these and for a shorter period, in particular not for four, but for two years, in order to later review this decision and, as the diplomats said, to have , accordingly, such leverage to put forward their demands or conditions again, and so, if we approve macrofin for four years at once, then such an opportunity will not arise during them. now with regard to the financial situation in ukraine, which you mentioned, it has yet to receive the last three-year financial aid package from the european union, which was approved accordingly a year ago, which is... 17 billion for 2023, and this tranche, which i am talking about, which is still to come, is 1.5 billion euros, and it will come, as the president of the european commission said today, summing up the summit, in the coming days, adding that this will actually help ukraine to hold on at the beginning of next year, in the meantime here they will look for spare options. this is important for the construction of a small but important bridge, and we will take advantage of the time we have. until the next european council, and either we

will reach the agreement of 27 member states at it, or we will activate alternatives, which we will work on in the meantime. consistent, predictable reliable financing is important for ukraine, but also for the business environment and investors. so, as long as ukraine holds on, ursula funderline's team will intensify work on plan b, that is, a financial program by the 26 countries of the european union, because that's it. the summit received a commitment from them that the funds will be available, and what exactly the scheme is possible, i will say here that the head of the european commission did not update, but earlier they discussed the plan of monthly or rather quarterly payments under the budget guarantees of the national governments of the member countries of the european union 26, respectively. it is procedurally more complicated, not as, say, long-term and predictable as plan a, i.e. 50 billion from the budget of the european union for four years, actually. they are fighting

for him, if you can put it that way, but the president of the european council, despite the fact that in financial history, as you can see, the hungarian veto could not be overcome this time, he remains optimistic, says he is convinced that there will be a consensus, when asked by journalists why charles michel in general, so sure of this hinted, well, as i understood, at least at yesterday's reception, which shocked everyone here, because the history of these summits has not seen the so-called constructive abstention for the past several decades, so exactly, constructive abstention - this is such a beautiful name for viktor orban's exit from the hall where they voted to open negotiations with ukraine, in particular, on its accession to the eu . listen to charles michel's answer for yourself. we are determined to use all possible arguments and will interact with respect for the different opinions that are on the table of the european council. i think yesterday's debate helped us understand what they can be to be tools and arguments that could be used in preparing the next meeting of the european council. viktor orban left the hall, however

, he promised to return when ukraine takes further steps to meet the european union, and with finances, you know, he will not have such an opportunity, since there is only one solution, as i already noted, for four years, please , zoryano, what does it mean that he left and promised to return, because according to various, so to speak, forecasts, ukraine can join the eu, well, in the best case scenario... in the 30th year, well, maybe something will change, and something will speed up or, on the contrary, slow down this decision, viktor orban hopes that he will still be the prime minister by then, and will be able to return to the hall when the next time they vote on ukraine, or something it was meant, actually, in relation to his tenure as prime minister, i will now remember when the last elections were held in hungary, because i was in budapest at that time and covered them, it was, it was the spring of 2022, that is..

.actually at the beginning of a full-scale invasion, and the cadence, if i'm not mistaken, of the hungarian prime minister and the government in particular, the elected government lasts for 5 years, that is, as you understand, the next time a new government will be elected in hungary not soon, that is, it is not a country where elections are actually not far away, unlike several other member states of the european union, well, he left, but he promised to return, immediately after that, when this technique was used yesterday, you remember that... then the diplomats said that it was the idea of ​​the german chancellor, that it was necessary to apply this constructive maintenance, which consists in the fact that viktor orbán does not vote for, but also does not veto, that is, he does not vote against, but he is simply not physically present in the place where this decision was made, so after that baláš orbán is political, it is the namesake of viktor orbán, but this is his political adviser to the hungarian prime minister, he made such a statement on hungarian television, if i'm not mistaken, that... and even they

calculated what else, when this european integration process of ukraine will continue, in particular, is still ahead a lot of steps, well, in particular approval of the negotiating framework, such as... such , that is, the technical start of negotiations on the accession of ukraine and the european union, then intergovernmental, intergovernmental consultations must take place, then the screening of legislation, then there are a huge 35 chapters, and in order to move from this stage to the stage , this should be approved again by the leaders of the member states of the european union, that is, orbán's kindness will really be needed by ukraine more than once in order to get closer to the european union on its european integration path. bala shurban said that in order to in order for these decisions to be approved accordingly, it will be necessary to go through this path about 70 more times, when the good of the member countries will be needed, when a consensus will be needed, and there one way or another viktor orbán will be at the table, well, okay, the hungarian government, this will be

the next prime minister the year after the next election, as you really pointed out to my colleague, this is a rather long process, another hungarian prime minister will be possible, but whoever will be in any. case, the good of hungary is needed, that is why viktor orban, by the way, commenting on what happened later, he spoke with hungarian media, he said the following phrase that i can put on the brakes at any moment, this is a quote, and that this was not the final decision on ukraine's membership and that, in fact, even the opening of negotiations with it , he neither supported nor supports, but here i will only zoryano share with you the jokes that are going around in ukrainian... so to speak, political circles, that viktor orban, apparently, this trick spied on ukrainian people's deputies, when they do not want to vote for something and at the same time do not want to press the red button, they simply leave the hall sessions, but viktor orban did roughly the same thing. thank you very much, zoryana stepanenko from brussels.

well, we will talk further about the further european prospects of ukraine , which in practice will mean the decision of the european union to start negotiations on accession to... the eu . kostiantyn eliseyev, the extraordinary plenipotentiary ambassador of ukraine, and i will remind you, in the past, the deputy minister of foreign affairs, joins our broadcast , representative of ukraine to the european union and deputy head of the presidential administration. good evening. i congratulate you. mr. yelisev, how not was the news that ukraine was opening the way to negotiations on eu accession a pleasant surprise for you? well, i guess i won't be here... extraordinary as they say, but i took it as a sensational christmas miracle, because let's be honest, not all of us expected such a historic decision to be made in the way that we

should have accepted, and so indeed, you remember, even yesterday experts began to analyze plan b, plan v, plan d and so on, but after... suddenly came out with his super positive news, super sensational news, president of the european council michel, of course, it became a super-emotional event with and this is our joint victory, by the way, this is a historic decision not only for ukraine, but also for the european union, well, to some extent , a historic decision, probably for viktor orbán , do you have any idea what is behind this trick and... and this show, the one he played in brussels on the sidelines of the eu summit, he left, came back, and at the same time declared that everything does not support the opening negotiations well, you know, this decision of the european council will enter into the story, how, uh, how, uh, with the help

of coffee, or a cup of coffee, it was possible to solve and resolve an essential, geopolitical problem, we are talking about a decision about... the beginning of negotiations with ukraine, and it was indeed a creative decision, and i think that in this way it was allowed to save orbán's face, who , unfortunately, in the end still blocked the decision on the budget, where we should have also received 50 billion euros for the next four years until 2027, but this situation one more time... that we have to work with the hungarian side, we have to to work systematically, carefully, comprehensively, that the diplomacy of the fires, which was resorted to by the official kyiv, which in the last literally minutes or hours before the european council began to establish direct communication with the hungarian

authorities, this must, as they say, be prevented in the future, i believe that hungary will remain our... neighbor will remain a member of the eu and nato, and as your colleague correctly noted in the previous inclusion that hungary still remains... of the european union, but one more element , i would, i would also advise intensifying the work not only with hungary, but with other partners, in particular slovakia, there is also austria, there is also the dutch factor in the context of the victory of the wilders party in the elections, so let's be honest , that it is necessary... to strain and not to rest on the laurels of this phoria, but to continue active purposeful work, and this is a challenge for our

diplomacy. well, in principle , orbán has already demonstrated that he can not only leave the hall during the vote, he can actually do so use the right of veto, and in particular he imposed a decision on long-term support of ukraine from the european union, it is about 50 billion euros, why is this for him, what profit does he see in this for himself, because as far as i understand, this money is... money ukraine needs it very much, although the european union says that they will return to this issue in january, but we see that orban has already vetoed it, and is it not a fact that he will not use this tool again? yes, agree with you, he will try to use this veto tool, but so what regarding the financial issue, i would still like to reassure you, i think that this is not a tragedy for us, i think that at the next... extraordinary meeting of the european council, which will be held in january, a compromise will still be found, and

i think that ukraine will not be left without money, especially since next week the european commission will provide ukraine with another tranche of macro-financial assistance in the amount of 1.5 billion euros, so we will successfully close this year by receiving another macro-financial assistance, if all... the eurocouncil will still approve the multi-year financial perspective for 24-27 years, then in february we will start receiving financial support in this predictable way. as for january, i think you've already heard that many eu member states have announced their willingness to provide bilateral assistance to us, plus i 'll add to that the norwegian government's decision that they announced this week. to give us a billion euros in the near future to close the holes in our budget to

finance salaries, pensions and social payments to ukrainian citizens. and if in the context of aid to move a little across the ocean, i will remind you that the american congress has not yet approved a financing package for ukraine, how disturbing is this story for you, what do you think, will it be resolved positively for ukraine, i understand already after... christmas holidays and here, of course, ms. vlasta, we return again to yesterday's decision of the european council, because in fact, first of all, this decision dealt a powerful blow to the myth regarding the so-called fatigue from ukraine. and secondly, by the way, with such a decision, the european union essentially went into such a geopolitical counteroffensive, because let's be honest, before that it was in such a state of deaf defense. and this is exactly the solution. will have an important influence on washington, because by its decision, in fact , brussels has clearly shown that today brussels

is a so-called trendsetter in the issue of ukraine , and i think that in this way it showed washington how to solve existing problems, because in fact the essence of the problem remains the same as it was in the eu and in washington, so i'm optimistic about washington's position, at the end of the day, i think everyone is healthy. the political forces will just use the decision of the european council as an argument , and of course i hope that a solution will be found in the issue of financing ukraine, i have no doubts even about that. we literally have 3 minutes left, but i can't help but ask you about this, the us congress has approved a law that prohibits any president of the united states from withdrawing from nato, from nato without the approval of the senate and congress. tell me please, is this already a preparation for the possible presidency of donald trump , who, as we know, is quite skeptical

about nato, and even the american media suggests that if he becomes president, he may actually propose some ideas like withdrawing from nato, well or some reforms, at least what do you think about it? well, first of all, this is the sovereign right, as they say, of the congress to take, secondly, i think that this is a very far-sighted strategic decision, and even to a certain extent, probably... they also took into account the ukrainian experience, let me remind you that at the end of the term of the fifth president, he also initiated changes to the constitution, which clearly states that the course is for the eu and nato. is a key task not only of the government and parliament, but of any future president of ukraine. i think that such is a normal political practice for civilized democratic countries, and therefore this decision can only be welcomed, because in this way a fuse is created against any extraordinary, unexpected decisions

of future presidents, but i would not say what is established for today , who... will be the next president of the united states, i think that the american people will democratically make their sovereign choice, but nevertheless, this step should be considered as a safeguard that the current, let's say, the us government fears that the future president may to really withdraw from nato, to make such an independent decision, well, you know, it is very difficult for me to imagine, because the united states is strong because it is institutionally very capable and... institutionally very strong, and therefore the president is an important position after all , a role, but still there is an institution, a role institutions should not be despised either, but the situation is such that such institutions create such a system, a balance that will not allow any president to

radically change a decision that goes against even the same us constitution. i thank you very much for... kostyantyn eliseyev, ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary of ukraine, was on radio liberty. thank you! that's it, we 've discussed the most important events, historical, i would even say, decisions that took place this week, the week that passes, finally, i want to ask you to subscribe to the channels radio svoboda is on the internet, we are on social networks, instagram, telegram, facebook, viber, and also like this broadcast. in this way you will support our work and support independent journalism. thank you for your attention, and svoboda live will be back on the air on monday. do ordinary things become unreal? heavy bags are not for

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the espresso channel. each drone of our ukrainian soldiers is a unique tool for adjusting artillery or a means of destroying the enemy in the eyes of intelligence. and against this background, it is unequivocally clear that the outcome of a battle or one or another operation on each section of the front depends on the skills and skill of a specific operator, a specific calculation of a uav. and now ukraine, more precisely, companies that manufacture , e assignment, make significant efforts to ensure that ukrainian fighters get an advantage in drones both in quantity and quality, and at the same time, the other side of the coin is the corresponding need to increase the number of trained operators. now a number of leading brigades , in particular the third separate assault brigade, which

operates, in particular the well-known tera unit, or the 92 assault brigade, which ... operates a company of unmanned attack systems achilles are now becoming battalions, that is, they triple their quantitative capabilities, so they need more operators and have already applied almost openly to all our potential military about the fact that they want to see a really large number of operators in their ranks, that is, precisely about the peculiarities of operator training, about the successes, problems and challenges, about what... the drone manufacturers themselves play in this process , as well as about the role and place of schools and operator training centers, we will talk about this in our next military program, my name is... zguryts, director of the information and consulting company defense express, which, together with espresso channels, strives highlight the most relevant trends in the life of our armed forces and the defense-industrial complex. and now

we are joined by denys cherednychenko, he is the co-owner of the production innovation company deviro. mr. denis, i congratulate you, i am glad to see and hear you. good day. greetings to each other. your company and deviro products are actually well known to the military, but i would like to. you first briefly described what samples of unmanned systems your company is currently supplying to the defense forces, so that our viewers would have an idea of ​​what you and i let's talk further. currently, the main product of our company is the leleka 100 unmanned aerial system, which has been officially put into service and supplied to the armed forces of ukraine since 2016. and then you... the question arises as to how the training system for your complexes is currently built, whether it is through the training centers of the armed forces, or through training at

the enterprise’s own base, and then, if there are options, when the complex is purchased by volunteers for our forces defense, which of these training methods does your company implement? training system external pilots-operators to our... complex, it is built on a multi-level level, if we say for volunteer supplies, then we exclusively conduct it at our own training center, and for the armed forces of ukraine, we cooperate with state training centers, uh, and we also have our own certified training center, which has already received permission from the state aviation service of ukraine with... according to the approved training program, that is, this means that we issue state certificates during the training process

sample, which allow external pilot operators to receive the necessary military accounting specialty and corresponding allowances to their salaries. that is, i clarify that your internal center is certified and allows you to satisfy all the formal procedures before the general staff, and in fact, any operator who studies with you already comes with this mustache, which then allows the troops to clearly stand in a certain area on on the front line. pilot operators after our training at our training center. receive a state-style certificate that would allow them to obtain the necessary military-registered specialty and receive the corresponding monetary allowances, well

, i will just repeat this, because it is important, after you we will have another conversation with one representative of the center, i would like to know how they are doing it happens, and then the question is, how long does the training process last for your leleka1 basic complexes, the training program, which is... established by the state aviation service of ukraine, it provides for about a month, a calendar month of training, in in the process of which pilots and operators go through both the theoretical part and the practical part related to the direct control of our product and receive, among other things, the necessary basic skills for combat use, that is, we have ours. the training program provides all the levels that allow the specialist, after he already receives his complex, to be useful on the

battlefield. but now, i understand that you have, after all , the number of complexes that are manufactured much more than it was before the start of the war. do they have time for this preparation process operators by increasing the pace of production of certain samples, at the moment , the queue for operator training is about a month and a half ahead, and thanks to the fact that the state training centers are also working, we are more or less keeping up with volumes of production, but if we conduct training, then the operator is already prepared for use. after the state training centers, we always try to invite people to us in order to give them the necessary knowledge, which

gives... gives rise to changes in the complex, i.e. the latest changes in the software , somewhere in the operational part, that is, in order to bring the operators up to the level of a modern complex, well, that is, in fact, state centers, if they carry out preparation for your complexes, then they take as a basis some certain basic version of the stork, which is now different , and you then refine it yourself, but going back to the question of state centers, how do you generally assess now... well, the level of training of operators at state centers, are there any nuances or systemic things that should be improved so that indeed, to achieve the most effective result, and this is a very broad issue, because unfortunately, at the moment , state educational centers are not able to provide themselves with the necessary material and technical base,

the learning process itself is not for those who are not some kind of secret, it is constantly accompanied by some kind of damage to educational equipment , and predicting in advance how many educational complexes will be damaged during the course, it is not important at all, because it directly depends on the reflection of personal qualities certain cadets, so our... our own training center has such a great advantage that we are not limited in the number of our training complexes, and we can repair them, literally, if something was damaged there during the training day, then tomorrow or the day after tomorrow it will be restored and will be used again by our instructors, together with the cadets, in the government training centers in the...

logistically it is very limited, and if there is any serious damage there, it takes some time in order to restore all this, and including from this, there is another problem related to the fact that the approach to education here is fundamentally different from the approach to education in state educational centers, which is what i mean ? instructors in state training centers are, after all, primarily military, today he can be used there as an instructor, we can make an assumption somewhere that during his working week he can be transferred to some general duties there, as for a military employees, and there is no such thing

a creative approach, a creative... a personal approach to each cadet, as we do, and i also heard that sometimes there are instructors in state centers there who have low financial rates there, that is, in fact , sometimes they are not very interested in delving into the possibilities com of each complex or the characteristics of each cadet, what are your impressions of this component of the activity of state centers, in my opinion, the material support of instructors... in the form of wages, this may be one of the factors, but still, er, is not this the main thing, in my opinion, because our instructors, they are mostly also ex-military or specialists in state or military, i'm sorry , civil or military aviation, that is, they are professional people, but... we give them the opportunity

for creative development, that is, we have there is no such subordination and such discipline in relation to our instructors, which is present in state educational centers, we have no concept of the need to carry out any senseless procedures, even if they are prescribed somewhere... in some books there, and we try to give the most practical knowledge, that is, it can be compared with the education system , let's say that in our ukrainian universities, when there a student has to study a lot of extra subjects along with his professional ones, but if you take some european universities there, it goes

specifically... socialization so that people...