yes, it was easier than banning it with a religious issue , flexibility is still needed here, in particular because , unfortunately, this is also a topic on which we will be evaluated, and unfortunately, this topic is already being used against us, in particular trumpists in the usa, and this is not a secret, so i think that sufficient flexibility is needed here, but every case, you mentioned kirill, this is an article, remember? this video appeared, a criminal case, the fact that the sbu began to actively work in the direction of the pcmp, there are already dozens of cases, and there are people who are already behind bars, in particular priests uoc, i think this is very important, and this trend should be continued so that everyone understands that any solidarity with the aggressor country, with cyril, the so-called patriarch in quotation marks, yes, it should be punished, because there is a war, but ... at the same time, it is necessary to decide

what to do with this church, how to transform it, because when the ocu, the orthodox church of ukraine, was created, and when this church received international recognition, it was a strategy, and the strategy is correct, so even now we need to think, with whom, how, in what forms to carry out the transformation of this church, and not just a formal ban. popechaev, i agree, now it's such a mess. i was once there in peacetime, i was very surprised , i will tell you, it is a center of ideological influence, and it is in the west of ukraine, in the ternopil region, it is a much more aggressive center of influence of the russian, russian, so-called world than even pechersk lavra, why is there much more, and i think there are much more connections with moscow, so here we also need... strategy and tactics,

how to solve this problem, and not just, you know, take it in one fell swoop, ban it, i nevertheless, i think that now the state has begun to deal with this, but it is necessary for it to consistently, but consistently, to continue this work in order to neutralize this problem not only now during the war, but also in the future. thank you, mr. volodymyr , mr. oleksiy, today the russians, who always boast that they are orthodox... generally claim that they are the heirs of the kyiv movement and generally claim kyiv and other cities of ukraine from these traditions, saying that in general, it's all ours, so here they are reported, today they said that more than 1,400 thousand people came to their churches for orthodox christmas, that is, with such

a number of residents of russia, only 1.5 million, well, almost 1.5 million came to the churches in 2020 they reported to the churches, 2,300,000 believers came, is it possible, in the context of the uocp ties and the importance of the uoc-mp for the russian orthodox church, to say that russia is all that, that russia... is an orthodox state, i.e. is this not an exaggeration, because without the uoc mp, without this part that can transform into some another church, well, for example, the ocu, well, become part of the ocu, then will orthodox russia simply cease to exist? well, this is a difficult question, you see, there is no such clear answer, russia, well, these are absolutely facts that have always been known. in

ukraine people go to church more often than in russia, does this speak well of us, i don’t know, absolutely, because there are very simple explanations, for me, yes, russia is a more urbanized country than ukraine, and logically, with urbanization there is this gap between such, well, visits to the church, which are part of some tradition, yes, which one is supported by peasant culture, but... is the orthodox church ideologically rigid in russia? yes, here it is not about god, not even about religion, it is about the fact that the russian orthodox church serves the russian state, the russian empire, and part of this russian orthodox church is in ukraine, it is very simple when they start conversations about god, there about religion, about canons, about everything else, well, this is a replacement of concepts, absolutely, we are talking about the concrete. well

, the organization that needs to be liquidated, i am with mr i don't quite agree with volodymyr that it is so easy to ban, it turns out that even this is not easy to do in our country, i know the answer again. "why not, because there are too many relationships in the russian orthodox church, so in ukraine, there are a huge number of lobbyists in power, among deputies, among officials, in turn, among law enforcement agencies and so on, well listen, i am the only one who is very well known, i will not name names, an orthodox activist, so to speak, yes, a businessman, once sent photos from onufry's birthday, everyone was there, everyone stood, and the opposition in vyshyvankas, and with cossack boots, and with turbans and with everything else stood, right? this is the mafia, the mafia is connected, so to speak, with all of our ruling class, so -called, both the present and the past and beyond the past, and throughout history, and of course,

their task is that one part is trying to really fight the orthodox church, the other part imitates this struggle, and there, as time will tell, they, they all want, this does not only apply to the russian orthodox church, they all want to survive this period, so to speak to say, yes, and then, about millions, about millions of parishioners - this is of course an exaggeration, but i took part in two processions of the orthodox church of this, yes, i was among them for many hours, i am such a horror, well, just a terrible level, this obmasa is stupid. anti-ukrainian, anti-semitic , and all that can be thought of, this is a huge mass, to a certain extent, even unfortunate people, yes, who are just zombifying, just zombifying, and the task of the state is to eliminate, of course, all those who are engaged in this, together

with the institute , which is engaged in this, that is, with the orthodox church, and with those people it's simple, listen, they will find after a while who the people who want to fall before the priest who travels. in lexus, they will find, the same priests are also in other, so to speak, branches of the orthodox church in ukraine, they will find, but at least these do not work for the fsb, so to speak, so with the people, with the population, i i think that the work will be carried out very simply in terms of starting with them, they will go, some will go to the ukrainian orthodox church maybe to some other religious organizations, and this will not be a problem, the problem is that there is no such institute, just that it does not exist in ukraine, and i would, if someone would listen to me, but of course i no one listens, so of course i would be as strict as possible, because i will repeat once again that not solving this problem is a guarantee that these problems will be in the future, there are many other

scoundrels in prison, so to speak, they are already starting on this to work, right now, and tomorrow we will all hug after... we won't say we all fought with putin, putin is bad , and the russians are our fraternal people, we are all from the same cradle, including religiously, we must be friends, peacefully coexist and so on, and there will be supporters, of course , of this idea, there are already ideologues of this idea, and in 20-30 years everything will start again, there are people 's deputies who are active, who are walking around the verkhovna rada of ukraine today, shooting... videos and actually promoting the russian orthodox church in ukraine, active people's deputies, about what can be said further. i'm already, i'm already by the way i am silent, i am silent for literally 20 seconds, i am silent , by the way, about the fact that recently, remember this letter that was sent to stepanchuk from the people's

deputies of ukraine, there are something more than 40 people's deputies of ukraine, and from different factions, who actually wanted to block and the presentation of this bill for the second time. reading, that is, the opposition is really great, there are really those who are in favor of banning it, there are those who are silent, and there are those who today directly, even during the great war in the verkhovna rada of ukraine, directly support the russian church and everything is fine, that is, they wanted to send this draft law to the venice commission and block the consideration of this draft law already in the second reading, volodymyr pru -putin, whom we already mentioned the day before... at christmas, he met with the families of the occupiers who died in the war in ukraine, the kremlin carefully selected the families who attended the meeting with putin in order to minimize the risk of awkward questions or words on their part, this is what the western media are writing about, let's see

a small fragment, because it is quite revealing, i congratulate you all once again and wish you i won't do all the best. talks about very delicate, difficult, maybe even things on the eve of the holiday that concern your families, but i want to assure you once again that... that is, he sent their fathers, their husbands to the war, they were killed there, then he smiles at them and says: i congratulate you on christmas, and for the sake of seeing you here, let's briefly reflect on this, because it is clear that putin is a bastard, and there shouldn't be any such... but this bastard skillfully manipulates, skillfully serves it all,

including those whom he will further take to the war with ukraine, mr. volodymyr, yes, here it must be taken into account that this is a propaganda action, quite skillfully done, and in this case the goal is to identify oneself with those who are fighting , with their families, to show that the state is with you, the state will take care of you and so on, by the way, i will tell you, maybe, well, maybe it won't be very pleasant for the audience, but in our this is not enough, precisely identification with those who are fighting, we have precisely a certain separation, some are fighting, others help the front, and others live an almost peaceful life, in russia they want to ... concentrate social and

even political life as much as possible on the war, and propaganda works for this, but putin should be the main center of this identification, so in this case, yes, it is a propaganda performance , according to how we perceive it, of course, for the russian audience, i am afraid that it works, thank you, and we need to think about something else, about how to... knock, yes, we can to completely distance themselves from the russians there, all of them bad, yes, and so on, but in order to win the war, both now and after its formal end, we need to work with russian society, and in particular we need to destroy this putin myth that he is supposedly with the people, yes , takes care of him and so on, this is all a lie, in particular, by the way, some... commentators draw attention to the fact that due to such staged effects, putin still has his own complexes, you

remember when he first became president of the history of kursk, and there was a meeting with the wives of the dead, well, at that time it was still unknown, they died or not, although it was already de facto obvious, yes, and putin then, well, it was live, how did it end, well, a shame for putin, yes, but... now they work only in the mode of a staged propaganda spectacle, therefore, it is important for us to really demonstrate to the russians through various channels, through which it is possible, the evil of war, that it is putin who is the main source of death that is coming to the russians, it is he, he is to blame for this, thank you, thank you, mr. volodymyr, mr. andriy , well, in fact , there is nothing surprising in what we saw, nothing extraordinary, first of all... we have to understand that now there is an election campaign for putin's election, well

, we understand putin's election, because it's not an election, it's a fake, and of course that putin, his entourage, it's trying, even formally, from a propaganda point of view, to mobilize this russian society, which in principle, let's just say, is maximally mobilized on these issues. but all the same , to emphasize once again that putin is with them, that this is a kind of holy war for russia, for the rashists, yes, that this is a war that is somewhere is equated with russian shrines, with russian holidays, with orthodoxy, that it is almost not a movement of orthodoxy there on ukrainian lands, on other lands, that is, in a complex. a comprehensive approach to communicating with the rashists, it is really absolutely

correct, and they, they accept it because it was like that, it is like that and it will be like that, and we will never get anywhere from this, because in fact with the russian society with the absolute majority, there we will not take a few percentages or 5-10% there, who may perceive something differently, but precisely in fact, this approach to communication with russian society... it is justified, and it will really have a certain response among those people and the racist society, which in principle supports the war against ukraine in one way or another. so , well, we don't really see anything extraordinary here, we have what we have, thank you, mr. andrii, mr. oleksiy, well, in principle, what can i say, everything is historical, i just don't share this naive view, regarding the russians, i tired of constantly talking about it, i

lived in russia, i have part of russian blood, and communication, that is... the people are all perfectly understands, we don't need to make morons out of the russian people, it works very badly for us, yes, there are some idiots, some morons, they all understand perfectly well, they understand this, we don't understand, they want it, they want it, i'm it i remember, since the 80s, they want us to die, we have to understand this finally, so that the question is not putin, but putin, if, if his people wanted the chinese to die, he would... he would hang out with the chinese, he has a great sense of his people, and what he's doing now is absolutely, it the logic of the russian policy of the russian, yes , this apocryphal famous toast of stalin in the 45th year, so that he owes the most to the russian people, because any other people, after what their

rulers did at the beginning of the war, would throw out these rulers over and over again, but this people forgives everything, because they want, they want to die. he wants, this is his meaning, so to speak, staying on this, on this planet, until we understand it, well, then we will not understand this communication at all, because we have communication, we are the russian people we perceive through latynina, piaankovsky , there nevzorov and others, so this is not the russian people, i am not even talking about the ethnic origin, this is not the russian people, the russian people - we need to communicate not with the moscow intelligentsia, yes, but we need to communicate with the people, here how i communicated there... with a crowd or in this penza to communicate, to talk with the russian people there, and there you will feel everything and the desire to be friends with ukrainians, and i will not say this now about putin, this is still the 90s, still 80 - those years, i learned about the fact that i was a khahol in russia, i had not heard of it before such a word in kyiv, i am from kyiv, yes, about the fact that i am khahol, i heard it for the first time in a

russian village 20 houses below tula. khahlyonok, they also called me because i was very small, khahlyonok, you understand the joke, and this is under the soviet union, under internationalism, despite the fact that we were all, well, supposedly one soviet people, that’s all, thank you, we have to take a short break, let’s come back a few minutes before the broadcast, don't switch, it will be interesting, hello, hello, woman, what to do when there is a liver, hello? hall must be taken, but what about bile? alohol, he and the liver and bile protects. natural components of alochol contribute to the normalization of liver and gall bladder. alohol with care and respect for the liver and gallbladder. pain can become an obstacle. walk up the stairs, not with my knees. for pain in the knees, try dolgit cream. long-acting cream relieves pain, reduces swelling

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normalizes intestinal function, restores the amount of lactobacilli and bifidobacteria. everything worked out. normal act and everything will work out. see this week in the collaborators program. a living traitor, how the rashists protect the main seller of novaya kakhovka. details regarding the rescue of the deputy head of novaya kahovka, vitaly hura. but who is responsible for propaganda among children in the occupied territories? this one? watch the collaborators program with olena kononenko on espresso tv channel on tuesday, january 9 at 5:45 p.m. verdict from rudenko, from now on in a new two-hour format, even more analytics, even more important topics, even more top guests, foreign experts, inclusion from border, about ukraine, the world, the front,

society, and also feedback, you can express your opinion at any time of the day with the help of a telephone survey, turn on and turn on, the verdict with serhii rudenko, every weekday from 20 to 22 at espresso. friends, we are working live, today we have as guests volodymyr fisenko andriy smuliy and oleksiy holobutsky, they have already started talking about putin, about the reaction of russians to ukrainians, heard the story about khakhlonko holobutsky, mr. volodymyr wanted to add something, i apologize, mr. oleksiy , what maybe a short reply, well, actually, oleksiy, i had the same story. because my father, who lived most of his life in russia, then still in the soviet union, was called khokhlo all his life, how my

surname reacted, i won’t remember, but it’s roughly the same situation as oleksia was, but russians are different, just as ukrainians are different, and there is a significant part, most of the russians are organically charged, which perceives imperial complexes. all this is true, indeed, yes, but we need to split this imperial, great-power consensus, we need to look for not only there are intelligentsia from moscow and abroad, there are normal people in russia itself, in particular in penza too, i know penza very well because i spent part of my life there in the penza region, so i have to work with them too, i am not so naive, yes, but if we perceive everyone as enemies, " we will have an eternal war, and it will be very difficult for us to defeat them, and if we can destroy this imperial unity from the inside, then we will have a chance, mr. andriy, at the expense of

what can destroy this imperial unity, because mr. oleksii mentioned, mr. volodymyr mentioned the experience of communicating with russians, i also had a great experience of communicating with russians, because i grew up 30 km from russia in the sumy region." they were close, i saw how they live, and how they they drink, and how they envy what is in ukraine, and how they run their economy, and then i was in karelia, this is exactly the part that is not not in finland, but russian karelia, and it really impressed me, because i was 20 years old, i came to the city, where i got a salary, people and everything the city was drunk, just from the fact that there was a salary, that is... from small children to adults, i honestly don't even understand what language should be spoken to them, other than the language of power, in order for them to understood that you can't kill ukrainians, you can't

come to someone else's land, how to tell them this and how to explain and prove it to them? i will take a slightly different path, i believe that to begin with, we should make it impossible for russia to take similar actions in ukraine. and because until the moment, as long as russia is informational, and russia is informational, on unfortunately, all the years after the restoration of independence it dominated in ukraine, well, except for the last years of 2014, let it be plus or minus, but still, in principle, in ukraine there are essentially one or the other spheres where russia continues to exert informational pressure on us i mean. social networks, and in principle a cultural product of various kinds, and in the end politics, in principle, are also political figures who are still causing discord in ukraine, that is, we

must make sure that there is no russia and russian influence in ukraine, first of all the russian world, whatever you want to call it, and only then, or at least in parallel, take on some certain... actions of what mr. volodymyr says there, although i, for example, do not particularly believe that ukraine is capable with its resources to do this, if, if the united states of america, maybe a part of the european union, will join in this, informationally, media-wise, politically, maybe then there could be some minimal results, and then i don't believe in it, i don't believe that in principle, this coalition can be. world according to, let's say, an informational, so to speak, subpoena in russia itself. we see that two years of a full-scale invasion, and unfortunately,

unfortunately, russia is even trying to... expand its views somewhere in the territory of the civilized world, so it is very difficult for me to believe that, so we have there, relatively speaking, the same the freedom marathon itself, yes, which is supposedly designed to talk to the russians, is its current state of effectiveness, in great question, can we offer the russians any product media, the same one, in order to communicate with them, as of now with our financial... possibilities, it is practically impossible, we see that now in ukraine even russia itself offers ukrainians who are drugged by russian, still in ukraine, still their media and information product, this is the problem that we should talk about today in ukraine, that russia is still bringing russian to ukraine through its social networks, through its media people, and we

either turn a blind eye to it, or, relatively speaking, we help or we do nothing. this is the number one problem that we should talk about today, because in this way we will begin to lose a part of ukrainian society in ukraine, which will be enveloped again by russian peace and russian cultural products, and this is already happening, unfortunately. gentlemen, literally 30 seconds each, what to do in this one? situation, mr. oleksiy, well, first of all, you need to understand that as soon as the russians understand, they will understand en masse that ukraine, the problem is that they do not perceive us as a separate people, they do not perceive us as a separate civilization as a separate culture is not perceived, and in principle we gave all the reasons for this, well, listen, what to talk about the 14th year, let's talk about today, which series was

the most popular and the most last year. he was, so to speak, killed by searching google in ukrainian, what series, russian, word of a boy, this is the whole answer to everything about freedoms, about telethon, about the entire cultural program, about the 95th quarter, about everything, this is the answer clear and clear, and while the word boy will be seen in the population, moreover, people who, in general, well i don't think they should, it's a different localization, it's different, in principle everything is different, yes, they're still watching, but for now they'll watch. they will not let go of us, and the more we will try to understand them by the fact that we are in their information space constantly, so with all these experts, all russian influencers, tv series, products, intelligentsia, ballet, literature and so on. until then, they will always be with us, i am sure of this, so to speak, this is the task, the whole history, the whole meaning of russia is in that

imperial to the version that has existed since the time of peter the great, and which was laid , unfortunately, by our compatriots, and from the kyvomygliano academy, the whole point is to stay in the same state with kyiv, you understand, because this is a hesitation, we have to finish, simply, mr. volodymyr, if you invest in 20 seconds, it will be good, very short, well, first of all, we have to stop the russians by military means, prevent them from winning the war, and... it is desirable to win this war for us, secondly, to demonstrate our own success story, success european ukraine, this will be the most effective influence, thank you, thank you, volodymyr fesenko, andriy smoliy and oleksiy holobutsky were guests of our program today, thank you gentlemen, i would like to remind you that during the program we conducted a survey, we asked you friends about whether we should resume broadcasts of the meetings of the verkhovna rada of ukraine during martial law, 91% yes, 9% no,

that's the verdict program. was today, i'm saying goodbye to you, the program was conducted by serhii rudenko, goodbye. news time on the espressu tv channel in the studio of iryna koval and just now about the most important things. the russians killed 33 people. the kyiv city military administration provided an update on the victims of the racist attack on december 29. on a fabulous premises in the shevchenkivskyi district, they found, i quote: signs of another dead person. the data was confirmed by the national police. let me remind you, on new year's eve, muscovites hit the capital with more than 30 rockets. the debris was damaged.

houses, cars, utility rooms.