a word about everything, everything that worries you , see you in 15 minutes, don't switch, mobilization in a new way, how it will work, let's try to understand in today's issue of bbc ukraine, i'm olga polamaryuk. those who were the first to defend ukraine are asking for the terms of the demobi. and many of those who can replace them are fleeing the country. the personnel crisis in the armed forces is coming to the fore, so the authorities are looking for new approaches, what will change and how it will affect servicemen and conscripts. several world publications immediately published articles about the mobilization in ukraine. some write about violations, for example... the new york times.

the economist also writes about problems with the recruitment of new recruits. everyone agrees that the personnel crisis in the armed forces of ukraine comes to the fore. but is it so? let's figure it out together. currently , almost 1 million people serve in the defense forces of ukraine. at the same time, according to estimates, the mobilization resource of ukraine is 2.3 million. only those who have reached the age of 27 can mobilize. ukrainians between the ages of 18 and 27 are subject to conscription for military service, well, in military circles they say that there is a lack of youth at the front, and they say the same thing in the west. the ex-minister of defense of great britain, ben wallace, believes that ukraine should more actively involve young people in the war, and as evidence, he says that the average age of ukrainian fighters at the front is over 40 years. military recruits are not the only problem, there are those at the front who have been fighting for almost two years, where are they? mobilize and is it possible

to do it? relatives of these soldiers regularly raise the issue of demobilization, go to protests, write petitions, say that soldiers at the front lose physical and mental health and ask for justice, so that other citizens also carry out military service. our men came, enlisted in the first days when we started, when we had a full-scale invasion. we demand the establishment of demobilization terms , we have hope that they will pay attention to us and our men, it is very difficult for them, they are very exhausted, they do not need rotation, i am here for our men to be given a full rest, we need demobilization , on the issue of demobilization in ukraine indeed important and urgent, but the problem is that ukraine has neither the time nor the possibility. and

actually release hundreds of thousands of people from the armed forces at the same time. they were mobilized at the start of a full-scale invasion. currently, there are proposals to establish service term limits, they are being discussed and a compromise is being sought. but how to encourage volunteers to join the army? well, first of all, financially. according to the idea of ​​the ministry of defense , volunteers who sign a contract with the armed forces of ukraine will be offered a one-time payment of up to uah 50,000. second, volunteers will be sought through search sites. jobs and such vacancies already exist, and according to the bbc , this experiment is planned to be expanded in the near future, and on the other hand, in ukraine they plan to narrow the list of categories that can receive a deferment, these are those who have a close relative with a disability, who decide to receive a second or third higher education, and among the possible innovations of the introduction of a defender's certificate, it is actually an analogue of a military ticket in the diya mobile application. however, while the authorities

are looking for ways to encourage men to serve, thousands of ukrainians are fleeing abroad. bbc researched that more than 20,000 men were able to do so illegally, and about the same number were apprehended. my colleagues talked to one of them, he is a young musician who escaped from ukraine and ended up in a refugee center in moldova. he insists that he has the right to a white ticket due to his health, but he has not issued it.

so what did president volodymyr zelenskyi say after the meeting of one of the stakes? a significant part of today's meeting was devoted to the set of issues concerning which our warriors and the whole society are waiting fair answers, it concerns mobilization, ongoing mobilization, rotation in the armed forces of ukraine, questions about conscripts who were called up for service before the start of a full-scale invasion. of course, special attention was paid to the situation with the work of the vlk and the military committees, what the soldiers are talking about, what they are talking about. the commander must be decided, and there are many proposals, but are they realistically implemented in practice, will they enable the armed forces to recruit enough soldiers, and citizens have equal rights and responsibilities in terms of mobilization? let's talk about it with my colleague, oleg chernysh, he is currently studying this issue. olezhe,

i congratulate you, president volodymyr zelenskyi announced the need for urgent changes in the mobilization process, this is how he said, what kind of changes are these? good evening, olya , first of all, it should be noted that there is still no final text of these changes, there are only certain guesses, insiders, statements by politicians, experts and so on, but there is no document, no text yet, an interagency group is working on it together with deputies, but according to certain data that i also have, and they are in a certain way confirmed, there are some positions that will most likely be in this document, firstly, what can be said with almost one hundred percent certainty, it will be the demobilization of conscripts, that is, these are the very people who were called up for military service

before a full-scale invasion and obviously , they had already served the year they were supposed to serve, but given that we have martial law, or... they couldn't be demobilized earlier, they couldn't be involved in hostilities, they were in the rear, they received just a meager some salary there is about 600 hryvnias, and here is what a decision will be made about their dismissal, which is logical in principle, and another aspect, it will definitely be increased forced mobilization, i.e., most likely, employees of the tsc, police officers will also be given it... wider powers, as we can already see, they already use their powers quite actively, for example, the same famous raids, gyms and clubs, but i think that they will also be given the power to check military registration documents on the streets, and to detain people in

a certain period, to forcibly deliver them to the tsc , that is, in fact, they will normalize and legalize these actions, which we already see sometimes, which cause outrage, well, come on... among lawyers, also, of course, in my opinion, the authorities want, and sooner than all this will be spelled out in the bill, the reduction of the list of people who have the right to deferment, you already mentioned, the disabled of the third group, i think that the circle of people who have the right to deferment for the care of the disabled will be significantly narrowed, as well as the government trying to solve the problem with... with the looters of higher education, as we saw last year and the year before last, there was such an unexpected surge of people who, so to speak, after 30-40 years decided to get higher education, as we understand, this was most likely due to the fact that higher education at the present the moment gives the right

to deferment from the army, the authorities are trying to close this loophole and deprive these people who are studying at the second, third higher education from deferment, well... you already mentioned recruiting, i think that these are two directions, forced mobilization and voluntary incentive recruitment, they will the main ones, and which ones are, which will be in this draft law, and the most debatable issue, which i am not really sure will be in the draft bill, but which is being discussed very actively, is the introduction of military registration of women, that is, we have already seen the public posts of deputy mar yana bezovloya, who is also among the drafters of this draft law, and according to her, it should be, i.e. putting all women on the military register, but to be honest, i have great doubts that the state will be able to implement it in practice, well, we understand that public dissatisfaction, this the norm also calls for something quite significant, yes,

well, we are now talking about a new mobilization strategy, but valery zaluzheny is so proposing to return to the previous framework, well , at least that is what he told journalists today, so... what is new is the well- forgotten old ? here is such a very interesting question , in fact, in the words of valery zaluzhny , the most important thing is that... he noted that, well, in fact, it was read between the lines that the change of all the military committees, well, the heads of the regional tsc, which was initiated by president volodymyr zelensky after the famous situation with corruption odesa military commissar, this one-time change of all military commissars worsened the situation with mobilization, that's exactly what zaluzhnyi wanted to say, that these people, they were definitely not possible. channel, maybe there were manifestations of corruption among them, but

they were professionals, this is again a quote from zaluzhnyi, and they knew their business, that is , they need to explain that this is work in military committees, and now it is called tsk, it is a very specific job, which is actually very, let's say, has certain features related even to such an aspect as driving document circulation, so these people were released. they were replaced by combat officers who had never had a relationship with such a complex circulation document, and this led to the fact that in the fall ukraine had a significant failure in mobilization, there were simply insane numbers of the shortage of mobilized people, this is exactly what zaluzhnyi says that there was a broken system that was bad or good, well , not very good, but nevertheless worked, and this system break led to the fact that... the system stopped working almost at all, that's what we're talking about. well, yes, my friend, in general the authorities admit that in the second year

of the full-scale war, ukraine faced a shortage of personnel in the army, and the commander of the operational strategic group of troops, tavria, general oleksandr ternavskyi , said that along with the shortage of ammunition there was a personnel problem. let's listen. today we have some difficulties with the personnel that we have on the front line today. yes. today he is not so fresh, he is not so, as it were, rested here, but taking into account today's day of the present, every team works hard the question, well, it’s not that there is a restoration of combat capability or there are any, first of all , replacements are provided for, this is the replacement of the roto battalion, some unit of permanent non-rest, yes, well, let’s return to our conversation, olezhe, in your opinion, how can you comment is this the statement of general ternovsky? well, mr. torynavskyi, i'm sorry, is absolutely correct in noting the fatigue

of the front-line fighters, this is a very urgent problem for the ukrainian army, perhaps even more urgent than the lack of ammunition, but he, i note, points to such a solution as rotation, that is, the replacement of battalions, not a mass call for new ones, he, i understand mr. ranavskyi he cannot, and he perfectly understands that at the moment it is impossible to simply call up trained personnel en masse from the street, that is why he actually talks about the exit as a rotation of combat units that are on the front line, which are already tired for more fresher units, and not about the actual replenishment of the brigades, this is what general ternovsky says, yes oleg, well, one quick question, in your opinion, whether they will have time... to adopt this complex bill before the new year, literally 20 seconds, well, my prediction is not, because it is

a very large project that actually completely changes the system of mobilization that has been in place for all these 30 years in ukraine, so actually he hasn't even appeared in the council yet, he hasn't appeared in the council, and i personally don't see any chance that it will be approved before the new year, thanks, oleg chernysh was in touch, a bbc correspondent, and i want to to say that if you... it is interesting to learn more, i recommend reading oleg's article on on our website bbc.ua mobilization in a new way. how the ukrainian authorities want to attract more people to the army. i highly recommend you read it. and also, i remind you, subscribe to our pages in social networks so as not to miss the most important news. we are on facebook, instagram, tiktok, youtube. you can watch our news release if you missed it on air. well, that's all for today, look for more stories on our website. we are on the air. tomorrow, all is well.

congratulations, friends, the live broadcast of the tv channel continues with the verdict program. we work in live and on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are currently watching us on these platforms please like this video to help it trend on youtube and also take our poll today we ask you: do you think the current system is fair mobilization? yes, no, please vote on youtube according to the principle of yes, no, well, and if you have a phone at hand and watch our telecast, then vote if you think the current system of mobilization is fair (0800-211-381), no, 0800-211-382, all calls

to these numbers are free. today in the program, friends. the most desirable secrets for russia are outsiders' ears in zaluzhny's office, which they wanted to find out from the head of the armed forces. the 12th package of sanctions from the european union against russia, who will it hit and how hard? the defeat of russia is a guarantee of security in the world. why do western countries delay the escalation of the aggressor country, what is preventing them? today, friends, we have. visiting political scientists, today the political science club, volodymyr fesenko, political scientist, chairman board of the center for applied political research penta, mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you and i am glad to see you on our broadcast, i congratulate you, and viktor boberenko, expert of the analysis and policy bureau, mr. viktor, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our broadcast, good to you hello, i am glad to welcome you, and we are waiting

for the inclusion of igor reiterovych, the head of political and legal programs of ukrainian. of the center for social development, while mr. ihor joins our broadcast, gentlemen, let's start with other people's ears in the office or in in the premises where the head of the armed forces of ukraine was to be in charge. the general staff of the armed forces confirmed that eavesdropping devices were found in several offices where the commander-in-chief of the armed forces was supposed to work, and zaluzhny himself confirmed today that these devices were actually devices. were found not only in the premises where he was supposed to work, but also in other premises where his staff should be, they were found yesterday during a routine inspection of the premises and the sbu has also already reported that they are engaged in this it can be a servant or a maid in your opinion to the head of the armed forces of ukraine, of course, if

there were no such discussions about a possible candidate for the presidency or as a political figure, then of course i would not have asked you, because we have one enemy, that is russia, and here od to a large extent, it could be said that these are external forces. mr. volodymyr, what do you think, in this situation, are the internal forces interested in what the head of the armed forces says? well, it is significant news anyway, and a subject for investigation. but i did not rush to conclusions yet, well, i just feel. it is already noticeable, attention to the internal then, on the subject of zaluzhny's opponent, that's exactly what they're following him and so on , but in principle, this is the traditional version, because we always have everyone following everyone, majora milnichenko's syndrome, and that's the surveillance there

from president to everyone else, this is our old and not very good tradition. but already today i saw information that these premises, which used to be, let's say, state, then belonged to private structures, and that allegedly these bugs that were found, well, let's just say, they are first of all not functional, they were not connected , i.e they were not part of the listening system, on and if they weren't active, the question then was what was the point, but if they found... an activated listening system, that would be a serious subject for danger, particularly from the point of view of the forego's interests, and even from the point of view there, if it is some kind of internal intrigue, they want to listen to a swindler, they are afraid of a swindler, but the system is not activated, so yes, maybe these are the remnants of that total system of favoritism that existed even

in the time of finukovich, here is one version, another the version i heard too, that's it special bugs were thrown up to demonstrate that, yes, you see , zaluzhnyi is being followed, that is, the pr version is in favor of zaluzhnyi and against his opponents, so the versions can be different, by far the most popular is the version that it is connected with domestic politics, here i can tell you that i have already said that these are ancient traditions of ukraine, i was once told back in yushchenko's time that the first thing they do... when a new president appears, the special services nicks bring him wiretapping data, on everyone, including representatives of his team that they think about the president himself, what they say about him. and so on, well, of course , opponents, and in this way dependence is formed, dependence on such information,

i think that they also bring a certain obedience to some people, i simply do not doubt it, again, this is an old ukrainian tradition, and there will be people , who will do it, i will just remind you, do you remember the tapes about medvedchuk, they appeared somewhere... in the 18th, not in the 19th or 20th years, i am already wrong under zalensky, yes, but the recordings were there in the 14th and at the beginning of the 15th years, they were kept and made, well, then i think many people were listened to in the 14th and 15th years, and then they began to throw them out, and this is also the style of the special services, they throw them in first through, by the way , through the sources of female journalists and i... . i know how it is done, i even saw in my time how well-known ukrainian journalists were in line to get inside information from sivkovych, well, it

was back in yanukovych's time, so i say, it is an old system, a bad system, unfortunately, it is stored. thank you, mr. volodymyr, igor reiterovych joined our broadcast, mr. igor, i congratulate you, thank you for joining our broadcast. mr. victor. who do you think, whose ears were under the table of the servant and who tried to listen to him, because mr. volodymyr said that there could be some ancient bookmarks or some ancient devices that could be used by those people who were or in in the government, or in private structures, by the way, that's what they said when melnychenko's recordings appeared, because no one believed... that he recorded there on the dictaphone, and that the system that existed in the central committee of the communist party of ukraine, and now it is the building of the office of the president of ukraine, that these old bookmarks could be bookmarks

of the state security committee or the kgb of the soviet union, and simply russians could write to them without the knowledge of leonid kuchma's security or security service there. mr. victor? well, i think that the version with the fact that it is an old bookmark and it was once there in the crooked year of 90 , it was bookmarked and it is still there - under yanukovych, it was in 2013, yes, well, even so, i think that this cannot be because they still worked in this room it was checked several times and i think that malomalsky, not even a major, but a lieutenant technician, will understand when they were planted. yes, and this version may just lead us astray, here are the main versions, mr. volodymyr , if i were to voice them, the only thing i would say is that

there may be one version transitioning into another, that this is not major melnichenko’s syndrome, colonel maksym’s synderome maksymovich isayev, aka standard and furir shtirlets, that's what some can do. people who ask and say, for example, to someone in the president's office, what we will listen to now hardworking enough to think that he is going to run for president, he is talking about it with his generals, what else will we check the person there, but in reality it could be, well, one thing is said to be another , let's listen, but it is not a fact that then it won’t be on putin’s desk in a day, that is... i would consider any versions at the place of service, but the espionage version and the political version must be considered unambiguously, and i know how equally

the president’s office treats general zaluzhny , how equally, how much they fear let him pass ahead in the ratings, and in the electoral sympathies, that and how much the office has nothing else to do, that they can do it unambiguously, well, that's it. eh, and that's why, well, yes, someone will say, well, it may have been specially planted by those bugs, so that's what i'm saying now, that there's like, let's say that we have a newborn suspect there will be someone from the president's office, yes, we won't name it surnames, but in fact it is very very, if, well, this is the most plausible version, thank you, mr. viktor, mr. igor, it so happened that these bugs or these devices... which were found even before valery zaluzhny entered this office, coincided with the publication of fresh ratings of sociological polls,

which... regarding trust and how trust in zelensky fell during the year and in zaluzhny, according to the data available at the kmis, which conducted survey, that is, literally from november 29 to december 9, citizens' trust in president zelensky dropped from 84% in december 2022 to 62% in december 2023, that is... a rather serious 22% drop in trust, trust in the armed forces and of commander-in-chief valery zaluzhnyi is, respectively, 96% of december 22nd, 88% in december 23rd, at the same time 59% of citizens trust both zelenskyi and zaluzhnoy at the same time, i don't know how it can be, probably in this case, maybe

also. yes, yes, that's exactly the case, i said this when the scandal was just starting, that is, they have equal trust from the citizens of ukraine, right? not exactly, trust can be given to many people at the same time, not that electoral ratings of mine can be distributed only to each for each person, but you can trust several people at the same time. yes, yes, of course. mr. igor, what do you think? a meritorious person is rated, and he gets into these ratings, into political ratings? by the way, is this normal during wartime? well, that's normal, because first of all he is the commander-in-chief , although he didn't make any political statements, and if we didn't look at his photos or any statements, there is no politics at all , but part of the citizens, well, a significant part of the citizens, it keeps the request for new politicians and looks at the perspective, and by the way, this request for new politicians, it is huge, it has not really gone anywhere,

at the same time... we are talking about, on the one hand, new faces, and on the other hand, people who are professionals in their field, and it is certain that general zaluzhnyi, he is such a person, a professional in his field, not only with military, but what is very important, with management experience, since he manages all the armed forces of ukraine in general, has an appropriate level of training, education and so on, and a person who has an appropriate reputation, and this is also imposed, by the way, well some expectations are not very rational and faith in general, in the defense forces of ukraine and specifically in the commander-in-chief, so the fact that he appears in these ratings, i do not see anything extraordinary here, and in the end it is absolutely expected, because it is characteristic of all democratic countries that are, for example , in a state of war, or even if, if they are not in a state of war, such ratings are made there, as a rule, military personnel who retire and officially announce the start of a political career, but we have a somewhat specific situation,

and this the situation, well, it calls for... similar decisions, moreover, you know, it seems to me that his appearance specifically in these ratings is precisely the answer to some previous ratings, in which he, well, it was noticeable to the naked eye, was not specifically inserted, and these ratings looked a little strange, considering those conversations and general moods that exist in society, and therefore, then, well, certain companies drew conclusions and began to insert it, because, as you know, one of my acquaintances, an active military serviceman and also a political scientist, once wrote such a post that opened the rating, not i saw a drunkard there, closed it rating, yes, not in the plan that he is interested in looking at some of his political prospects there, no, in the context that, well, the person is as public as possible, the attention is riveted and it is clear that trust ratings do not fly, in trust ratings, he must appear , the fact that ratings sometimes appear there, where they are measured in the second round there or in hypothetical elections, is a separate story, let's say, yes, by the way,

it still seems that the rating company has not confirmed their rating or ? how is this rating, did they do it or not, but here in the case of kmis, everything is honest, everything is clean, the rating is published, it is about trust, you now clarify to our tv viewers that this is the rating that was used in the material of the online publication ukranian pravda, it is closed, the sociology of the rating was closed, i understand correctly, well no by the way, there is not so much ukrainian truth material there, the first rating was published by channels close to the president’s office, there was a note that it was... a rating conducted by a rating, made by a rating, yes, but i still haven’t seen, by the way, i really didn't check for two days, but i'm on the official website of the rating, for example , i have not seen the results of this survey, with kmis the situation is simpler, they went the right way, they made a trust rating, which is logical, since we are not talking about elections now, and the numbers there are of course, well, they are indicative enough, then , that it coincided , you know, with a story with a possible wiretapping, well , it seems to me that we can talk about

certain such... you know, interesting, interesting coincidences, that...