good evening, we are from ukraine, glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, i greet everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next hour , we talk about ukraine, the world, the war, and our victory. today in the program. ukrainian air defense against the russian missile arsenal, what else can putin strike and how will we respond? there is no plan b. allies will discuss military aid problems at the ukraine-nato council. mobilization compromises. the verkhovna rada is discussing a high-profile government bill. about this and other things during the next hour we talk with ours.

our guests are general ihor romanenko and the former head of the security service of ukraine, people's deputy of ukraine valentyn nalyvaichenko. however, before starting our big conversation, i suggest watching a video of how an su-34 fighter-bomber burned on the night of january 4 at the russian shagol airfield located in chelyabinsk. the main department of the ministry of defense of ukraine is behind the special operation. let's see.

friends, for those who are currently watching us on youtube and facebook, please put like this video and also subscribe to our pages on these platforms. in addition, throughout the program we conduct a survey, we ask you about whether the military should go into politics, yes. no, if you're watching on youtube, it's pretty simple, if you have an opinion, please leave it in the comments below this video, if you're watching us on tv, please pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you do you think that the military should go into politics, 0800 211 381, no, 080 211 382, ​​call please, all calls to these numbers are free, we have our ext.

the guest is ihor romanenko, retired lieutenant general of the armed forces of ukraine, deputy chief of the general staff of the armed forces of ukraine in 2006-10. mr. general, i congratulate you, i am glad to see you on our air. i welcome you too, glad to see you. mr. general, let 's start with today's explosions in occupied sevastopol and yevpatoria, as the commander writes. forces of the armed forces of ukraine there was an attack on sevastopol and yevpatoria, more precisely on the command posts, and once again, mr. olyschuk, petro oleschuk thanked the air force pilots who planned the operation for their impeccable combat work. mr. general, in your opinion, by what means could the air force hit these command posts in... countries and what do you

know about these strikes? well, the information that is provided, including from the records, as they did in the very place near sevastopol, about the participation of the shahedis, but if, well, the type of shahedis, if we have an unmanned strike weapon of ours here, most likely the devices, but if the head, thank you... people, then this indicates that there were applications of slykas, slytakov is a variant of the use of missiles that were provided to us by our allies, that is, stom shadow and scalp, french, so the most effective, we discussed this on your channel, striking, then it happens...

several types were used, different types, if organize and carry out calculations first, and then organize the formation of this strike. it is done in this way, and in this case, if it were done that way, that if different types are used, but somehow they must arrive at the goal at the same time, and then means of anti-aircraft defense and anti-missile defense are difficult to influence at the same time, if all these air targets were to be selected and... they can be planned so that they enter from different sides, that is, it is the most difficult, the so-called star strike, and that is why in this case a large part of the means launching an air strike will break through the defenses

and hit the targets, which is exactly what happened at these airfields, i visited both the airfields and the command... points in yevpatoria and belbek, here in yevpatoria there are factory aviation capabilities were at that time, and the russians built them up and use them accordingly, there are airfields at the plant and in belbek itself, we remember in belbek, there is the 27th russian su-30, as well as nik. the 31st k periodically appears and flies depending on the performance of tasks, that is, they justified there the issue of training the pilots of these planes, what about refueling in the air, this is not an easy story,

because if i were on the nato refueling stations, i would also participate and with britain, we took off and... refueled planes, those that arrived from the european continent under refueling from britain itself, and especially young people, is a rather complex operation, training, why did the russians do it , in order to have the opportunity to influence the aviation strike group of the american sea, and they even launched two in the mediterranean sea, and for that , in order to get there, apply the same... then this refueling is necessary, in addition, from the point of view of striking ukraine, it is refueled to stay in the air for a longer time if necessary, and after that to strike, and taking into account the importance

this aircraft of the russian aerospace forces, which is based on these airfields, and there is also a separate control system there, so... these operations were planned and they went well, i think, specification, something impressed, it will be a little bit later, our official military sources who are in such conditions will find out, foreign ones from satellites, photos, photos, light, corresponding, it will be possible to look in more detail and find out how much impression was made, but the fact that there... witnesses both near egepatori and near belbek about it was said repeatedly. mr. general, yesterday the minister of foreign affairs of poland, radislaw sikorsky, stated that after the massive strikes of russia on the territory of ukraine,

the armed forces of ukraine need to be provided with long-range weapons and long-range missiles, which would help solve the issue. in particular , in relation to those places from where planes take off, from where rockets are launched. in your opinion, how realistic is it that our western partners will come to the point that ukraine should strike with long-range missiles at military facilities on the territory of the russian federation, as i understand it, ours. the military-industrial complex does not currently produce those missiles that could fly there at a distance of 300-500 km or thousands? well, they produce, but exams are held and so on, work goes on for seven days, and for the current

time, well, the french supported, they did not talk about missiles, but about what they have the right to do, since they defend themselves to strike military targets. in russia, and there, that means, all this russian propaganda immediately raised this issue, all this noise, regarding this. and they categorically state that they will then strike, and so on. to us, we can already see what we remember, a year ago, perhaps, regarding the objects in the crimea, so to speak, they were such views that it is impossible to strike, because there will be an escalation and this is changing gradually, it will change there as well, but looks, in connection with these strikes, first of all, we need to ask this question and... the same ukraine-nato council will, as you know, raise the means of anti-

aircraft defense, as well as, of course, long-range missiles . in addition, north korea is already supplying the russians with missile points there, and these points themselves, that is, they add missiles, i draw your attention, with a small radius of action there up to 120 km, but 90 is older or 120, but everything is transmitted equally. and the work of the russians is actually coming to an end, if it has not already been completed, it must be checked according to the intelligence data regarding the supply of the corresponding ballistic missiles from iran , that is, it is not enough that the strikes are being delivered there, that is, of course, this is the time when it should be decided and germany, they are holding debates in their parliament there, as always waiting for all these to take place there strikes, because of the casualties in ukraine, and after that some kind of decision is made, and

despite the fact that work is going on so that they learn to accept prejudice, but they seem to be not very successful, and that is why the reaction to all these circumstances, shelling in ukraine, aerial, missile deliveries to north korea, missile deliveries to iran, sirens to the russians, this is exactly the time when it is necessary to provide this kind of... here they have christmas holidays, new year's, well, there are different reasons, but one way or another, this issue will be raised with nato countries, well, separately with countries that have the appropriate means, for example, anti-aircraft defense and not only anti-aircraft defense. mr. general,

today lieutenant general serhiy nayev, who commands the combined forces of the armed forces of ukraine and manages mobile air defense units in the north of ukraine, and in particular in the capital, stated that the situation with portable anti-aircraft systems for mobile air defense groups is as follows that there is enough ammunition to last several subsequent powerful attacks, about this... he said in an interview with afp. according to him, the current situation with portable anti-aircraft systems for mobile groups is such that there is a need to replenish the missile stockpile. he added that the priority at the moment is more ammunition, since the russian invaders are very eager to recognize our air defense system. watching how the russians actively and massively shelled ukraine during the last week. what goal does russia set for itself: to exhaust air defense, destroy air defense, or

still lead to a situation where ukraine will be forced to make some concessions towards russia, due to the fact that the russians are quite actively shelling the capital and the largest cities of ukraine. air defense is very important anti-hail, anti-missile defense. defense, and that is why they definitely monitor and try to damage anti-aircraft missile defense, but anti-aircraft defense is a means of protection, their purpose is to strike objects, and if last year most of them were infrastructure objects, we remember we believe that they wanted to go to lockdowns during the winter so that they would well, to undermine heat, light and the like, that is, to suppress the moral. the psychological state of our citizens, this is the majority, not only were there also

military facilities, but just like that, recently, at the end of last year and the beginning of this year, they pay significant attention to striking military facilities, including on the contact line, it is involved, which they almost did not do there with missiles, for example, with their shaheds, there they took to their there... volley systems and so on, and now they are also going to military facilities, these are airfields, this enterprises, looking for development, conducts the military-industrial complex of ours. ours , that is why there are such features, well, since the last blow, they did not pay attention to our two main cities, the largest, kyiv and kharkiv, but also all a-a, such planar rather large objects were found,

including and military objectives. and that is, there are this kind of accents this year, it must be kept in mind, in relation to manpads, their range is small, and therefore it will not be possible to complete the task by mobile groups with manpads, it is necessary, therefore, to arm these mobile groups, and their fate is already increasing to 20% of targets at low altitudes, they destroy them, and these... include winged missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles, well, including helicopters on small heights, airplanes, but what concerns objects on the territory of ukraine, then here, it means, anti-aircraft large-caliber machine guns and anti-aircraft

guns, small-caliber, are also involved. but it is also necessary for manpads, for example, thermal imagers are being modernized, equipped, fixed so that at night, they may have run over, for example, our portable ones, that is, there is not enough fire equipment, in addition, mobile groups need fire equipment, searchlights, thermal imagers, instructions, that is , equipment that is regional. even better, which would detect and accompany, which would increase the effective use of fire means of these mobile groups. these efforts, opportunities are increasing, the potential is growing, but not as quickly as we would like, you can understand general nayev, who is taking care that this potential grows in the north

on the north-east direction, for which he is responsible. mr. general, there are statistics ... in the 23rd year, air defense forces destroyed 3,800 air targets, 887 cruise missiles, 15 kinjal missiles, 41 iskander m ballistic missiles, 2,691 shakhet drones, 35 lancet drones, 131 types of other drones, considering the potential that the russian federation has, what can you say about the missiles that are in the arsenal of the russian army and that have not yet been used against ukraine, well, except of course those that carry nuclear warheads, they are working on in order to increase its effectiveness, that is, to use different types, and well, if something

new is developed, then perhaps there is not enough power, but from the last one, i would like to ... remind you that the zircon of the missile is naval, but they can use there, according to modernizations, not only on ships, but also in a complex, that is, they do, as a rule, universally, that is, well, it is like an iskander, for example, on operational-tactical missile systems, the launcher is launched by an iskander with a cruise missile in the form of a missile, the iskander m is a ballistic one, and modernized iskander is used from mig-31k aircraft so that the speed of this iskander, well, in this case, which is called a dagger, is hypersonic, that is, it does not appear like that, does not reach five sounds

of the speed of the so-called swings, but if not there are overtones. and when they are launched on the 31st, it gives this criterion of five swings and the speed becomes more and more a difficult target for the means of anti-missile defense, so they worked, putin did everything at the beginning of last year, if you remember, the show became tasks for the captain of the ship and so on, these are new missiles that have... hypersonic, the most real goal is not added by something, but by itself, and this is a problem, and we need to develop our own, work together with allies. their enterprise of the military-industrial complex for the production of advanced missile systems, with the ability to destroy, including

the zircon, which has a very high speed, it is not a ballistic, but a missile that is on ships and not only, they plan to distribute, that is, here this kind of problem and perspective, but i want to say if there is, and we see po... still have the opportunity for a few of them quickly, well , since the cost of these missiles is going on. that means that further the probability is already decreasing, there are three or four strikes, they are able to deliver with the existing missiles, although - they have

intact reserves, taking into account the fact that they are positioning themselves, that they are fighting not so much with ukraine, but actually with nato countries, that help ukraine, in general, more than fifty countries are helping ukraine in this war, then uh, it should be preserved. well, the same aerial x101, x555, which are launched from aerial platforms, from strategic bombers, that means they save the resource of these bombers, because here 95 ms are old, and they are not produced, they need to be maintained, and the tu-22 m3 is in the same condition there, so you are still finding spare parts, that is there are problems here, which means that... new ones are in operation and the tu-160 is relatively not new, and therefore they are trying to preserve this

strategic resource, strategic bombers, this is a component of the so-called nuclear triad, which includes submarines with missiles, nuclear warheads, mines, missiles and strategic bombers, so this is the approach to decision-making. complex is that what and how much comes out of the tasks, comes out of putin's ambition for the current time, and then these strikes are formed by special structures, which you expose to international and our investigative correspondents, there are photos, there is this center of them that is engaged in planning these strikes, so they still have to answer to the ukrainians and the world community for their actions of this kind, violation of laws, mr. general, you know, you know for sure, and you remember this story from 1999, when

ukraine signed an agreement with the russian federation to transfer to russia eight tu-160 bombers, three tu bombers -95 ms, and rockets. that went to cover this debt, there are more than 500 missiles, some, we know that some of the tu-22 bombers that you mentioned went to russia as a result of the distribution of the black sea fleet, but this is all that was transferred then from the ukrainian side of the russian state, including 575 x-55 missiles, it is coming back to us again, but it is already... it is coming back in the form of weapons with which they are killing us, trying to kill us, well, at least the serial numbers that were in the annexes to this transfer agreement missiles, were found on the debris

of missiles that then fell on our heads, what do you think, what did ukraine lose then, was it appropriate to do it then, and after 25 years, it became clear that russia is an enemy that uses this weapon against us, and that ukraine... should have it, after all did not pass all these positions, would we now have other opportunities, including for the response on the territory of the russian federation? it is clear that ukraine would have a lower russian strike potential, you listed these planes, of course, i remember it, and missiles, and before that they were the first to suppress tactical nuclear weapons, precisely tactical nuclear. the weapons that would be useful to us were provided by the wrong missiles in mine installations, the strategy that was aimed at the americans, and so on. and

those were the prices there, and to them, therefore, the same helped the americans and others there a little, transferred funds only to destroy these mines, missiles and so on, nothing more, because now we clearly see that even bill clinton admitted that everything is not right steps, especially in relation to our politicians that it was a strategic-level mistake, the transfer of nuclear weapons so. technical the most, that is why they took it from us, so that if we did not have such a potential, such a possibility of protection, and then already a strategy that would be inappropriate for us, it is simply expensive, and it was necessary to receive to fight for these funds, which was the real price, but the political will was not enough at that time for the leaders of the povoisky.

gathered and said that the military supports the position, because ukraine, one of the first states that refused, it is in the interests of peace in the whole world, and here at the front, here at and with such, let's say, ideology, with such information e-e arguments of this event, but all this comes back to us with great losses and blood of our military, civilians now, because definitely... these were mistakes as a nuclear weapons, as well as strategic ones, well, and then by selling off everything, that security issues have been left to the whole state for the final issues of some kind of role, that is, which starts on this kind of path sooner and later turns into tragedies, well, what do we have now, not brought to the final tragedy, as it were, but to

a difficult... exam, this is clear, and that is why we need to draw conclusions, and, therefore, work in this sense with our allies, with the leadership of the country, the most important thing for ourselves within the country, to be clearly defined, what a security issue one must always stay ahead of everything, and then everything else is profitable, there will be no safety, economy will not help there. everything else , we will not solve the social issue, and in general the question will be whether the state will exist, because a war, especially with such a country, which is the aggressor country russia, has such consequences for us, and the enemy sets exactly this kind of goals, that is, to destroy the state and destroy our people. thank you, mr. general, for the conversation, it was

ihor romanenko, general. armed forces of ukraine retired friends, we work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are currently watching us live on these platforms, please like this video to help it trend on youtube and facebook. well, take part in our survey. today we ask you the following question: should military personnel enter politics? yes, no, please vote on youtube, it's pretty simple, two options, or... please leave your comments below video, if you are sitting and watching us on tv, take your smartphone, phone and vote yes 0,800-211-381, no 0800-211-382, all calls to these are free and to these numbers are free, at the end of the program we will match here are the results of this vote. next, we are in touch with people's deputy of ukraine, former head of the security service of ukraine, valentyn nalyvaichenko. mr.

valentin, i congratulate you and thank you. you are with us today, i congratulate you on the new year, we thank each other, mr. valentine, with the new achievements of the main intelligence department of the ministry of defense today in russia's chelyabinsk at the shagol airfield , an su-34 tactical bomber burned down, we are talking about a special operation of the main intelligence department of the ministry of defense, and we are talking about the fact that this plane belonged to the aviation regiment. of course, as the russians write, the reasons for the plane catching fire are being clarified. what do you, mr. valentin, say about the special operations that we can and do on the territory of the russian federation, how extensive they can be and how much enemy losses can...