at the beginning of the beginning of the 23rd year and at the end of the 22nd year, how much the security service of ukraine published on its pages and in social networks, about how they were almost every morning somewhere in certain dioceses, in the orthodox church and conducted searches , we remember this story about pavel the abbot, the former abbot of the kyiv-pechersk lavra, he is currently under house arrest, will that be enough. now, according to you , the state is making efforts to localize this threat, because we understand that in history, when there are parishioners who go to of these parishes, we understand that they can be used, can always be used by those who manage church life in ukraine, and even more so if this church life is not simple, but it is connected with moscow, with the russian orthodox church. you know, i'm still

a supporter of a systematic and sufficiently flexible solution to this problem, not only purely administrative, it's very easy, you know, but let's just ban it, well, you ban it, yes, and we, in principle, the state goes this way , but in the second reading they have to vote, i i think that in the end they will vote on the relevant bill, but in my opinion , a decision must be made at the same time. and what to do with the millions of parishioners that you mentioned, millions, the active part is hundreds, well , very active, in particular those who were under the laurel, there are tens of thousands, there were several thousand under the laurel, and this is a potential risk, this a challenge, that is why we need well-thought-out , sequential, step-by-step actions, and not just a ban as such, so... zzzh, yes, it was easier than banning with

a religious issue, flexibility is still needed here, in particular, because for too long unfortunately, this is also a topic on which we will be evaluated, and unfortunately, this topic is already being used against us, in particular, by trumpists in the usa, and this is no secret, so i think that there needs to be sufficient flexibility here, but each case, did you mention kirill, this is an article, did you remember? this video appeared , a criminal case, the fact that the sbu began to actively work in the direction of the pcmp, there are already dozens of cases, and there are people who are already behind bars, in particular priests of the uocp, this, i think, is very important, and this trend it is necessary to continue so that everyone understands any solidarity with the country the aggressor, with kirill, the so-called patriarch, in brackets, yes, she must be punished, because there is a war, but... at the same time, it is necessary to decide what

to do with this church, how to transform it, because when the ocu, the orthodox church of ukraine, was created , and when this church received international recognition, it was a strategy, and the strategy is correct, and now we need to think with whom, in what way, in what forms to carry out the transformation of this church, and not just a formal ban, i agree, now it's like that... i used to be in peacetime there, i was very surprised , i will tell you, it is a center of ideological influence, and it is in the west of ukraine, in the ternopil region, it is a much more aggressive center of influence of the russian, russian, so-called world than even the pechersk lavra, why much more, and i think there are much more connections with moscow, so here we also need... strategy and tactics,

how to solve this problem, and not just , you know, take it in one fell swoop, ban it, i still think , that now the state has started to deal with this, but it is necessary that it consistent, but consistent, exactly steadfastly, continued this work to neutralize this problem not only now during the war, but also for the future. thank you, mr. volodymyr, mr. oleksiy, today's russians, who always boast that they are right-wing. famous and generally claim that they are the heirs of the kyiv movement and generally claim these traditions for kyiv and other cities of ukraine, they say that in general it is all ours, so they reported, today they said that on orthodox christmas to their more than 1,400 thousand people came to the temples, i.e with... such a number of residents of russia, only 15

million there, well, almost 15 million came to the temples, in 2020 they reported to the temples. 2,300,000 believers came, is it possible, in the context of uoc-mp ties and the importance of the uoc-mp for the russian orthodox church, to say that russia is everything, that russia is an orthodox state, i.e. is this not an exaggeration? because without the uocnp without this part that can transform into some other church. well, for example, the ocu, well, if it becomes part of the ocu, then orthodox russia will simply cease to exist? well, this is a difficult question, you know, no the answers are so clear, russia, well , these are absolute facts that have always been known, in ukraine

church goes more often than in russia, does this speak well of us, i don’t know absolutely, because there are explanations that are very simple for me, yes, russia is more urbanized country than ukraine. and logically, with urbanization, there is this gap between such visits to the church, which are part of some kind of tradition, which is supported by peasant culture. is the orthodox church ideologically stuck in russia? yes, it is, right here it is not about god, no about religion, even so, it is about the fact that the russian orthodox church. the church serves the russian state, the russian empire, and part of this russian orthodox church is in ukraine, it is very simple, when conversations begin about god, there about religion, about canons, about everything else, well , this is a replacement of concepts absolutely, it is about a specific organization that needs

to be liquidated, mr. volodymyr and i do not quite agree that it is so easy to ban, it seems that even this is not easy to do in our country, i know again... the answer, why not so, because there are too many relationships in the russian orthodox church, so in ukraine there are a huge number of lobbyists in power, among deputies, among officials, queues, among law enforcement agencies and so on. well, listen, i am the only one who is very well-known, i will not name names, an orthodox figure, so to speak, yes, a businessman, once sent photos from the birthday of onufry, and. everyone stood, everyone stood, and the opposition in embroidered jackets, and with cossack mustaches, and turbans, and with everyone else stood, yes, this is the mafia, the mafia is connected, yes so to speak, with all our ruling class, so-called, both present and past, and beyond the past, throughout history, and of course,

their task is that one part tries to really fight against the orthodox church, the other part imitates this struggle, and there, as time will tell, they, they all want, this not only applies to the russian orthodox church, they all want to survive this period, so to speak, yes, and then there are about millions, about millions of parishioners - this is of course an exaggeration, but i participated in two processions of the orthodox church of this, yes, i was among them for many hours, i am such a horror, well, just a terrible level, this is a lot of stupid. anti-ukrainian, anti-semitic , and all that can be thought of, this is a huge mass, to a certain extent even unfortunate people, who are simply zombifying, simply zombifying, and the task of the state is to liquidate, of course, all those who are engaged in this, together

with the institute , which is engaged in this, that is, with the orthodox church, and with those people, just listen, they will find after a while, who cares about people who want to fall before a priest who... they will find the same priests in other, so to speak, branches of the orthodox church in ukraine, they will find them, but at least they do not work for the fsb, so to speak , therefore, with the people, with the population, i think, work will be carried out very simply in terms of just starting with them, they will go, some will go to the ukrainian orthodox church, some will go, maybe to some other religious organizations, and it will not be a problem, the problem is that... there is no such institute, it's just that it doesn't exist existed in ukraine. and i would, if someone would listen to me, but of course no one listens to me, so i would be as strict as possible , because i repeat once again that not solving this problem is a guarantee that these problems will be in the future. aristovych, there are many other

scoundrels, so to speak, they are already starting to work on this right now, and tomorrow we will all hug. wars, let's say, we all fought with putin, putin is bad, and the russians are our brotherly people, we are all from the same cradle, including in the religious plan, we need to be friends, peace. coexist and so on and there will be supporters, of course, of this idea, there are already ideologues of this idea, and in 20-30 years everything will start anew. there are people 's deputies who are in office today walking around the verkhovna rada of ukraine, shooting videos and actually promoting the russian orthodox church in ukraine. current people's deputies, what can be discussed further. i'm already, i'm already silent by the way, i'm literally 20 seconds, i'm silent, by the way, about... the fact that recently, remember this letter that was sent to stefanchuk from the people's

deputies of ukraine, there are more than 40 people's deputies of ukraine, and from different factions, who actually wanted to block the submission of this bill to the second reading, that is, the opposition is really great , there are indeed those who are in favor of banning it, and there are those who are silent , and there are those who today , even during the great war, the supreme... soviets of ukraine are directly drowning for the russian church and everything is fine, well, that is, they wanted to send this draft law to the venice commission and block the consideration of this draft law already in the second reading, volodymyr pru - putin, whom we have already mentioned, on the eve of christmas met with the families of the occupiers who died in the war in ukraine, the kremlin carefully selected everyone who attended the meeting with putin, in order to minimize the risk of uncomfortable questions. from their side , the western media are writing about it, let's look at a small

fragment, because it is quite revealing, i congratulate you all once again and wish you all the very, very best, now i will not talk about very delicate, difficult, maybe even things in the eve of the holiday that concerns your families, but i want to assure you once again, что... that is, he sent their fathers, their husbands to the war, they were killed there, then he smiles at them and says: i congratulate you on christmas, and we are here for your sake, let's reflect on it quite briefly, because it is clear , that putin is a bastard, and there shouldn't be any so-called... comments here, but this bastard skillfully manipulates, skillfully presents

it all, including to those whom he will take to the war with ukraine, mr. volodymyr, yes , here it must be taken into account that this is a sufficiently skillful propaganda action done, and in this case the goal is to identify with those who are fighting, with their families, to show... that the state is with you, the state will take care of you and so on, by the way, i will tell you, maybe, well, maybe it won’t be very pleasant for the audience , but we don’t have enough of that, just identification with those who are fighting, we have a certain division, some fight, others help the front, and others live an almost peaceful life , in russia they want... to concentrate social and

even political life as much as possible on the war, and that's it propaganda works for this, but putin should be the main center of this identification, so in this case, yes, it is a propaganda performance, accordingly, how we perceive it, of course, for the russian public i am afraid that it works, thank you, and we have to think about something else, about how to reach out, yes, we can completely distance ourselves from the russians there, they are all bad, and so on, but in order to win the war, both now and after its formal end, we have to work with russian society, and it is necessary in particular, to destroy this putin myth, that he is supposedly with the people, yes, takes care of them and so on, this is all a lie, in particular, by the way, some. e commentators draw attention to the fact that due to such production effects , putin still has his own complexes

, you remember when he first became president of the history of kursk, and there was a meeting with the wives of the dead, well then it was still unknown whether they died or not , although it was already de facto obvious, and even putin then, well, it was live, how did it end, well, a shame for putin, yes. and now they work only in the mode of a staged propaganda performance, so it is important for us to really show the russians through various channels, through which it is possible, evil. that it is putin who is the main source of death that comes to the russians , exactly, he is to blame for this, thank you, mr. volodymyr, mr. andriy, well, in fact, there is nothing strange, in what we saw, nothing extraordinary, first of all, we must understand , that there is currently an election campaign for

putin's election, in putin's election, we we understand, because this is not an election, it is a fake, and... of course, putin, his entourage, they are trying, even formally there from a propaganda point of view, to mobilize that russian society, which in principle, let's say so, as much as possible mobilized on these issues, but still emphasize once again that putin is with them, that this is a kind of holy war for russia, for the rashists, so that this is a war that is somehow equated with russian shrines, with russian holidays, with orthodoxy , that it is almost not a movement of orthodoxy there na na na ukrainian lands, to other lands, that is, in a complex, a complex approach to communication with the rashists, it really is absolutely correct,

and they, they perceive it, because it was like that, it is like that and it will be like that, and we are not going anywhere from this... we will not get away, because in reality with russian society, with the absolute majority, we will not take a few percentages there, or 5-10% there, who may perceive something differently, but it is exactly this approach to communicating with russian society, it is justified, and it will really have a certain response with those people and russian society, which in principle supports the war against ukraine in one way or another. therefore , well, we don't really see anything extraordinary here, we have what we have, thank you, mr. andriy, mr. oleksiy, well, in principle, what can i say here, everything is historical, i just don't share this naive view, regarding the russians, i'm tired constantly talking about this, i

lived in russia, i have part of russian blood, and communication, that is ... the russian people understand everything perfectly, there is no need to make morons out of the russian people, which is very bad for us, yes, what are we alone there idiots, morons, they all understand perfectly well, they understand it, we don't understand it, they want it, they want it, i remember it , since the 80s, they want us to die, we have to understand it finally, so that the question is not putin, but putin, if, if his people wanted the chinese dead, he would... fight the chinese, he feels very well about his people, and what he is doing now is absolutely, this is the logic of russian policy of russian, yes, this apocryphal famous toast of stalin in the 45th year, so that he owes the most to the russian people, because any other nation, after what they did at the beginning of the war, its rulers would throw

these rulers out, but this people forgives everything, because it wants, it wants to die. he wants, this is his meaning, so to speak , staying on this, on this planet, until we understand it, well, then we will not understand this communication at all, because we have communication, we perceive the russian people through latinina, p' yankovsky, there nevzorov and others, yes, this is not a russian people, i am not even talking about ethnic origin, this is not the russian people , the russian people - you need to communicate not with the moscow intelligentsia, yes, but you need to communicate with the people, that's how i communicated, yes... under the tula or in this one in penza to communicate, that's where to talk with the russian people, and there you will feel everything and the desire to be friends with ukrainians, and i am not going to say this now about putin, it is still the 90s, still the 80s, about hah, what i knew, i knew in russia, before that i have not heard such a word in kyiv, i am from kyiv, yes, about the fact that i am khahol, this is the first time i heard it in

a russian village 20 houses below tula. they called me kakhlyonok, because i was very small, kakhlyonok, you understand, and this was under the soviet union, under internationalism, despite the fact that we were all, well, supposedly one soviet people, thank you, we have to take a short break, we'll be back in a few minutes to the air, don't switch, it will be interesting later, there are discounts on parasites... voldarnytsia 10% in pharmacies plantain bam and savings. nothing has come out yet, not yet, it's a hoot. oh, normalect. honey, take normolact. normolact eliminates constipation. intestinal work, restores the amount of lacto and bifidobacterium, everything worked out, normolact and everything will work out, there are discounts on tosmai, 15% in pharmacies,

plantain, bam and savings. new york of the 19th century is luxury, scandals and intrigues. gilded age from hbo. watch all seasons of the exquisite drama in ukrainian with a subscription. turn on aristocratic on me. kratal contains natural components, cares. cares about your heart, kratal improves blood supply and the functional state of the myocardium, normalizes heart rate , increases physical and mental performance. kratal is a natural force for your heart friends, we are working live. we have today as guests volodymyr fisenko, andrii smolii and oleksiy holobutsky, they already started talking about putin, about the reaction of russians to ukrainians, heard the story about khahlyonko

holobutsky, mr. volodymyr wanted to add something, i apologize to mr. oleksiy, what is possible , a short reply, well, actually oleksiy, i had the same story, because my father, who lived most of his life in russia, was still soviet at that time. union, he was called khokhlo all his life, and what about my last name reacted, i won’t mention it, but the situation is roughly the same as it was in oleksiy’s, but russians are different, just like ukrainians are different, and there is a significant part, most of the russians are organically charged, who perceive imperial complexes, that’s right, really, yes, but we need to split this consensus. imperial, great power, we need to look not only there for moscow and foreign intelligentsia , there are normal people in russia itself, in particular in penza too, i know penza very well because

i spent part of my life there in penza oblast, so we have to work with them too, i 'm not so naive, yes, but if we perceive everyone as an enemy, we will have an eternal war, and it will be very difficult for us to defeat them, and if we can ... destroy this imperial unity from within, then we will have a chance. mr. andriy, at the expense of what can this imperial unity be destroyed, because mr. oleksii mentioned, mr. volodymyr mentioned, the experience of communicating with russians, i also had experience, a lot of communication with russians, because i grew up 30 km from russia in the sumy region, they were nearby, i saw how they live and how they drink and how they... are envious of what is in ukraine and how they run their economy, and then i was in karelia, that's exactly the part that is not in finland, and

russian karelia, and this struck me very much, because i was 20 years old, i came to a city where people received a salary, and the whole city was drunk, simply because of the fact that there was a salary, that is from small children to adults, i honestly don't even know what language to use with them. to speak, except the language of power, so that they understand that no you can kill ukrainians, you can't come to someone else's land, how to tell them this and how to explain and prove it to them? i will take a slightly different path, i believe that to begin with we should make it impossible for russia to take similar actions in ukraine, because until the moment when russia is informational, and russia is informational, unfortunately... all the years after the restoration of independence dominated ukraine, well except conditionally speaking, in the last years of 2014, let there be plus or minus, but still, in principle, in

ukraine there are essentially certain spheres where russia continues to exert informational pressure on us, i mean social networks, and, in principle, a cultural product of various kinds , and... after all, politics, in principle, there are also political figures who are still wreaking havoc in ukraine, that is, we must make sure that in ukraine there was no russia and russian influence, first of all, the russian world, whatever you want to call it, and only then, or at least parallely, maybe some specific actions of what mr. volodymyr says there, although i, for example, not particularly... i believe that ukraine is capable of this with its resources to do, if, if the united states of america actually joins in this, maybe

a part of the european... someone's union, informationally, media-wise, politically, maybe then there could be some minimal results, and then i don't believe in it, i don't believe in the fact that, in principle, this coalition can be a global one on, let's say, an informational, so to speak, subpoena in russia itself. we see that two years of full-scale invasion, and unfortunately, unfortunately, russia is even trying to expand its views somewhere out there on the terrain of the civilized world, so it's very difficult ... for me this is believed, yes, we have there , conditionally speaking, the same freedom marathon, yes , which is supposedly called to talk to the russians, is its condition today, its effectiveness is in great question, can we offer the russians some kind of media product , the same one, to communicate with them, as of now with our financial capabilities, it is practically impossible, we see that now in ukraine

even itself... russia offers ukrainians who are drugged by russian, still in ukraine, still its media and information product. here this is a problem that we should talk about today in ukraine, that russia is still bringing russian things to ukraine through its social networks, through its media outlets, and we are either turning a blind eye to it, or, conditionally speaking, helping it. or do nothing, this is the number one problem that we must talk about today, because in this way we will start to lose a part of ukrainian society in ukraine, which will be enveloped again by russian peace and russian cultural products, and this, unfortunately, is being done gentlemen, literally 30 seconds each, what to do in this situation, mr. oleksiu? well, first of all,

you need to understand that... as soon as the russians understand, will understand en masse, that ukraine, the problem is that they do not perceive us as a separate people, they do not perceive a separate civilization, as a separate culture, they do not perceive, and in principle, we gave all the ghosts for this, well, listen, what are you talking about about the 14th year, let's talk about today, which series was the most popular last year and the most him, so to speak, was scored in google searches in ukrainian, what series, russian? word kid, this is the whole answer to everything, to freedoms, to telethons, to the entire cultural program, to the 95th quarter, to everything, this is the answer clear and clear, and as long as the population will look at the word kid, moreover, people who in general well, it seems that they shouldn’t , it’s a different localization, different in principle, everything else , yes, they still watch, but as long as they watch, the russians will not let go of us, and the more we

try to understand them, through the fact that we are in their information space all the time, so with all these experts, everyone influencers, russian , series, product, intelligentsia, ballet, literature and so on, but until then they will always be with us, thank you, i am sure of this, it is so to speak, this is the task, the whole history, the whole meaning of russia in that imperial the version that has existed since the time of peter, yes, which was laid , unfortunately, by our... compatriots, yes, from the kyiv-mylan academy, the whole point is to stay in the same state with kyiv, you understand, because this is a standard, we have to finish simply, mr. volodymyr, if you invest in 20 seconds, it will be good, very good in short, well, firstly, we must stop the russians militarily, prevent them from winning the war, and preferably win this war for us, and secondly,

demonstrate our own success story. success of european ukraine, this will be the most effective influence, thank you, thank you, volodymyr fesenko, andriy smoli and oleksiy holobutsky were guests of our program today, thank you gentlemen, i would like to remind you that during the program we conducted a survey, we asked you friends about this, whether it is necessary to resume broadcasting of meetings of the verkhovna rada of ukraine during martial law, 91% yes, 9% no, this is the verdict program today, i say goodbye to you, the program was conducted by serhii rudenko, goodbye. there are discounts on deflu, 20% in psyllanyk, bam and oskad pharmacies. it is a good tradition, during the christmas holidays, to carol together with the picardy

terc. tickets on the concert uni website.