we expect from the verkhovna rada of ukraine, from people's deputies, er, we expect that there will be a really balanced bill, by the way, the bill that was adopted in the first reading is quite weak, it needs to be revised, i don't know which one is there today this is at a stage, but the fact that today we need such a bill and we need a really powerful bill that will settle this issue, that will not leave loopholes, that will do everything to make this actually impossible ... the promotion of the russian world, well, that's a fact, and this is the demand of today's society, and this a unifying factor, actually today, thank you, mr. andriy, literally after this divine or christmas liturgy took place in the territory of the kyiv pechersk lavra, the general director of the spas tv channel baris karchevnikov, a russian, wrote literally the following: a genuine na... . on their

pages and on their pages and in social networks about how they were almost every morning somewhere in certain dioceses in the pcp and conducted searches, we remember this story about pavel the abbot, the former abbot of the kyiv-pechersk lavra, he is currently under house arrest, do you think the state is doing enough now ? in order to localize this threat, because we understand that in history, when there are parishioners who go to these parishes, we understand that they can be used, can always be used by those who manage church life in ukraine, and even more so, if this church life is not simple, and it is connected with moscow with the russian orthodox church, you know, i am... a supporter of a systematic and

sufficiently flexible solution to this problem, not only purely administratively, it it's very easy, you know, but let's just ban it, well, you will ban it, yes, and we, in principle, the state is taking this path, but in the second reading they have to vote, i think that in the end they will vote on the corresponding bill, but in my opinion, in parallel , it is necessary to decide, what to do with the millions... about which you mentioned millions, the active part is hundreds, well, very active, in particular those who were under the laurel, these are tens of thousands, there were several thousand under the laurel, and this is a potential risk , it's a challenge, so it takes thoughtful, consistent step-by-step action, not just ban as such, but opzzh yes, it was easier to ban. with the religious issue

, flexibility is still needed here, in particular because , unfortunately, this is also a topic on which we will be evaluated, and unfortunately, this topic is already being used against us, in particular by the trumpists in the usa, and it is no secret, therefore , i think that sufficient flexibility is needed here, but every case, they mentioned kirill, this is an article, they remembered, this video appeared, a criminal case. the fact that the sbu began to actively work in the direction of the pcmp is already dozens of cases there are, and there are people who are already involved, in particular the priests of the ocp, this, i think, is very important, and this trend should be continued so that everyone understands that any solidarity with the aggressor country, with kirill, the so-called patriarch in quotation marks, yes, it should be punished because there is a war, but at the same time it is necessary to decide what to do with this church, as well as...

transform it, because when the ocu, the orthodox church of ukraine, was created, and when this church received international recognition, it there was a strategy, and the strategy is correct. so now you need to think, with whom, in what way, in what ways forms to carry out the transformation of this church, and not just a formal ban. according to pochaev, i agree, now it is such a mess, i was once there in peacetime. i was very surprised, i will tell you, there is a great center of ideological influence, and it is in the west of ukraine, in the ternopil region, it is a much more aggressive center of influence of the russian, russian so-called measure than even the pechersk lavra, why much more, and there i think , there are much more connections with moscow, so a strategy and tactics are needed here to solve this problem problem, and not just, you know...

to ban it in one fell swoop, but i still think that the state has started to deal with it now, but it needs to be consistent, but consistent, precisely to continue this steadily. work to neutralize this problem not only now during the war, but also in the future. thank you, mr. volodymyr , mr. oleksiy, today russians, who always boast that they are orthodox and generally claim that they are the heirs of kievan rus, and generally claim kyiv and other cities of ukraine from these traditions, they say that in general it is all ours, so they from... reported today they said that more than 1,400,00 people came to their churches for the orthodox christmas, that is , only 1.5 million people will come to such a number of residents of russia, there, well,

almost 1.5 million came to the churches, in 2020 they reported that 2,300,000 believers came to the churches, is it possible, in the context of the ties between the uoc-mp and the importance of the uoc-mp for the roc, to say that russia everything that russia is an orthodox state, that is, whether or not this is an exaggeration, because without the uoc mp, without this a part that can transform into some other church, well, for example, the ocu, well, become a part of the ocu. will orthodox russia simply cease to exist? well, this is a difficult question, you understand, there is no such clear answer, russia, well, these are absolutely facts that have always been known, in ukraine there are more churches than in russia. whether this speaks well of us, i do not

know, absolutely, because there are explanations that are very simple for me, that is, russia is a more urbanized country than ukraine. and logically, it happens with urbanization. this gap between such and such visits to the church that enter in some tradition, yes, which is supported by peasant culture, and whether the orthodox church is a strict ideological russia, yes, it is , here it is not about god, not about religion, even, it is about the fact that the russian orthodox church serves the russian the state, the russian empire. and a part of this russian orthodox church is in ukraine, it is very simple, when conversations begin about god, there about religion, about canons, about everything else, well, this is a replacement of concepts absolutely, we are talking about a specific organization that must liquidate, mr. volodymyr and i do not

quite agree that it is so easy to ban, it seems that even this is not easy to do in our country, i know the answer again, why not, because it is too bad. there are many relations in the russian orthodox church, so in ukraine there are a huge number of lobbyists in power, among deputies, among officials, among law enforcement agencies, and so on. well , listen, i am the only one who is very well known, i will not name names, an orthodox figure, so to speak, yes, a businessman, once sent photos from onufry's birthday, everyone was standing there, everyone was standing, and the opposition, vyshyvanka. and they stood with the cossack zus, and the schubs, and with all the rest, that is the mafia, the mafia is to be connected with all our ruling class, the so-called , both present and past, and beyond the past, throughout history, and of course, their task

, one part is trying to really fight against the orthodox church, the other part is imitating this struggle, and there as time will tell, they, they all want, this is not only about the russian... orthodox church, they all want to survive this period, so to speak, yes, and then, about millions, about millions of parishioners, this is of course an exaggeration, but i took part in two processions of the orthodox church of this, yes, i was among them for many hours, i am so horrified, well, it's just terrible , it's a stupid, anti-ukrainian, anti-semitic nonsense. well, everything that can be thought of, this is a huge mass, to a certain extent even unfortunate people, yes, who simply commit suicide, simply commit suicide, and the task of the state is to eliminate, of course, all those who engage in this together with the institute, which are engaged in, that is, with the orthodox church, and with

those people simply, listen, they will find after a while who people who want to fall in front of a priest who drives a lexus, they will find the same priests in... the orthodox church in ukraine, they will find, but at least they don't work for the fsb, so to speak, so with the people, with the population, i think, it will be very simple. work in terms of simply starting with them, they will go, some will go to the ukrainian orthodox church, some will go, maybe to others some religious organizations, this will not be a problem either, the problem is that this institute does not exist, simply that it does not exist in ukraine, and i would, if someone would listen to me, but of course no one listens to me, then i would of course, as tough as possible, because i repeat once again that not solving this problem is a guarantee that these problems will be in the future, there are many other

scoundrels, so to speak, they are already starting to work on this, already now, and tomorrow we we will all hug each other after the war and let's say, we all fought with putin, putin is bad, and the russians are our fraternal people, we are all from the same cradle, including religiously, we must be friends, peacefully coexist and so on, and there will be supporters, of course these ... ideas, there are already ideologues of this idea, and in 20-30 years everything will start anew, there are people's deputies who are active, who today walk around the verkhovna rada of ukraine, shoot videos, and actually promote the russian orthodox church in ukraine, active people's deputies, what can be discussed further, i'm already, i'm already silent by the way, i literally 20 seconds, i am silent, by the way, about the fact that recently, remember this letter. who was before stepanchuk from the people's deputies of ukraine, there are more than 40 people

's deputies of ukraine, and from different factions, who actually wanted to block the submission of this bill to the second reading, that is , the opposition is really great, there are really those who are in favor of banning , there are those who are silent, and there are those who today, even during the great war, in the verkhovna rada of ukraine, are directly drowning for the russian church and everything is... normal, well that is, they wanted to send this draft law to the venice commission and block the consideration of this draft law already in the second reading, volodymyr pru- putin, whom we have already mentioned, on the eve of christmas met with the families of the occupiers who died in the war in ukraine, the kremlin carefully selected the families , who attended the meeting with putin in order to minimize the risk of awkward questions or words from their side, write about it in favor.

that is, he sent their fathers, their husbands to war, they were killed there, then he smiles at them and says: i congratulate you on christmas, and for your sake, we are here, let's briefly reflect on this, because it is clear that putin is a bastard, and there should not be any kind of comments here, but this bastard is capable. manipulates, skillfully presents all this, including to those whom he will take to the war with ukraine, mr.

volodymyr, yes, here it must be taken into account that this is a propaganda action, quite skillfully done, and in this case the goal is to to identify oneself with those who are fighting, with their families, to show that the state is with you, the state will be about you... and so on, by the way, i'll tell you, maybe, well, maybe it won't be very pleasant for the audience, but we don't have enough of that, just identification with those who are fighting, we just had a division, it's certain, some fight, others help front, and others live an almost peaceful life, in russia they want to concentrate as much as possible... social and even political life on the war, and

propaganda works for this, and putin should be the main center of this identification, so in this case yes, this is a propaganda performance, according to how we perceive it of course, i'm afraid that it works for the russian public, thank you, and we have to think about something else , about how to reach out, yes, we can completely distance ourselves there from... distance ourselves from the russians, they are all bad, yes, and so on , but in order to win the war, both now and after the formal end, we need to work with the russians. society, and it is necessary, in particular , to destroy this putin myth that he is supposedly with the people, yes, cares about them and so on, this is all a lie, in particular, by the way, some commentators draw attention to the fact that because such staged effects, putin still has his own complexes, you remember when

he first became president of the history of kursk, and there was a meeting with... the wives of the dead, well then it was still unknown whether they died or not, although it was already de facto obvious, yes, and putin then, well , it was live, how did it end, well, a shame for putin, yes, and now they work only in the mode of a self-staged propaganda spectacle, so it is important for us to really demonstrate to the russians through various channels, through which it is possible, the evil of war, which is putin is the main source. death, which is coming to the russians , exactly, he is guilty of this, thank you, thank you, mr. volodymyr, mr. andriy, well, in fact, there is nothing strange in what we saw, nothing extraordinary, first of all, we must understand that the pre-election campaign is taking place now putin's election campaign , well, we understand putin's election, because it's not an election, it's a lie, and

of course that putin, his entourage... it 's trying, even formally there from a propaganda point of view, to mobilize that russian society, which in principle, well and so we will say the maximum mobilized on these issues, but still emphasize once again that putin is with them, that this is a kind of holy war for russia, for the rashists, yes, that this is a war that is somehow equated with... shrines with russians, with russian holidays, with orthodoxy, that it is almost not a movement of orthodoxy over there on ukrainian lands, on other lands, that is, in a complex complex approach to communication with the rashists, it really is absolutely correct, and they, they perceive it, because it was

so it is, and so it will be, and we will never get away from it, because in reality it is from russia. a society with an absolute majority there, we will not accept a few percent or 5-10% there, who may perceive something differently, but this approach to communicating with russian society is justified, and it will really have a certain response among those people and racist society, which in principle supports the war against ukraine in one way or another, so we don't see anything extraordinary here, we have what we have, thank you, mr. andriy, mr. oleksiy, well, in principle, what can i say here, everything is historical, i just do not share this naive view, regarding the russians, i am tired of constantly saying this, i lived in russia, i i am part of the russian blood and communication, that is

, the russian people understand everything perfectly, there is no need to make some kind of morons out of... the russian people, it works very badly for us, yes , there are some idiots, some morons, they understand everything perfectly, they , we don't understand, they want it, they want it, i remember it from 80s, they want us to die, we have to understand this finally, so that the question is not putin, but putin, if, if his people wanted the chinese to die, he would fight the chinese, he perfectly feels his na... and what he is doing now is absolutely, this is the logic of russian politics, russian, yes, this apocryphal famous toast of stalin in the 45th year, so that he owes the most to the russian people, because any other nation, after what they had done at the beginning of the war, their rulers would have thrown these out rulers, but this people forgives everything,

because it wants, it wants to die, it wants, this is its meaning, so to speak, staying. on this, on this planet, until we understand it, well, then we will not understand this communication at all, because we have communication, we perceive the russian people through latynina, piankovsky, there nevzorov and others, so it is not the russian people, i i'm not even talking about ethnic origin, it's not the russian people, the russian people - you don't have to communicate with the moscow intelligentsia, yes, but you need to communicate with the people, that's how i communicated there under the tula or in this penza. to forge, to talk with the russian people there, and there you will feel everything, and the desire to be friends with ukrainians, and i will not say this now about putin, this is still the 90s, still the 80s, about ... , i knew in russia , i had never heard such a word in kyiv before, i am from kyiv, yes, about the fact that i am khahol, this is the first time i heard it in a russian village of 20 houses, under a tula,

kakhlyonok, or i was called very small, hakhlyonah, you understand, and that's why the soviet union, with internationalism , with the fact that we were all, well, supposedly one soviet people, that's all, thank you, we have to take a not... a little break, we'll return to the air in a few minutes, don't switch, it's going to be interesting.

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live, today we have guests volodymyr fisenko, andrii smolii and oleksiy holobutsky, they have already started talking about putin, about the reaction of russians to ukrainians, they heard the story about khakhlyonko holobutsky, mr. volodymyr wanted to add something. i apologize , mr. oleksiy, that is possible, a short reply, well, actually, oleksiy, i had the same story, because my father, who lived most of his life in russia, then still the soviet union, his whole life my name was khokhlo, i won't remember how they reacted to my last name, but the situation is roughly the same as oleksiy's, but russians are different, just like ukrainians are different. and there is a significant part, most of the russians are charged organically, which perceives imperial complexes, yes, indeed, yes, but we need to split

it, this imperial, great-power consensus, we need to look not only there, the intelligentsia of moscow and abroad, in russia itself there are normal people, in particular in penza too, i know penza very well because i spent part of my life there in penza oblast, so... we have to work with them too, i'm not so naive, uh, yes, but if we perceive everyone as an enemy, we will have an eternal war and it will be very difficult for us to defeat them, and if we we will be able to destroy this imperial unity from the inside, then we will have a chance, mr. andriy, at the expense of which we can destroy this imperial unity, because mr. oleksiy mentioned, mr. volodymyr mentioned the experience of communicating with the russians, i also had experience. a lot of communication with russians, because i grew up 30 km from russia in the sumy region, they were there nearby, i saw how they live and how

they drink and how they envy what is in ukraine and how they manage their economy, and then i was in karelia, this is exactly the part that is not not in finland, but russian karelia, and it really struck me, because i was 20 years old, i... i came to a city where people received a salary, and the whole city was drunk, just because of the fact that there was a salary, that is, from small children to adults, i honestly do not even understand what language should be spoken with them, except the language of power, for so that they understand that you can't kill ukrainians, you can't come to someone else's land, how to tell them this and how to explain and prove it to them, i'll go a little different way. i believe that, to begin with, we should make it impossible for russia to take similar actions in ukraine, and because until the moment when russia

informationally, and russia... informationally, unfortunately, all the years after the restoration of independence dominated ukraine, well, except relatively speaking, in the last years of 2014, let there be plus or minus, but still, in principle , in ukraine there are essentially certain areas where russia is further continues to put informational pressure on us. i mean social networks and, in principle, a cultural product of various kinds. and ultimately politicians, in principle there are also political figures who are still wreaking havoc in ukraine, that is, we must make sure that there is no russia and russian influence in ukraine, first of all ruskavamir, whatever you can call it, and only then, or at least to be taken in parallel, perhaps for some specific actions of what

mr. volodymyr says there, although i, for example... do not particularly believe that ukraine is capable of to do it with their own resources, if , if, in fact, the united states of america joins in this, maybe a part of the european union, in terms of information, media, politically, maybe then there could be some minimal results, and then i don’t believe in it, i don’t i believe that, in principle, this coalition can be world-wide, let's say, informational, so to speak... in russia itself. we see that two years of full-scale invasion, and unfortunately, unfortunately, russia is even trying to expand its views somewhere out there on the ground civilized world. therefore, it is very difficult for me to believe it. yes, we have there , conditionally speaking, the same freedom marathon, yes , which is supposedly called to talk to the russians, whether its status today, its effectiveness is in great question,

whether we can ... give the russians some kind of product the media is the same, to communicate with them, as of now, with our financial capabilities, is practically impossible. we see that now in ukraine , even russia itself offers ukrainians who are drugged by russian, still in ukraine, still its media and information product. this is the problem that we should talk about today in ukraine, that russia is still bringing russian things to ukraine through... its social networks, through its media outlets, and we either turn a blind eye to it, or help it, conditionally speaking, or not we do nothing this is the number one problem that we should talk about today, because in this way we will begin to lose part of the ukrainian society in ukraine, which will be enveloped again by

the russian peace and... gentlemen, literally 30 each seconds, what to do in this situation, mr. oleksiyu? well, first of all, you need to understand that as soon as the russians understand, they will understand en masse that ukraine, the problem is that they do not perceive us as a separate nation, they do not perceive us as a separate civilization, as a separate culture, they do not perceive us, and in principle we gave all the reasons for this. well listen, what are you talking about the 14th year? let's talk about today, which series was the most popular last year and was the most, so to speak, scored in google searches in ukrainian, which series? russian, the word boy, this is the whole answer to everything about freedoms, to telethons, to the entire cultural program, to the 95th quarter, to everything, this is the clear and clear answer, and as long as the word boy will be seen in the population, moreover

, people which in general, well, it seems... they should not , this, this is a different localization, different, in principle , everything else, yes, they still watch, but as long as they watch, the russians will not let go of us, and the more we try to understand them by the fact that we are in their information space constantly, so with all these experts, all russian influencers, series, product, intelligentsia, ballet, literature and...