them, no, they show that it is difficult to promote them there, but when they already go to this highway, then they are going, and this is a signal that they see ukraine and we will work together in such a difficult period, but with the intention of joining ukraine to, or we will join... the single european market of 550 million, the single european political, economic, i hope , safe space, so this is a very good signal, first of all to the kremlin, to moscow, and we understand that after this a completely different stage will begin, until the next political

decision, well, as the hungarians hope, i refer to the statement of another orbán, an adviser, said that another 70 votes, and there hungary will block everything. this is such a signal to moscow, why they abandoned putin now, and in fact, let 's be fair, what did orbán do alone. from the countries, well, represents the country that has equal rights with others, he speculated on the right to block, there is no such right of veto, we call it that, but there is such a right that consensus, that is, the rule of consensus, and here they found a legal solution for him, and we must give him credit by asking for his 10 billions at once and a program of 30 billion, he is like a simple geopolitical trader, i would say a trader in our way, he threw putin about... having now promised the russians that what will happen next, they will block everything possible, but the most important decision, in my

opinion, is political adopted, the european union demonstrated that he can find tools, then, by the way, the same thing happened during the vote on the 12th sanctions package, a political decision was made, despite the fact that now the austrian representative came out, so you understand, it all looks like. .. on the part of these representatives there is clowning, because they beg their questions, somewhere it is fair, somewhere, as in the case of orban, it is not, and as a result , the train is moving smoothly, so putin, who blackmailed ukraine, i will remind you, and the european union, on the eve of 2014, and in many respects the cause of the revolution of dignity, and in some ways and in many respects the war of the russian side was the weakness, the inability to divert ukraine from... the fatal path of development that was supported by the ukrainian people, and justice is now there, the people who went to the euromaidan,

the people who fought, who are now choosing ukraine's right to sovereign decision-making, they won. mr. valery, yesterday, in parallel with the meeting or summit of the european union , there was also a direct line of vladimir putin, and putin was very... praising both fico and orban, it would be interesting if he spoke about orban after what happened at the european union summit, well, it would be interesting to see the expression on putin's face at the same time, because putin was, it seems, convinced that orban would exercise his right and block this decision , because orbán constantly said that this is impossible, and we will do everything, as it legally passes, that is, there is a consensus decision. and if one voter goes, for example, to get coffee or to the toilet and does not vote

at that moment, it is still in his absence, despite the fact that hungary does not voted, it’s still a consensus decision , right, that is, it’s not said that one person was there , well, he was absent, or he, if he didn’t vote neither for, nor against, there is still a consensus, right, well, let’s not involve all the viewers in these these eh... are small, well, if such details, the main thing is that there should be no vote against, then they found all the cunning moves, no objection, one more condition should be that the country, well, if he, for example, missed the meeting , and then said that i just missed it because i couldn't, well, make it in time, then that would be a different story, since he came out and he participated, he came out, he knew perfectly well what was happening, there was no voice in the negative. oh, they all found this loophole, it's actually a loophole, well, it's also such maneuvers, they didn't think much about it before,

but the european union is now thinking about what to do next, because there will be more enlargements, i really hope that the next enlargement will include ukraine , and therefore the rule of consensus, unfortunately, it no longer works so directly in many issues, by the way, a qualified majority already uses the european union in issues that are not at this level, and at the political level, that is why the european union will... move in this way , after all, one country, and it was known, by the way, one country will not block political decisions that have passed all stages, supported by france, germany and all the other countries of the european union will not block, so orban, that he should not look like this situation in the future, when he will be deprived of money, he simply complained like this, and let him be the leader of belgium. and said, let orbán no longer comment on what orbán did, so let's go

let's go, i'll say something that may sound unpopular now, i said a lot of negative things about orbán before, and now i'll say, after all, if he didn't come out, there would be a problem, and the fact that he came out played into his hand to everyone, so this shows that a solution can still be found, not in terms of appealing to his conscience or his... some kind of morality, no, but within such a pragmatic framework, no, you can't do it that way , as it should be, you won't get thunderstorms, this is the only policy that can be with this leadership, and russia... i was counting on the fact that he would push to the end, but he changed them. the only thing is that now they will swear to russia that they will block as much as possible, wherever they can, so we need to be ready for this, the situation may get complicated, moreover, the worst thing is if they manage to drag some other countries to their side, then it will be difficult , one country, i

am sure, will not block the issue, no matter what, if there is a political solution, here are all the procedures, pra... rules, believe me, i have already seen it more than once in america, if there is the will of the people and a great political decision , well, one person cannot, especially one who undermines the euros-union, undermines why, because it does not implement a common foreign policy, a common defense policy, hungary does not implement it, it cannot be excluded from the european union, because it is geostrategically unprofitable, but he has already violated a lot of things, they understand it, so in principle, he and siarta, he also duplicates him in the ministry of foreign affairs, and travels to moscow for a report on this matter, they are in moscow now cover with mats, believe me, but there is nothing for them, they got their money and be happy. let's listen, mr. valery, to orban's two public speeches, because this is also indicative in principle of what he says and says about the fact that

ukraine's quick accession to the eu will have unpredictable consequences. let's listen to orban. the government 's current position is that the rapid accession of ukraine to the european union will have unforeseen consequences, and this does not correspond to the interests of either hungary or the european union. and about the fact that there are 75 opportunities to block ukraine's accession to the european union remains, he also talked about it, and he told how he tried to convince for 8 hours. other leaders of the european union do not support the official start of negotiations with ukraine, because this decision is allegedly untimely. they could not be convinced. one of their arguments was that there are 26 of them and i am one. but the decisive argument was that hungary would not lose anything, as the national parliaments would have the final say, so the

hungarian parliament could vote. there will be 75 more cases where a country from... can stop this, mr. valeriu, what happened on december 14 in 2023, in fact, this is such a public, public slap to putin, because moldova also enters the negotiation process with the european union, and its candidacy for membership in the european union was received by georgia. so, taking into account what putin said... at the same annual press conference, and what he said in general about the non-enlargement of europe and nato's euro-atlantic structures, what did putin get as a result of the results of this summit? he received a very serious slap. i

will remind you once again, do you remember putin's blackmail, when there was still an association agreement. and actually, by the way. should justice be given to those who were consistently in favor of european integration, and to those who made decisions in the government, in particular some people who are sitting in the parliament now, to block our movement to europe, it was a decision about yanukovych, but there are names not only the prime minister, but there are other names, in particular boyka's minister of energy, yuriy boyko, who is currently sitting in the parliament, and he is even included by some, well, imagine, yuriy... included in the statement of the parliament an appeal to this summit to vote , i'm not i think he has changed, i spoke with him then, as i now remember that conversation in davos after this decision, i then expressed my thoughts on why this was a fundamentally, well, wrong decision even before the revolution, how it began, but no , he was sure that this is

all very correct, i believe that such people have no right now to talk about anything european at all. to speak, she, they should leave ukrainian politics, because they blocked to the point that they beat people, beat students, killed people on the maidan, and it is necessary for this justice to be, it is necessary to remember everyone step, that is why putin then used all these yuri boykas and other people to block our way to europe, and it was a difficult blackmail for him, i will explain to you, russia, which is losing ukraine, yes, we are waging a war, but also in economic terms . putin was shown a report where he saw that in terms of demographics and economics, russia needs a market of more than 200 million in order to survive in their isolationist regime. the 140 market is insufficient, they will degrade in 10-15 years, he wanted ukraine and wants it, why does he steal children, why does he take people away from them

the problem is, they must have more people on their territory, why is he annexing, occupying territories, precisely because of this, and that is why he then blackmailed by all means so that ukraine would not suddenly go the other way, and it happened, and now it is a slap in the face to him from... those european politicians whom he actually considers weak, generally considered incompetent , incapable of anything, he spoke about it more than once, he even blurted it out in public, i will not quote these shameful quotes, but also minister lavrov and vladimir putin, they simply kicked the europeans into the dirt politicians, and got a result, by the way, i want to congratulate the europeans, they seem a little like that to us, well, we want quick decisions from them, but when they already do it, they already find both legal and

political grounds, beautifully done , well done, well, if we look at this whole story that unfolded literally these days before our eyes, then we saw such a putin who tried to tell russians to everyone, like europeans and world leaders. they misbehave and cannot make any decisions, that he dominates it post-soviet space, but can these first steps towards the european union be perceived as the first steps towards the euro-atlantic structures as well, because it is clear that membership in the european union in the long run can, or maybe even in parallel, also give membership in the north atlantic alliance, this means of ukraine and moldova. and georgia , you asked a difficult question, because i, for example, am not sure that

european integration can be the driver, the security of the umbrella, membership in nato, it helps in this as a parallel process, but there is one trap, i heard in in conversations with colleagues from france, by the way, even the minister of legal affairs of france openly spoke about this, at one of the forums, i remember, our vice prime minister was sitting there. minister at this forum, i don't remember, this is one of the security forums, the munich one may have had some special measures, she said: why do you need nato, let's let there be eu structures, and then you will ensure security, this is a trap, the eu, unfortunately, having a very similar structure, duplicating, nato, but it is still the same, the eu cannot close security issues, that's why i would say. said in a different way, so far my belief is as follows: without a safe and reliable system, i see today what is very difficult to achieve so far, this is

collective defense, there is nato in europe, without america in europe, without common canada, other allies, hardly will it be possible to ensure european integration and reliable protection, because european integration is now very good... for investors, all countries, even china, by the way, which saw a bridge to europe through belarus, and now i see that everything is broken and everything is not right, so all this can go on for a long time european integration, but without security , without investments that will be protected, without the receipt of funds for reforms, it is unlikely to be effective, therefore, in fact , a completely different stage begins, i think that instrumental and such specific issues are moving into the sphere of european integration, of the negotiation process with europe, well, with

the european union, and political efforts should now be redirected specifically to securing membership in nato, or i don’t know what other model, where ukraine is not the only one standing against possible further ones, just aggressive steps, therefore... precisely, i would return yes, precisely in terms of political choice, this is a very good signal, now the next step would be to take, to ensure security, and then return again to economic rapprochement, so this sequence would be correct, well without stopping, of course, the european integration process, i am talking more about ukrainian resources, where they should be directed, because a lot was invested here, well , look: volodymyr zelenskyy just visited the usa, not much has changed there in the usa, but him, or maybe his conversation with orban helped something, i don’t know, but he talked

with... but even this shows that we are more successful on this track of european integration, yes, why, throw all resources there, we have that the same office in the cabinet of ministers, it is also for issues of european and euro-atlantic integration, but everything is focused on european membership, now let me congratulate you, dear colleagues and government officials, let 's join the political-euro-atlantic integration with the same enthusiasm. mr. valery, let's explain to our viewers, that is, the start negotiations have already been given, that is, from next week, ukraine can start these big negotiations, negotiations will be with all members of the european union, 27 countries, that is, separate tracks, that is, with each country, ukraine must hold negotiations, what should happen as a result of these changes? yes, actually. in fact,

in fact, to be honest, then in the future we will have less such pathetic and bravura news, because the following will happen: when you open the section agrarian, yes integration, the agrarian sector, agriculture is called, then you see that immediately there is a serious collision and competition with countries, for example, in the production of various grains. wheat and everything else with poland arises there, it arises with slovakia , it arises with our neighbors, with whom, well , we seem to be very close in terms of security, then there is production, there is meat, livestock farming from france, that is, i was once a long time ago, this it was the 90s, i was in this sixth directorate, which deals with these issues, and then the membership of the next

enlargement was being considered, i will tell you that to get normal results for your country is enormous efforts and we still need to be able to defend our positions so that we do not close ours, i will say that the very existence of our agricultural production is at stake in the form in which it is now, it will no longer exist in this form, it will have to to change, to adjust from the rules of the european union, there is a positive, but the standards will be you... the quality of products is higher, the salary is higher, also in these sectors it will approach gradually, that is, it is not one year and not two, as minister shmegal said, i am against his statements about two years are unrealistic, we even have two years, i will tell you honestly, two years is not even enough for us, even two years is not enough, but they say accelerated entry, but i am not sure, we need not accelerated entry,

we need accelerated joining nato. we need to adapt our accession to the eu so that we gradually adapt to the new rules for us, so that it does not kill our producers in industry, in agriculture, it is possible, and these standards, when you start reading them, of course, well, i will tell you honestly, we we are still very far away in some sectors, if we are in some sections such as common foreign policy and security, we have been fulfilling the common ones for a long time, we are better than hungary, so i will say this, we... better than hungary, we fulfill this section of the european union, but this is one section , and there are more than 30 of them, you understand, there is competition policy, there are rules, well, you know, we constantly have questions, ownership of intellectual property, this is very seriously monitored by the european union, and it will have to pay, we have the internet now, despite all the problems, one of the cheapest in the world, that is, there is already a little bit

different, that is... for everything you have to pay for quality, for reliability, stability, but this is a market, it is a market of more than 500 million, with our participation there will be enough for 550, this is the only way for ukraine , we have no other way, because the country has 35 million citizens, it cannot develop without free trade, and when we have this market, then we have a completely different story, and i will tell you this, the negotiation process will be very difficult , and not those... with individual countries, this and with brussels, this and with officials of the eu, there should be a powerful team for each section, it is somewhere like poland, several thousand experts, but when we reach this path, and there will be the next political decision on joining the eu, immediately after that we will receive a huge impetus for the development of the country, as it was received by poland and other countries for...