but serhiy rudenko has already returned and is already preparing a ready-made detar, the verdict program is literally in a few moments, stay with us and watch together, good evening, we are from ukraine, glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish you all the best health, during the next hour... we will talk about ukraine, about the world, about the war and about our victory, today in the program. nato condemns russia's massive attacks, while ukraine expects long-range missiles from its allies. is it possible to buy off the army? replace mobilization with monetary compensation from conscripts. ukrainians believe in victory, they trust the zsu and zelenskyi. what does sociology show?

we will talk about this and other things during the next hour with our guests, people's deputy of ukraine iryna herashchenko, diplomat and ex-minister pavlo klimkin, and political scientist igor reiterovych. however, before starting our big conversation, i suggest watching the video of the return home of 230 ukrainian defenders who were in russian captivity, and many of they had status, official status. a prisoner of war, but there were those who were considered missing and had the status of wanted persons. most of those released are men, 225 people and five women. watch this poignant video. we will sacrifice friendship for our freedom. and

we will show that we are brothers of the kozai family, glory to ukraine, glory, we also congratulate the released defenders of ukraine and their families on their return to their homeland. friends, for those who are currently watching us on youtube and facebook, please like this one. video, a also subscribe to our social media pages. in addition, during the broadcast, we conduct a survey, today we ask you about whether it is possible to replace mobilization with an additional tax for conscripts. yes, no, please vote on youtube by choosing the appropriate option, or you can write your comment under this video. if you are watching us on tv, please pick up your smartphone or phone and call. if you think

mobilization can be replaced by additional tax for someone, then 0800 211 381, no 0800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free at the end of the program, we will tally up the results of this vote, we have our first guest on the phone, people's deputy of ukraine, iryna gerashchenko, mrs. iryna, i congratulate you and thank you for with us today, thank you for the... request and let me also join in these happy words of congratulations to the families of the freed hostages of our hostages, this is a very big job, a great happiness, as someone who has been involved in this process, i realize that russia is not just blocking about this release, she hides information about ukrainian prisoners, and to be honest, finding a person who is considered missing is really a difficult story, a great joy, congratulations. and men and women, heroes

of ukrainians on ukrainian soil, and i thank this negotiation group once again, it is hard work, and of course, we are waiting for all ukrainians at home. well, it must be said that in addition to ukrainians , representatives of the united arab emirates were included in the negotiation group, precisely through the mediation of the united arab emirates. mrs. iryna, 500 rockets and drones in the last week by the russian invaders released on the territory of ukraine. two massive strikes on the capital, putin's new threats , public, what do you think putin wants to exchange terror for, because what he does is terrorism, for negotiations, for our surrender, or for the right to remain the number one terrorist in the world. i think that first of all, ah, we really have genocidal practices and terror, and, unfortunately, ah, russia is a terrorist state, and its totalitarian dictator putin has not given up

on his plans, which is the destruction of all of ukraine. and obviously, we see unpleasant signals, but they are clear, despite russia sanctions... built its economy on military lines and increased its own production of projectiles and missiles, and was also able to bypass sanctions now by supplying dual-purpose goods that are used in the production of these missiles, and actually all this is a clear signal to the world that russia only understands the language of strength and ukraine, which we have to mobilize, and it is not only about the military. increased mobilization, but also mobilization of the rear, mobilization of our economy. this is all very important. it is obvious that putin intimidates the civilian population, terrorizes it in order to sow despair and panic. he checks the dome, the strength of the western air defenses,

and actually, he also enjoys the fact that the united states is currently suspending these military supplies to ukraine from ukraine. and the european union, and perhaps expects that during this pause he will find such a hole in our sky, when it is possible to strike more painfully, even though tragedies, blows are very heavy, we see that in kyiv on december 29, a person died, well, not today, but there and died of wounds - 30 already from kyiv, a terrible tragedy happened yesterday, the second day as well january and... what worries me here is that ukraine is not on the front pages of the world right now, ukraine, again, although after such terrible tragedies, after such terror, it seems that all the world's media have only to talk about this, but no, and this is already

our responsibility as ukrainian diplomats, ukrainian authorities, ukrainian politicians, to return the world's attention, to show that russia's crimes continue, to consolidate the world around us. joint victory over evil, and here, in fact, the wisdom of the authorities is also necessary not to block this joint work of all those who can to add ukraine's voice, on the contrary, to do everything so that ukraine returns, returns to the first column with these horrors, because this is critically important for us today. mrs. iryna, on december 25, on christmas, a draft law from... shmygal appeared on mobilization, on mobilization, this document has already caused wide discussions in social networks, there were many different opinions among politicians. what do you say about the content of this draft law and what are its chances of becoming law? first, it is obvious that the author is not

shmyhal, such a collective idiot, and me too it's just very strange that the prime minister of ukraine agrees to play the role of a scapegoat. duvail to sign everything that we are under the hood in order to probe public opinion. second, it is obvious that this so-called draft law was not intended as a plan, that it would enter the parliament and be voted on, because even the people's deputies from the monomajority and the human rights commissioner recognized its unconstitutionality , but in fact there a lot of devastating, absolutely critical remarks about and corruption. of this draft law and his of unconstitutionality, and the servants themselves have already declared that there will be some other compromise bill submitted there, but the position of european solidarity here is as follows: it is obvious to us that we need to strengthen mobilization, and those units that have been

on the front line for two years are exhausted, they need rotation, they need replacement, loss of manpower, and therefore of course they have to undergo training. not just recruited, trained fighters who will help defend ukraine, this is the first. second, mobilization must be fair. here you are pointed out that somewhere in the bowels of the president's office, some other thoughts are being blocked about the possibility of redemption from mobilization for those who receive high salaries due to the payment of personal income tax there, this is not about justice, it is obvious that this speaks not only about the failure of mobilization, and about the failure of the economy. which also really needs working years and there should be reservation, but not on such conditions, certainly not on conditions of injustice. third and key, the president is responsible for mobilization, according to the law on mobilization, and therefore, excuse me, we are in this parliament has already voted eight waves

of mobilization, which decrees and laws were presented by president zelenskyi. it is precisely the supreme commander-in-chief, who has the entire scale, who should submit such a large-scale systemic position regarding mobilization. of information, who understands what the strategic plan is, on which the strategic plan is based, under which these mobilization plans are developed, this is an attempt to transfer everything there to others in over... very wrong, by the way, i want to note that, for example, the president and still hasn't signed several martial laws since the repeal there are the properties of the same drones, which are now being written off in a very bureaucratic manner, ending with the law on which he insisted on reducing the mobilization age, and he has been in the president's office for several months, this is such an interesting story, when it is obvious to everyone that the problem is complex , that it must be solved, but the desire is... that somehow, you know, it will dissipate or someone else will solve these problems, it is very, very

strange, and that is exactly why we believe that neither the government, nor the people's deputies, they can that they are not allowed to everything of the scope of military secrecy, they are not participants in the supreme commander-in-chief's bid, or if they are, they are not military, a priori they cannot write a comprehensive law about mobiles. and this should be submitted by the supreme commander-in-chief, and such a law will definitely be discussed, considered and so on by our political power. and lastly, we are talking about strengthening mobilization, but here we should also be talking about demobilization, justice says that sick people, even cancer patients in our country today, do not receive demobilization, those units that are all the time on to the bakhmutsky, navdian direction, they should clearly hear when that emerges. their services, and this is also about justice, such issues, it seems to me, should be very clearly

defined in the law. volodymyr zelenskyi in an interview with zaekonist stated that lowering the mobilization age from the current 27 years and reducing the grounds for dismissal are not popular in ukraine, but there is currently no alternative to this step, which he says: mobilization is not only that soldiers go to the front, it's about all of us, it's... the mobilization of all efforts, that's the only way to protect ours state and de-occupy our land, we , frankly, switch to domestic politics, this is a choice that ukrainians will have to make, if we continue to focus on domestic politics, we need to call elections, change the law, the constitution, but forget about counter-offensive actions and de-occupation , zelensky emphasized, but even before the adoption of this draft law, which may or may not become law, we can already see the reaction of society, that is, many

people who have a disability, or a third disability group, or have an exemption from military service, have already lined up at the ukrainian-polish border, there are some new instructions on how to check everything, kilometer-long queues, in your opinion, or whether it was possible... to do something differently for so that people , every person in ukraine understood that mobilization is irreversible, in the 24th year there will obviously be a large draft for the army, and a large mobilization, and before this mobilization it was also necessary to properly communicate with society, society , to explain how it will all happen , well, the key words are to communicate correctly, the society has heard for two years that there will be coffee in crimea tomorrow, and you know how the mantra was repeated, i believe in the armed forces, of course, we all

believe in the armed forces, but all we must support the armed forces and realize that the war today really needs to strengthen resources, both economic and human, and they are really limited in our country, so we need very proper management regarding the fact that the mobilized, who are preparing to go to the front, must be trained , should be equipped with weapons. shells with all the necessary things, and not just mobilized, and this is very, very important, and for this society fed by the marathon for two years about, well , there are absolutely some pink ponies galloping along that marathon and unrealistic stories about the fact that tomorrow the victory will be a shock, the law, the bill has been introduced about mobilization, when it began to dawn on some people that the war would not end tomorrow, but that it would really be necessary and possible to go to war, and society... in fact, they were brought up very infantile all these two years, and now it sounds so harsh

reality, so this is a complete stoppage of the communication policy of the government, which threw all its resources, and we are talking about 2 billion every year for the marathon, on propaganda, itself, and not on propaganda and correct communication regarding mobilization, regarding recruiting, did all such things, you know how anti-recruiting, what is happening at the borders is definitely anti-recruiting, or these ideas about the possibility of buying off the army, so you need to communicate correctly, president zelenskyi... says very fair things in this interview with the last one that you quoted, and according to the economist, and actually, it is designed for a western audience, but it is important to say the same things for the domestic audience, really, so that there is justice here, and the last thing, well , then you have to yourself, as the supreme commander, taking into account that

the trust rating remains among ukrainian institutions and politicians to the highest level to zelenskyi to also submit such... for the project, it is very important, and the last thing i would like to note here is that you asked about borders, so there cannot be normative acts higher than the law, if in the law on today it is written that certain, with certain groups of disabilities or there are parents with many children, they are not subject, they have a deferment from mobilization, it should work, in the new law, do you want to take away these norms, be it or not. then tell this to society, but then write down all the categories of those who will be mobilized and are subject to mobilization, record once again all the categories that have a postponement, this postponement, from mobilization, and work according to the laws, and not absolutely according to some illegal letters of stefanchuk, by order of shmyhal or well

by president zelenskyi's decree, which are also essentially a violation of the constitution, that's a lot. society stirs up and creates incomprehensible things, mrs. iryna, obviously, both the announcement of this draft law and its consideration in the verkhovna rada should be, let's say, logical, consistent and in a way that would be understandable to society, because on december 25, this christmas david arakhamia, the leader of the servant of the people faction, said about this draft law, then everyone started to see what... for the draft law, i'm sorry, serhiy, i'm going to kill you, not just he said, yes, but they started trying to translate from a sick head into a healthy one, throwing around the thesis that , as it were, commander-in-chief zuluzhnyi said that he needed 500,000 new soldiers, and this law is needed for this, they did not succeed, then zuluzhnyi went out for his first press -conference, stated that he never

voiced such figures of 500 thousand, that for him the important mobilization is not engaged in at all. mrs. iryna, now, now we will listen to the industrious man, it is better to listen to him himself than to repeat it 10 times to you and me. so, the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine is ready to mobilize on december 26. in no way did you tell me the figure of 500, not 400 , i am talking about the general need, and when one of the girls asked, i already said that this need, of course, is divided into certain periods. of course, that is, someone will be mobilized in january, someone even in december, what can i say about the fact that we are not talking about the fact that there is all this need now that we need in order to get involved and put on shoes and give weapons, no, this is not true at all. returning to the work of the verkhovna rada of ukraine, in your opinion, if there is such a request,

it is quite urgent, regarding the solution to mobilization, is it worth it? there was a pause in the verkhovna rada, a new year's pause, well, if there is a war, if there is an urgent need for mobilization, well, then we sat down and resolved this issue, during the week they considered this draft law, or alternative drafts, you already mentioned this, evgenia kravchuk wrote on her page on facebook that there will be an alternative draft law, that is, there are two more powers in power, that is, in fact, the government introduced a bill, well, the servant of the people will introduce a bill. and i am telling you the following information that from tomorrow the committee on national security will start working as a specialized committee on this bill, and i think that there will be very serious and difficult discussions in closed session for a few days with the involvement of representatives of the military and the government in order to to listen to all positions regarding

mobilization plans, and mobilization is not an end in itself, it should be based on our... strategic plan on our the plan for this year is the war plan, and under this, under this, physical resources, and technical resources, and weapons, and the economy will be drawn up. and actually, i understand that now the plan of the banking authorities is to transfer really everything from this short-lived absolutely collective law signed by shmyhal to the national security committee, which is supposed to make, well , some kind of compromise... canapé, as they say, but let's see who is in the national security committee, first of all, bezugla herself is there, she plays, if not the first, then the second scream, and ending with the same bezuglas, maybe less active, less known, but believe me, no less dangerous, and it seems to me that this once again confirms the thesis of european

solidarity, that this law, the bill must come from the supreme commander, this is the first, second, you are absolutely right that the parliament is working now in an absolutely abnormal regime, never in times of crisis in any country did it happen that the parliament sat there for two plenary days a month, this is like a feat. there it seemed that we were there considering the amendments for four whole hours, absolute madness, when the head of the verkhovna rada the rada cannot organize the work of the verkhovna rada, especially when we have a majority, when we do not know the work schedule of the verkhovna rada, when we do not have transparency in the work of the verkhovna rada, when we cannot press the presence of journalists there, when we cannot press the broadcast, and ukrainians very often they are such a discovery for them, so they voted for it, and what? budget, and it is true that uah 2 billion is going to the marathon, but to be honest, that such a law was discussed, well, it is not normal, when the head of the verkhovna rada and his servants, even kanal the council was leased to the office of the president

, and there are endless advisers-advisors of the office, instead of showing such sensitive, high-profile discussions, which concern such important topics for the country, and therefore i want to tell you that it starts there already in the first decade of january. .. plenary days we will again raise the issue of the full-fledged work of the parliament, full-fledged plenary weeks, the day of the government in the parliament, sorry, we are already really confusing the prime minister with charles michel, because charles michel is more often in verkhovna rada. shmyhal was in the parliament once during the two years of the war, friends, it is not normal when you cannot ask questions of the government. thank you, thank you, mrs. irina, i hope that after a short time. over the weekend, the verkhovna rada will still take up consideration of the bill on the weekend, but we will strive for normal work, so thank you, it

was iryna herashchenko, people's deputy of ukraine, friends, we are working live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are watching us on youtube right now, don't be shy, bet please like this video so that it can be trended on youtube, and take part in our poll, today we ask you the following: can mobilization be replaced by an additional tax for conscripts, yes, no, please vote in to our youtube , everything is quite simple there, no, if you watch us on tv, pick up your phone or smartphone and vote, if you think that this way can solve the issue of mobilization, that is, a person pays an additional tax and does not mobilize, then 0800 211 381, no 0800 211 382. all calls to these numbers are free, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. next , we have a politician, diplomat, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2014-19,

pavlo klimkin. mr. pavle, i congratulate you, thank you for joining our broadcast, and happy new year. of course, friends, happy new year to everyone, so real, and i'm glad to be with you, mr. sergey. always, this week, mr. pavle, was marked by the fact that the russian occupiers massively shelled ukraine, two massive strikes on december 29, at the end of the year, on the 23rd and at the beginning of january 24-2, what do you think putin is showing the world his impunity, and does he just want to become, remain in history, world history, as ter... number one in the world, i think , that this is not about history, he really wants to demonstrate that he is capable of delivering these blows, unfortunately,

these blows did not become an emotional shock, well , they did not become an emotional shock for us either, but we also somehow expected them, but on unfortunately, they did not become an emotional shock for our partners. they are unique, just like our answer is unique, no one in the history of military affairs and actually in the history of the world has managed to repulse a blow that involved drones, various types of missiles, and most importantly hypersonic weapons, and we actually show that it is possible to fight it, but paradoxically our ... the germans look at these successes, which are also due to the supply of air defense from them to the best regulars.

settings, software changes that allow better response, but nevertheless, this does not cause them a sense of urgent actions, urgent in the sense of real time, and does not cause, unfortunately, the emotional shock that should be generated from these videos that you show, and when you are in kyiv, you... feel either in odesa, or in kharkiv, or in kherson , or in the dnipro, and wherever, the crooked horn, you feel it directly, you feel it both in the heart and in the mind, and so we need a really strategic response, first aid, then the expansion of these types of weapons, which are critical to us, of course, further development

of air defense, and i would say. anti-missile defense, since now we have to talk about the possibility of placing anti-missile systems on the territory of ukraine, and not only the air defense shield, is an important point that we should talk about with our partners, and everything else related to this, but nevertheless, i have not yet seen from our partners of the response that i would... consider adequate to this strike, mr. pavle, the head of the polish foreign ministry, radoslaw sikorski said that we must respond to the attack of the russian federation in a language that putin understands, the polish foreign minister called on western countries to provide missiles to ukraine long range and increase sanctions against russia in response to its missile terror, to quote mr. sikorsky. we have to

answer the last ones. attack on ukraine in a language that putin understands, tightening sanctions to prevent him from building new weapons with contraband components and providing kiev with long-range missiles that allow it to destroy launch sites and command centers, sikorsky wrote on twitter. today, there was information that the ukraine-nato council will hold an emergency meeting due to massive strikes by russia federation, one of the key topics announced will be strengthening against. defense of ukraine is an important signal of euro-atlantic unity against the background of the escalation of russian terror. mr. sikorsky said quite clearly that there are two issues: sanctions and long-range missiles. air defense is important, but long-range missiles, because without long-range missiles, russia will continue to use its territory, which is adjacent to the ukrainian state, to launch

attacks, including... with s-300 or s-400 missiles. what do you think about it, or can it be fast will the west decide on long-range missiles, or will it again be a hesitation about whether it will not be perceived by russia as the involvement of the north atlantic alliance in ukraine's war against russia? let's figure it out, and what kind of means and what kind of missile weapons do we need in order to get... these platforms or launchers, and we see that they are launched from ships in the black sea, and we can certainly get these ships, if we're going to have more anti-missile weapons, particularly cruise missiles, and that's a very, very important story, but also these missiles are launched, for example , from russian aircraft located on the territory of russia

or... the caspian sea, in order to effectively reach them, other high-quality weapons are needed, for this, for example, such missiles as taurus will be clearly insufficient. i sense the sentiment in the west as a desire to gradually, and unfortunately very slowly, raise the stakes. it is obvious that now the west will... consult, and what is your own answer, what was written by radik, radik sikorskyi, and you just quoted him, of course, a very good story, we only have understand, but what will the americans actually say, since the americans have such missiles, which can effectively work against russian targets, they are in the hands of the americans, the germans have them, well, some of our other partners have them in part, but it depends on them. this

answer is necessary with them .