please smartphones and vote yes 0800 211381 no 0800 211382 all calls to these numbers are free, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. next , we have a diplomat, an expert on foreign and security policy of the center for defense strategies, oleksandr khara. mr. oleksandr, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening, mr. sergey, thank you for the invitation. mr. alexander, let 's start with north korea with... south korea, because even before the escalation on koreans, on korean land, in the general korean land, the situation, we talked about the fact that it may well be that the war in ukraine and the situation in the middle east will be pieces of a big, big picture, a puzzle, a big picture of hostilities on the territory planets on the planet, and these will be parts

of that great war, which, one way or another , will grow and new hot spots will arise around the world, but observing the behavior of kimchynin and his team in the last few days, what can you say if he is ready already before the war with south korea and is it in this case... in this case, they are parts of a big plan, where there will already be a third point, a hot spot on the planet, and it is not excluded that there may be a fourth if china and taiwan also reach this hot phase , well mr. sergey, you are absolutely right that the world has entered such, let’s say , a band of turbulence, and now a new world order, let’s say, is being formed, and it... will be formed due to conflicts,

let’s hope that before the third world war won't come if we talk about this person who is currently shown on the screens, of course, we don't know what's in his head, and like any, well, totalitarian leader, he can somehow misjudge the situation and resort to a conflict that can lead to completely unpredictable global events. consequences, but if we believe that he is more or less rational, and in principle, he showed that he is so, in 2012 he led the country, and during this time he did quite a lot to strengthen his position , and i mean the development of nuclear, let's say, components, and missile forces, that is literally in november of last year, they launched their satellite for the first time, well, actually... it is needed

in order to improve, let’s say, the components of rocket forces, but literally in november of last year, they launched their satellite for the first time, well, in fact, they need it for that , to improve, let's say, a large-scale conflict, he is not ready, by and large he would like to convert his growing power, nuclear and missile. in concessions from the international community, maybe he, like putin, is waiting for his arrival trump, because if you remember, they had this honeymoon, that is, they had very friendly relations, it is true that trump did not manage to achieve anything with kimchen, but there was such a rapprochement and such an attempt, he probably hopes that it will continue like this, but here there are other nuances, which we will not go into details, but you understand that, for example, the containment of china required gender. states have strengthened their presence and

building alliances in the indo-pacific region, including on the korean peninsula, to sufficiently powerful forces are found, which kimchynina usually wires, and that is why there is also a concept of the security dilemma in the theory of international relations, that is, if your adversary is getting stronger, then you also need to get stronger, and this is how this arms race begins and, in fact, is the main driver of this race. it is a perception of a threat from the other side, perhaps it is a false perception, but it pushes to quite specific decisions, which actually lead to a collapse, which means balance and possibly conflict. you know why i'm asking you this because i remember the events of 1940, when the so-called steel pact was signed between japan and... italy and germany, when

this military axis of evil was formalized, which in principle had its own interests, each country had its own interests, but they ... they formalized this military alliance , which then broke up already in the 45th year . introduce large-scale sanctions and total international the isolation of north korea and russia, although north korea is already isolated... don't you have the feeling that this was all, as kuchma said? yes, of course, you are right that there are completely similar situations, the only thing is, if we consider each element in this axis of evil, then we will see that they actually

have certain interests, some do not, well, by the way, but recently there was an expansion of brics, which means that, of course, the russian federation from the very beginning... considered it an instrument of geopolitical strengthening of itself itself, the use of other, shall we say , interests, the interests of other states, in order to destroy the world order, which was dominated by the united states, its allies, here, but if we say, we evaluate such key interests for russia, it is the destruction of the international system, because it unprofitable, russia cannot realize itself as a new empire if there is a powerful european union and nato on... th year, especially in the 22nd, to destroy this european unity, transatlantic unity, and to prove that they are some kind of power, in relation to north korea, i think

the most important thing is for them to survive, they would like a little more technology, well, to threaten the americans, but most of all they would like to , let's say, lifted the sanctions and they could ... enjoy all the benefits that can give, let's say, the legal status of possessing nuclear weapons, and such weapons that threaten not only the neighbors, but also the united states. if we talk about china, then china is mostly interested in internal stability, because there are problems of the economic order, and in fact we have seen that even these obedient chinese can go on strike, and for this they need american investments. and technology did not flee from china, they need to manage , let's say, relations with the united states, if it is impossible to improve them, and that is exactly why china, and china is the beneficiary of this system, that is, all this crazy economic growth that they have seen there in the last

30 -40 years, it was thanks to the international system that works now, but the chinese of course, they dream of becoming a great center again, perhaps over the power of more than... the united states, and they are quietly moving towards that, but actually, that is why it is formed this way, but their interests are different, and china will definitely not be interested in that a new conflict appeared on his, in his, let's say, underbelly, they don't want to have there, of course to have a united korea, because it meant the presence of the americans, and of course that they don't want to have a war there , because literally in the first week there will be just tens of millions of refugees on both sides. and they have to go somewhere, of course, that china will, it will need , to do something about it, i am not talking about the fact that such a conflict can cause the use of weapons, the oil of destruction by the parties, here, but on the other hand, the chinese will not i really like that the americans are strengthening there, but against the background

of threats from north korea, the americans have placed additional air defense and anti-aircraft systems there, and the chinese see this as including their limitations. ability to threaten the united states with its growing arsenal, they have about 300 warheads now, they want to increase to 1,000 by the 27th, it seems, by the year , that is, in fact, to enter this club of the largest nuclear powers in the world, that's actually how all these things are connected, and i don't think that china is interested now to do something, because he has a weak position, they are not yet ready, let's say, to return taiwan to its home port, of course. we will look at the results of the elections that are planned, i think it will not be encouraging results for the chinese, because even those who previously said that as soon as possible to unite with china, they are a little smaller, it is possible, maybe

there will be a balance between these pro-chinese and pro-independence, well, they are more precise, as they say about the status quo, they do not say that taiwan should be independent, but they do not want this rapprochement. the collapse of taiwan, as it happened with the same hong kong, that is why china will balance and we will see how carefully it will approach such emerging crises. around its borders, mr. alexander, this year, the election in the united states of america, the president of the united states of america, joe biden, called republicans in congress to act and approve additional funding, including more than $60 billion for ukraine after a 2024 government funding deal. now the republicans in congress must do their job, stop the threats, shut down. government and fulfill their primary responsibility to fund critical

homeland security priorities, including my additional request that it is time for them to act, joseph biden said. to you, as in this situation, mr. oleksandr, there will be development of events, if possible within a minute and a half, give a very brief answer. well, you know, literally over the weekend i also listened to... the interview of the speaker of the house of representatives, mike johnson, on the face the nation program, where he said that he wants people to vote for aid to ukraine, but he does not see it from the side of the biden administration a step to a meeting in order to do this means the usual reformation of the migration policy. by the way, he said a very interesting thing that when meeting with president zelensky, zelenskyy asked for it and said that it was very important from the point of view. war , as well as from the point of view of a signal of support, but from the point of view of zelenskyi, it is extremely necessary that

we receive this vote no later than february, that is, in principle , there is no date for the named named month, so i think, i hope that in january after all, this decision will be made, but biden will have to make certain concessions, because this is a real problem for the united states, 3,000 illegal immigrants in december. illegals crossed the border with mexico, and of course, it is actually a crisis, and he must make concessions and unblock aid to ukraine. thank you. thank you, mr. oleksandr, it was oleksandr khara, a diplomat. friends, we work live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. during the entire broadcast, we conduct polls. we ask you about whether it is necessary to resume broadcasts of meetings of the verkhovna rada of ukraine during martial law. voted for this minute. you see, in this ratio, 15 people in our country voted 91% yes and 9% no.

verdict by isergy rudenko, from now on in the new one two-hour format, even more analytics , even more important topics, even more top guests, foreign experts, inclusion from abroad, about ukraine, the world, the front, society, and also feedback, you can express your opinion at any time of the day with the help of a telephone survey, turn on and turn on, the verdict with serhii rudenko every weekday from 20 to 22 at espresso. greetings , friends, the verdict program is live on the espresso tv channel. my name is serhii rudenko, we continue our program, we continue our analysis of political events in ukraine. in the second part of the program, see uoc mp. returns to the laurel. meanwhile , putin celebrated christmas with the families of those

who were sent by death. mobilization 2024. what should the new mobilization law be? discussions in the parliament continue. media sociology. ukrainians want to watch broadcasts of the verkhovna rada, and the only telethon is losing its relevance. friends, we work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube platforms. and on facebook, if you are watching us there now, please put like this video, and also take part in our vote, today we ask you about whether it is necessary to resume broadcasts of meetings of the verkhovna rada. of ukraine during martial law? yes no. if you are sitting in front of the tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote. if you believe that such broadcasts are necessary. 0800-211-381. no 0800 211 382. vote, at the end of the program, we will sum up the results of this vote. all calls to these numbers are

free for you. i would like to introduce the guests of today's program, they are political scientists, political experts, volodymyr. andrii smolii, oleksiy holobutskyi. gentlemen, i congratulate you, thank you for starting the new year with the tv channel spresso with the verdict program. good evening, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. good evening. good evening. congratulations, mr. oleksiy. gentlemen, let's start our conversation precisely with the survey, because since we are asking our viewers about whether we need to broadcast the meetings of the verkhovna rada of ukraine, which have been canceled, by the way, in 2022, the year with the beginning of martial law, what do you think, whether it is necessary to broadcast to citizens ukraine's parliament sessions and what citizens lose when they do not hear these discussions in the session hall, or whether the logic of how certain

decisions are made in the verkhovna rada of ukraine is generally understood. mr. andriy, let's start with you. i think so, i think so. that the meetings of the verkhovna rada of ukraine should be broadcast, at least if there is some warning there, perhaps regarding air alarms, regarding the issues of attacks by the russian federation there, yes, then i think that such broadcasts can be carried out there, let's say with an offset there by one, two or three hours, i.e., but in general, we must understand that it is necessary to broadcast the meeting of the verkhovna rada of ukraine during the time available to our citizens, for this there is a whole tv channel called rada. we have a tv channel that , in principle, i don’t know, it has been there for probably more than 20 years, it was created in principle to cover the activities of the verkhovna rada of ukraine, to broadcast its meetings, to to interview people's deputies, in order to

broadcast the meetings of the committees, in the end, for that people should know about the activity in principle. our people's elected representatives, we all know that the tv channel rada is not currently performing the function it should perform, it is participating in a telethon of the only news, yes, but less so, the fact that this tv channel should broadcast the meeting, and that is not enough not be at night, but it should be at a normal available time, that is, it can be prime time, it can be daytime, i say again, if there are any delays. there are some questions maybe about there an attack of some kind or some danger, it it can be done with a certain delay, but it must be done on the same day when the verkhovna rada is held, it must be done, and i say again, at an available time, not at night, it must be done so that people can see the meeting

from a to i. thank you, mr. andriy, mr. volodymyr, yes, it should be restored, but on the record. and based on security issues, and i think that not even there in an hour or two, but because, well, if the verkhovna rada works during the day, then in an hour it will be restored, well , it will be obvious that this is, let's say, a potential goal, therefore, for security reasons, it should be recorded , it’s okay that it will be recorded, the main thing is that it should be, i will say more, i am very dissatisfied with how to open... the website of the verkhovna rada, most of the information there is closed, here abnormal, because the control over the work of the verkhovna rada is primarily carried out by specialists, journalists, and the active public, and it carries out this meaningful control not so much through the broadcast of the verkhovna rada, it is for the general public, i will tell you, in fact,

the ratings have never been high enough and now, well, maybe except for the law. about mobilization will also not be high, but the broadcast is necessary, and it is necessary to have access to the normal work of the verkhovna rada website, and most importantly, it is necessary to immediately restore the admission of journalists to the verkhovna rada , restore accreditation, this is from the point of view of control, publicity, i think , which is the first priority, thank you, mr. volodymyr, mr. oleksiy, no, of course for the broadcast, at least we have to pretend that we are a democratic state, if it is not such, at least for our western sponsors, at least some idea that we have other institutions in the country besides the office of the president. which are working, yes, judging by the fact that we have not seen the broadcasting of the verkhovna rada and we have not seen political activity for two years,

well, i do not see what problem we have solved with this , at least some problem, what a security problem, but i think that our deputies have a better chance of getting to the bomb shelter than the residents of, let's say, i don't know, kharkiv or other cities, that is, i don't see the issue of security here at all, but... these are the buildings under which a huge network of various underground passages, in addition to the bomb shelters themselves, then this is not a problem, i remember, i myself, so to speak, in the 90s walked along these passages and, well, i think that , again, it is much easier to solve , rather than depriving ukrainians of some, although, i repeat, wants an imitation of political life. thank you, mr. oleksiy, gentlemen, i don't know about you, but i, for example, was very confused when i saw the christmas liturgy on january 6

, which was held in the kyiv pechersk lavra by the metropolitan of the russian orthodox church, ukrainian orthodox church, onufry, in the church the name of the reverend hapit of pechersk, of the holy cave, holy assumption of the pechersk lavra of the country. there was an omnibus , and that is, before that manufry addressed his parishioners, spoke about the enemies, i also listened to his speech, he spoke about the enemies, he did not say a word about the russians , he did not say a word about putin, that is, he did not name them, did not articulate them, who are the enemies, which also raises a lot of questions, whom he considers enemies, this is also a question, because the decision regarding this church, regarding staying in... in the pochersk lavra was adopted in the spring of the 23rd year, they were supposed to move there from part of the premises of the kyiv-pochersk lavra, this did not happen, part of the people remained there, the monks

are also still there. branch of the russian orthodox church in ukraine that it continues to work. in ukraine, two years of the great war, 10 years of the russian-ukrainian war, no decision has been taken to ban the activities of this church or to reformat the work of this church, and in fact , we see that in the center of kyiv, in the kyiv-pechersk lavra, this church is working, and the question of how long it will work and whether or not this question has become overripe as to... about the future of this church, mr. andriy, well, i am generally concerned about what the russian orthodox church is actually doing in ukraine, mr. serhiy,

so i will be here so to speak, to articulate the issue that in fact, in fact , metropolitans or representatives of the russian orthodox church in ukraine, let's say yesterday, the day before yesterday, there are a huge number of videos, by the way, there in social networks, they mention cyril again. let me remind you that kirill gundyaev is in fact one of putin's closest allies, including in the war against ukraine, they de facto continue to quietly promote this russian peace, they continue to hold their services not only in the kyiv-pechersk lava, let's be to talk about other ukrainian shrines, there is, for example, the same pochaiv lavra in ternopil oblast. which, well, unlike the kiev-pechersk lavra, it is in fact completely subordinated to the russian orthodox church today, in fact completely, there, if i am not mistaken, some

only a small part of it was transferred back to the state ownership of the state control, there is the sviatohirskaya lavra, there is a huge number of other religious buildings in ukraine, which today are used de facto in russian. a glorious church, and this is not only communal property, this is state property, this is communal property, this is also private property, that is, all types of property, please, whatever they want, they do, and here the question really arises for the kyiv-pechersk lavra , why still, despite the fact that almost a year has passed since the the contract was terminated, these people continue to be de facto in state property absolutely illegally and there are no claims against them for any reason, well, there are claims, but we do not see any specific... actions, and in the end, let's get to the main question, why the russian the orthodox church in ukraine, no matter what it is called there, has not been banned yet, which is why there is still no definitive answer. the reading

of the adopted profile law, which would prohibit or regulate, at least in some way put into some framework this this actual church in one way or another, if it can be called that, that is, these issues, unfortunately, there are a lot of them, and unfortunately, those actions, correct actions, which are really, which were really declared, which were, which were initiated there at the end of the 22nd year, in particular by the council of national security and defense, which started in... at the beginning of the 23rd year, for some reason, as of now , these actions are on such a pause, and it looks really sad, because these people continue their anti-ukrainian activities, we see how the security service of ukraine actually every week exposes these persons who are in one way or another affiliated with the russian regime, with russia, we see that there are already court cases, we see that dozens of criminal cases are open.

regarding, in particular, high-ranking persons in the so-called moscow patriarchate, all this proves one thing: we cannot keep the russian orthodox church in the form it is in the country today, no matter what it is called, we can no longer tolerate it in fact this russian peace, if it continues to happen, it will happen, what will happen, they will continue to sit in the lavra, they will continue to sit in the pochaiv lavra, they will continue to mention kirill, and what’s next, well, we already know in fact what they did, how they did, how they acted, are acting and will continue to act, if their activities are really not brought to the current requirements, the current time, martial law, here i absolutely believe that there should be no questions, so we still expect from the verkhovna rada of ukraine, from the people's deputies, we expect that there will be a truly balanced draft law, before...

or the draft law that was adopted in the first reading, it is quite weak, it is needed to finalize, i don't know at what stage it is today, but the fact that today we need such a bill and we need a really powerful bill that will regulate this issue, that will not leave a loophole, that will do everything to make this impossible, in fact, this is the promotion of russian peace , well, this is a fact, and this is a requirement of today's society, and it is actually unifying. took place on the territory of the kyiv-pechersk lavra, the general director of the spas tv channel, boris karchevnikov, a russian, literally wrote the following: a genuine na...