the 24th year, which i am reminding you, has not yet been approved, and the military budget, which was approved only at the end of the year, and the proposal of the president of the united states for aid to ukraine, israel and taiwan, all this would be. and yes, we faced this turbulence, just before the decision to allocate us this 60th would be approved. one, it seems like a billion dollars, by and large, how should it be , we should get this 61 billion, and then the turbulence would begin, well, that’s ideal, yes, and it should be like that, that’s how white planned home, and what would happen in 2025, no one knows at all, because there everything would still depend on the result of the election for the president of the united states, in fact, what this result will be, no one knows today, america is such a country, we are now looking ratings, here... trump won the presidential election with

a million votes, it seems to me like a gap, if not more, but with a huge gap and what? the counting system is different, you need to see what the mood will be in difficult states, just at the moment of voting, and no one can do that predict, i remember watching these states just when the race was on... clinton, trump, and on the one hand, clinton's results kept going up and states kept being lost, and all the ska, you see how it is maybe because trump understood how they should conduct the election campaign, he generally worked only in these states, and clinton did not pay such obvious attention to them, and now everyone understands this for sure, and the same applies to the 2024 election, how the election campaign will be built, what the american economy will look like, c in any case, for me there is pe'. the positive

thing is not only that they are now looking for various alternative points related to aid to ukraine, but also that in the united states itself, the political elite is still looking for results, that they were ready to continue, at least the senate in the days before christmas and all that to discuss that they were looking for some compromises related to the border and everything else, and it seems to me that one way or another we have some hopes that this issue will be in... to put it mildly, very diplomatically, but if we talk about political, political changes, movements, in general , political life is a little closer here in europe, well, we understand that in a number of european countries governments have changed, approaches have changed, parties that are ultimately in power have changed. and this is extremely important absolutely

everywhere, what is the main trend you would notice here? well, here, in fact , there is no obvious common trend, because the elections look enough and the prospects for the elections look too diverse to be able to talk about trends, on the one hand we can talk about the obvious right trend, uh, but when we talk about... an obvious right-wing trend, we're primarily referring to what happened in the netherlands. victory in the freedom party of geert wilders. but khrystyna, a triumph in the party of freedom, not italy, a little earlier. yes, italy is a little earlier, that's true, but in any case , italy is a complex multi-party coalition, in which the party of the right-wing electorate simply came out on top. prime minister

giorgi meleni, brothers of italy, just for the simple reason that other right-wing parties have already tired their voters, then mine, i would said, with his, i would say, involvement and corruption, you can't vote for the late silvio berlusconi all your life, seriously, but by and large the right-wing electorate in italy by the number of votes cast by voters, it has remained quite stable, just berlusconi's party and party... matteo salvini's league, they turned out to be outsiders in the right camp compared to the brothers of italy, it is not known how it will be next time, but the very tendency that some people vote for the right, others vote for the left is traditional history for italy, such a right -wing party as the christian democratic party of the previous republic simply does not exist, but this party has always been the leading party, there has always been a real competition in italy, so that we do not talk about it for a long time. between the christian democratic

party on the one hand, and the communist party of italy on the other, it was the second political force in the country, and by and large only the joint efforts of the vatican and the mafia made this party successful. we understand, this split was always there, it remained, all that just left, and here i do not see, for italy this is a standard situation, because imagine if salvini won, not meloni, well, the league party won, it was always the strongest, we would not see any serious changes, for the big ... on the account, well, because now the right has defeated the democratic party, the next election may bring victory to the centrists, it's not even about that, it's about, why did i mention geert wilders, because here is this success of the freedom party, which took place in two week, it

is largely caused by events on in the middle east, and everyone knows it, and if there were no events in the middle east, in the middle east, relatively speaking, so that hamas would not cut the throats of women and children, would not rape, would not... commit atrocities there in israeli kibbutzim, hertawilders' party in in the netherlands , it would have received the place it should have taken according to the results of previous sociological polls, fifth-sixth there, so again , on the one hand, there is an obvious trend of strengthening the far-right forces, so this is an alternative for germany, it was also to hamas, she grew in ratings, these are the swedish democrats who have no... positions in sweden, this is the strengthening of right-wing, far-right forces, true finns in finland, this trend can be continued, it is on the one hand, on the other hand, slovak, it is also, to things are a good example, these are right-wing parties, obviously, on the other hand, there is

a victory of the democratic coalition in poland, the party of law and justice cannot be called the far-right, it is just a classic right-wing, right-wing force, but... but the far-right confederation suffered a serious defeat , she did not enhance her capabilities, spain, where many believed that the right-wing would definitely come to power, but they associated with it not even so much a triumph in the traditional right, that they would be able to form a coalition with the far-right fox party, this did not happen, the foc suffered a serious defeats in the elections, precisely this party, the people's party and spain. won, everything happened as planned, she won the first place in the elections, as, by the way, the party of law and justice won the first place in the elections, these right-wing parties won the elections, but they did not have enough votes to to form a government both in spain, and in poland, and in spain, the democratic left-wing

coalition in power led by prime minister pedro sánchez, and in poland, the center-left coalition in power, led by donald tusk, that is... but law and justice , in fact, and the people's party in spain were hoping for the success of the far-right, as you said, you see the trend, the far-right are gaining votes and we will be able to rule together with them, this did not happen, now let's see what will happen next year let's say it will be in austria, where it is like that again the austrian freedom party is now the leader in the pre-election sympathies, but to what extent it will manage to not only be the leader, but to form the government, we will see, because we don't even... we don't see anything like that, we see the party that won, like, before things, the popular party in spain, as the party of law and justice, poland, but here the question arises as to how far it is possible to create a coalition, because we always find ourselves during these trends in a situation where the party that

wins, it cannot create a coalition, because it turns out to be political isolated, right-wing parties in their efforts to gain power are trying... to fight for the electorate of the far-right, to please them, as a result they will destroy the chances of the far-right and they themselves have no possibility to come to an agreement with other political forces, so look, labor, law and justice, if it she didn’t behave like that all the time, recently , i would say, it was obvious for polish-ukrainian relations as well, she would definitely have several coalition partners close to her, with whom she could easily form a government, let’s say a polish peasant the party is close to it in terms of ideology, but simply these parties behave in such a way when they are in power, that then everyone else says, we will not be your partners, we will, conditionally speaking, negotiate at least with the devil from our side, with from our point of view, but not with you , because you're arrogant, because you're arrogant, because you're bastards, you monopolize everything, you destroy everything, law and

justice had to go through it, popular parties in spain had to go through it, because it turned out that she had every opportunity to... form a coalition with various regional parties, but all the catalan tamba parties said: listen, your whole ideology is the fight against the so-called separatism, you don't want to negotiate with us, you want the police to act, instead of... looking for a political agreement with us, you call us separatists , take us to court, persecute our political leaders, well, sit in the opposition for another four years, what's the difference, agree with your neo-fascists that there are not enough votes, well, sit in the opposition, who needs you idiots, and this is the result collapse, and by the way, when i followed the referendum on the independence of catalonia, so -called, which was not legitimate at all. and i said that i am not thinking about what is happening with the independence of catalonia, because it is unlikely that it

will be independent in such a situation, but i am thinking about how the prime minister of spain at the time of the people's party asnar is destroying with his inability to dialogue, the chances of your own political party to ever be in power in the country, because these measures that he has implemented basically leave him no chance, you can turn a blind eye to the fact that that there are catalans, so you can turn a blind eye to the fact that there are veils o... to what is in the basque country, think that the police and the supreme court will deal with them, and then the parliamentary elections begin, and it turns out that without these political forces, in general theirs , well, there is no chance for you to be attracted to power, because then you simply give this power to the left forever, not because the left are generally capable of agreeing on some kind of catalan independence, they are not capable, but because simply everyone acts like this , to keep you in opposition for... punishment, even the catalan right parties, they don't want to do business with you because you're anti-catalan, because you're a castilian

chauvinist, a castilian chauvinist should sit under the bench, and what's happening now with this story, it reminds me a lot of the soviet union, you know, when they pushed , that then everything fell apart, in the end to pieces, that you know that after these parliamentary elections in spain , a decision was already implemented, again, so that this left. the government could refrain that it is now possible to speak castilian, catalan, basque in the spanish parliament, in galician languages, and when deputies from the right say, what the hell, well, we all know spanish here, castilian, that is , why can't we speak the same language in parliament, if you come to madrid, no one will interfere with you there in bilbao or in barcelona you can talk as you want, why here in madrid and colleagues say to them, put on headphones, please, we will answer you now. in the basque language, so you put on your headphones and listen, but all this could not be, that is, it could not

be, if there was a capacity for dialogue, and this well, when we're talking about trends, why am i talking about this in so much detail, the far right and the conservative right in general have no capacity for dialogue, and by the way, another trend that 's going to be next year is the collapse of the conservatives in the uk, uh, it is absolutely obvious that they have no chance of staying in power, that the solution is simple. led the funeral team formed by our beloved boris johnson, who in fact buried the conservative party of great britain, and it gives me great joy, because i believe that historical justice should work, what if you lie, what if you deceive people, what if you create opportunities for a vote that will lead your country to a dead end , then you have to... disappear from the political scene and i am very happy about boris johnson's fiasco, i hope that he

will never be a politician again, we are not in the ukrainian trend now, if anything , the ukrainian trend is not in the trend, of course, but i then just glad and i hope that there will be a punishment for to the conservative party of great britain, i am absolutely not interested in the ukrainian trend, i know one thing, if great britain would remain a member of the european union, we would not need viktor orban to leave the boardroom. during the vote for ukrainian european integration, you understand that, there was nothing to it, just that britain would have been so strong and serious that it could have been avoided, of course, if now orban, orban managed to convince giorgi meleni, who cannot his influence can be compared with the prime minister of great britain, show yourself, if there was just a prime minister of great britain who was a supporter of european integration, he would be, britain would be as... for once, military aid would be much greater from europe, the question financial

aid would be much more serious, but we are talking about how great britain helps us by itself, says: oh, how good, great britain has left the european union and can help us independently without all these agreements, well, of course, it's just geometric progression works in the other direction, it is not a very big country that can help us, taking into account the economic one as well. the situation in which it found itself as a result of brexit, if it were part of the european union, the european union would not help us with 50 billion dollars, but with 80, because it would be one of the flagships, it would be one of and in order for it? in order to keep hungary trending, but simply to tell viktor orbán how to give more money than putin, give more money than putin, and in order to get great britain, because prime minister of great britain, listen , you don't want to help ukraine, you are against the whole thing, and we will leave you altogether, go to the fig, well, and this immediately causes, you remember,

while great britain was blackmailing everyone by she will come out everyone was ready to fulfill any of their whims, and their whims were pro-ukrainian, and this is the fact that this year the last prime minister of the time when great britain was still a normal state from the european point of view was returned to the government of great britain, part of the european union, david cameron, and how everything has changed in terms of the pressure of great britain in foreign policy immediately, because david cameron , unlike those many politicians who came to power in the country as a result of brexit, this is immediately. it must be said that this is a change of political alliterations, immediately returned great britain to the foreign policy that we all remember, to the policy of cooperation with europe and pressure on europe, and the ability to talk with the americans accordingly, as part of this common space, and that everything was lost, so i understand that ukrainians are very pleased when someone comes

to kyiv, who is under siege, says beautiful... words, but before that this person does everything possible to cause the situation in which we are ended up because she could have realized it at the time, that lust for power, lack of political intuition, unprofessionalism, by and large you understand that when you leave the european union, you create in moscow the impression of the west's weakness, so by and large brexit , like trumpism, spawn putinism and inspiration for putinism. and it doesn't matter what boris johnson says after that, because the decisive step that led to the creation of this situation has been taken, it's a huge tragedy, well , there's nothing you can do, so to speak, we're just, these are just my emotional reflections, you know, but they are very valuable, the end, excuse me, the middle of december, and we have a very optimistic

decision for us, which starts the negotiations on our accession to the european union, the eu summit was successful. to this decision despite the position of individual european leaders, already mentioned orban and hungary , but let's not be enchanted, the path can actually be extremely long, and we will be on this path of negotiations and not only the implementation of agreements, perhaps even for decades, historical examples of this also exist, together with ukraine certain euro integration prospects were given to moldova, georgia, bosnia and herzegovina, bosnia and herzegovina may. well , each individual country is definitely different, but there is a step forward in the case of a trend and there is a signal, a political signal from of the european union, that they are ready to accept into their ranks countries that, some of them are very traumatized by the russian federation, but

simply because of territorial integrity or non-integrity, this is an important remark, because let's be completely frank. if it were not for russia's attack on ukraine, the european integration of ukraine, georgia, and moldova could have been discussed only after the process of european integration of the western balkan countries had ended, and i have always said this for years, by the way, that when we talk about our european integration, first the balkans, then perhaps the process of integration of the western balkans should end, which is not known when it will end. and then it will be possible to talk about the post-soviet space, and that in order for it to be different , something like this needs to happen, which i don't even want to think about now, because there are no objective prospects for it, and that's it, unfortunately, there was a war, a war that forced the west to look more seriously

towards the post-soviet space and the aspirations of those peoples who would like to be part of the european family. and this is first of all ukraine, georgia and moldova, and i will remind you that back when the eastern partnership initiative was being created, and the initiators, by the way, were the then minister of foreign affairs of sweden karl bilt and the then minister of foreign affairs of poland radyslaw sikortsky, who returned to his post in the new government of donald tuska, the idea was precisely that we would not get anywhere, something like a club of soviet republics is being created for us, in which we should sit and not run away, and even in... the association has not changed anything significantly from this point of view, and now rodoslav syukorskyi, together with his prime minister and president andrzejmdu, is one of the most active supporters of the european integration of ukraine. if you ask him why you needed the eastern partnership, he will say: to speed up the process of european integration of ukraine, i predicted everything, because this is how politicians always

predict everything, only johnson did not predict brexit in this aspect, well, okay, i do not predict , became the prime minister of great britain, would you like to become the prime minister of great britain? no, but that's another story it's strange, it's the first time i see a woman who doesn't want to be, you don't want to be a member of the verkhovna rada, but the prime minister of great britain if she became a member of the european parliament. we don't mind either, right? oh, but anyway, so in that regard, i have to say that it 's quite like that, no, i just thought that after margaret thatcher, every opportunity to show femininity and political ability, why not goldameyer, maybe it my collar, after all, is more elegant margaret techin, no, well, it's already a delicacy, you know, well, really, we have it another conversation, in any case, just become goal. mayor, you have to be, become a grandmother , buy yourself accordingly avosko, i just don’t see you like that, well, let me live to this moment, i have a goal to live to this moment,

in any case, if we are serious, then eh, this is also a huge step forward, the very fact that we are candidates for membership of the european union, so many countries have been candidates for many years, but they are still part of this space, these are joint meetings. are these summits with some countries outside, countries which will be in, this is money for the candidate countries, this is a change in legislation, this is a process, ugh, these are completely different opportunities from the point of view of economic and political cooperation there, and everyone just understands where the end is, by the way, this end will largely depend on us , because turkey basically stopped. to change its legislation, at some point, it stopped not the negotiations, but the process of european integration, because its new leadership, when recep and erdogan came to power, made a different, if

you will, geopolitical choice, not even on for the benefit of someone else, for the benefit of turkey , that is, for turkey to be an alternative power by itself, there is the west, there is the east and there is turkey, by the way, as it was during the ottoman empire, it was so, so it is... erdogan sees yes politics, no one said that one of his heirs will not return to the idea of ​​participation, it is difficult to say, but you know, an experiment is still needed, the european union still remains, if you will, such a fortress of christian civilizations. when albania and bosnia and herzegovina are eventually accepted into the european union, ugh. what will europe look like, then these will be the first states with a huge muslim population, not migrants, but

autochthonous inhabitants in both bosnia and albania, who will be part of the european family, and this may be to some extent an answer to the question, what will be with turkey in the future, as part of european integration, because for now we are only talking about it theoretically. also from the point of view of civilization, because it has not happened yet, but it just might happen, because of all the countries of the western balkans, it is albania that shows the fastest progress from in terms of reforms, i hope that this country, together with north macedonia, will quickly be able to overcome this path, but the important thing here is that this war has shown that these processes can develop in parallel, who would have thought that the federal chancellor of austria would be with ... to set conditions for ukraine and moldova to agree to negotiations, proposals for the start of negotiations for bosnia and herzegovina, in principle should not

have been the same, because everyone understood perfectly well that before this process in the balkans ends , will not start ukrainian and moldovan, but you are right that there are quite serious questions for the future, but this is a question for the future, what to do with the territorial integrity of ukraine, moldova and georgia, i also think about it all the time, that it is a very serious problem. let's take a short break, and in the second part of this conversation we will talk about expectations for 2024, and in general we will try somewhat ungratefully, as always , to predict what we should do and how we should live, the verdict with serhiy rudenko, from now on in a new two-hour format, even more analytics, more important topics, more top guests, foreign experts, inclusion from abroad, about ukraine. from the front , society, and also feedback, you can express your opinion on the evil of the day with the help of a telephone survey, turn on and turn on, the verdict with serhiy rudenko

that... everyday life from 20 to 22 at espresso.

we continue the saturday political club on the espresa tv channel, khrystyna yatskiv, vitaly portnikov, we continue to talk about the trends of 2023 and plans for the 24th, october 2023 marked

a new year. war in the middle east, it seems to me that it needs a little to stop, because it is a parallel war with what is happening on our territory, and it is a certain burden on the united states , as a country on which a lot depends, both in that and in the other case, i have often asked you, mr. vitaly, in our programs, is it possible to deploy such , you know, a textbook third world, as we imagine it, with nuclear winters, explosions, and so on, and you recently aptly emphasized that it is unlikely, rather, it will be a combination of such smaller conflicts, meat grinder and ours the task is not to be one of them, to do everything to stop being one of them, if we talk about the middle east and again about the global trends that are emerging, south america, maybe i don't know if we can say that we are already halfway, you know, to this kind of conflict in the world. i think

we're already there, you know, i've stood there so many times on the balcony overlooking old jerusalem, and i've always thought, looking at it all, how is it possible that i'll ever see this landscape already in to a peaceful, settled conflict, in a peaceful city in which it will be absolutely obvious that jews and arabs can live side by side and not perceive each other as enemies, as a danger, and this has been happening for decades, until the moment that i can now is to watch exclusively on television plasma, and i have always believed that the middle east conflict is just a textbook on how various forces can use dangerous trends to achieve their own results, uh, and you said a

parallel war. and it seems to me that it is not a completely accurate description, this is not a parallel war, it is a continuation of this war. i think i told you that in march 2022, i think i wrote a text to the israeli media in which i predicted this conflict, and precisely because i assumed that it would be a continuation of the ukrainian conflict, and i did not agree with those of my colleagues in israel, with experts and with politicians who... said that this is another war, and now in israel, by the way, they do not think that this is a parallel war, that is why the prime minister of israel binyamin is there netanyahu can afford a harsh tone in his conversations with vladimir putin, because everyone understands that this is the same conflict situation, and by and large.