ukraine above all! greetings to all espresso viewers. thank you for being with us. thank you for the opportunity to be with you. my name is khrystyna yatskiv. and on the eve of one of the biggest christian holidays - christmas, we have the great honor to be here and have the opportunity to talk with the father and head of the ukrainian greek catholic church, his beatitude svyatoslav shevchuk. greetings everyone, christ is born. let's praise him. well, it's your holiday, you and i finally have an opportunity to... talk about major

christian holidays and not feel temporary gap as much as it was before, so with the difference in calendars, in dates and different readings. the majority of christians in ukraine are finally united now in one date, in one flow, love, i hope, is this our great achievement, not only church, maybe even national, that we were able to reach this point? what possible steps do we still need to take in this direction? well, christmas is really special this year, why? because we witness it together, together not only orthodox, catholics, greek catholics, but also and fellow protestants, together as believers in ukrainian society, and also together with the whole world, it is so important for us to feel. unity,

unity and solidarity among themselves, in particular in such difficult circumstances of war. i can honestly say that this decision was very special, i think, both on the part of our orthodox brothers and our synod of bishops. somewhere we felt that the moment had come, so theologically we call it kairos, this wave that the lord god gave us, we were waiting for it, maybe... for centuries, our people, our predecessors, we also felt that if we or six months sooner, it would have been too soon, uh, if six months later, it would have been too late, we did it very, very timely, and really, we really wanted to feel how our people would react, our believers... be in

in ukraine, in particular, uh, you know what the reaction was of unity, of great joy, uh, of all our parishes, only one parish in ukraine asked for permission to stay on the old calendar for a while longer, and this is one of our communities in the kharkiv region, ugh , and so the whole church perceived it as something very natural, and for which our people are grateful to its church... leaders who dared to undertake this reform. that's why we thank god, we have christmas, christmas together, christmas, which is a sign of solidarity, the internal unity of the ukrainian people, and a sign of the unity of the whole world, together with us, us with the whole world. but we cannot lose sight of the christians in ukraine, who for various reasons, i would like. to emphasize that still

remain faithful to the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate, the russian orthodox church, and we have with understanding to relate to people who, again, have different motives for staying, and this is not always love for the russian federation, this is still not an understanding of moments of canonicity. for example, the orthodox church of ukraine, how so fast , tomos, it was recently, here is a century -long history, some simply find it difficult to accept new circumstances and go against the grain, but at the same time, as we in our country, which is now very polarized, in the political sense, in the social sense, we see that two years of war are happening, it's just difficult, and people... feel it very often

this anger is already beginning to be splashed on each other somewhere more than necessary, like all these processes. but to survive and accept, to wait for those christians who are still somewhere in their thoughts, well, maybe i will start with the first accent, which, which you mentioned, really war is a tragedy, and it marks all of us with a deep trauma, maybe until the end we have not yet realized what features in... our personal life, the life of our society are marked by this reality. we all feel growing pains. the first reaction to the crimes of the russian aggressor are hatred.

how to deal with those feelings? we have been thinking about it, we have been talking about it since the beginning of this war, but we see that... the problems are deepening, and today, every priest who tries to build the unity of his parish, i think, our public leaders, political figures who sense certain trends society, feel new lines of tension that are being built, which are not related to whether a person lives in a russian-speaking region of ukraine or a ukrainian-speaking one, whether they are orthodox or catholics, new lines tensions are built on the basis of personal experience, the tragedy of war. here we see

it, let's say, uh, someone stayed in place, yes, someone left, like an internally displaced person, then returns back, and neighbors... already do not understand each other, a man went to fight at the front, returns home, well, he and his wife have different experiences of the tragedy of war, and sometimes a man and a woman do not understand each other, those who survived the occupation and liberation, sometimes i feel that those people who live relatively... peacefully, in the western region of ukraine, they do not hear, do not feel that there is a war. in such circumstances, how can we still build unity, the unity of our people, how to unite in the name of a common goal. this is such a rather difficult

question, we must answer it together. but we already see it from such a pastoral side. one phenomenon that should make us think very seriously, sometimes we look for such a, you know, scapegoat on which to hang our own pain, and sometimes we choose it very spontaneously, yes, it can to be, well, someone standing next to whom you can just pour out your negative emotions, it could be some uh... i don't know, a person or an institution that didn't do everything that we expected of it, or the way we thought imagined that she should do this, obviously, this is a very dangerous phenomenon, it is, on the one hand, natural, because this pain, well, it hurts us, we

want to spontaneously pour it out on someone, so it is very dangerous, you know, to succumb to temptation, devour each other, ugh. to succumb to the temptation and project this energy of our negativity, even sometimes the violence of ourselves, we shouldn't do that, but all together we should understand that the trauma of war is a certain challenge that we have to deal with, but there are many who are engaged in anal. social processes, even deep analysts, psychotherapists say that our success, our victory depends not only on the strength of our weapons, but on the ability of ukrainians to cope with the consequences of the trauma

that the war inflicts on all of us. therefore , it is difficult to overestimate the role of the church, the role of those who try... to be the core of the consolidation of our society, because from our internal our future depends on the ability to withstand these... challenges, thank you, it may seem strange to some that i am asking the head of the head of the ukrainian greek catholic church about the orthodox, about their relationship to the orthodox church of ukraine and about all these transitions, but i would really like , so that in our minds and in our ukrainian realities, christian churches are real. really brothers to each other and so that we can openly talk about each other's processes,

share experiences, especially since the ukrainian greek-catholic church, it is very, very modern, and i am very grateful to you for this work , which is carried out every day, the understanding that the world does not stand still, and you are also ready to develop together with the world, it is incredible, this is just what people asked to convey, to be honest, but giving back. .. after all, before the processes of 2023, we saw the work of the verkhovna rada to try to root out the russian agency in ukraine, which is very often covered by religion, and we have taken the first steps in this direction. we will see how it will be in practice, because we understand that the processes there are not easy. we have some actions on the big one christian shrine. kyiv-pechersk lavra, and we hope that very soon every ukrainian will feel a sincere

desire to come there and not feel a russian-minded spirit, excuse me, but i am interested in the issue of the pochaiv lavra, for example, we understand the experience of this shrine and the ukrainian greek-catholic churches, a certain historical duration, how do you consider... all these processes and do you hope that they will affect not only kyiv, but also holy places in the west? i think we are witnessing very interesting processes, thank you very much for the compliment about modernity, i had to do it, i think that we should not be afraid of renewal, because the church is a living organism, it is not some ossified institution that simply clings to the stereotypes of the past, such a church will always be doomed. in certain crises, if the church feels itself to be the leader of public

opinion, the mother and teacher of its people, the soul of this people who are fighting for their freedom, it will always be modern, the eternal will always be modernized, enter, be embodied in our present, but we have a very interesting historical moment that does not we can lose: in ukraine , the process of decommunization and de-russification is taking place in various aspects of our life, i think that the same process of decommunization and de-russification should also go through the religious environment of ukraine. we must be sincere, we must be frank that the russian orthodox church. was and, unfortunately, today remains an instrument

of the enslavement of peoples, an instrument not only of russification, but of planting certain stereotypes or archetypes of social behavior that were created in communist times. we know that even the name is russian of the orthodox church was given to that... church by stalin, who tried to use religion as a tool not for religious, but for atheistic enslavement, not only of his own citizens, but also of influence on the international arena. this church was the instrument of the destruction of the ukrainian greek catholic church, and all our efforts began. a serious dialogue in order to heal the wounds of the past and give this church an opportunity

to change itself, well, they did not achieve the desired success, and today society makes a demand before these rudiments of the soviet and of russian imperialism, to ask ourselves very deep questions, that is why it is natural. that ukrainian society requires de-russification and decommunization, even from the orthodox environment, which, unfortunately, unfortunately, carries... this negative baggage is possible on itself, therefore it is so important that the ukrainian state finally remembers that the kiev-pechersk lavra , and the pochaiv lavra is state property, that these are monuments, spiritual shrines that do not belong to any particular denominations, but they are the shrines

of the entire ukrainian people, and we are all for them... should take responsibility. so, even when i listen, you know, how our people's deputies outline their legislative intentions regarding churches, and when we hear that there is talk of banning a certain church, i am very careful about it , because our church was banned at one time. and it is impossible to ban the church. i would approach this process. seam on the positive side, our ukrainian government should help the church to get rid of the russian imperial influence, that is, de facto today the process of liberation of the ukrainian of the orthodox church, yes, and the orthodox

church of ukraine, from that russian baggage. it is interesting, our brothers. with the orthodox church of ukraine, they experience it in their own way, having the support of the ecumenical patriarchate. well, unfortunately, unfortunately, there is a part of the religious environment that is today the carrier of further influences of our northern neighbor, and today they too must go through this process of de-russification and decommunization. it's not easy. it's a painful process, uh, because, you see, it's not enough to simply disassociate yourself legally or canonically from some center of influence that today it is in the state of the aggressor, because this type of detachment has many other aspects, the church is the heart of a certain

cultural environment, here is the church. its life not only with songs, rites, traditions, even its theological constitution, it reflects a certain tradition of a certain society and a certain people. that 's why the de-russification of church life from the cultural, spiritual, canonical, even, even liturgical side, is such a rather, quite, uh... uh, complicated process. at one time, our church was under such conditions intensive influence of the latin church. we had a process of latinization, later restoration of our eastern identity. that is, we had experience and have experience in how to truly

return to the sources of kyiv christianity. and we would like to share this experience with ours. orthodox brothers, i hope that one day we will all have our place for prayer, even in the kyiv-pechersk lavra, in st. sophia and the pochaiv lavra, because we are not talking about property, it is not about us owning any property, no, it is about a certain spiritual space, space of unity, space of brotherhood , space... of real communication with god and with our brothers and sisters, and what about pope francis and ukrainian society, which again, let me remind you, in the second year of the war, is very sensitive, and sometimes it seems ,

no matter who looks at it, no matter what anyone says, all this will be perceived, well, very sharply, but... how the ukrainian greek catholic church reacted to all the informational reasons that were related to pope francis, everything that happened in society, let's say, in political ones environments, in journalistic environments, i know about it, if you can share how it was and if something has changed, maybe? our church is a part of ukrainian. and we all react in the same way. yes, you are sure, because there were very sharp reactions when something hurts us. when we don't understand something, we spontaneously react all together and all in the same way, this also falls a little on

the lines of tension that i already mentioned, we sometimes don't understand how the world can evaluate what is happening in ukraine in a different way? we sometimes say that various international institutions do not fully understand us, because they react late. sometimes help comes to us late, we constantly need to explain our pain, our needs, our vision of this unjust war, and this is something that happens at different levels, diplomatic level, also at the church level, and therefore we had the feeling that sometimes , well , holy father, the apostolic church does not fully understand us. ugh. and, er, our church has, er, its own paradigm of relations with the apostolic capital, institutional relations. and obviously

that we were the voice of ukrainian society in that direction. we felt that it is our duty to be the voice not only of the faithful catholics of ukraine, but also of the ailing ukrainian people, and here it is important to realize some very important points, because it will save us a little emotion and help us a little better to understand how we can convey the truth about what hurts us, how we need help and support from various international, including church institutions, when they talk about... the holier-than-thou father, the pope of rome, about the apostolic capital, in the face of any conflicts and wars in the world, er, this ecclesiastical

institution, the personality of the father, always takes a neutral position, tries to be above the conflict, and this causes us. today , disappointment, misunderstanding, how can one be neutral when a criminal kills an innocent victim, such neutrality is connected with a thousand-year-old tradition, a certain role, a certain service of the successor of the apostle peter in the universal. to the church, er, ministry that gave birth to european diplomacy. the holier the father, the roman see, even in the first

millennium, was the highest arbiter of christendom. there is such an old phrase: "roma lukuta, kausa finita." rome has spoken, the matter is over. it was the last instance of appeal when there were. various conflicts, disputes, misunderstandings, both at the church and at the international level. therefore, this arbitrator, in order to remain an arbitrator, he tried to be impartial, and then he was always the highest platform, a bridge to serve peace, prevent conflicts, and indeed. well, that conflict , that unjust war, which we are experiencing today , put this type of institution in crisis, and caused us very deep questions, we

asked ourselves, well, explain what this neutrality consists of, what this diplomatic mission of the holy father today consists of, and in such a dialogue we understood: it was a very interesting, i would say, history, perhaps, of the development of even this diplomatic philosophy. there are two types of neutrality. there is diplomatic neutrality, which consists in having an opportunity to maintain relations and dialogue with both parties that are fighting each other today. and the second. and the second kind of neutrality is moral neutrality, here the vatican, the apostle, are not neutral when it comes to moral.

price of this tragedy, when it comes to who should be helped and who should be saved, here we feel that the holy father and the apostolic capital are completely on the side of ukraine. and here is the latest development of events, in particular, in september of this year, we were at the peak of this media crisis, which was connected with certain. by the sayings of the holy father, said to the catholics of russia, well, this outraged not only ukrainian society, but, uh, many other european countries, i know that even in lithuania, in poland, the papal nuncio was called in order to get certain clarifications, so, well at the peak of that conflict, all the bishops of our church from ukraine and from the whole

world came to rome. my annual synod, i am afraid to imagine how it all looked from my, you know, such a secular position, it was, it was somehow so, you know, very providential, because when we decided to call the synod bishops this year in rome, we had no idea what moment it would happen, a moment in building relations between ukraine and the apostolic capital. for me , as the head of the church, it was simply a salvation, because always the one who criticizes and complains the most was me, as a person, and maybe someone had the impression that, well, simply, that one person and always dissatisfied with something, you have such a reputation, yes, here, here,

a whole synod came. and even at the moment when it was supposed to start literally in a few weeks papal synod on synodality, i.e. on a new way of building relationships in the church, to move away from such a command-administrative way, more collegial, joint, and we asked for an audience with the pope, it is very interesting that the pope granted us. chav audience for one hour, and then moved it to an hour earlier. we de facto came to the pope for a meeting, when none of the vatican institutions were still working, at 7 o'clock in the morning, instead of one hour, we had the opportunity to communicate for two hours. at that time, as the head of the church, i was really very i am satisfied because i just presented our synod to the pope and gave him the opportunity. to each of

the bishops to stand up and speak, and our bishops spoke in ukrainian, english, portuguese, spanish in different languages, it is interesting that the pope corrected himself, well, to a certain extent, he made us understand that those statements of his were unsuccessful, and at the end , listening to the voice of the bishops about the pain of ukraine, he himself added, he said: you must be pained by one more thing, you must be doubting whose side the pope is on, i want to declare to you today, the pope is from you, that is, you see this moral neutrality was completely clarified, these possible doubts and... ours, was

a little bit, i would say, inhibited, but i say to him, father, very good, thank you, and now before us, let's demonstrate this is not an easy task , to return home and convince our people of this, our, our, our people, so you see, the dynamics are very interesting, but our voice is important, and it changes, changes the understanding. the world about what is happening in ukraine, as shevchenko said, so that the whole world would hear what was happening in ukraine, for what perished, for which the cossack glory became all over the world, and what is actually happening, i know several cases when ukrainian greek catholic priests, for example in berdyansk, became victims of the russian occupation.