[000:00:00;00] program, during the program we conducted a survey, we asked you about whether you trust the leadership of the verkhovna rada, now let's look at the screen, the results of the survey: 8% yes, 92% no, on youtube we have approximately the same ratio 8% yes , 92% no, i'm putting an end to that, it was a verdict program, congratulations serhii rudenko, i say goodbye to you and wish you all the best! on january 22, at 7:30 p.m., the vinyl agency will present taras chubai and songs sung by all of ukraine on the stage of the lviv opera. the special guest of the concert is the lviv men's academic college

dudaryk choir chapel. tickets for... live sound. new york of the 19th century is luxury, scandals and intrigues. gilded age from hbo. watch all seasons of the exquisite drama in ukrainian with a subscription. turn on aristocratic on mygogo. greetings, this is svoboda live, my name is vlasta lazur, the bill on mobilization submitted by the government of the country to the verkhovna rada has been returned to the cabinet of ministers for finalization. this was recently announced by the head of the servant of the people faction in the verkhovna rada, david arahamya. according to him , such a decision was made based on the results closed meeting with the military command, in

which the commander-in-chief of valery zaluzhnyi, minister of defense of ukraine rustem umyerov, leadership of the verkhovna rada, heads of factions and committees. there were many discussions, we understand the request of the military command and are ready to go to the meeting, but not all norms can be supported, some provisions directly violate human rights, some are not optimally formulated, this was openly told to the military command, but all the police forces understood and support the need mobile phones i will remind you that the bill on mobilization was submitted to the ukrainian parliament on december 25, 2023, among other things, the document proposes to lower the lower limit of conscription to 25 years, send out electronic summonses, and introduce restrictions for so -called evaders. earlier, at the final press conference in december , volodymyr zelenskyi said that the general staff of the armed forces of ukraine wants to mobilize 4,500,

450-500 thousand people in the near future. and although this bill was a government bill, it looks like not even all government officials agree with it. some ministers later came to the meeting of the security committee and asked not to approve the draft law in its initial form. he said that they voted for him at the government meeting, but did not agree. here, of course, the question arises, why did they vote then, did someone force them. individual people's deputies, mostly from the opposition, today stated that it is currently not clear in what way the bill on mobilization will be returned to the... government for revision, well, so that it would be quick and simple, and here i remembered how yesterday at on our air , the deputy for the voice roman lozynskyi stated that this draft law is allegedly, well, like a ball, deputies, government officials and the president, who is currently in the baltic countries, by the way, are throwing this document to each other, and no one can take it upon themselves, to take responsibility for such an unpopular step as mobilization. the question of what procedure will be used to return it to its authors still remains

open. no one yet knows what return mechanism his government needs to implement to make it quick and easy. as of today it turned out that so far this draft law has created more problems than it has solved. the lesson for the government is simple. it was necessary to work not only on speed, but also on quality. instead of a serious discussion, we are again offered crazy shows. the right-wing spokesmen throw out a stupid thesis, the military demands mobilization, not the army... the situation demands mobilization to save the country, because the war is ongoing, and the president, as the supreme commander, has to talk about it , attempts to hide from this topic will not help, if changes in order of mobilization, the president should submit such a bill. the more we drag with his acceptance, the longer our non-rotating guys are on the front lines. if the fighters are not able

to demobilize, they spring. and we will not win the war with an exhausted army. it's time to replace our soldiers and give them time to rest, adopt a balanced law and prevent unconstitutional norms, our task. as of today, we are working on it, and in the meantime, on the website of the parliament it is already noted that the cabinet of ministers has withdrawn its draft law on improving mobilization, military accounting and military service. we will talk about how this whole story will develop, and roman kostenko, people's deputy, voice faction, secretary of the committee on national security, defense and intelligence, joins our broadcast. good evening. good evening. well, what's next, roman? the government must now quickly and efficiently write a new draft law and re -register it on the website of the verkhovna rada and repeat everything again, is it possible for you to take any alternative draft laws that have already

been submitted by the deputies during this time? very difficult to answer that question, ulassa, given the way the day went today, today we first had a committee on this bill... it was supposed to be held yesterday evening, and we had to make some kind of decision, either to return it to the government, or to vote it in the first reading, yesterday it did not take place because there was a faction meeting and the leaders of the committees and factions wanted to talk to the military because there were a lot of questions about the bill and they didn't want to do it in such a way as to vote for that bill that yes, we broke up. and today we again had a committee scheduled for 10 a.m., again we came with colleagues and sat for a very long time, until almost 1 p.m., although the board meeting was supposed to start at 12 p.m., and we also did not

wait, so that a decision was made, what will happen, then we heard that the decision was made, that the government would withdraw it, we started talking about how it would be done, because there are alternatives, and now it will be very difficult for the government to introduce a bill. because there are alternatives, and something needs to be done about them, in fact, if he is going to introduce a new one draft law, we do not have these alternative draft laws, and according to the regulations, they already contain the same topic, and if there are such draft laws, it is no longer possible to introduce alternative draft laws to them, or any other similar draft laws, so the issues will already be legally covered here, but what i heard today in the council and what we talked about in the committee is the version that the authorities do not plan to introduce this bill to the parliament and it will now be on the agenda, there is another bill there 162 regarding digitization, regarding creation registers, they plan to vote on it

and then finalize everything else with the help of by-laws, there is also such information, to which i am leading, what to say now, how it will be, whether the government will submit it, or not submit it, whether it will be as i mentioned, very difficult because, going back to where i started, today everything changed in a day, well, times 10, probably that is why it is quite difficult to predict something now with the work that is offered to us, so there may be many options, which one will be chosen by the coalition or the government, whether government or office the president, it is difficult to predict, it is very , let's say, it is bad there, but in general, of course, this story... i don't want to say to scatter loud epithets, but you know, from the side it looks like the story ended a little shamefully, because at first the government submitted this bill, there were scandals, why exactly the government and not the president, then

the military communicated, i hope the roma, roman is in touch with us, yes, yes, then the military communicated, then the ministers came and said, no, we are against such a law, let's change it, and in the end, it was not even put to a vote, but from your point of view, why did everything happen the way it did, who and at what stage, what was missed, did not finalize and was ignored , maybe i don’t know, look, even, let’s say , politicians with experience, understanding what happened and the fact that he came back and the draft law submitted by the government, we see that, after all, somewhere his office was constantly trying to stay away from him, trying to overturn him. his on the military and on the verkhovna rada, but everyone understands why this is was done, and now this draft law that was given, let's say, went back to the government and did not pass, well, first of all, because there were dubious norms, which the deputies did not want

to vote for and there were no votes, i think it was accepted such things, on the other hand, i am very satisfied that it was the verkhovna rada that showed its subject. at the moment and showed that she is not ready to vote, well , even if we are talking about the servants of the people, she is not ready to vote for everything, so that they are not sent from the office of the president. we want this, vote, and this is a very good bell, i hope that it will be the same in the future, when we will vote for what the ukrainian people need, and not for specific individuals or leaders, and that the council must implement any bill so precisely, this also speaks of subjectivity , that's why when we talk about the fact that this bill was thrown around like a ball. here the issue was that it

was thrown to the verkhovna rada and the military and they wanted the verkhovna rada to take on the word mobilization as much as possible, let's say, the bill that was there. we are ready to take on any responsibility, because we, as the verkhovna rada , vote on mobilization every three months, and so that our viewers understand that we are currently mobilizing, this draft law, sending it to the government for revision is not a question... termination of mobilization, we have a law voted presidential decree on mobilization, it is going, these were some issues where we wanted to improve something at the expense of people's rights, or at the expense of some other issues, so we said that this would be constitutional, that no, let's see the norms clean it up, we are ready to consider it, that's why the mobilization is going on, we need to work, there are really many norms that are needed, they can be solved by presidential decree and decrees, directly by the cabinet, everything else that is legal, we

are ready to consider. and by the way, what should be the role of the president, already at this stage, because at the beginning, especially the representatives of the opposition accused him that he distanced himself, shifted everything to the government or the military, he himself does not comment on the draft law. should the president do something now? well, i am i think that the role is his, he is the supreme commander and... in law, mobilization is his responsibility, and he had and still has, his responsibility does not disappear anywhere, that is why he has the same duties, he is our supreme the commander-in-chief, he leads the country, he leads us on the battlefield, and this is his responsibility, that is, what should he do now, i did not understand whether to submit my bill or to take control of everything there with the help of decrees, look, if i... was the president, i would gather to myself again when

you remember, we said, i gave instructions to the general committee, i gave instructions to the minister of defense, in order for them to give me proposals, i would gather the government, the representatives who are responsible for this, the heads of the law enforcement agencies, i would listen to them and give specific proposals, i would say, there, for example, the ministry of defense, says that we need everyone to be on the record, we say, the minister of statistics, what is needed for this, the ministry of justice, what is needed for this, in order not to be violated people's rights, if we want to limit them, let's amend the law on martial law, because it is the only way to limit the rights of people during wartime, and so we should go to each department, set a task, do this there, something can be done by decree, something by law, work out these acts and communicate them, but first, i would do , that, i would gather all representatives of all political forces before this. and i would say, look, we have a question there, uh,

the bill on mobilization, this most important bill, i think for that convocation, out of 200 there in 19th, it is the most important that this council passed, to us it is necessary to work on it, take responsibility and make sure that our people are not afraid to join the army, that we do not violate their rights, while we have people who go with honor and with motivation to defend the country, and then everyone would work on it, not threw as you rightly said, the ball to each other, because someone wants, let's say, to be just a beautiful leader, and the responsibility should be in the scythe. but did i understand you correctly, that you said that the draft law that was returned to the cabinet of ministers for revision today is a sign that the parliament has demonstrated its subjectivity. did i understand you correctly, that there were risks that if the bill were put to a vote, it would simply not be voted for. look, i don't know all the schedules by votes, but

the mood in the parliament looked like this. i understood you. today, also against the background of discussions of this bill on mobilization in the verkhovna rada, signatures for the resignation of the speaker of the parliament ruslan stefanchuk began to be collected. this was also reported by representatives of the opposition. please explain, a what complaints do you have against stefanchuk, what did he not do? well, that's after. yesterday's, as i understand it, voting, when the regulations were violated there, including when the people 's deputies asked to put... according to the regulations, the draft law for the voting resolution on ms. maryana bezuglii, he refused one or more times there, because i came out, and it was a gross violation of the regulations, that is why the deputies blocked the podium yesterday, and today they started collecting signatures,

many signatures were collected, i did not see, i did not see this resolution, well, how many are there signatures, you didn't sign, i didn't sign, well, what then, by the way, mariana. zugla announced today that she has written a statement about leaving the servant of the people faction. yes, and what about her resignation from the position of deputy chairman from the position of deputy chairman of the security, defense and intelligence committee? the verkhovna rada should vote on it, the speaker should put it to the vote. the speaker refuses to put it , despite the fact that there are, i don't know, probably 10 people's deputies, i am now on the hook, directly, according to it. asked him about it he doesn't put it, and do you have an explanation why? well, no, no, he has to put it in accordance with the law, that is, according to the regulation, the regulation is the law, he does not put it, so it is a question for him, why he does not do it, well, here everyone can draw their own conclusions, but

you have already made some conclusions, yes, i made my conclusions directly, share them, look, well, we understand that in our... very often, let's say, the questions that are asked in the verkhovna rada, they end, let's say, not only in the verkhovna rada, so i think it is something like that the collective question of the collective guarantee , apparently, well, he, they are from the same party, from the same faction, so maybe because of that he violates, uh, but as far as i remember, after all, in the defense and intelligence committee , they voted for... the dismissal of maryana bezugla from the position of deputy head of the committee, well, first of all, i will say that we really devote a lot of time to maryana bezugla, including on the air, and yes, we voted and the regulatory committee voted on it, so here is the question it stands in the fact

that everything has to be voted on in the hall, well, we may be giving a lot, but in fact it was very revealing and it is probably important after all, if even after that... the deputies called for the resignation of the chairman of the verkhovna rada, not every day, the question of the regulation and its violation, when the deputies , even the servants of the people were asked to put ok, then we return to the question of the law on mobilization. at the beginning, i mentioned your colleague, and he said, roman lozynskyi, he said that this bill is really being thrown around like a ball. you know what surprised me the most, absolutely. none of stakeholders, so to speak, neither deputies, nor government officials, nor the military, nor even the president, do not admit that it was their ideas, their ideas, to propose introducing such unpopular measures into the draft law, such as restricting the rights of citizens or enlisting people

from the third group of disabilities, so actually, and whose authorship these unpopular measures belong to, as i understand it, precisely including, precisely because of them? this draft law was not popular in the parliament, look, well, it was authored, it was signed, it was slyly, it was submitted by the government, it was worked on by a group in which ms. maryana also participated, she worked in this group, and so on, well, the fact itself, i’m not saying right now, it’s bad, but she worked , i don't know just to what stage she brought it all, but she worked, it was all communicating there through these issues, she and the group of the ministry of defense and the general staff, as far as i know, the ministry of defense, the general staff, thank you very much to the government, i think , that the government too, but me, but not all of them, because some of the government officials later came to you and said, please don't pass it, rewrite it, yes, that is, that is, not really the whole government,

roman, thank you very much, roman kostenko, people's deputy, voice faction, secretary of the committee on national security, defense and intelligence, we were talking about the law. about mobilization, and here, as roman kostenko said, it is probably possible that he will not even be returned to the parliament, well, there is such an opinion, and iryna friz, a people's deputy from european solidarity, also a representative of the committee on issues , joins our broadcast national security, defense and intelligence, good evening, good evening, what is your vision, how can the story of this draft law develop further, your colleague said that perhaps it will not be returned to the verkhovna rada and will be limited to some... there by-laws, presidential decrees, well and other methods to somehow solve those issues that need to be solved very urgently, but without a law, well, let's go by procedure, we have alternative bills to the main one, the main one, as it became known today the subject of the submission, i.e.

the cabinet of ministers took it away in the form in which it was introduced, now the verkhovna rada has to make a decision on alternative draft laws, for that it has the desire to introduce a revised draft law in this area of ​​activity that needs to be settled, that is... you of our profile committee on alternative draft laws, on alternative draft laws, they are brought to the floor, approved by the parliament, after which the cabinet of ministers can automatically introduce its own modified version of the ones expressed during the discussion of the draft law at the committee, you have there was actually a bad connection, i didn't understand everything, but... i understand, you explained procedurally how it could be, and how it could be in reality now? well, that is, in

reality, it can only happen with the observance of the procedure, the procedure says: you need to make a decision on alternatives, after that you need to have the opportunity to make a revised version of the cabinet of ministers, if the president does not want to make his version of the changes to the law on mobilization. and from your point of view, why did this story with the draft law on... mobilization end like this, without even starting, well, because no one wants to be the goat from buvail in this case, although the issue is so urgent that, well, it goes beyond the limits of its relevance and needs to be settled in view of the request that was made directly by the general staff and the ministry of defense, these changes need to be made, the only thing is that they should be made in an adequate version that would not contradict the constitution and would not have corruption. risks, that is, european solidarity would not support this bill, as it contains

corruption risks and contradicts the constitution, i spoke about it on your broadcast even before it even came to the discussion of the committee, or yours, or your faction also today, as far as i understand, was one of the ones, one of those who called on the head of the supreme council, collected signatures for him. about the resignation, this happened today against the background of the bill on mobilization, what are your complaints against the chairman of the verkhovna rada? well, this is an ancient story, in fact, signatures have been collected since last year, the question is what is needed a certain number of signatures in order for this document to be valid for consideration, today it appeared only in the context of the fact that the collection of signatures has been renewed, there is nothing new there, mr. speaker violates. the current legislation violates the regulations of the verkhovna rada, in fact monopolized, authorized the activities of the verkhovna rada, reduced it to

serving the interests of one faction, and i am sure that many deputies whose rights mr. stefanchuk violates with his activities will actually be, i regret to state that we have the same problems now with the connection, but we heard your opinion. iryna friz, member of parliament for european solidarity and representative of the committee on national security, defense and intelligence. we talked about the mobilization bill. european solidarity really said from the very beginning that they would not support him, but today they also resuscitated the collection of signatures of people's deputies for the resignation of ruslan stefanchuk. and one more topic, which we continue for the third day in a row, in the state bureau. investigation today they announced the seizure of the property of the family and companies controlled by lviv businessman ihor hrynkevich, one of the largest suppliers of the ministry

of defense, who, i will remind you, tried to bribe the sbi investigator. as reported by the press service of the bureau , in order to ensure compensation for the damages caused, seizures were imposed on real estate, premium cars owned by the businessman's family, as well as on the property and accounts of companies controlled by him. in addition, within the growth. searches were conducted at residence and work addresses businessman, as well as at the directors and offices of companies under his control. the bureau also stated that according to the experts' opinion , it was established that all the products allegedly supplied by businessmen to the company for the needs of the ministry of defense in the 23rd year do not meet the quality characteristics and cannot be used by servicemen of the armed forces of ukraine. well , we will also inform the sbi additionally. that a few months ago, criminal proceedings were instituted on the fact of the procurement of clothes and underwear for the armed forces of ukraine, and according to the investigation

the companies of the lviv businessman won 23 tenders for the supply of clothes to the ministry of defense for more than uah 1.5 billion, but many contracts were not fulfilled, some were not fulfilled in full, there or at inflated prices, and the bureau, i will remind you, says that according to preliminary estimates, the amount of these losses may reach more than uah 1 billion. during the investigation , it was established that the execution of defense orders involved controlled businessmen and enterprises that were previously engaged in construction and did not have proper... production, warehouse and other capacities for the production and storage of property for the needs of the ministry of defense of ukraine. the law enforcement officers discovered complete non-fulfillment of six contracts, under at least seven contracts the company supplied goods to the warehouses of military units only in small quantities, but received state funds for full fulfillment of obligations. it was also established that eight contracts were executed

three to five months late. well, i'll remind you. that the lviv businessman's detention was reported to the sbi on december 29, he was allegedly detained during an attempt to give a bribe of 500 thousand dollars to one of the heads of the main investigative department of the sbi for assistance in the return of property that was actually confiscated during these criminal proceedings, and i will also remind you that the day before, a representative of the ministry of defense on radio svoboda said that after all, one the company associated with hrynkevich continues to supply food for the army and that the ministry of defense is still studying the agreement with this company under a microscope, but there is no reason to terminate it, and i will also add that, for example, hrynkevich's family, in particular his son roman, rejects all accusations and calls the case against his father ordered, and now tetyana sapyan, communications advisor of the state bureau of investigation, joins our broadcast, good evening, congratulations to the authorities, congratulations to all viewers and listeners of radio liberty. let me

remind you that hrenkevich is in the pre-trial detention center for attempting to pay a bribe. to an employee of the dbr, and not for some equipment with supplies for the ministry of defense, but if we are talking specifically about supplies for the armed forces, then what are the claims against him as of now, what is he at risk of and does he currently have any procedural the status of these cases? for the authorities, i will start with the general information that the state bureau of investigation systematically investigates the theft of property in the army, and this applies to both food products and clothing and personal protective equipment. today we are talking about this. a criminal proceeding involving one of the lviv businessmen who initially received a large order worth billions of hryvnias from the ministry of defense. and when we say to you that he was allegedly detained while giving a bribe, he was really 29 in december, we reported, he was detained while giving a bribe to one of the heads of the main

investigation department of the state security bureau, he offered half a million... dollars in order to solve his cases. you and i should perfectly understand that if a person did not feel his innocence, then he would not take such a risk, and of course, that feeling of impunity, and that such an impression is created that some people are so chosen or special , that they will not be able to bear the punishment is proved by the fact that he took such a rather ... serious risk and actually prove, the court has to prove everything, tatiana, is it possible in this particular case regarding procurement, the supply of goods for the armed forces, what is his current status? and, in particular, he has the status of a suspect in the criminal proceedings in the bribery case, in the criminal proceedings that are being investigated and concern, in particular, the supply

of clothing for the armed forces of ukraine, at the moment he has... the status is still being determined, there is no status, it turns out, it turns out that there is no status, well, for now he can at all, we are talking here, we are stating, you are stating the fact that he did some things there, and there is no status, what is important in this story is that he is currently in a pretrial detention center, he has the right to post bail, but he is in a pretrial detention center, it is important in this story that he is in a pretrial detention center not for handcuffs during the supply of products for the armed forces, but for trying to give... a bribe , to me, i'm just focusing on this, because in the media the story unfolds in such a way that they detained some dirty supplier of products and body armor and clothes for the armed forces, and they accuse him of that so- then, but it turns out, the status of these he has no business. you said at the beginning that