i will repeat that polish farmers are a significant electoral group, but i will repeat that it is not necessary to see behind all this, you know, some kind of global conspiracy and that everything is now a disaster, no, it will not be like that, i am sure that after all , brussels will pay , let's say so, and that's good, well, i don't want to say, just, well, if ukraine was on the way to the european integration of poland, the fact is that europe has already repeatedly offered to pay poland in the form of creation. some alternative ways of supplying these goods through the territory of poland to the nearest european ports, at the moment the poles there did not like it, they said: we will protest as we protested, to what valentyn said about the importance of farmers, i will also say that the field of logistics brings about 17% of gdp e of the polish state, and this is a crazy argument in favor of treating them more carefully and more gently, that's what the representatives really said. the polish

authorities have repeatedly said that one, let's say, one kind of manifestation is not enough here will succeed, that is, how much this situation has already worsened under the previous government there or this interim government, which moravetsky tried to do or even before the elections, that now it is not possible to untangle this tangle so easily, here we really need to approach with some systemic, well, complex, let's say, maybe solutions to the question, why did i ask what signal we read about, because it seemed that no one tried to untangle this tangle. that the authorities generally ignored this issue and tusk said even before his appointment that we predecessors simply ignored this issue, there was no one to negotiate with. now the appearance of a specific person, a specific prime minister has already arrived, well, mr. sikorsky is talking about the fact that we have someone to negotiate with. well, first of all, it seems to me that the arrival of the new minister of foreign affairs to ukraine shows that poland wants to restart relations with ukraine globally. tusk said that for him ukraine is a priority, that what the previous one actually led to. the government is not a model of

relations between two friendly countries there, which they consider each other, well , they call each other brothers and sisters, so it is necessary to take different approaches, in fact, this is the message that tusk sent, asking for his first meeting with zelenskyi, unfortunately, it took place in an online format, but as insiders say, he could zelensky being on the decision of the european union to open negotiations and there could be a physical one, indicates that the ice is still breaking, this is the one that was at the moment, but in the future, we should definitely count on such easy solutions to complex problems no need, because there are a lot of systemic things there in the economic plane, in the political plane , of course, and even in the historical plane, because we have a lot of issues here, and actually right now there are no prerequisites for this problem to be solved, and we will also come to some common compromise, but nevertheless a new track has been launched and it is very important that this government appeared pro-ukrainian in europe, in contrast to many politicians who are now raising their heads in europe, who... you just have to

understand that tusk has much better relations with the european bureaucracy because the previous ones political regime, had rather strained relations with the european union, in many moments was also perceived by europe with skepticism, not so much as the orbán regime, but also with certain cautions, so i tend to think that tusk has. there are much more chances to settle this issue at the level of the european union, well, mr. timofia, i want to ask, we talked about compromise, how this way of finding a compromise from an economic point of view might look like in this system, because many colleagues, if we talk about the problems of farmers are precisely the problems of the border, they said that for tusk's government it would be far from a primary problem, do you know

tusk's compromise with the european union, and at the same time with ukraine. and maybe you can name some specific points on which they will be the first to start negotiating and forecasting. what happened from an economic point of view , the incomes of the carriers fell, because russian and belarusian transit was closed due to sanctions, because of the war, and this is the first thing, certain russian companies began to enter, including in poland, to open, to create... additional competition, and ukrainian carriers are coming , there are many of them and it is important, but not all polish carriers are ready to go to a country with a war, that is, they actually have less income, a smaller market, and this causes conflicts, it also happens in our country when the economy is worse, there are more political conflicts, this is natural, here i agree that there is no betrayal, yes, what, this is natural, now for... farmers, really, farmers, most of

them, they are small, and they are actually not competitive, they subsidies, they have there is also a gray market, there is corruption, and there the structure of that market is not quite correct. they don't really have any motivation to show anything and they get subsidies, because they are not paid a subsidy, not for how much you produce, but for a square hectare, meter, etc., yes, so it is profitable for them to create a gray market and show that they are poor, they need more subsidies, that is, this political process is created from there, and the european union, by the way, does not really like to give money there, but is forced to farmers, and... which countries or specifically in poland? well, in others too, but specifically about poland in brussels, well, i had conversations with departments that are certain that they are dissatisfied, that they constantly have to contribute to the inefficient market, this gray system, gray system, and that politically, political problems, they are there, they can

be solved, but we need to find a way to turn it from a conflict situation, i speak as an economist, to what is called a zero-sum game, if we like. they are worse off, or if they are better, then we are worse off, for some game, for the game in the sense of some market, some reforms that will help everyone, for example, the land market, for example, you can create a cross-border infrastructure fund that will increase infrastructure for farmers on this side of the border, and on that side of the border, that will invest in transshipment, that will allow joint ventures. joint financing, so that the interests are economic, they are tied together, and it became profitable to work together, instead of fighting each other politically. what, for example , is one of the specific problems: the elevators of small farmers are blocked, because they have nowhere to go to deliver goods,

there is not enough space for storage, because they are small, and why is it clogged, of course, gray, black, white market, ukraine produces grain, there is no way to export, ugh. the warehouses are clogged on both sides of the border, they are simply clogged, and therefore, if we invest in more warehouses, in modern warehouses, give the opportunity to polish farmers to be part of these investments, then they will already see some, well, plus for themselves from solving the problem, and now they see only the downside, that they will have to compromise, are the talks already going in this direction or, no, unfortunately, how the system of interaction is built, well... very simplified, well, how budgets and reforms and financing, each country has its own excel file, well, it is not an excel file, but a large database, yes, and poland has its own , and ukraine has its own, and in order to do something on the border, we need some kind of joint excel sheet, yes, so that it can be seen there that we can earn together, and yes,

what should i invest, if this is where the poles will invest or the ukrainians, that is, it is really necessary through the european union to create some kind of program, and here is the economy. they talk about it, but politics is not yet, well, it sounds very attractive , well, there is just one more nuance, you asked whether such talks are taking place, such talks are actually taking place, but there are nuances, no one from the polish side is sure that after solving some security problems, this logistics route will retain its relevance, that is, they fear that now they will invest in the construction of many new infrastructure projects, and... after , for example, the black sea area is unblocked again, well, how much ukrainian interest will remain already business is to exploit this infrastructure, so the question is how to build long-term projects in common interests, and here it is correct, well, mr.

tymofiy says that it will not work out that way, that roughly speaking, let us enter your market and we will have all the buns and poems there. bereshki, yes, as the old man knows these fairy tales, we will protect our market there and will not allow your business entities to come to us, well, this is where the question of the lobby begins, yes, that is, the lobby on the other side of the border wants to protect its privileged interests, the lobby from our side of the border is also not burning with the desire to see here , roughly speaking, what the poles are talking about today, well, even this is not so much what the poles are saying as in europe they are talking about the creation of joint enterprises, the creation of well so that even carriers, roughly saying yes for them to merge their assets, yes, that is, when they demand one of the demands, it seems to me that it is inadequate, to give polish carriers access to the system, i wonder why they do this, and do you know why? because a large part of the drivers who work for polish carriers are citizens of ukraine, and why? because a significant part

of polish drivers work in britain, well , you understand, it seems to me that this requirement is inadequate, but we understand that if the carriers on one side and on the other side manage to form a joint venture. an enterprise with joint assets, well then there will be no such need to give the poles access to the system, because this is an absurd demand, in my opinion, the most important thing is that now the politicians talk about it, they talk about it, they talk about it, but about this, i will repeat that here ... mr. timofey said that he speaks as an economist, but we understand that not always exclusively economic is converted directly into political, well , the point is, i just wanted to add that at one time, when poland was joining the european union, the situation was absolutely identical with the germans, who did not want the market to be dumped by polish carriers, in fact now poland very seriously controls the european transportation market, but they still managed to achieve this again through reciprocal bilateral concessions and not only bilaterally, but also with other countries as well... there were similar things, so ukraine, as a state that is on the threshold of starting negotiations on joining the eu with each of the countries

of the european union, including poland, will be forced in one way or another to go to similar concessions and look for mutually beneficial ways to improve the economic situation, and in fact, the sooner we can reach some kind of consensus here, well, bilateral, no one is saying that ukraine must fulfill 100% of the requirements that are currently there, because it is not which will not lead to the confederation will come up with a dozen more new demands. because the ministry of ukrainian reconstruction has already held these meetings with polish colleagues and in fact has already implemented many things from those who would like, let's say , the polish side, not the state, but the protesters, and this has led to the fact that every time the confederation refuses, let's say new ones in our country demands, let's still fulfill it, so it is important to understand that we are going to the european union, we will be part of the european union, the borders between us and poland will not change, so we need to look for long-term systemic solutions, you talked about... people with whom we have to negotiate and partly the demands that we fulfill, but this does not

change anything, and again there is a demand, of course, i want to go to mr. orbán, yes, because you all so you say that we have to agree with everyone and we will agree with everyone through bilateral compromises, the actual question is whether we can agree with everyone and whether everyone is ready for adequate bilateral compromises, we know that the president is already supposedly planning a joint meeting with both presidents and whether we have there real objective grounds. to find an adequate compromise, here economic and political science has a very clear answer: first, bilateral compromises are more expensive than coalition compromises, why? because the last one who doesn't agree, like viktor orbán, he can demand tens of billions of dollars, we've all seen the very funny stories on social networks where the big track is going. built, and there is a house in the middle, because this person demanded some super high money, and

it was necessary to either pay a lot with it, or to circle around it, unfortunately, with the european union it will not be possible to circle the european union around a specific state, in the european union itself, people are worried that leaders like viktor orbán or robert fico, they are dangerous, first of all , for... the european union itself, because they openly propagandize, carry out advocacy against the european union, they say that the european union harms the citizens of their countries, and they use populist rhetoric, and brussels and others are interested, there have even been statements that we need to leave, but there are corruption scandals, there are even criminal scandals connected. inside the european union

, there are talks about changing the voting mechanisms in order to move to a possible majority, perhaps some qualified majority, no less than there, for example, 75% or 90%, but so that no one has the right. not even a country, but a person, because a person can simply say, it doesn't matter what the parliament of that country decides, it doesn't matter what the meps of that country decide, it's important that the prime minister, a specific person decides, and i will vote against, because today i liked it so much and it's actually very bad, it's a flaw in the democratic infrastructure and... it has to be fixed , and i think it will be fixed, the thing is that apart from the limited option

there, the right of veto in a separate country, and according to the norms of non-fulfillment of some democratic obligations in the european union, there is also the possibility of not moving to a qualified majority there, but simply limiting the possibility of individual countries to participate in voting, not even by simple majority voting there and to make decisions, just say orban, ot you drank coffee for ukraine , we are worried about him and his health, everything is fine. the doctor said that it is possible, if you drink water, but nevertheless, there are reasons, there is a platform for objective agreements, or not, he will once again be a poor man against and come up with these new arguments to the last. well, the fact is that orbán currently understands the beautiful language of blackmail, he understands that by using this rather faulty

infrastructure of the european union, says mr. tymofiy, he is not just extracting resources from it. institutions in order to survive alone, the economy there is not in the best condition, he perfectly understands that without european money it will be oh, how sad he is, that is why there have already been certain conversations with him several times, and the last one, which was with macron and scholz , once again confirmed that, friend, if not there will be some more reasonable, let's say strategic position on the part of hungary , other sanctions will be applied against you, so here we are now standing on the threshold of two, let's say , decisions, one - it will be possible because orbán will simply go out to drink coffee during important decisions, will not block this one process, the other is that other mechanisms for revising decision-making rules will be applied, which will also make such an imbalance of power within the institution impossible, because at the global level the european union has already made a decision, ukraine is an indisputable part of the european union, it will join there, 26 countries

out of 27 voted for, that is, it means a compromise at the general level on the system. levels, and when an individual player tries to show how strong he is, to play with his muscles and blackmail everyone with his rules, which exist in the european union, it will not work, and orbán needs to understand this as soon as possible, see, but nevertheless orbán feels his power, he can blackmail, at least he allows himself to do it, does he feel some kind of support behind his back, because for good reason arose, this recent term arose. austria-hungary, you know, this is the revival. well, if we mentioned austria-hungary, then i would advise mr. orbán to remind the uprising of the hungarians just to austria, right? when they fought for national recognition. because in austro-hungary, hungarian was only a name. because in everything else they dominated and spoke the german language, and the hungarians were in

the same, well, relatively speaking, well, not in a later, but colonial status. that is, if you have ever been to... budapest, yes, they are kidding themselves, it is very easy to remember the history of hungary, yes, that is, it is the date when they came, this is the date when the current budapest was built, yes, that is, and actually saying, everything, that is, and here it must be understood that in fact orban, he simply felt a sore point in the european union, yes, that is, it is not a problem of relations between ukraine and hungary, that is are there any problematic issues in ukraine's relations with hungary, which hungary has the same problematic relations with romania, the same relations with croatia, the same relations with slovakia, but nevertheless, the meeting between president zelenskyi and viktor orban is being talked about, that it to be honest, i just haven't gotten to the point yet that we just have to consider that, well, bilateral, this is only one component, there is definitely something to talk about, but

the key point is orbán's relationship with the european union, and he uses the relationship with ukraine , relationships from russia exclusively as a kind of trump card that he pulls out when he has to play a game of well at this european gaming table, that is, but you should not think that in europe they do not understand this, and the colleague said it absolutely correctly, that is, they already also well understood this story, when he draws these trumps, and there is one more nuance, here we are talking on the eve of christmas, yes, there is a beautiful quote in the gospel about the fact that where your treasures are, there are your heart and treasures. the treasure is not in russia, and the treasures of hungary are not in russia, theirs the main economic partner is the european union, the market is broken, the european union , the financial market, the european union, the labor market, the european union, and when it comes to profit, well, political differences, as the recent investment activity of petro poroshenko proved, proves that

orban is not orban , but if some papers give profitability, then you can. then it's a mistake , there are a million mechanisms to not do this, or to do it because an official of one state will receive grapes, financial income from the government of another state, then this is at least a reason to ask whether there is a conflict of interest, but that is the subject, no, it looks very bad actually, but i am not talking about that, i'm just talking about it. that when there are some real interests, and the interests of hungary really lie in the sphere of the european union, then the european union, in principle, also has, roughly speaking, up its sleeves. trump cards are necessary in order to explain to orbán and hungary that it is an endless game card, that i will prevent ukraine from joining, and

you want ukraine to join, well , it won't work, you understand what the matter is, and there is one more nuance, hungary has internal politics, and i think hungary also has politicians who first of all, orbán is also a little shriveled, there are hungarian citizens in hungary who are also a little shriveled by orbán's regime, to put it mildly, and that's great. understand that orbán's policy may pose a threat to the interests of precisely these domestic political subjects, and orbán also understands this, that is, in fact, despite that he allegedly wants to present himself, that i have no money, i'm not afraid of pain, that he's such a reckless type, well, no, no, believe me, he's actually much more adequate, pragmatic than he sometimes wants to show himself, let's go with you the last remark, let's close the topic, because we have a big internal discussion and i'm just. i will clarify one moment , you know, it was mentioned that orbán met with scholz and macron, but, well, as many have noticed, he changed his position not after meeting with them, but after meeting with a woman, yes, with

mrs. maloney, who evidently somehow managed to convey to him that these cards must have been worn out a little. yes, simply summarizing everything that was said, firstly, orban understands that in the difficult economic conditions in which hungary is without external subsidies, if these resources are limited, he is on his own for a long time. the chair will not last, and he is simply forced to compromise with the european union, just as he is sometimes compromised by the european union, in order for him to vote for or another solution, maybe the european union is a super-bureaucratic system there, which makes decisions very slowly, but you know, changes accumulate gradually, and are implemented very instantaneously and quickly, so at some point, when this patience has already broken out in most politicians, they will speed up theirs, let's say your desire to trim a little. wings to orbán and show that we can do without you, in fact. unfortunately, there is no official procedure for exiting the european union, but i think that there may be desires in hungary itself in

under the conditions of a tough attitude from the european union, to leave the european union. and the last, perhaps the most important point, why the european union cannot allow such behavior by orbán, because in the conditions of these eurosceptic sentiments that are growing in the european union, they need to show that the institution is stronger than any individual country in the context. making joint decisions, and so that similar processes do not take place in slovakia, so that this does not happen in the netherlands with a possible next prime minister with anti-european intentions, all these separate players, that the european union is an institution with values ​​and with some common aspirations , you either support them and you are in the team, or you do not support them and work somewhere, and you can make one more remark, when it was brexit, there was a very popular slogan in britain, it was very often written on the walls not only in britain, but now it is also written in europe and... the slogan is as follows: separation is not the solution, it must be understood that the collapse of the european union will not solve any domestic political problem in none

the member countries of this entity, on the contrary, can create many others, and despite all this rhetoric of individual politicians, they all understand in practice that to dismantle this structure now means to put their own peoples, their own nations, states before absolutely. new challenges that can end in very tragic consequences, one should not think that they are all inadequate. the most important thing, i think, here is that people who live in these countries with some new views also understand this and do not support it, because in fact there are a lot studies that even investigated identity, how in individual countries of the european union their citizens define their identity, whether they consider themselves european or, for example, french or german. and the number of people who consider themselves europeans is systematically increasing , but this is a matter of values, let's finish the international one, we have left, yes, let's leave the international track, we'll talk

a little about america at the end, now there, well, the actualization is happening here, the press conference of the president has passed zelenskyi, we have some left 10 minutes before we go to the news, before we come back, you know, after putin's press conference , everyone understood the one point he wanted to make, that he was enjoying himself. with this war , he is not going to end it, what is the main thought that remained with you after the press conference of the ukrainian president, that the president does not enjoy this war, but as the head of state, the guarantor of the constitution, accordingly , the territorial integrity of the state sovereignty of ukraine, as well as constitutional rights and freedoms citizens of ukraine, he does everything is possible for ukraine to win this war, that is, he does it not because he wants it, not because he likes it, not... not because it brings him certain political benefits in the long run, as some sympathizers of the former president of ukraine write, yes, why us, why us, well, this is the height of inadequacy,

when i read it, i was simply shocked. what is the use of ukraine's victory, if as a result of this victory this green fool will only strengthen its position in ukraine, these are simply inadequate people, i will cut off my finger so that my mother will be in pain, but my ears are freezing, but to my grandmother’s displeasure , zelenskyi, he, well, to me, he looks like, and i think to most adults, he looks like a leader, a military man, during wartime, who carries , carries a huge weight and responsibility, accepts. about the life and death of hundreds of thousands, tens of thousands of people, and he also has this strength, and fatigue, and strength and fatigue, because he is a man, and both, yes, yes, he, and strength and fatigue, and he, on in my opinion, a historical leader for ukraine, and a little shame for some

question, a little. not much, but a little ashamed, he said, it is important, you know, that both ours and international ones are actually interesting, yes, yes, yes, that's why i don't say, but a little ashamed, yes, for, for some assumptions in these matters, for trying to provoke someone, yes, ah , i was in the government, i was in peacetime, i know how difficult people's questions are, that it is impossible not to make perfect decisions, during the war i even, well... i don't i can imagine how it can be endured, yes, psychologically, humanly, from an interesting conversation about mobilization, for me it is, well, it is very delicate, but she is honest, i would also interfere with that, by the way, we talked about the fact that for the first time, we probably heard some figures on mobilization, most importantly the economy of this mobilization, we guessed it somewhere there,

we understood. that it costs money, but how much money does it cost and how much money and additional effort is required for it, it seems to me that this is the first time we are talking about this, i think we are starting with this topic, okay, fine, i don't mind, look, there is a problem, we have to have an honest conversation between civilians and military in this country, in our country, in ukraine, some people afraid to fight, some shy away. well, it's normal to be afraid, to be afraid, but to take action , to evade, well, there is such a thing, you can't, i can't condemn people, i'm a civilian myself, i don't fight, so i don't have the moral right to condemn someone, but that too, we have to speak honestly about the fact that some of us who stood up, well, for protection, showed heroism, as the president said, i'm staying in kyiv, that's what people said, on the first day of the war, they left without

armor gel. without drones, without weapons, without ammunition, they went to the checkpoints, went to the trenches to defend ukraine, the queues of soldiers stood, someone, again, this is not a judgement, but the reality is this, someone has been abroad for two, two , two years, yes, and we have to talk about it, there are many people who died, there are many people injured, they, i heard terrible stories . about how cruel our society is to veterans who have lost, for example, arms or legs, or to their families, i know a story where a man came back without legs and arms, and the neighbor says to his wife, why did you let him go, i didn't let go of mine, and...

it's a shame that she went from black to white, it's upside down, it should be shame on the other one, not that i’m even saying that, who didn’t let her go, who hid her own, and now she can live here not only in a russian concentration camp, because this person left, we have to have these conversations , and here is the president, in my opinion, began to talk about it, carefully, very, very carefully, but this is a question about mobilization and the answer to... it was serious, it was not like putin's, and what kind of mobilization, they don't need to sit down, no, there was, that the military they ask half a million people, but for the economy - this is the first, second, you need to pay taxes, this there was an interim, there was an interim, you have to pay taxes during the war, yes that, and that's very important, especially when external support can decrease, so there are

things like that that are important to how we as a society gather. go through this war together.