i am a uav operator, i save lives and teach others. i destroy enemy shaheds during airstrikes. i am a driver. i am an infantryman. our tasks are different. the goal is one. choose your specialty and fill out the questionnaire on the website of the national guard, together we will win. welcome and welcome. congratulations, dear viewers, so 19 is already 19, the part of the broadcast that natalya and i always wait for begins, a big conversation, again we can't move away from... the international track, but

finally, you know, we've been waiting for a lot of good events, we hope that more we will have a few good ones ahead of us , we will insert guests, but come on, well, i think that most of our viewers already know who we always come to us for these international big broadcasts, because we always have people changing, so you can see permanent residents there are none here, there are no permanent ones, but nevertheless, you know, there are permanent topics, that is why there are permanent experts on these topics, and we still cannot get out of these topics. therefore valery kluchuk, political expert, good evening, glad to see you, oleksandr kraev, expert center ukrainian prism, good evening, oleksandr, and taras zagorodnia, managing partner of the national anti-crisis group. and this guy is out of his sleeve, out of his pocket, we won't start with the guests here, right, natalya? yes, dmytro koleba, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, will be on the air now. mr. dmitry, we congratulate you, we hope you can hear us well, if you can still see it, it means real television.

mr. dmytro, look, i will immediately, if possible, start with the numbers, the financial consequences of ukraine's full membership in the current multi-year financial program for 21-27 years will amount to approximately 130 to 190 billion euros for the eu, of which 70 to 90 billion will be allocated to agricultural subsidies and 50 to 90 billion to cohesion policy, this is me... i read you an extract from the analysis of the institute of german economics, tell me, please, taking into account the figures that were heard, what is the profit for ukraine from the status that ukraine received yesterday? we are not one step, a giant leap closer to membership in the european union, there are two phases left, negotiations and ratification. vati agreements on

introduction and all, ukraine is a member of the european union and with all the corresponding consequences for its stability, for economic development, for the protection of the rights and freedoms of citizens. ugh. mr. minister, please tell me the topic of orban , you know, this is the impression, i already said today that he was pushed out of the way, but he did not go anywhere, and the most unpleasant thing for us is that he uses the ukrainian topic to divide and bring confusion into the european alliances, this is... the european union that we need, this is still the only front that we are so strong supports how do you see it, is there any antidote in the european union regarding this person, and is it possible that they at least have an understanding that something must be done about it? yesterday, the eurocouncil won this victory, opening negotiations on membership not only for the sake of ukraine, but primarily for the sake of it.

because there is an understanding that the way to europe's security and prosperity is its expansion, but secondly, viktor orbán could not be allowed to block principled decisions when the rest of europe is in agreement, and that is why this was a principled, principled battle not only for ukraine, but also for europe itself, and having won in it, finding such a non-standard diplomatic... europeans, the leaders of other european countries have shown that they are able to find a way out of the most difficult situations and tame the most prominent irritants and destabilizers, well, you see, you you say that this time, for the future , this factor is not going anywhere, there is an understanding of what to do with it in the future, because he has already stated that he also plans to block ukraine's movement into the eu in the next steps. the same

as we did before, system work and on the result, we will solve everything, life is like that, it constantly throws us various problems, but we always solve them... remember, once yanukovych refused to sign the association agreement, and it seemed that everything was done, then signed the agreement, then the netherlands refused to ratify the association agreement, you remember, and was reinforced by the decision on the referendum, but this problem was also overcome, then they refused to give us the status of a candidate, they said, let's give you something like a half, here a semi-candidate. but this problem was overcome, received full status, and now the same, we were offered some half-solutions, compromises, formulations, and they said that the level of the hungarian problem is so high that it is better to accept it, because you will have nothing

at all, but nevertheless we got everything we wanted , and so on, we will work to always get what ukraine needs, there will be problems, it will be difficult. i'm not saying it will be easy, because this is a negotiation, it's a game of different players, uh, and our border neighbors, they're western, they understand very well that friendship is very ok, but the entry of ukraine into the eu is a serious intersection of our economic interests with them, and we will have to look for balanced solutions, ugh, mr. dmytro, if you already heard the word problem, then... i will allow myself that the word and skepticism was heard , and there is skepticism even in yesterday's event, and it is connected with the fact that the european union is an organization that is very, let's say this, aging at such a crazy pace, and it

is aging precisely with the russian-ukrainian war, as and organizations such as organization united nations, or as the red cross, or as human. rights watch, and that is , the organizations that should keep a certain agreed order, they are not coping in a certain way, and the ukrainians, well, maybe there is, i will say this word, a claim on the 24th of the 22nd year, the one that the european the union and our partners are now correcting it, and if it is hungary in the continuation of the hungarian theme that can destroy this order, then it is obvious that in the organization... well, not everything is so good, but yesterday the organization still showed that they put a fuse against hungary , tell me, ukraine, with which initiatives, i understand that it may not be ethical for ukraine, which stands at the door of the european union , to discuss this, but nevertheless, ukraine, does

it already have initiatives with which it will come like fresh blood to the european union, and maybe ukraine already has ideas on how to strengthen this... organization, you raised the topic seriously, here we need not just a big conversation, but a very big conversation, we have time, mr. dmytro, to put it briefly , of course, now everything seems, well, everything is looked at through the prism of war, yes it seems that we are at war, and, but, let 's remember two things, first, ah,... ukraine is a powerful army, and in a broader sense, it is a powerful security sector for decades, it will be the most powerful in the of the european union, that is, we will have the most powerful security and defense forces, and we will be

contributors, no, no, no, no, receive, give security to the european union, and secondly, we are... a huge market, a market and a huge economic power in of europe, so this is also our opportunity not to receive, to give this fresh blood, fresh opportunities to the european economy, into the european economic model, and thirdly, of course, no one can now accurately predict what the actual balance of power will be in the european union. after the accession of ukraine, and this is something that worries some people, because - let's say, well, just imagine, even the alliance of ukraine and poland, uh, in making certain decisions, uh, in

internal discussions in the european union, imagine the number of votes in the european parliament and in general the political influence of such a huge state, because all the countries that have recently integrated into... the eu, with all respect and sympathy for them, they are our great friends, but in terms of economic, quantitative human potential, in terms of security, well, they were... it was quite easy for the european union to absorb them. ukraine is a giant that greatly increases europe's capabilities, not only on the continent, but also in the world. it is so, if you briefly present where it is all moving. ugh. mr. dmytro, may i ask one last question. i want to ask about the 12th package of sanctions, whether it was agreed or not approved, whether there is anything new and strategically important, because we see that, unfortunately, the russian an armed vehicle, in particular, missile systems that fly to us... our heads have not gone anywhere, and there are sanctions that will deprive the military,

the russian military defense industry of some opportunities, but you are very right now to raise the topic, sanctions are an important track, of course, but now the most important track is the defense industry, ugh, and that's why i talk about it with my partners at every step, at every opportunity, because we need to transform, we need... an integral space of the defense industries of the countries , at least the european union and ukraine, plus usa canada. this is an extremely difficult task, but the problem is that each defense industry of a separate country cannot cope with the tasks and challenges created by the russian defense complex, which is currently working for the russian army, therefore... our policy will continue next year to the maximum

limit on sanctioning the access of the russian defense industry to technologies and raw materials by sanctioning instance instruments, and on the other hand, to increase cooperation between the defense industries of ukraine and our partner countries, and accordingly, under by cooperation i mean joint production. and shells and spare parts, these are two tracks that will be key in our work so that everything moves on the field at the political level, our colleagues there from the ministry of strategy and industry will work out these things at their professional, sectoral, sectoral level, but all politicians, all leaders now have to accept the idea that there should be a defense industry, there needs to be some level of cooperation between all defenses and industries so that this whole war machine has the ability to defeat the russian war

machine. well, we will thank you for these words. a good summary of the conversation. dmytro koleba, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, was in direct contact with us. thank you, mr. dmytro. back to the main event. well, look, so to speak, because we were all so congratulatory about yesterday's event, yes. and the beginning of the procedure for ukraine's accession to the european union, but in fact, if we speak, today we have a cool stable expression, like with adults, but if we speak with ukrainian society, as with adults, what after these greetings, let's still explain what, including unpleasant surprises, ukraine can expect in connection with what new rules, new rules. well, it is worth waiting for the example of our colleagues, even in non-military times, showed that few

people managed to go through this path painlessly, so in fact, we are talking about a huge, huge amount of work, and this is very obvious, if we even take the examples of european countries relatively successful ones that have already taken place, like truly european democracies, with relatively adequate economies, because we are often compared with poland, they say, look, corruption remained there, inflation is uncontrolled, even if we take. relatively stable, successful economies, it 's years and years, in many cases decades, because what these changes entail in the first place is almost full compliance, then we will explain, i think with colleagues, what almost full compliance means , the copenhagen and maastricht criteria, we like to mention only the copenhagen criteria, this is the openness and accountability of the authorities, this is the judicial branch of government, these are democratic societies and everything else that we constantly talk about, but there are also maustrian criteria that are not so popular, but at the same time... maybe even more difficult and important, this is a question of economic proportionality, this is a question of synchronizing

economic, customs and other aspects of the legislation, this is what in recent months has caused the greatest resonance with us, both with the poles, and with the hungarians, and with the slovaks, and with everyone else, and that is why, in fact, some of my colleagues, who are more concerned with european legislation, say about about 3 thousand new laws, new elements of what is called the harmonization of ukrainian european law. yes, of course, and we see that the verkhovna rada, if necessary, works very quickly, but still, this is a change in the procedure of work at the business-state level, at the business-civil society level. at the level of the state, civil society, i.e., this is a complete reformatting of what we call the social contract, and we cannot now say for sure how much of this self-screening there is, and the legislation of the ukrainian and european union, how much work is left there in percentage, it is actually very difficult to say, here are colleagues from several analytical centers, they conduct this screening, but again, very much so

in the general framework, well, they say that ukraine is, in principle, close to 55- 65% in... already meets the basic, here i emphasize the basic term, this is exactly what we are talking about, almost meet all the criteria, because it is difficult to remember a country that 100% met all the criteria when entering the eu, so we are aiming to the ideal, but we understand our realities, yes tell me, please, about yesterday's event, to what extent it covers the troubles that we are still experiencing due to the fact that 60 billion have still not been approved, and the finances for... the defense forces of the ukrainian army are not have arrived so far, does this mean that the european union, well , came out with a parallel proposal, they say , if it means no, not finances for weapons, then at least we will put it under the christmas tree for the ukrainians, well, look, even if orban

blocked, i'm for the audience, that is, you understand, and i'm the devil's advocate, and i'm with sides of the ske. and i am a lawyer for angels , so look, there is a mechanism to bypass orban’s ban on providing money, why they can do it simply not through the eu budget, but through national governments, and orban will stop at nothing here, because other skeptics who are in the european union, because you still have to understand the tricky game there, including, i'm sure that many countries in the european union also share the opinion of what orbán says, but since... orban, let him speak, he's blowing himself up for everyone in this case, so we must understand that you know, there is always the harvard method of negotiations, you always have to look not at the position, at the interests in reality, that is the most important thing, so i think that as for the money, they will still bypass this issue, it will be allocated

this money, because i i am sure that this includes the pressure of the americans. why? because the americans have always put pressure on europe in the last 20 years so that europe also finances its own security. do you remember, here we often have, trump, trump, rude, rude, well, he is like a businessman, do you remember how he spoke of his conversation with angela merkel: angela, how come you build pipelines to russia, receive and send billions of dollars there, and then come to us. let's protect against russia, this was actually a 20-year-old policy of the united states of america, because they assumed that countries, for example, the european union, are already rich enough to also take responsibility for security, and of course, that the american you also have to buy weapons, because you are buying something small, here the interests everywhere must, must understand, that's why

here we must understand the complex of interests and understand that even if we... adopt all the legislation, theoretically we will look very responsible, this does not mean that we will still become members of the european union, why? and there are a lot of internal disputes within the european court, mr. kuliba, well , he is a diplomat, he cannot say much , what is actually happening, i will say, we are competitors in many parameters , primarily in relation to eastern europe, and the emergence such a powerful competitor... as ukraine is a big country, but it is huge by european standards, just a country , but they will ask the question, well, we are competitors for investments, labor force, jobs there , the location of factories, yes, first of all, yes, first of all , hungary is under threat, well, small countries that are our neighbors, well, what is there if it is possible here, yes, but

ukraine has more prospects, less than the starting point , slovakia is further on. yes, romania and poland, well, this is the last thing, yes, and that's why we have to understand here the tangle of interests and understanding of what, what undercurrents there will be, because interests are not going anywhere, then mr. kuleba talks about a joint, well , actually the emergence of an alliance between ukraine and poland, and i will tell you, it will be much wider, because the baltic countries, this includes the countries of scandinavia, romania, central, well, slovakia, the czech republic ... can help, ukraine and the poblinsky triangle have already signed, this is in fact, this is actually the creation of such a fragment in the european union, and this is where we begin

. germany and france lose what the scandinavians are doing with us there, the scandinavians are also afraid because they have a border with russia, and that is why we must understand that this bloc is united by mutual dependence . is being built, but zelensky left, but after america, he left, for example, and you saw how they immediately give money to the military industry and so on, why, because they understand what it is about, well, it is especially interesting to us , by the way, with regard to the development of the military industry, this is sweden, sweden produces everything from submarines to fighter jets, they have a much better military industry, by the way, than germany, for example, close to france and so on, yes everything is serious there. these archers, who have now come to the front, are all just delighted, the archers are just a bomb, and here, there is mutual interest, norway has money, they have

a sovereign fund for 1 trillion, but they have it, they were thinking where to put it , and they have a common border with russia, it's also scary, the finns, well , since 1939, everyone already understood, when they took away 10% of the territory and access to the icy ocean as a result of the war. with the soviet union, that is why it is being created, in fact such, and it is also interests, because if it will be built in fact in the european union separately, and old europe will not like it very much, because it is obvious that britain, it is obvious that the united states of america will be happy to strengthen this union, because it is also a counterweight to germany, we must understand the complexity of all these processes that go, and understand that i didn't just say that to this mad man. and the question of money, and the question of money, does the european union have money for subsidies to ukraine, look, i recently looked at how

pensioners, look, pensioners feel differently, they invested in poland, they invested in poland, in only officially, about 200 billion euros have been invested in poland, and until now poland receives subsidies from the european union of about 10 billion, it is still a russian country, well, this is poland, it is commensurate there in terms of population, and well, ukraine is more than poland and so on, for us it is roughly the same it is also necessary, then the question arises of where to get the money, who to take it from, ugh, here the subsidized countries also begin, there are a lot of subsidized countries in the european union , in my opinion, five or six countries are donors, these are germany, france, sweden, italy, ireland, well, in principle, everything, well, on... i don't remember norway there, yes, all the others are subsidized. of course, these countries will ask, if ukraine is given money, it is necessary to take this money from someone. and of course,

the issue of money will immediately begin here. therefore, we must concentrate, i am a supporter , you know, of the politician's style in general, as you know, in his farewell letter, when he was leaving his post, george washington wrote: one should not have any emotions towards any country, no good or good ones, because... that if you have bad ones, you start something is screwing you up there and you start some disputes, if it is good, you create excessive expectations, follow your interests calmly. the question here is what we need from europe at the moment. i think that at the moment we should concentrate, first of all, on the so-called security guarantees, what is the presidential administration working on now, why? because without these security guarantees, specific obligations regarding assistance to ukraine. war, wartime, well, not wartime, in general, it is signed, we commit ourselves, no way germany at the beginning of a large-scale invasion, four helmets and

great concern, yes 400, 4 thousand and great concern, specifically, germany promises such a specific list of aid, poland promises such a specific list of aid, because our main task now is to get under this security, security umbrella , because... without security, there will be no economy, well, we must clearly and clearly understand this security obligations further at this stage, well, you know, the fact that they promise subsidies there someday, that remains to be seen will there be, but access to the sales markets, but now we have them every year, they extend the access to the sales markets there, we need this, it is better that it should be for another 5 years, then in general for 10 there will be a problem with these, well here we have to concentrate because you know they are heavy. we haven't started it , well, we are talking with you, here we are removing what is needed, we need, you know, to think in terms of resources and concrete things that give us a profit at

the moment. that's what we should focus on, and so we should, well, look, poland joined the european union, poland first joined nato in 1999, and then joined the european union. poland joined the european union for 6.5 years, this is poland, when it was already there, well, it was more or less reformatted, i think that we should orientate ourselves plus or minus on such a figure, too, not without hope, again, not because of that that we are so bad and will not meet the criterion called average. we must, we are a huge country, it’s not, you know, there are not, not such big countries, this is the 30th year, i understand correctly, but again, money, money, will the european union be ready to accept ukraine, we are not should, you know, you know, we are often instilled with such an opinion, some people, especially those who are oriented towards the western embassy and everything else, that we are all bad there, yes, everyone around is so good, and yes, you know, that is what they want

us... well in this world, in reality, everyone loves only himself, and whoever loves himself, and here in principle wins, we must understand that there are many nuances and undercurrents in the european union as well, and we must understand this, this not good, not bad, but that's how it is, huh, mr. valery, do you agree with for a period of seven years plus or minus, we understand, yes, we operate with such general categories, and your vision, we have already broken through and flown into the operational space, or have we broken through one border and are now resting on another, that's what we already said. field, there are general interests, there are concerns about the change of accents to the middle and so on and so on, you know, it will look like babayga is against if i say no, so it would be unfair to move away from the figure of seven years, especially since we already they heard the year 2030, there is something in the management i drew the european union, i can see how it is now in motion, seven years, more and more, not faster, well, i think that this is not very correct rhetoric, although it is not groundless, but there is one such interesting...

nuance, about which is written a little now in zmi, about the fact that a dialogue on the reform of the european union has been started following the results of this very summit, there is still some kind of framework document, in terms of a resolution , there are not many details, but it has been talked about for a long time, this is what concerns issues of voting and other procedural points, which are problematic, with which the european union faces, including money and the decision-making process, aging is just here, there is also an understanding of this problem, so i, friends, you know, now i would draw the terms of our accession to the european union very carefully, they can be either longer or can be as short as possible, but why are you like that, georgia, why did they become a candidate so quickly, for no reason, for no reason, but it seemed like a no-brainer, by the way, of course, the pro-russian government there is actually pro-russian the president, no matter who else there, he would speak the same field there berries are all, but they received the status of a candidate,

but the balkan countries did not. no prospects for changes, it would seem, yes, why not, they are right there on the side, i personally see now what the european union is doing, this is the spread of their influence in the east of europe, regardless of what form it will manifest itself in, the fact that we received this decision, well, someone will say that it is solomonic, formal, it does not entail anything, it is not important, there is a conceptual agreement of the european union that they are going east, let's remember 2000... the ninth year the creation of the eastern partnership was not easy, you know, it was really the carrot that armenia, ukraine, moldova, belarus and georgia, five countries, ran after, and a number of summits were held, even in kyiv, something was being gathered, they said , not everyone asked , in the end, what’s next, what’s next, well, you ’re telling us, well, it’s not about the european union, the european union is speaking so very carefully, right now, where are the dragonflies, yes,

let’s share what we’ll do . and here is precisely the question now for the european union, whether we will share shall we add, this is also a serious nuance, because let's compare the economies of the united states of america, the european union, the european union up to 20 trillion yes euros, well at different prices, 15, 17, 18 by year, the united states of america 25 plus, in fact somewhere on such a parity, they are really already starting to find themselves, and the issue of security is very important, and others and... others, you can already highlight the danger and everything, because i, for example, when they are now talking about security guarantees, i i don't see them at all what the european union can give us in addition to money, well, besides money by and large, this is not a guarantee, well, it is not a guarantee of security, it is a guarantee of help, we have it literally, security, the security of the european union itself must be taken care of, friends, it is no coincidence that in this final resolution there, among other things, another megaproject was written there, as sharni called it.

megabudget, megafinancial document.