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anymore, it's a rather painful question, and how did it happen, from time to time these views conflict so much that our work ends, we called it between ourselves slavery, office slavery, that is, to have to go through the president's office. zelensky is similar to cherchel. churchill once said that if you can achieve anything in politics if you are ready to share political success. no one ever said these words, i quote. and they were ready to negotiate with russia in the event. if russia occupied kyiv, britain was not ready , for some reason i always believed that the russians would come sooner or later, how did these warnings sound to you, maybe in closed meetings, absolutely straightforward, they nodded their heads, they looked at the mentally ill, nice guys, but they will die soon. i welcome you to radio svoboda. good day. thank you for coming, we usually introduce you, vadym prystayko, ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary to great britain, but you are no longer an ambassador, so how can you be properly introduced now.

i remained an ambassador, i have the rank of an extremely plenipotentiary ambassador, this rank for the rest of my life, you can safely address me as an ambassador, mr. ambassador, i am glad to see you on radio svoboda, i still am, i will not pretend that we do not notice the big elephant in the room, i want to start the conversation with your resignation, because it was a very high-profile story, very unexpected, and it started with what actually started everything from the vilnius nato summit, yes, when ben wallace said that ukraine should be... more grateful for the support, and volodymyr zelenskyy left with sarcasm and said, well, let's get up, thank you, lie down, thank you, and then you said on skynews, that sarcasm is not a very appropriate thing in the relations between the two countries. obviously, you had ben wallace and volodymyr zelensky, but at the bank, apparently, they perceived that this was... an extraordinary rebuke

to volodymyr zelensky, and it looks like this, because of this they lost their position, or is it true? everything that you told, it really was like that, well, for almost three years. and how were you informed about the resignation? of course, no, well, no, not at all, not as tragic as in most cases, i talked with minister kuleba, i talked with some other people who called me and told me about what was going to happen, then, over time, i read the decree that the dismissal had taken place. how do you like kuleba? explained your dismissal, there are things that diplomats leave between themselves, in principle a normal conversation, dmytro kuleba is an old colleague and friend who simply told what happened, i basically realized that in a situation where all decisions are made so emotionally, this decision can happen very simply, easily and emotionally. volodymyr zelenskyy did not speak with you before his resignation, we exchanged messages with them, tried to explain something to each other, but it was probably not enough. you didn't talk after that? i've exchanged

e-mails from time to time when necessary for work, but basically, well, the president has other things to do than talk to the retired ambassador from britain, which you are now what are you doing, i am happy to talk to you. and in general? in general, there are certain projects that could not be launched, did not have time in britain, there are those projects, unfortunately, which, to put it mildly, will stall after my departure, together with my friends who stayed there and who are here, we are trying to implement a couple of projects, all in the field of security and defense, these are some public organizations, non-governmental organizations, work a little at a time, even commercial projects that are related to the development of, say , the military-industrial complex, that is, to you have nothing to do with diplomacy now. you don't have, in short, i'm not part of the diplomatic service anymore, it's quite a painful question, because many, many, many years, many friends, many plans, and it all ended , well, it had to end once, it ended now, and you if you were now

offered to return to the diplomatic service, are you ready or have you finished with it, if the offer was made to return to britain, then formally speaking, until now i am the ambassador of ukraine to britain, because... to be a formalist, only with upon arrival the new ambassador who presents his credentials to the king and with him another document that not many people know about, the so-called letters of revocation, that is, withdraws the previous announcement of the previous ambassador, to be a formalist from the 16th century, i am still the ambassador of great britain until appointed the next one, until the new one not only appoints , unfortunately, due to the fact that the queen was in quarantine and died, i did not present credentials for two years, only presented to the king when he became king, by the way, i was the first... diplomat that britain decided it is necessary that the first diplomat should be the ukrainian ambassador, although they stood in the queue for a very long time, this is how they tried to show why it is important for britain to support ukraine, even at the level of the crown, ugh, that is, now you say that you still formally remain the ambassador , but it is so very, very formally hysterical, very yes, very formally, but

is it possible or ready to accept such offers, to go as an ambassador to some other country, if there is such an offer, i worked, this happened in my life with everyone ... by the presidents of ukraine from himself the first was twice in the offices of different presidents . in principle, i believed that, like the majority of the diplomatic service, we work for the state called the country and for the people. if we get offers, we try to be honest and work where we can, depending on what is expected of us. actually, we don't know much, we don't know how to shoot tv shows or do anything, we are diplomats. but i understand that there are no such proposals from you at the moment from the ministry of foreign affairs. no offers, well i don't really expect it, i don't demand it, it 's a very important, very difficult, very interesting stage of human life, but it's over, we're moving to a new stage, we're starting again, we 'll go back to the diplomatic service, because there's more to talk about, but you mentioned that you worked in the administration

of more than one ukrainian president, i think it's just interesting for our audience to talk a little about your background, because under president poroshenko you were the deputy... minister of foreign affairs in charge of ukraine's mission to nato, and that's it in this last position, in the spring of 19, you joined the team of volodymyr zelensky, in fact became one of the closest, perhaps , people in his entourage, went on to the government, and how did it happen, where did your paths cross, because as a rule, people who worked in the apparatuses there and in positions under poroshenko, zelensky did not take his command, in such cases as yours, they are there on the fingers of one hand, perhaps. you can count, formally speaking, i went to canada as an ambassador for the first time, when i was yanukovych's ambassador, and as an ambassador, excuse me, the president, i came, i spoke with yanukovych, as a professional, i was the deputy ambassador to the united states, and i was offered to move to head the mission in canada, that is, people

like me, who have worked all my life, we try to be the ones who promote nationwide, this is not means that we are not aware of the political, it does not mean that we do not have our own political...views, and from time to time these views conflict so much that our work ends, it has happened more than once, another time ended this time, about how i really got to know volodymyr zelensky, i was called and offered, i was in brussels, i had no idea that anyone needed my services, i felt that the position of ambassador was very important, it was what i wanted to do in nato, and in general, my whole career was being built around the fact that i tried to pave ukraine's way into the alliance in order to ensure security. there was no such war, for some reason i always believed that the russians would come sooner or later, and we had to be ready, and you got a call from zelensky, and what was said and they offered to come and talk, i came, met with him, asked if he realizes, that's all

, he said that the european union and nato are coming with me in the set, he said, what's wrong with the european union and nato, nothing bad, it's just very good, if it suits us such basic things, we we will continue to work, this is how ours will end. the first conversation and that's how you later joined his team, that's how i joined, i arrived on the first day of the inauguration, i just helped organize the inauguration as an ambassador to nato, well , step by step, i arrived with one suitcase... .it looks like ukraine is very a serious shortage of personnel in the diplomatic service, well, we remember that in march dmytro kuleba announced an ambassadorial elevator, a diplomatic elevator, i don't know, they recruited people based on advertisements, tested them, conducted interviews for the positions of ambassadors, and what is going on in general , why is there such a shortage of personnel, and against the background of all this there are many experienced ambassadors, for example, you? turned out to be unnecessary for the diplomatic service, i think that every

leader and every minister has the right to their own approaches to the formation of the diplomatic corps, i had one approach: i believed that this work should be done by professionals, there are cases where it is necessary to involve politicians, well, for example, there are systems in which there are no non-professionals at all, there are such outstanding diplomatic ones as the italian service, for example, or the german diplomatic service , they do not foresee the participation of non-professionals , that is, ambassadors... they cook for a long time, it is an artificial product, it is grown, it goes through many, many stages of its life, well, i was told in some european countries, in two years they know, wherever the ambassador goes, he is there in two years he begins to learn the language of the country where he will go, for example, in britain in two years, if it is an easy language in one year, if it is a close language, sometimes even longer, a diplomat is trained, obviously, an ambassador is trained even more, so that this service understands how much depends on a specific person, it is unusual when not only a system, but a personal person. is important, but in such cases a lot is invested in this person,

it is simply difficult to spend this resource and look for people from the outside, well, for example, you can would be to send an ambassador to nato, i see cases when there were ambassadors to nato, former ministers, even presidents, that is, people realize, the state realizes how important this particular position is, a former prime minister, former minister is sent there for that he, with his connections, with his personal connections with world leaders, could make a mark that is important to him. when you invite widely everyone who wants to send their cvs, well, this is not exactly how i would see the search for an ambassador, and why is it so in ukraine, you have an answer to this question, for sure, this attempt to expand and change the letters that happened now is not only diplomacy, it is only a small piece of the civil service, you see that we tried, we tried to change all the deputies of the verkhovna rada, the idea was that if these people are not connected to the government before that, not connected by corruption ties. and all this with nepotism, matchmaking, they should be a new wave that should

move everything, and social elevators should work , not even just elevators, but such an avalanche, just wash away everything old and bring everything new, to what extent it worked, well, now after four years we can already sum up the first results, you can sum up, i believe that when a person builds his career in politics, for example, let's take care not to talk about diplomacy all the time, and this person knows that nothing else in life. he does not and has been working as a politician for the last 20 years, and if one corruption scandal is noticed and the responsible voter does not elect him for it, this is precisely the safeguard against corruption, we went from the other side, we believed that it was so corrupt system political, that it makes no sense to look for some normal politician among them, let 's replace them all, the problem is that people who yesterday were doing something completely different and honestly earned $200 a month for a living, they... can one day be offered a suitcase with 6 million, and here you have to be very serious, a very

integrated person, not to take this suitcase, but to continue being an honest new face of politics. now there are no ambassadors in a number of important super-important countries, there is no ambassador in great britain, how dangerous it is, or what does it mean, what are the risks? well, for example, if we want to change the ambassador in britain, let's start tonight after our conversation. pick up, search for, ask for the so-called agriman in britain, permission to send a specific person, then the president has to make a decision, then visas, well, it will take another six months, that is, in the best schedule , our mission in britain will not have a head of mission for months, and what in general, with the prospect of appointing an ambassador to great britain, if, for example, to talk about were but were sounded like specific surnames, so when you were fired. oleksiy reznikov was called , something went wrong, do you have any idea who is expected from ukraine and who will be categorically not accepted,

countries are trying not to not accept, not categorically, this does not seem like an agreman, so-called, that is, it drags on for so long, while another the state will finally understand that for sure greiman will never come, well, it seems that in kazakhstan they intended to appoint serhii gaidai, the head, former head of luhansk region, in kazakhstan, as i understand it, it was more than categorically stated that gaidai is not will accept it seems to me that when appointing ambassadors and so on, it is necessary to do it as quietly as possible and try not to comment, because we interfere with very subtle, subtle processes that take place in another country, that is, what i am leading to, that there are processes that... . one must treat the partner with respect, the partner must decide or not decide, we do not even question why such a decision was made, it was made, thank you, it was not made, we understood the hint, we are looking for another candidate, maybe you have information, who considered for the position ambassador to great britain, i definitely have information, the only thing i would like to say is that in my opinion, again, i am a former minister, a former ambassador, we cannot afford

to experiment with britain, it will cost us very much, no, we don't have to creativity, well, from what you mentioned. i went from the post of vice-prime minister for european and atlantic integration, former minister of foreign affairs, i was ambassador twice before, ambassador to nato, to canada, worked in the usa, and so on and so forth, that is , the british understood with whom they deal and talk equally, we can try to send someone very creative, but we must be very careful to understand what consequences this will lead to, this is a career that should not cause any doubt, this is a pure person, the profession of a diplomat is so strange in the sense that. .. we write almost nothing down, we trust a person’s word, if a diplomat says something, they trust him with a title, you can imagine the high level of trust, i’m not talking about such strange things as, for example, well, for example, i was lucky to have a wonderful wife who performed some of the functions that i would not have been able to perform, the photo of my wife often affects my memory, when she and the wife of prime minister sunak are sitting on their knees and

feeding our soldiers on the training ground, and they have been sitting there for a long time and they say something like this middle between indian. and ukrainian borscht, and this, this meeting, this closeness, it is very expensive , and the ambassador will not achieve this, if his wife does not help him, to the extent that the office of the president of ukraine manually managed the diplomatic service and ambassadors by jumping through, for example, minister kuleba? the problem is not with minister kuleb, not even with president zelenskyi and not even with the head of the office andriy yermak, the problem is traditional, it is as old as... the world and all the offices of all presidents have always tried to manage the ministry of foreign affairs, but at one time they wrote about you , that you are one of the few ministers of foreign affairs who tried to build the most autonomous work of the ministry, i don't know how true this was, but that's what political observers say, i'll tell you that well, for example, i managed to cancel the old

decree, explain to president zelensky how unhealthy it is, according to which most of the appointments of diplomats abroad and... in the central apparatus , the decision of the president's office was carried out, we called this among ourselves slavery, office slavery, that is, to have to go through through the president's office, on the one hand, it is great, because the head of state controls how his tasks are carried out at the local level, appointing or not appointing, my argument was to president zelensky that he, according to the constitution appoints ambassadors, leaders, let's leave it to the minister to appoint all others, there is an opportunity under the constitution to appoint heads of the mission, so it should be done. there is operational work that should be managed by the minister of foreign affairs and the cabinet of ministers. our state system, not only in the diplomatic service, provides for a strong presidential power and a strong cabinet of ministers. in britain, for example, there is no such problem. the prime minister is the executive and has full power. and ministers are cabinet members. everything is very simple and transparent. this is permanent with us balancing. we can recall yulia volodymyrivna tymoshenko and president yushchenko.

it's enough. i can't help asking you, although you may have already been asked this when you were working. in great britain, great britain and the british press, and british, british diplomats, and british intelligence, most loudly informed ukraine and ukrainians that there would be a war, and do you remember the communication of those days there in february, january 22 , how did these warnings sound to you, perhaps in closed meetings? absolutely straightforward, there will be war, you have to prepare, you don't realize how much... it's going to be tragic for your people, the only specific thing was that people didn't believe that we would survive this war, that is, i was looked at, you know, i was sitting with your colleagues, at me i looked at such and such a sick person, they said that i'm sorry, you don't understand , you will die, you will all die, the russians are coming, and so on and so on and so on, i always told them that it would not be easy, it will not be a walk in the park, as they say, walking in the

park, we will fight to the end, they nodded they looked at the mentally ill, nice guys, but soon... and they were ready to negotiate with russia in the event that russia occupied kyiv? britain was not ready, probably one of those countries that was not ready, it was just britain, they were not ready to negotiate, they suggested that we take up arms, they provided these arms, maybe not all that we needed, to not all that we need at this time, but they were really ready to fight, and they told us that we should fight, they gave a very simple argument, we fought, we were the only ones who...everyone else in europe surrendered, including the french, you remember churchill's speech, which is often told, will fight there and there and there in the fields, there the first part is very important, he said , i do not promise you... nothing but tears, blood, sweat and work, it is not customary for us to speak like that behind the people, it is customary for them, and you conveyed these messages to kyiv, for this

there are diplomats, to convey all these messages to kyiv, and what was the answer to you, well , i think that the answer was the same as the answer to everyone, that we have our own intelligence, we also realize that these calls lead to the fact that the people will start to panic, investments will leave ukraine, this is the task of political leadership. the leader, how he is ready to explain to his people and what exactly he is saying, or he is saying that indeed, there will be a war, we must prepare, we must dig trenches, we must stop walking in nightclubs, because we will soon be bombed, we must hide our there are some armed forces in different places so that they don't bomb what, in principle, was done partially, or you can say that god will carry us all away, that's all it will be fine, you just remembered... how you worked at the nato mission, and you said that you always predicted that russia would attack sooner or later, but tell me, please, do you have

any predictions, predictions, how they will be relations between ukraine and nato will continue to develop. ukraine now says that our path to nato is written in our constitution. it is absolutely obvious that nato is not ready to take over a country where the war is ongoing. there are some statements from former general secretaries. or current advisors about the fact that come on, maybe we will consider the option of guaranteeing the fifth article for those territories that are not occupied, well, it's like nato in exchange for territories, let me understand this whole big flow of information, what is the real perspective of ukraine? i don't want to go too deep, because this specific conversation is professional, but i remember this case when the head of the office of the general secretary of a non-… alliance, not a representative of the allies, the head of the office of the general secretary, that is, the person who helps him organize the work of the general secretary, nice person, i know him well, he really said in one of the conversations that maybe

it was necessary to think and take ukraine and the part that is still under control, we criticized him, simply not understanding what he was talking about, if i am not mistaken, article number six of the north atlantic treaty provides for the so -called geographical the responsibility of the alliance , what he meant, he meant what is possible under... germany, when germany was partly occupied by the soviet union, partly in western civilization, then it was taken separately, considering the issue, listen, let's not us we will carry responsibility for all of germany, we will return to this issue later. everything said by this, this representative of the office of the general secretary, that there is such a possibility, and in theory, deep in theory, if you hear him and try to understand, and not immediately shout that it is treason, you can understand what he means, putin specially creates on the territory. small states and large states, like us, sects of territory that do not belong, let's say, to the government, in order to hold us all, it casts anchor and holds, this is transnistria, this is abkhazia from ossetia, this is now

occupied parts of ukraine, and he sincerely believes that neither yez nor nato will take it, it is enough for him to simply create these territories, what we said and what this representative of the alliance said, that if rikytyr is deprived of the opportunity to do this, then we will cope with it, and then he, the thing with which he holds us, he will not be able to. to do more than that, he will be forced to look for other options to prevent ukraine from slipping into the euro-atlantic family, that's all. but a similar proposal or statement was made by former nato agent rasmussen. he too said that ukraine can be included in nato, but without the occupied territories. is it the same? it would be great if rasmusin, when he was secretary general, would take us into nato. i remember his coming to court. i worked at the ministry of foreign affairs at that time, and then we had to advance, we had to take a separate next step, we had to stand up. a member of the so-called map membership action program, then he was not as active as he is now, well, maybe we are older, maybe the situation has changed, and now he is no longer

agent, and allows himself to see the situation more broadly, he is not the swindler of the interests of all 29 or 31 allies, no matter how many there actually are, but all the same , this is all in the background for the time being, this is all still talk, is anyone in nato really ready to do a real offer, an effective offer to ukraine in... without the occupied territories, if you start thinking about what options are possible, there are many options, there is, for example, a purely theoretical option, france once withdrew from the military structures of nato, remaining in the political ones, yes, there was such a time you remember, they made the decision that we go separately, understanding that we should stay in the nordic council, in theory, purely in theory, one can imagine the situation when the washington summit, which is terribly symbolic, in washington was the first summit of the alliance, and here again washington makes this decision and we are told that ukraine... must become a member of the alliance, first a political one, and a military committee, the so-called ukraine will enter after the end of the war, this will be a clear and direct answer to putin, whatever you do, we ,

nato. we are making decisions about the future of ukraine of ukraine, not you. yes, we cannot distribute the fifth article right now, but ukraine is already sitting with us, it is already making decisions, it is already working as one organism. why not offer? was offered. and well, there are other options. well, for example, you can search for what was offered and what, in kyiv, they refused such an offer? there are a lot of these proposals, and this, this is the task of a diplomat, to offer solutions. well, there is, i, i 'm trying to avoid answers right now. i want to give another example, there are other options, for example, bilateral agreements, which now our side is leading, well, for example, you remember that great britain entered the war against the nazis on 1 september 39 because poland was attacked, not britain, poland was attacked, but there were bilateral security arrangements between poland and britain and defense, and that's why britain said, no, wait, we're fulfilling our bilateral obligations, and we're going to war, now that democratic countries are as sensitive,

as complex as they've become. it is very difficult for them to make a personal, personalized decision, and that's why things like an alliance like nato, for example, are created, but there is, for example, the so-called format, the best ally outside the alliance of the united states, we discussed this option too, the usa as the usa, israel, the usa, taiwan, the usa, the philippines , the usa, japan, the usa, brazil, that is, those countries that are not members of the alliance, but are the closest allies, it was perceived in a distorted way in ukraine, as if america is offering us something that is not there. throws a die that is not nato, and thereby fixes that ukraine will not become a member of the alliance, because precisely these countries are not members of the alliance, on the contrary, the united states has proposed to us that until you can become a member of the alliance, in order to supply you with the weapons that you need, in particular the patriots, in particular the f-16s, in particular the abrahams, which are limited to non- nato members, a special one-to-one format was created that allows us to open this flow of weapons, this is what we need right away,

too. what we talk about every day, it could have been done some time ago, it was possible by becoming a part of this format bilateral relations with the united states at the level of the so-called best ally outside the alliance, where were the congressmen who prepared this project, by the way, the project provided for one point, it was written that this format is valid until ukraine becomes a member of the alliance, that is, they this was also thought about, it did not close the gate to us in any way, and this was one of the proposals that the united states made to us. before the war, i want to emphasize, before the war, then before the war no one even wanted to talk about it, it was unpopular because, because nato and the eu were in the constitution, this is exactly the problem of professional communication and emotional communication, it seems to me that we need to reduce the level of emotions and try to hear each other, when we hear even those whom we consider our political opponents or i don't know there media opponents, just

to understand that we are all on the same side. the offer of the united states to become a member of this 1-on-1 format, the so-called nnma (non nato major ali), allowed us to open access to much-needed weapons. thank god that with we didn't need this format during the war, now they give us that. but it could happen that we would be limited by the inability to get really advanced weapons just because we are not members of the alliance and not members of this bilateral program. okay, so what do you expect from the nato summit in washington at the end? on the 24th, he will be able to take symbolic steps, well, there are important symbolic steps, they were so symbolic in vilnius, another symbolic one, well, you know, i don’t see anything wrong with the action program , what kind of membership, if we were given it, even in the citizens of vilnius were invited to the map, it would also be an equally beautiful political step to tell the russians: you see, we tried for 15 years to get invited after the summit in bucharest, and now we have been invited, because our progress is recognized, because we have become...