like germany, france, italy, from different sides, where, accordingly, the political weight of each, each of the countries is stronger, that is why it was such a long process, every day we went to this decision, and the main emotions were that 100% was it is obvious that this decision should be adopted, that ukraine has fulfilled all obligations, legal and formal. political commitments, there is no doubt that this is the movement of the ukrainian people towards the european union, i.e. there was a 100% understanding that this is the inner, inner feeling of everyone ukrainian, and that's why there were very, very many, because refusing ukraine would have much more serious consequences than a positive decision. that's why it's hard now

to remember even our emotions until december 15, because it seems that this is some kind of dream, yes, but we realized that the long-term negative consequences of the fact that a decision will not be made are much more terrible than a positive result, but in the end, this awareness was shared by all eu countries, even those that speculated in a certain way, like austria, for example, which you mentioned. "they are not were against ukraine, they have their own interests that they defended, and in a way it gives a sense of a certain pride, because ukraine is a very strong card that allows other countries to solve their own issues along the way. the adviser to the prime minister of hungary, viktor orbán, said after this summit that in order for ukraine to join the eu, at least 70 more unanimous votes are needed, and

the leaders of the european union countries, i take this as a hint that we should always leave from the orban hall, or whoever will be there in the future will not be who the levers of influence on hungary now remain in the european union, and what is our strategy for working with this difficult country? i will not reveal all the details of the communication with the hungarian minister szijjártó on the eve of the eurocouncil, but in the wake of these... discussions , his phrase stuck in my memory, which i did not expect to hear from hungarians, and this is what you should understand , that you are great and strong, you are great and strong, and decisions about your membership, decisions about your future in general, cannot be made in the same way as for other countries, of course, he voiced it from the point of view of his own beliefs there. on behalf of the hungarian

government, but we ukrainians have heard our opinion, and indeed we are ready for negotiations, we are ready for all formal procedures, we are informed, i think that the position of prime minister orbán was very short-sighted to announce that they will use blocking tools negotiations, because we now know about it and... we are also preparing for it, because we are big and strong, we understand what we are doing, i want to emphasize this, because it is very is highly valued in europe and for some reason is not much, much underestimated in our country, we have an absolutely capable state, and in two years of almost war, as well as in parallel , we transformed the state, remained capable, fulfilled all our obligations. both political

and have survived on their own at a high level, and it 's a huge job, it's a huge effort, so we 're confident in our abilities, we're not saying it 's going to be an easy process, but we also need time to define the key negotiating positions , and i am sure that in the future we will focus on building bilateral relations with... hungary, i have repeatedly said that i consider prime minister orban's visit to ukraine a priority, this person who almost put the future of europe and the future of ukraine in europe at a standstill , has not seen the country in which you and i live. you and i survived the maidan, the annexation of crimea, donbas, changes in the state, land reform, banking reform, now.

we live in full-scale war, we see what is happening in terms of fighting corruption, restarting the institution, everything prime minister orban did not see or feel this. did not feel the ukrainian people , and therefore it is very important for him to come here, and we are doing everything possible for this, i want to draw your attention to the fact that just the other day yermak had a telephone conversation with minister siyarto, who is actually responsible for everything, and for economy, and for foreign affairs, and for the prime minister's visit, and for the prime minister's communication with the ukrainian authorities, and sufficiently warm reviews. is based on the results of this conversation, we will force hungary to our dialogue with us, force them to see that the ukraine we know and those 90% of people who want the eu, and after that, of course, we will watch the next steps. we often

talk about hungary itself as such a stopping factor, a difficult country for negotiations, but even without ukraine's accession to the eu, that is partial liberalization. the trade that took place caused problems with poland, with slovakia, with romania, with bulgaria, blocking the border, grain, trucks that can't go, don't you think that the economic issues during the specific negotiations on eu membership will become the key challenge along the way , i'm sure not, i can say that we're a little bit, well, how would you... say, how, how do you put it, we've a little bit overlooked those risks, because we, as a country, which focuses on survival and struggle, did not even question the fact that there are trade rules in the european union, which is a condition,

we operated according to them within the framework of the free trade zone for 10 years, we even had arbitration processes, it did not even occur to us the idea that there can be such egregious cases. after all, it is possible to block the borders equate, well, in our case, as in principle a violation of the constitution, because for the sake of the rules in which the eu countries currently live, countries changed their constitutions, poland changed the constitution, and hungary, and romania, and, that is, this is the sovereign authority of the european commission, and we did not even anticipate that such politicization was possible, on the one hand, and on the other hand, i believe... that the european commission made the right decision not to continue the restrictions, because there were no grounds for them, but i believe that the trade policy of the european the commission was enough unsuccessful from the point of view

of the controllability of the process, i also told this to the relevant european commissioner, i do not want to politicize this issue here, of course the president of the european commission does not solve all issues alone... there are a large number of members, team members, and i believe that this the situation has not been finalized, the situation has not been stressed, and the ineffective work of the commission in this direction, if possible, i will simply compare it with another question, i also said many times in the interview that on the morning of february 24, i called the eu commissioner for migration ilvi and i understood that there were huge queues at the borders, and i understood that we still had covid certificates then, let me remind you, but i simply could not imagine how people would now be questioned about all these documents, certificates, queues, and the first , what i heard from her, olga , calm down, all borders are open to all

ukrainians, no matter how many there are, i say that some have no documents, some have nothing with them, they don’t even have things, they don’t speak, she says: even if they don't have documents, we will shelter everyone, and from that moment we did not let go of the situation for a second, we thought that spring was coming, children, children need to go to schools, institutes, need to receive documents, need to receive payments, we are talking about 7.5 million people who did not create a crisis in european union, and it was effective management, but from the point of view of trade, from the side of the commission, i did not see this and i... believe that this is the biggest mistake. do you think any lessons will be learned from this, or does a certain politicization of the issue still prevent the solution of the problem? well, i think so this is my public communication as part of summing up the results of the year, it will have an effect, and this, this is a pragmatic position, not everyone

will like to hear this, but to confront ukraine, with countries, neighbors, in conditions when eh... we have no other options except for the export of products across the borders of the european union, it is as irresponsible as possible, and in full view. world and all other european countries, i am talking about france, spain, italy, portugal, holland, and austria, which are the biggest beneficiaries of ukrainian products, which also have questions, to show the whole of europe that it is possible to violate the rules, eu rules so brutally. i think that this is not a constructive position as much as possible, and it should be understood that even in these conditions, ukraine. managed to ensure security in the black sea on its own, thanks to the ukrainian

armed forces, the large russian black sea fleet rests in the sevastopol bay across the peninsula, and here we would have been helped by military aid, but these are our efforts, we did it, we saved ourselves, so the situation is ambiguous, i don't... want to actually blame none of these countries because they were given the opportunity to do so. in 2024 , elections to the european parliament will be held, and we can all see the growing sympathy for right-wing populist forces in europe. in your opinion, how will this affect the further support of the country by the european union, in particular, in the process of our membership negotiations, because this is a process that takes years, and personnel must be changed. and it is interesting how much we depend on the personnel here, of course we certainly depend, but relatively

speaking, the war itself turns into enough strategic phase, and we are talking about security guarantees, i will now explain why i am saying this, we are talking about long-term security guarantees and about the set course in... the country towards the european union, and in principle, each of these decisions, it determines the future of europe itself, this is a very important strategic step that we have been taking since the beginning of the war, we first heard that the world will be with us as long as it takes, on june 23, 2022, when ukraine was granted candidate status, before that all statements were not'. visible, every morning we woke up, i mean all our

leadership, fearing that some political situation in the country will change today, and we will hear a reversal, as is happening right now down below, in a number of countries, and that is why we have set a priority for ourselves to mint some things, the first is our the path to the european union, the status of a candidate, the start of negotiations - this is an irreversible process and these are decisions that have already... we have connected ukraine with all the enlargement countries, these are moldova, georgia, the western balkans, that is, we already have, i don't like to say this is for, but we are at war, we already have a fund, the enlargement front, i call it that it is not only the eu that is advancing, and we as the enlargement countries are advancing, and there are agreements on security guarantees, that is, in such conditions it is extremely difficult to show, as it were... political polarization, because in fact there is a nato bloc , there is a block of the organization of the european union

and the countries are connected, well, it also affects the development of industry, economy , defense-industrial complex, that is why there is such a strong basis to prevent shaking, i am sure that in the end and in the united in the states, the situation is stabilizing, it will reach a certain absurdity, and then it will begin to unfold in reverse. but what bothers me the most are the attempts of some odious european leaders to lead the right-wing movement, that is, before that we saw such point -like, let's say, victories in certain countries, that is, in the netherlands, a certain radical party came to power, in slovakia it was also quite similar. .. aggressive rhetoric in poland , such were serious political races, and

this force remains active in the parliament. the most difficult thing is to observe that there is a desire to lead this movement, to increase it, to influence radical movements in the united states, and i think that precisely the decision of december 15, those who will listen to me from colleagues, know what i am talking about, neutralized this threat as much as possible, neutralized it as much as possible. and we were able to avoid the europe that we would not like to see, seriously, you perceive this decision to be so fateful for europe, that is, it is not yet in... the decision on membership is possible where membership is concerned, it concerns what the intentions were, let's say so, in the matter of hungary's position in the list, the list compromises, there were far from being issues, not only issues of ukraine, but you also mentioned

the elections to the european parliament and the formation of the new european commission. and the financial aid of hungary, and even this was confirmed at my official meetings, that the issue is not in ukraine, yes, that is why there were a lot of issues on the negotiating table, and actually the ukrainian card was simply so strong that it was possible to solve it future political schedules in the european parliament, in the european commission, in the coalition europeis. leaders, that is ukraine was at the top of the iceberg, there were many different discussions under it, so president macron, and the prime minister of camelonia, and chancellor scholz, and the chancellor of austria, and the polish prime minister, and the spanish prime minister, that is, everyone understood , that this decision is much

more important than only for ukraine. on the way to membership in the european union, ukraine will have to'. to do a great job, and how will the citizens feel these changes, what will change for us in parallel with how the country will change the legislation, implement european norms, i think two main things, three things even, first, these changes will be felt by business, because regardless of the field, there is transport, logistics, services, there is food security. the rules are the same, the conditions, or rather, the conditions are the same , the rules and requirements are different, the conditions are free competition, that is, this is a very, very big change, because now we actually have such state control, the state establishes everything completely and the business somehow survives there , here he pays taxes and understands that every day

something can change, first, the conditions that are established, they are established systematically, they... are the basis of the functioning of the economy, they do not change every day, and this is free competition, that is, only conditions are established regarding safety, quality, control, the implementation of services there, and full, complete freedom of development is provided, this is a new, newest approach for the history of ukraine , but we already have such experience in many areas, and that's good. next for citizens, negotiations begin with the bloc. fundamental, fundamental changes, which means that there will be constant control, now and after the country becomes a member of the eu, the functioning of the judiciary, ah, the functioning of the entire law enforcement sector, i.e. eventually the entire field

of law enforcement agencies, it will be aligned and it will be clear who has what functions, we are already moving towards this, there will be... complete predictability, i can already feel these changes on myself, because before , when representatives of businesses, for example, or associations came to me with problems, we had to somehow understand them, solve them, now that we have created effective law enforcement agencies, they are working, still there are certain manipulations, i i feel the result on myself, because i can safely say, go to court, i can say that, i will be sure that if citizens go to the higher anti-corruption court, if they go to the supreme court, or file complaints with the higher council of justice, it bodies that i trust, because i know how they are formed, i know who is selected there, i can say that, for me personally, it is actually a huge change when i can say so with pride, go, go to court, and well

, actually the third most important element... this political stability, eh, maybe i will compare with such an element, but hungary, for example, can afford orbán, because they are members of the eu, they are members of nato, and in any development of events, they have support, they have solidarity, they have the opportunity, they have confidence, both financially and defensively, and they are always supported because... they are part of the club and that is very important, you can play and experiment, yes, you can to be calm, yes, not to worry, yes, there is some yanukovych on the horizon, everyone left. on the maidan, again some, some crises and so on, that is, it will allow people to calm down and finally relax from the fact

that they can no longer bear responsibility for the fate of the state on their shoulders every day. well, i think that it will not be possible to completely relax without nato only thanks to the european union, yes, and then let 's talk about our euro-atlantic integration, the year 2024 will also be significant for us thanks to the nato summit in washington, what do you expect from it? i don't have, let's say, first of all, i don't think that this summit will happen historic, because he is in washington, perhaps precisely because this summit is in washington, yes, four days before the convention of the republican party, right in the middle of the election campaign, whatever i would call it. it is historical, and several things are important for us: we have fulfilled all our obligations after vilnius, we have created the nato council of ukraine, we have a defense committee, a military

committee, a committee for the development of information exchange, and a political committee, we have a council of ukraine -nato at the level of ministers of foreign affairs, defense, well and accordingly the president started its creation, which means that we, actually for the first time... and even i have the opportunity to compare before vilnius and after, we work in the format of equals, and before that it was the only format in which nato, in which officially , legally, all decisions about ukraine were made without ukraine, there was no procedure by which it was necessary to discuss anything with ukraine at all, we lived in this, existed all the time, now the situation has changed, secondly, we received four recommendations from the allies. which are presented by the secretary general regarding key reforms on the way to membership, we are already working on them, just the other day the minister

of defense presented proposals, relevant proposals to the president, and we are once again ready for the vilnius summit, our expectations have not changed, we believe that security guarantees, the issue of ukraine's membership in nato. rather, we do not think that the issue of security guarantees, security in europe and ukraine's membership in nato, they will be on the agenda, as long as it takes before a decision is made, regardless of whether it is washington, this, this is not a nato summit at all, this overnight decision, as the americans say, that's why we did our homework, and even today there are quite serious reasons to believe that the discourse is changing, and... the question of nato membership is being depoliticized, and it becomes clear that from a pragmatic point of view there are a number of such elements that make

it possible to understand that sooner or later the war will come close to the borders of nato, and it is possible that it will not be from the territory of ukraine, it is necessary to understand, to understand this, that is why the increase in military aid to ukraine. our capabilities and defeating the enemy's plans, these are priorities, and i think that this will be discussed in washington from a different point of view, not only from a political point of view, but look at the situation: all ukraine, partners, russia, understand that the real most powerful guarantee of security for ukraine today is the accession to nato . nato says that this cannot be discussed until the end of the war. president volodymyr. zelensky also says that joining nato in parts is not a working structure. putin says that he is ready to fight for ukraine for years. simply

it doesn't matter where the ukrainian troops will stand on the border of 1991, or whether part of the territory will be occupied, they can shoot missiles here from the caspian sea, right? so this is not a stalemate situation, when putin can keep ukraine in tension, or whoever will be there after him for years, and nato will say, you still have a war. if nothing is done then it will be 100%, well we're just going with it, that's the first, that is, if we do nothing, definitely the scenario as you say will have, will take place, because that's the green light for putin to move, yes and this is in his interests, of course, and secondly, ukraine has a much stronger position, because we... we are at war, we are surviving, and we understand that we will fight as long as it takes to win, and our position is not will change, depending on

the elections that... some, some of the countries, and this unites the whole people, all the citizens, although now the society is very electrified, but the reality and awareness, it is the same for everyone, it is not a single awareness among european leaders, not everyone is ready to take on historical responsibility, some the leaders understand that in a year or two, the electoral cycle will end, they will be fed up. the situation is caused by radical forces, that is, not everyone is ready to rise to the level of historically, historically , historically, historical decisions of such far-sighted people, we are working on this, and we believe that the guarantee of ukraine's security in nato is security for everyone, it is security for the entire european continent, it a guarantee, a guarantee of compliance with the agreements after the end of the war to all.

parties, after, after leaving the territory in 1991, this is a guarantee of peace in general it is clear for europe, for ukraine, but this is a guarantee of peace in europe, it is a guarantee that after the end of the war, and the agreements that made it possible to stabilize the situation in europe, to achieve peace, will be respected, and there are many aspects that i, unfortunately, do not know about i can speak, i really want to. i can't, but you're going to hear a lot of interesting angles on this before washington, so without even talking about the end date of membership, there's a lot we can do now, we've already put together a roadmap for interoperability, through the assessment of capabilities in the security and defense sector, through planning through the reform of defense procurement, which will already fully

comply with the nato mechanism. winter and , accordingly, membership and invitation - this may not be the initial, but the last moment, which will seal the decision with the signatures of all the leaders. yes, but we simply see what is happening with sweden, it would seem, one of the most developed countries, not that europe, the world, in a normal security situation, there is no russia on the border, but, that is , they have some kind of safe distance, but still the decision is final. sweden's accession to nato has not been approved, hungary and turkey have their comments, turkey seems to have reached an agreement with hungary, and i am afraid to imagine what will happen when the parliaments of nato countries have to make decisions regarding ukraine. you talk about the fact that they feel that ukraine now provides their security, but do they really feel, when a missile didn't fall nearby, you can really feel it, uh, well, sweden uh... uh, it's sweden, that's exactly

the scenario , which we follow, because in madrid, when sweden and finland were invited to membership, it involved an invitation and in the period before the completion of the security guarantee procedures, some allies provided security guarantees to finland and sweden, and no matter how long the political process lasts, these countries have guarantees, moreover, it is not a marismatic-political process, because. .. in finland, which has a direct border with russia, and the decision was made very quickly, because it is an immediate threat, if you look at sweden, and, well, it is like a santa claus hat, surrounded like a santa claus hat, surrounded by nato countries, completely around the entire perimeter, this is the first, the first line of guarantee, yes, and the second, that these guarantees are given on behalf of the entire alliance,

and ... therefore, such conditions allow the political process to be held, it is absolutely, well, let's say, abnormal, yes, but this is absolutely clear, and ukraine is talking about the same scenario, security guarantees are currently being negotiated, and what's more, just the other day, on december 29, there was a massive shelling, and we also have some events. took place on the territory of poland, and this, for example, can be a reason to the application of even the fifth article of the washington treaty, not in the sense that it is an attack, but it is definitely a threat, so there are many scenarios, we will talk about them, we are talking now with the allies, and on the right...