these 50 billion, they promised that in the new year we will get it all, but in general and the tendency is that there is less support, that they exhaust their reserves, and at the end of this year the aid was significantly less than at the end of the previous year, everyone noted, well, the institute for the study of war overseas said that yes, yes, yes, if all this aid stops coming to ukraine, we will not be able to deter the enemy on our own, how many percent... is this truth undeniable, are there any other options , maybe we need a little bit too to become active, to do something in the end and do it yourself, you know, an absolutely valid statement , the question, the only thing i would say, the specifics of your activity is that there is truth, there is falsehood, and how to understand, how to distinguish the information that goes especially abroad, whether it is sponsored by the russian federation. on the maintenance of the russian federation,

or it is real, it is very difficult, right? but, well, let's say, there are special services that monitor all this, and when journalists try to me, you know, make references to those or other media, i can, as a rule, name two or three journalists from these media that are actually used by the russian federation in full, that is... let's figure out whether this information is fake. now to the second part of your question, i can answer, as bad as it sounds, i'm glad it's happening. why glad? because 30 years, maybe even a little more, yes already. all our great strategists, who called themselves supreme commanders there, destroyed our defense. industrial complex, they don't have it

were building, the prime minister was doing the same thing, i can give dozens of examples, but this is the first time we started to think about the fact that if we want to survive as a nation, we must build our capabilities to defend ourselves, and the best thing about this issue is not in the fact that ours is, let's say, an institute of science, right? let's say about all these institutions, which , excuse me, have the word science in their name, help, namely, ordinary engineers try to come up with different proposals, completely different, which help to create unmanned platforms, systems, but again we say but, but the bottom line is that...

the worthy cabinet of ministers of ukraine, as a leading structure from the verkhovna rada of ukraine, does not ensure the sustainable development of this direction, and they are trying to do something, but they do not ensure sustainable, powerful development, because i can give examples when turkey actually managed to increase its production by 10 times in one year. well, let's say so, because the construction of warships of different calibers, and this is a fact, why can't we do the same precisely in other fields in other directions, this is a question, a question of experience, a question of expertise, a question of engagement, because, for example, when i am called by a surname, and i immediately associate that surname with a certain oligarch, and i say to myself, how much, for example, today one

or another oligarch would like to go through, well , let's say, the process of the european union, which is connected with the return of the property that once belonged to someone, well, as a rule, during the time of the revolution, here we can also mention the confectionery factory of karl marx, which by 5% belonged to belgian citizens, we can mention a lot of other things here, and here... i am afraid that behind the statements that we are european integration, there may be simply a simple countdown and diversion of us from euro-atlantic integration, european integration through such managers, who today associated with certain oligarchs. in your opinion, in ukraine, there within a year, two years, what can be started, production? development of what and what

part of the military needs of ukraine, for this specific war, we can satisfy ourselves, therefore that we understand that russia is a huge giant and here... the number of shells that we need, it is difficult for one country to actually manufacture, and the same with the drone and with everything else, you know, the question is not even that, the question is , what do you ask, when you and i consider these aspects of the development of the defense-industrial complex, i will ask you a very simple question, which lobbies, pro-russian lobbies, how many of them actually dominate today? in our ukrainian environment, who are trying to bring all this down, as far as our counterintelligence today, both the civilian, let's say so, and the military are capable of countering these challenges that are being asked of us today, this is a very key question, because any development, it

immediately becomes a target, and in order for it not to become a target, it needs, in some way, the counterintelligence structure must counteract this. i will inform the environment, this, let's say, canned goods, this, in fact, the structures that left the russian federation here to oppose development, if you answer this question from another level, we have many opportunities, believe me, there are many, there are many talented engineers, but i do not see the ministry today. economy , or i don’t see the desire of the ministry of strategy and industry, well, what is 10 thousand drones a month, well, they promise a million for next year, but you say, they promise, when the armed forces say, we need

a million for yesterday, so explain to me how the cabinet of ministers in full warehouse is ready to look him in the eye, he is not... you can look him in the eye, because today he did not carry out a cleaning or restructuring according to european standards of an agency engaged in public service, or an agency that deals with the personnel policy of the military, well, there is another question , that in fact, during the war, there is always someone who is in the war, as they say, it is bad, making money, that is, really making money, well, what is making money, we here are all communists or something, well, the idea here is that there was a friendly war, and for example, enterprises that could work for the defense complex, they made money, these were private enterprises, mostly in the united states, fine, but we need to distinguish simply two processes because

but look, what difference does it make if someone becomes a dollar billionaire, because he, for example, can make us 2,000 drones there, for example, in not... i know at least one company a year, who is against that? no, yes, look, no one is against it, i agree absolutely 100% with oksana, no one is against making money, i am against the theft of the ukrainian budget, remember, the last point thrown at society is the creation of some private personnel structures that will be conducted. recruiting, ugh, sorry, but i refrain from of this word, why, let's say this, why do we have territorial centers today, let them conduct advertising, let them, excuse me, how it is done everywhere, let them interest people, the same can be done by

the territorial defense brigades, the same can be done and combat brigades to those cells that were left on the ground, and, by the way, lviv showed this very well by example. assault, if i am not mistaken, memories, that is, it is possible, but our task, you as the fourth branch of government, ours, for example, as a civil society, is to develop democratic civilian oversight, which has had a relevant subcommittee for almost 3 months, and in three months this subcommittee, unfortunately, has not provided us with anything, you started talking about a fresh case, i thought you were talking about something else. you said the wrong thing, so i will ask, this last story, yes, when an official of the ministry of defense was suspected of embezzling one and a half, in an attempt to embezzle 1.5 billion uah for the purchase of artillery shells, there were already

such thoughts that after all the scandals with reznikov in the summer , there will definitely not be such a thing that defenses are already on weapons, on weapons purchases will not be so open. brazenly making money, although experts and investigators said that it is energy, energy protection and procurement of the ministry of defense, these are two powerful niches in ukraine, there are still places where you can ... grab the rough money somewhere, you know, in this case i will say , ms. koxan, what are you wrong, why are you wrong , you say after the minister of defense, i say, what if he is punished or should he be offered as an ambassador to great britain, i mean that it will not get worse, here it turns out, no, the system remained, the system remained, you see, people's deputies... including those who today head the subcommittee on democratic civilian oversight and the committee on

actual armed forces, intelligence and defense development, they are not interested today in the fact that these, let's say, money flows have been disrupted , because in the opposite case, if they were in favor of... 4210 as a draft law would have been born a long time ago, it cannot be born in any way, it is already more than, excuse me, three years old, soon the fourth will pass, we would have others born legislative acts that concern democratic civilian oversight, we still have chatter, there are, excuse me, some statements on the air regarding that one is wrong, that one is wrong, that the armed forces should do this... do this, the armed forces are actually a tool for using that

resource , which will be provided by the state, the cabinet of ministers of ukraine, first of all. mr. igor, we have to take a short break now, we still have a whole bunch of questions, and let's take a short break, then we'll come back and finish what we started discussing, please wait, in a few minutes we let's continue our conversation. turn on well - this is when everything is as you want, click and you are in the world of cartoons, click and the universe of cinema is around, then, what is needed. turn on hundreds of channels, thousands of movies and sports. there has been an accident, nina galamask, your mother. there are other relatives. but it seems you have a grandfather.

and if there are no cigarettes, what will you smoke? he says: well, if there are no cigarettes, then there will be smoking, how long do you need? it takes 10 days, that's what you have to do, i didn't come here to watch old farts picking pine cones in the woods, what will be your vacations!

i ask you to pray to god, i ask you to drink. and tomorrow he will fly to his sunny italy. mykola, don't spill blood on your wedding night. no need.

carols and completely new author's carols performed by sofia fedyna, as well as stories of people who devoted themselves to the defense of the country. as a volunteer at first, i traveled, helped the guys, got to know the guys, and somehow that's how i screwed everything up. feel the christmas miracle, feel the power of the unity of caring people. volunteer christmas, december 24 at 6:15 p.m. at espresso. channel espresso and ukrainian. pen present the project own names with myroslava barchuk, a series of conversations with ukrainian and western intellectuals who interpret and comment on the most relevant social discussions, what news will be analyzed by the guests of the project this week and actually who will be the guest of the studio, we will find out this sunday, definitely, the topics will be relevant,

special guests, own names with myroslava barchuk. sunday, 17:10 at espresso. we are going to our studio, let me remind you that our guest is in the studio today, we have such a guest today, even in the studio, that we don't have every time it happens, this is mr. dmytro koziy, my god, ivan koziy, igor, igor koziy, my god, everything, everything is collected, it is the end of the working week, it is late, and we are already confusing everything, it happens, we are living people, a military expert of the euro-atlantic institute cooperation, and i didn't have time to ask my question before the break . i was confused, mr. igor, by the statements that it seems that putin is sending some secret signals, that he wants to negotiate, he wants to freeze it all, how seriously should we take this, what kind of story is this, come on, freezing and signals, separately, signals,

he blinks an eye or something, it is definitely necessary not to pay attention to it. we definitely need to do what we need, we definitely need to do only what we need, but we must clearly understand our own resource in these matters, which we can use, many people associate people with the word resource, well, i mean the word resource i connect the cabinet of ministers of ukraine, modern technologies, modern weapons, which the cabinet of ministers should have. to give to the armed forces, that's the first thing, the second thing about the freeze, yes, he's interested in a freeze, but definitely not, we are not interested in a freeze, because any, dear, dear freeze, it is actually a time to prepare the next attack on us, on

the baltic countries, an attempt to shake the situation of finland and... and so on, that is, it is necessary understand clearly, i think that today the special services are doing everything in order to provide relevant material and show how dangerous this trend is, and whether there is a situation when freezing can benefit us, because it is also the same, if a game for two, maybe we will be able to prepare better, after all, croatia regained their lands in serbia after a few years, see development. the economy of the west has not managed to give us during this year what was promised by a million shells, i am talking about a developed economy, do you think that we will have time to create enterprises, re-equip them in a modern way, make

the appropriate management related to the resources of... pov 'related to electricity, related to the protection of this enterprise and everything else, you see, right, we have to do it from the wheel, and it's cool, uh, why, because modern experience is gained, but that's then it's great, when there is an interest of the ministry or the cabinet of ministers of ukraine, to try to develop it, to create suitable platforms for the creation of such enterprises, we need them. you know, right, hubs where possible , built a factory, shut down a factory, moved a factory, you understand, but for this you need to have imagination, for this you need to have many things, and first of all, really specialists, do not let them out of the point of view, forbid , and not to release them from the point of view of giving opportunities to work

at these enterprises, this is the key a question with which, in my opinion, the cabinet of ministers has not coped at all... so far , mr. igor, thank you for the answer, now we will add andreas umland, an analyst of the stockholm center for eastern european studies, to our conversation. congratulations, mr. andreas. congratulations. ihor koziy, a military expert of the institute of euro-atlantic cooperation, also works in our studio, and we just discussed the fact that putin seems to be sending some signals to the west that he wants to negotiate with ukraine, to freeze. conflict and whether ukraine can be in any case it is advantageous to freeze the conflict in order to regroup a little somewhere, gather efforts and then make a dash. to return our territories, then we will also ask you to answer this question, is it really possible to freeze the conflict, is it possible that the west will insist, push

us to such a decision, maybe even in such a way that they will help less? well , i hope that they will remember a very old statement of a german theorist of war. who said in 1832, if i remember correctly, that the aggressor wants peace, that is, of course, the aggressor wants peace, he wants to seize the territory, if he has it, if the aggressor has the territory, then for him, if peace, it is useful, and here, as it were... they correctly said another factor, that putin probably does not just wants to seize these territories, which is currently occupied, he wants even more to seize

territories and regroup and then attack again, i think that now in the west they already understand this and understand the logic of behavior, and i hope that there will not be any reaction here such a signal, i i... excludes what is really there such signals that this is not just an invention of some journalists, but that it is probably really useful for russia now to conclude some kind of truce. mr. andrias, we also talked now about the fact that ukraine is in a difficult situation, expecting further help from the european union and the united states, and there are many predictions that ukraine will not be able to hold on well, if not from. this aid is renewed in its entirety, and on the other hand, at the beginning of the war, many people said that europe, the european union, and

the united states together have dozens times more powerful than the gdp of the economy, much more technologically advanced weapons, and it would seem that in this war, if the aid is sufficient, russia will have no chance, on the other hand, they said that ukraine will have no chance, likewise, of course, here we are again in the situation when someone... says that, uh, the aid to ukraine was unprecedented anyway, it is more than the marshall plan was there at the time, it was already spent, and on the other hand they say that it was terribly insufficient for victory, aid for victory, who is right here, and whose opinion will win in your opinion next year , well, i think, there were simply after the 22nd year there were two mistakes, firstly, there was a mistake that somehow the sanctions would have an effect, and that thus a big effect, they have an effect , of course, and they separate this

war too, because russia does not have all the technologies that it could have without sanctions, and there is also a certain effect on the economy, but a large effect, unfortunately, it didn't happen, so far and probably... well, it's not so fast, it will happen quickly, and the second mistake was that, well, there was the hope that the russian army will be the same, ineffective in 22-3, as it was in 22, that is, there were these relatively easy victories of ukraine in 22, and therefore there was hope. that new victories will be just as easy, and alas, these are these mistakes , they created this situation now that

there were no great victories, at least on matrykova of ukraine, the situation is different there, of course in the black sea, there there there were, i think, great victories, but this does not apply yet... to the forge of ukraine, i, well, i hope that now in the west i will understand this, these mistakes and will give more, and give more weapons and give better weapons, and that, if not in the 24th, then later in the 25th year, there will be new, new victories, i also think that there is probably... a certain sense of hope, that there will be some internal developments, internal politics in russia, well,

for now it is certainly not possible. to say , but what we had, for example, with this, prigozhin's rebellion in the last year, this year, maybe something similar, or some other problems of domestic politics may also arise now, well, it is very difficult to predict, of course, but now the regime, it controls the situation less, putin's regime than. before the great war, i will glean from your question, i will glean the answers from your question to mr. igor, do you think that the victories we won last year were quite disastrous in comparison, and whether it was expedient to postpone the counteroffensive, about which we so loudly , so much, under the influence, of course, also of the west , they said in the spring, the result was not

what we so... expected those wild, wild expectations, we failed to meet them appease. well, first of all, allow me to congratulate mr. umland on the coming holidays, i think that he will also celebrate christmas, and also answer a number of questions, yes, including what you say. first, let's get along with you in this regard. when the announcement was made that contour. the attack will be prepared and that an unprepared counter-offensive will not go, you and i have heard this from zaluzhnyi, and unfortunately, i do not know what made him change his point of view and go into an unprepared counter-offensive. it is difficult to say for many reasons whether it did not work intelligence or the intelligence community and did not

provide correct information. was it actually political pressure or was it other issues that actually led to the unexpected. second, you and i saw during this period actually a very powerful work of the mass media, which carried an absolutely positive message, an unrealistically positive message, which led to the fact that there really was euphoria. and one more point i would like to say regarding the frozen conflict, this is very important in my opinion, i cannot rule out that today there are no forces in the west that do not want to freeze this conflict, why everything is very simple, as you and i saw the readiness, according to the statement of even the same, let

's say, the highest position. a person, a military official in the armed forces of germany, and they are not completely ready, that is, they also first of all need time to prepare their own armed forces and need time to satisfy the equipment we actually need, i have a question, who will they work for first , on us or on them, or? still solve the issue with freezing conflict, and this, i think, is the situation today not only in, for example, germany, the same situation can be in other countries, so, you understand, it is very difficult to say one hundred percent that they have concluded, because it sometimes seems to me that there are still many politicians in the west wearing rose-colored glasses.

thank you, mr. igor, and more. we have literally one and a half to two minutes before mr. andreas, i have a question, do you think there will be more scholz, how long will scholz's efforts last, maybe with macron or with the italians in they want to drink coffee to orban, but this latest case already opens the way for us to the eu, but all his words to his voters are that he will still have the opportunity to block ukraine's path to the eu. it's simple, well, i had to say something when i got home, literally a minute and a half, i'm asking you, yes, in principle , it will not be possible to block something there, he can still be such a spoiler, and well , there are certain barricades there for a while to create for ukraine, but now the main decision has already been made.