evening, we are from ukraine, glory to ukraine, this is a verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. today we are talking about ukraine, the world, the war and our victory. today in the program. in fact, everything flew, a massive attack on ukraine, revenge. is the operation planned and what are the consequences of russian terror, should europe prepare, is russia really planning a large-scale war against nato? foreign policy results for ukraine, whether western aid will cover the budget deficit next year. about this and other things, continue for the next hour we are talking with diplomat and politician valery chaly. however, before starting. our long conversation with mr. chaly

, i suggest you watch the video of the consequences of the massive attack by the russian invaders on ukraine on december 29. 26 people have already died from the rashes rockets and shaheds, about 120 people have been injured , houses, shopping centers, kindergartens, schools have been destroyed, let's see, bunkering, what look at me, i'm running, i'm new to the shelter, i run in, it turns out to be in the bathroom, and i just have a mirror, how much a mirror flies away, that if it had been a minute, not even a minute, it was a second, i would probably have been cut all over, i felt a vibration, it rained down the escalator, i don't know what rained there , there was a lot of dust and it was very scary, there was a strong explosion.

there is no window, all the glass was broken everywhere, well, children, it was a very big shock, it was very scary. friends, for those who are currently

watching us on youtube and facebook, please like this video and also vote in our poll, today we ask you if russia is a war on europe, yes no, if you are sitting in front of youtube and watching youtube, please vote, everything is quite simple there, yes, no, or leave your comment, please under the video, if you are watching us on tv, take take your smartphone and vote if you think putin will go to war in europe, it means next, yes, it's 0800 211381, no, 08003 211382, all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will pick the results of this vote. i would like to introduce our guest today, he is a politician, diplomat, extraordinary plenipotentiary ambassador of ukraine to the united states. america in

2015-19 valery chaly. mr. valery, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our broadcast today. i congratulate you, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. today's massive attack by russia on ukraine, mr. ambassador, suggests that there is a major outcome for 2023, an outcome that sounds something like this, it is impossible to come to an agreement with putin. and there is no need to agree on anything, under any conditions, because you can only speak with russia in the language of strength, firstly, and russia in that form and at the same time the regime needs deputization, de-rasification , denazification, do you agree with this conclusion, the conclusion of the 23rd year, it is impossible to negotiate with putin under any circumstances, because he is... also a terrorist, well, i definitely

agree with you in part, that with putin in ukraine at any level, it is now prohibited by the relevant decision of the national council. of defense security, that the president of ukraine, and the president of ukraine is the head of this area, of foreign policy and the supreme commander-in-chief, that he simply does not have, well, the opportunity according to today's legal framework, to speak with putin, for which, by the way, there is constant hysteria in the kremlin, instead of trying to use it as an explanation that ukraine does not want to negotiate peace, no, it is about something else, with you... they want to negotiate, because it is simply with a war criminal it is no longer possible to agree, but if we talk about the situation that has developed, yes, this is evidence that they are continuing their line, this is a line, well, we know it, it is about not recognizing

the right to the existence of either the ukrainian state or the ukrainian people in such a quality, well, only as subordinated, only you, imagine, it has become... it is already known, they even dreamed that they would occupy a significant part of the territory of ukraine, including the capital, change the government to a puppet one and involve ukraine and human potential, as they write, for a further attack , in the direction of nato countries. such was the intention, not even to deprive ukraine, let's say, of the opportunity for development, but this attack... what we called terrorism, which is an attempt to hit civilian objects in order to intimidate, but in in principle, i agree with those who define total war, because it is precisely an element of total war, and it is totally different from what

they are trying to present to the world as some kind of special operation, total war is already a war between peoples, between nations, that is, when one country... wants to simply destroy another, create chaos inside another country and to reduce resistance, well, to influence the resistance, in this case the kremlin and russia, so that ukraine stops the resistance and surrenders to the occupier, in principle, this is a confirmation of this, and the fact that it was, by the way, most air attack for the entire time of the war with russia since 2014 . this confirms their concentration of efforts for the near term, i.e. they want to pressure western countries to make a decision not to supply ukraine with arms, not to supply aid, and

will bring russia's opportunity to obtain occupied ukrainian territories, precisely those that are currently occupied, plus. .. they still have opinions, well, they want ukraine to recognize, well, in fact, to put it briefly, the same conditions of that infamous neutrality treaty, which putin was handed over fortunately for putin, this is not yet a fully formed agreement, it is a project, but he constantly shocks him in front of all delegations that ukraine agreed in march of last year, march-april. on a lot of restrictions , neutrality, restrictions on the armed forces of ukraine , there were 80,000, and in my opinion, our delegation bargained for 120,000

. we are talking about some possibilities, i am talking about training without an exodus, that is, full vassalage, full control of moscow, i.e. such ukraine from the moscow's control over the puppet government , with effective control over the occupied territory, and not only the donetsk-luhansk region and the crimea, but also the entire south, and this suits them, so in principle, i think, they have shown that they are concentrating these resources for the coming months to achieve these goals , and the war is moving, it seems to me, well, not what is moving behind... the front, there are the main events, of course, on the fronts, but it is moving even more seriously into the confrontation of nations, and it must be understood forget it, there are no good russians , there are bad russians, there are russians who

have accepted these rules of the game, they live in russia, they financially support the war, these are all those who are on the territory of russia today, starting with the military, propagandists, they are all now part of our opposition. unfortunately, this is how putin brought all of russia against ukraine. and this is a new challenge, but this is evidence that they are reaching the final phase, by the way, there is already a reaction from joseph biden, the president of the united states of america, on the website of white house, a statement was made public by biden, what biden said in connection with the russian shelling of ukraine on the night of friday, december 29. he says that the shelling of the russian federation is a stark reminder to the world that after almost two years of this devastating war , putin's goal remains. unchanged, he seeks to destroy ukraine and subjugate its people, he must be stopped. he recalled

the assistance of the united states of america and allies, which helped to strengthen ukraine's air defense and called on congress to urgently adopt measures in the new year regarding the financing of ukraine, and added that the full-scale invasion of the russian federation into ukraine affects the entire nato bloc, security. of ukraine and the future of transatlantic relations. putin is not only trying to destroy ukraine, he is also threatening some of our nato members. when dictators and autocrats are allowed to run roughshod over europe, there's an increased risk that the united states will be directly involved , he says. so, taking into account this rather clear and understandable statement of biden. mr. valery, can we say that in 2023 year the world and our partners, first of all, did their best for ukraine and for ukraine

to have, if not an advantage, then at least some parity in the confrontation with russia? well, the short answer is no, and they made the most of it, the strategy they set for themselves. their strategy, if there are three such main positions, is the first: supporting ukraine in its self-defense against the aggressor, this is the un charter, and according to the un charter , the country has the right to defense until a collective un security council decision is made on according to the aggressor, due to the fact that russia vetoes ratbes, it means that there is no such decision, no embargo, for example, as a sanction, which should be an embargo on... a full embargo, the cessation of trade of all countries of the world, there is no such thing, so in this partly they act in accordance with

the un charter, aid to a country in a situation of self-defense. second, they did it, according to our bilateral commitments, if we talk about the united states, certain documents, well from each country we have certain documents as part of these commitments, as they understand, they do it and fast. weapons and thirdly, they did it in the context of their national interests , which you clearly quoted here, that if russia and putin do not stop here, then they will go further, without a doubt, they finally understood it, and there is already a lot of evidence for this, in in this context and our constant interaction, they did the maximum of those things that we agree on, but this is in the concept of regulating escalation, preventing the defeat of ukraine and

preventing the collapse of russia, this must also be said honestly, that is, they did not bet on defeat russia would never and in any way do that now, and this is the problem, they have to understand in the end that russia is even so wounded in... thrown out of the territory of ukraine, it will not change its regime, no matter what names are written there on the mausoleum , that is, it will continue until russia is either forced to change its approaches, or collapsed, that is, fragmented, well, there is the issue of nuclear weapons, i have an answer, by the way, i will say yes, an answer , maybe she's so spontaneous, i'll just be honest, i still like her

didn't do it in depth, but given the fact that they are afraid that nuclear weapons will be in the hands of terrorists somewhere, they thought it was decorated earlier, well, you disarmed and pressed ukraine, belarus, and kazakhstan at one time, we gave these nuclear weapons to moscow, yes, so that they are concentrated there in one place, and if you have such a need to move them somewhere, so that there is control. move to ukraine, we have technological capabilities, we have not only since soviet times, and now we can at least control, well, on the condition that... of course, russia will be defeated, we can control it, and when we become a member of nato, it will generally be under full control, that is, there are options, but there is no need to tell us some fables that there will be an escalation, it is already there, missiles that strategic bombers fly, missiles of the x-22 or x-101 type fly into

nato territory, that is, what, this is not an escalation, it's so simple... well, i don't know, games, i don't understand what other escalation can be, there will be no nuclear war, this situation has already been stopped, and there is china's agreement here, no one else has such a thing will allow to be done by russia, but there are not suicides there, they want to keep their power there, they want to stay in power at the expense of the war and murders of ukrainians in a system that is already late for its time, you understand what they are doing, they want to do it. .. to adjust the world and the system, and not to come down and develop the country in the same russia, that is why i think this language is so very strict must be stop, it is translated correctly, well, in the statement, what you quoted the us president must be stopped , but in english it sounds much harsher: must be stopped - it means that

action is needed, it should not just be stopped in theory, but... action is needed. the british provided 200 anti-aircraft missiles immediately after this largest air attack. americans must do what we expect them to do. 61.4 package. and at the end of the phrase, it looks twofold. he who is against giving aid in congress is against liberty. and the white house can take steps independently without this congress. which would show determination, i think the ball is actually in joseph biden's court, he has mechanisms in order not to just wait, to put pressure on congress, he can take some steps, i know which ones, these can be concessions, of course, you can lose in the rating, but if such

a statement is made, let's expect him to take it himself for decisive steps in january, which... will completely change the paradigm of our current confrontation, and what you are asking me, these mistakes will not be repeated again in the 24th year, well, it may play into the hands of the rating, to increase the rating biden, if successful, if successful, yes, that's why that if he says that putin is ready to go to europe and says that the american military will be there in the event of a russian attack on the north atlantic... alliance on the countries of the north atlantic alliance, then in principle, whether or not this can be his main argument during the election campaign, because it is clear that he has already started helping ukraine, he has done a lot and obviously he has to go only upward in this history, because this history is the history of the united states

of america led by joseph biden, right? yes? yes, it's true, really, he's already a politician who... has already received everything in this life, i mean positions, some kind of recognition, that is , he's the president of the united states, the most influential country in the world, and we know his personal experience, a difficult fate, but i think that a person should be ready not for those decisions that the advisers of the election campaign suggest to him now, but for those decisions that are historical, indeed joseph biden very much... announced his own political capital in our joint actions, and he doesn't have to stop, i think i really hope that the national security strategies will now convince or defeat this group of purely political political technologists, and here is another point, in principle

, they wanted to sell the idea that no nato country was harmed. we have euro-atlantic cooperation or partnership and the us is at the head of this alliance, but you see that as soon as ukraine is in a, let's say, in a difficult situation, and russia increases these opportunities at the expense of iran, at the expense of north korea, by the account of china's political and tacit assistance, here it turns out that only eh... ukraine still has to be honest, it is, it is a war in europe, it is a war in europe that undermines national security, including the united states, because the usa is... and a nato ally of european countries, that is , in order to guarantee the slogan they are talking about, that nato will be protected, including all nato countries, i am sure,

the strategy must be changed, it must now in the coming months to maximally strengthen the fight against the aggression of ukraine well, if they want, and they want to keep it on the territory of ukraine, then we need to provide several hundred missiles, at least... we need to provide several fighter squadrons at once, without stretching it for a year, we need to invest completely different resources in defense, and then we we can achieve success together, that is, it cannot be like this here, we will wait for a de-escalation, a pause in the war, and ukraine will achieve these goals on its own, this does not happen, here the americans need to put in all their efforts, so that, well, let's put it this way, for now, without the participation of their troops, they have to do everything else. that is, we have already, you see, the australians are giving us an aircraft that can organize, well, the work of the f-16 platform. and they show by their actions that

they want to do it. i would like, you know, to hear more from the germans, who have recently, well , changed a lot in their approach over the past year. this, by the way, is a vivid example of how politics can change in the right direction. i would like to hear something from chancellor nie scholz right now. the attack is the biggest, they killed so many civilians, the biggest air attack, the statement of the us president, that is, the time has come to provide taurus missiles, the time has come to provide these missiles, it will be the political leadership of chancellor scholz, not that he will be pressured by the opposition, well , the cdu, the csu, let's already time to provide the missiles, initiate, and the minister of defense pistorius should also be called to show leadership, that is, he is something there he told me that these... are not so important , they will not cause a fracture, so give them at least a hundred, we will see what it will do, what fracture will or will not be, january will show all

this, unfortunately, not the end of the year, december , and there under the christmas tree, it won't happen, and there we are we are all looking for ourselves, we all know what we want, but in january it will all manifest itself, by the end of january, the beginning of february it will become clear exactly what will happen from... you, mr. valery, have already mentioned the lightning-fast reaction of great britain to the shelling of ukraine , massive shelling of ukraine by the russian federation, at a briefing, or rather, not at a briefing, the british defense minister grand sheps announced on twitter that hundreds of british-made anti-aircraft missiles are being sent to ukraine to protect against russian aggression and great britain. quickly moves along strengthening ukraine's air defenses after putin's murderous airstrikes , hundreds of anti-aircraft missiles to provide ukraine with everything it needs

to defend itself against barbaric bombing. well, this post concludes with the phrase grand shabs, glory to ukraine. and one more event that happened today, or rather, part of this night event and morning event. which is connected with the massive shelling of ukraine - this is a missile, a russian missile, which flew 40 km deep into poland, and andrzej duda held a meeting today with the military, with the military leadership of the state regarding the violation airspace, as the spokesman of the operational command of the polish armed forces , jacyk horyszewski, says, he says that in order to ensure our security. airspace, the combat readiness of our air defense equipment, as well as regular pairs of fighters, has been increased. it is currently known that the airspace of poland

was violated in the morning hours, the operational command carried out all procedures and all persons who should be informed are aware of this fact. nato is monitoring this situation. stoltenberg said he spoke with ange i think about the missile incident in poland. so you talked about the fact that... the north atlantic alliance cannot understand that what happens periodically with the flight of russian missiles into the territory of poland and russian missiles into the territory of romania, the countries that are part of the north atlantic alliance, is actually there is a war with the russian federation, that is, if they didn't even destroy anything there and that rocket turned around and returned, as they say, to the ukrainian state. but a provocation by russia is also a war, right? well, i'll say three positions: first, i do not want to interfere in

internal affairs. our partner's poland, but i can predict that heads will fly there, because here are all the conversations, we reported there, we said, when they fly 40 km deep into your territory, a mach 4.5 missile flies, well , if the kh-22, or well slower than the kh-101, but everything is the same, first of all, they did not recognize the target, this is already the first failure, they may have thought that it was a plane, then they do not know what kind of missile it is, that is, it is possible. wait until you fly to warsaw, to the diet, or to the presidential office palace, well, what kind of conversations are these, that is, this is not the first time, and according to all the rules and statutes of actions , such targets must be shot down, obviously, because you can figure it out for a long time, and then you simply cannot explain to your people why this happened, therefore, it is important here that the violated nato space is clearly violated, by the way

, poland has admitted, i think that poland has already turned to brussels, and it will be right on its part, because this is a threat to national security , poland is obvious, first of all , it will be necessary to raise the question of the application of the fourth articles of the washington treaty of nato, which , this is not the fifth defense, but consultation and discussion of this situation, on my part, i think it will be right if we, together with poland, offer poland to initiate an emergency meeting of the council of ukraine. on nato, that is, and to discuss such things , it should have been done a long time ago, to discuss how we act in such situations, that is, what is happening, russian attacks are happening on the border , not only on the territory of ukraine, on the border with nato countries. so, some action must be taken. i think it is necessary to discuss the joint work of air defense systems, or joint work, well, actually there are, for example, border, joint points, there is

such a thing, that is, it is not about sovereigns. countries , why can't there be common air defense points, wherever they are located, that is, the idea is that the poles can shoot down these objects, as they say, nlu, an unidentified lethal object, yes, that is, that they these objects, until their citizens felt like shooting them down, if they fall on the territory of ukraine, then we should have such agreements with them, and respectively, and our... territories of poland, because it is over the border, so that we have to react to it, up to the point of, well, in terms of information, to explain the situation every time, but there have already been such situations with russian violations of airspace, nato countries, but here it is more serious when it is above you, well, come on, if it is not yet confirmed that it is the kh-22, well, it is a five-ton flying thing, and it has not only a ton

of explosives, but, by the way, it is adapted there was for the attack of aircraft carriers with nuclear weapons, it still has 4 tons of toxic material fuel, oxidizer somewhere there, i don’t know, a ton of nitrogen oxidizer, that is, as a result , well, this is a serious matter, how to discuss it, let’s talk on a bilateral level, i would suggest holding a joint meeting of the red security forces, the polish security bureau and the council of... national security and defense of ukraine , so that not only politicians and military personnel are present , but the whole spectrum, there is also a need for ministers who are involved in other issues, that is, this issue is ripe, overripe, it will be, you understand, if the russians, there are two options, if they provoked nato, then nato has already lost without a reaction, already lost, a sluggish reaction, if it is

accidental, well, this is such a story, an accident... that is, then, and without explanations, without official, public apologies , then this is also , this is not just a provocation, this is a concrete action of one russia against poland, against nato, and the russians, as soon as there is no answer now, they will go further, they will launch further 100 km deep, and it will be a shame, no only to the poles, unfortunately, but to the entire nato, because they are so toothless and they are so tolerant until... it flies , excuse me, into your mother's or your father's yard, that's why all the maneuvers, they will end someday, and the time has come, i guess, to thank jens stolton for his great contribution and work, because the time calls for a different leadership, a secretary general, not a technical figure who will simply voice nato's common position. yes, there are many limitations, but in such conditions of war, you have to be much more prompt, more courageous in order to

introduce leadership. therefore, he does not cling to this cross.