i think that you have raised several topics here , one of which, perhaps, seems to me to be more important than the others, is also the ability of the russian authorities to learn, both from experience and from mistakes, that is, in addition to the conclusions regarding yeltsin from 91 -th year, other conclusions were related to the fact that now national autonomies do not have any special ones. compared to other subjects of the russian federation, that is , a repetition of the collapse of the soviet union is constitutionally impossible within the same framework in the russian federation, well , the russians have been learning this for the last few years, that is, we we hear on the battlefield, we hear about it from our military, from commanders, and in this

sense, underestimating the enemy is absolutely absolutely, so to speak, the biggest mistake that we can make today. it seems to me that it is important not only not to overestimate, but also to understand correctly. and i have a rather serious conclusion that it is in ukraine that russians understand more than even in those countries that have never been part of a single state body together with russia. this confuses me, because it seems that the russians are not ready to understand russia, because they consider ukraine , because they consider it a continuation of the russian civilizational organism, and every time they encounter a different development of the situation, they think that these are some wrong ukrainians who simply need to be destroyed, everyone else is right, they do not draw any conclusions, it is simply believed that some people who are on the payroll of the department have been selected, or even are... supporters of some

nazi ideology, as vladimir putin says, and if ukraine is cleansed of all these people, then everyone else will be like that by the russians themselves, as all russians love the kremlin. in the same way, ukrainians believe that russians cannot be different, and every time i come across proof that everything is happening in russia completely differently than in ukraine, they simply fall into the intro. yes, i , i, i will repeat myself a little in one of the... interviews, but from the printed, not televised, uh, i once, just thinking about it, said that, uh, that ukraine is not russia , we know and we won it, but we are surprised to discover that russia is not ukraine, that is, we we are surprised by russia, because to a certain extent we also impose our way of thinking, our mentality on them, we would never...

never start this war, and we would never conduct it in the way that russia conducts it, says valery zaluzh , but i was surprised that russia did not stop the war, when such a large number of victims, yes, yes, yes, yes, and from this point of view, and here i will, so to speak, pull the blanket over myself already institutionally, in fact what we need in ukraine. this is a rethinking of russia, we need actually decent russian studios, because we, we, make the same mistakes that the russians make, who do not investigate us, do not study us, and we have the same situation, this may be an unpopular opinion, when the main trend now in ukraine is that, in fact , that it is necessary to cancel all-russian, but we need... about russia, without this, without

knowledge and awareness, not only our largest neighbor, the most aggressive and deadly neighbor, well, our future looks very doubtful, i want to support you, mr. serhiy, because i think that this idea of ​​canceling, so to speak, russia, that the trend of resentment and deep contempt, which is connected with russian victims on the territory of ukraine, however, if ukraine at all wants to survive as a sovereign state, well... more so, if ukrainians want to survive in their territories as a people, because this is also an open question in history, now that we see all the determination, and the long struggle, we should know russia better than the russians themselves, but we read the history of russia in the interpretation of the conditional karamzin there, in the interpretation of the conditional solovyov, now in the interpretation of the language, you wrote ukrainian history hrytsak wrote history,

his interpretation of the history of ukraine. we know that ukrainian civilization itself began there with the way hrushev saw the history of ukraine. then there was a famous textbook of subtelnoj, you can list it, list the ukrainian historians who wrote the history of ukraine, which is different from its russian version, question number one: which of the ukrainian historians wrote the history of russia? where is she? i think that this is an absolutely urgent, urgent task, i also thought about the example of the poles, from whom there is a lot to learn from, but they have such world recognition, the history of russia was created by richard pipes, an emigrant, a jewish emigrant from poland, interwar poland, the origin of the father, his origin

from lviv, from galicia, which, which became not one, but one of the most powerful and defined, and we have this task ahead of us. i remember the words in the mid -1930s of the then minister, or excuse me, people's commissar of foreign affairs litvinov, who wrote in a letter to a colleague that the event when talks about the soviet union, he doesn't understand anything, the poles understand, but they understand too well, so we have to find ourselves in the situation of the poles who understand russia too well, so well that it is uncomfortable for them. to this idea, well, here is an important point, if you mentioned richard pipes, i suddenly remembered one of his thesis about russia, a thesis that, by the way, he was able to write after being in the soviet union many times, he said that russians, according to his

conviction, very often lie simply out of love for art, lie for to lie, because lying itself is a part of life and a part of survival and... it seems to me that even here the russians are not very clear to the ukrainians, because if a ukrainian lies, he lies with a purpose, he has a goal, thanks to which he wants to hide or slander or misrepresent information and the russians can lie just like that, a person who has never lived in russia, i lived in russia, for many decades, i can confirm this thesis of pipes, she will never understand it, always when she is cursed, deceived, will look for a goal why... she was deceived, and she was deceived just like that, and this is the same mental difference that is important, and it is very important for me to understand how much ukrainians will realize how different these two civilizations, which have been together for so long, are really yes, that is, the question

, the question, i think, is also related to the empire and a certain form of empire, in which... well, let's say, we talk about byzantium, sometimes we talk about the east, where in fact the truth is surrounded by many, many lies, that is, uh, and it became, it became cultural code, pipes also very interestingly turned out to be surkov's favorite historian, because pipes, even in the 90s, when everyone admired the fact that today, tomorrow... russia will become fully democratic, pipes said, as a historian, that it was simply impossible, that historically, historical, so to speak, cultural dna and genotype is connected precisely with authoritarian power, and sorkov, who welcomed pipes in moscow

and showed russian translations of his books, said that he understood russia, because for surkov and for people around putin, it was also its legitimation. their authoritarian rule, but no matter how pipes was used, it is clear that he understood many things that his colleagues did not understand, and this understanding was connected, i would say, primarily with the experience of polish history, because on poles and eastern europeans were looked at as outsiders in the 90s, when they were knocking on nato's door and begging to let us in, and... well , they looked like some kind of urban lunatics, but today, today, we know quite, quite well, that they were right, and those who were not did, they were very, very wrong, i remember the words of zbigniew brzezynski at one of

the conferences devoted to nato and the expansion of nato, which was a controversial topic in the united states of america, he said then, it was about 10 years ago. he said that if had this not happened, today we would have discussions in the united states of america not about ukraine, but about poland. so here is this this this this experience ee. we still, we, we get it, we get it at a very heavy price, but it cannot be let go, and self-awareness, understanding of the enemy and and the way to the future, well, this is an important question, because if you talk to an average ukrainian about the further course of events, at least this year, you will definitely hear from many that russia will fall into several parts, by the way, i am talking about this.. . the president of the russian federation, vladimir putin, as one of the measures regarding russia just at the end

of the year, he mentioned it, because this is another conspiracy theory, i would say, the theory that the russians adhere to in order to justify their aggressive actions, and we adhere to it on the contrary, and that putin will die there, his regime will self-destruct, and everything will be fine, but there is another question, and are the ukrainians themselves ready for a multi-year one? neighborhood with a strong , aggressive, tough russia, which will be a part of this world of dictatorships, if you like, partners, or an equal partner, or rather a geopolitical neighborhood of china, or ukrainians understand what exactly with such a russia, which will be many times greater than ukraine and in demographic potential, and in economic opportunities, and possibly in military power, ukrainians will have to live, perhaps the most fundamental for our survival. states of the decade, and what are they ready to do so that this neighborhood does not lead to the disappearance of ukraine from the political map of the world?

this is the reality that you have to prepare for and adjust to, miracles happen, especially in authoritarian and personalistic regimes, because there biology, biology is the biggest and most important factor, but for a miracle... to take into account absolutely would be the biggest mistake, in fact, it would be suicidal, i.e. suicidal strategy and tactics, we, we have to learn to live in these, in these new conditions, of course, and to plan, to plan not only for the next, next month or next year, for the next decades, a strategy must be developed. tomorrow may indeed be a different beauty, there may be some, some extremely

serious changes in moscow, but we need a reality, which was actually understood by the same richard pipes, that authoritarian systems and aggressive systems, imperialist systems do not change overnight or overnight week. they change, but it's a very long process, which can take decades, and this is the strategy that must be developed in ukraine, regardless of who is in the kremlin today and whether this policy is actually genocidal in relation to ukraine, or whether a new yeltsin or navalny suddenly appears on a white horse, that is, we are dealing with a historical empire, with pe... codes of behavior and codes of culture, and all of them, all of them, these codes are aggressive, and threatening,

threatening to neighbors, this is the history of centuries. we certainly hope that one way or another we will become part of the event, we will part of nato, we will become members of the european union, and there are certain obvious developments about this, because negotiations on ukraine's accession may begin as early as next year. to the european union, many hopes for the washington nato summit, along with this, we heard this year from the president of the united states, joseph biden, when he met with the president of ukraine, volodymyr zelensky, that the condition for ukraine's accession to nato is ukraine's victory over russia, and this is important a moment that says that ukraine can remain between the west and russia, it is dangerous for us, but the question arises, how should we behave in a situation where the continuation of russian aggression in one way or another into ukraine for an indefinite period, in a gray

zone, what should we do in this gray zone? well , of course, i am convinced that ukraine's accession to nato will take place, i also cannot imagine a situation in which this accession will take place in the conditions of a war with russia. well, that is , these are realities. i also don't really understand the high hopes and then the disappointment, promise us this or promise us otherwise. because... well , a promise is a penny for a fool's joy, that is presidents change, politicians change , we had promises with the budapest protocol and the summit, that is, i do not understand why we should build real politics or at least informational politics on this, we are going to nato, we will not join nato formally until

this is over war. so, when this war will end, we do not know. and the model, the model should be, well, conventionally speaking, the model of israel, that is, very, very serious, or the same taiwan, that is, the continuation and deepening of relations with our allies, and what was interesting last year was that europe, which in the 22nd year was somewhere behind. the united states of america suddenly acquired its own subjectivity and precisely pro-ukrainian subjectivity, so that europe - this has become an even greater factor than it was in the 22nd year, this, this is our, this is the strategy that exists today, which must to develop, which must be deepened, and again,

this year we saw the harmfulness, the harmfulness of unjustified expectations and... how much they hit the moral status of society, how harmful they can be in war, and in this sense realism, realism is our savior, realism in relation to perspective, including when it comes to nato. and tell me, you mentioned the israeli model, but 2023 was just the year for... disappointment in the israeli model, mr. sergey, because by and large, everyone always believed that the state of israel is a state that can definitely guarantee its security for citizens, if it comes to, well, at least conflicts with terrorist organizations that control the lands of the palestinian authority, and what of this, which may one day appear, or may never

appear a palestinian state, there is some serious danger for the state of israel. rocket attacks, yes, there are some threats from terrorists, yes, there are some captures of military personnel, yes, but in fact the fact that the bandit organization hamas has not only transformed, but also has the ability to carry out such a raid on the territory of israel, and moreover enjoys obvious sympathy among broad intellectuals and social circles of the civilized world, where you seem to have mentioned your nazi past, no one could would even... at the end of the 22nd year, in the war as in the war, the allies are not canceling the status of the war as such, and the dangers of the risks that come with it, and israel is just one more , one more visual proof of that, but it's about the fact that none of the allies, the allies of israel, did not

withdraw from israel, we in ukraine began to talk about the fact that we are now standing in line... for the same military equipment, weapons and so on, for the united states of america, which are needed in the middle east behind israel, and this is exactly this strength these alliances are what i had in mind, but neighbors, neighbors, no alliances can cancel, and aggressive alliances, aggressive ... neighbors, terrorist neighbors and so on, that is, this remains, it remains in the longer term , it is about international support, and support is not only moral, that is, it is morally there in different places, as you said, but very practical, military economically, this is what

israel can achieve without nato, and i think that this. .. is for us an intermediate until when we are not yet let's join nato. you know, the war in the middle east unexpectedly revealed trends that the war in ukraine did not. this is, on the one hand, the bankruptcy of certain intellectual circles in the west, and this is not the first time that this has already happened, but it has now happened with all the obviousness, and in those american universities, which you know so well, there is now an obvious crisis of morality, and on the other hand, there is the so-called right march, the strengthening of right-wing tendencies. in western countries, primarily in europe, just as well, for many people who are now ready to vote for the right-wing parties, october 7 was the day when, as they themselves say, their eyes were opened and... it is obvious not only to the actions of the terrorists from hamas, but also to how the right-wing parties perceived the migrants in europe, and this seems to me , two very dangerous trends, which are yet

to be seen, how they will end for help to ukraine, and in general for stability on the european continent, and maybe in the united states as well. well, there are several, several factors that really change the world. one of them is migration, so from the conditionally third world to the first world, migration and refugees have become an extremely important factor that is changing the political, the political situation in europe, it is also changing the political situation in the united states of america, and a large number, a large number of these refugees are just from the middle east, are just potentially those who can... be are not, but can either be supporters of hamas, or or, that means, be enemies not only of israel, but simply

have, have against, anti-western, anti-western sentiments, this is one of the main topics in politics, world politics of the first world throughout the last, probably 10-15 years, and we now see, that is, very specific consequences in... a specific foreign policy crisis, another factor, we like to talk about it, but as a metaphor, about the information revolution, but the information revolution is just like the industrial revolution revolution, it comes with social changes, with political changes, with the emergence, the emergence of new parties, new ideologies, the information revolution is access, absolutely unlimited access to... means to the same twitter to to that is, there is no disappeared disappeared authorities, well, in addition to vitaliy to tiktok, mr.

sergey to tiktok, twitter is already some kind of classic book from the past, so, as a historian, i am lagging behind, but this is the world in which we are , a world in which he mobilizes and defines himself in fact. but the traditional elites , who have been controlling the discourse in one way or another for centuries, today find themselves in a situation where they can no longer do so, that is, the old world has not collapsed, but it is very seriously challenged, at least on this, on these two levels , which are new factors of the last 10-15 years, we still don't know how to learn, how to live in this world, we have to learn. well, then at the end, i will ask you what year 2024 will be, will it happen that at the end of the 23rd, you and

i will talk like this, i will tell you, mr. sergey, and we talked about this all at the end of 2023. you know, it's hard to predict, especially when you have to predict the future. but what i can say is that we are approaching some new, if not turning point, then a defining stage in this war. there were actually two such stages before that: the first was the end of february, the beginning in march, when ukraine and ukrainians decided that they would fight, no one denied it. also did not expect from a historical point of view, traditionally everyone was afraid of a large russian soviet army, from the czechs to

the poles, who were planning to leave behind the bridge and so on and so on, that is, historically ukraine broke the pattern, this was the first defining moment, the second came in april, when the americans, our western allies, decided that okay, maybe it's serious. that is, this country should be supported and supported not at the same level partisan war and struggle, and now we have reached the end of the 23rd and 24th years, and this is the time in the 24th year when this commitment is in english, that is, when the decision of the ukrainians to fight and the decision of the west to continue this support and support on... on a completely different level, it must, must take place again, reconsideration of this and an answer must be given, and depending on what kind of...

answer we will get from ukraine, what answer we will get from the west, the future of the war and possibly the end of the war will be decided also, so that the 24th year, even regardless of whether the line is moving or not and where it's going, in terms of decisions, it, it, it could be a decisive year, and it, it, it's what's more likely to happen and is happening in our minds. in the minds of our allies, and only over time can it then transform into the situation at the front. thank you, mr. sergey, i want to wish you not only a decisive, but also a victorious year. good luck. thank you.

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see this week in the judicial program. control with tetyana shustrova, renewal of the investigation into the attack on the espresso journalist in ternopil, he fought with me for my phone, and which of the unworthy judges has already been weeded out by the vkks? i don't know if any of us are sinless in this hall? congratulations, judicial control and i, tetyana shustrova, are on the air. reorganization and reformatting of judicial system bodies is underway in ukraine. after receiving the status of a candidate for joining the european union... judicial reform is one of the main ones requirements to continue our path to the eu. the higher qualification commission evaluates current judges for their suitability for positions. the servants of themis continue to amaze with wealth, which cannot be explained by income to professional incompetence. today we will tell you about those who have already been weeded out by the vkk. but first to the news. developments in the criminal investigation

of the attack. against our colleague in ternopil, the court upheld the complaint of journalist maria ivanovska, who was attacked in may of this year by a tenant of the judge of the northern commercial court of appeal, lyudmila nettle. complaint of ivanovska maria stepaniv of the written investigative department of the st. ternopil police group of the gnp of the nazarkevych region dated may 26, 2023 regarding the closure of criminal proceedings number 120 232 164 40557 dated may 8, 2023 under the criminal law procedures on thus, the judge canceled the decision of the investigator who closed the case regarding attack on the journalist, that is, the investigation of the criminal proceedings will be continued. resolution of the investigative investigative department of st. ternopil police groups gnp of the nazarkevych region dated may 26, 2023 on the closure of criminal proceedings number 120-232 164 400 557 dated may 8, 2023

for reference. provisions of the first part of article 171.