here is the new version, which has many flaws , shortcomings and needs to be refined, so we immediately proposed, let's you refine it, this was the proposal of the ministry of defense, in the first days of our discussion of the committee, and we will calmly introduce whether they will introduce a new bill, which will already be less debatable and problematic and painful for the whole society, because this disturbance, which went in a big wave in ukraine, it caused... certainly by those norms that were absolutely not explained, not worked out, neither by the ministry of defense, nor by shmygal, which has completely disappeared, in my opinion, from this discussion, i don’t know if it exists at all, the deputies do not see it either, and these norms, by the way, were not communicated even by the majority, so we believed, not because we position, and because there should be a statesman's position in relation to this issue, so it would be more correct for the ministry of defense to finalize it, and then introduce a draft law. where

certain exciting and painful norms for society will be clearly prescribed, and here we are talking not only about the third group of disabilities, but also about demobilization, for example, and ending with the cleaning of such complete, absolutely strange norms, starting with the list of debtors, because a military obligation does not entail a property obligation. solomi, what i want to clarify with you is this new draft law from the government, taking everyone into account. have you already seen the moments that were criticized, including by people's deputies, or have your colleagues from the committee already seen them? no, well, we haven't seen you yet, we only know about those edits, please, ms. oksana, hello-hello, yes, yes, mrs. straw, we hear you, we haven't seen, yes, we haven't seen the new bill yet, but we know the proposals that the committee was preparing and the articles that were commented on.

so i hope that all these things will be taken into account and we will see it before the registration to prevent a repeat scenario that happened with the first major government bill, that is, all these points for which you, some of your colleagues criticized the previous government bill, they taken into account in this, in this new version? it's hard for me to say because we haven't seen this version, er, huh, and it's hard to comment accordingly, that's why that we are also waiting for some documents from the ministry of defense, we only know that the committee... even suggested that we discuss with the ministry of defense every day what comments we have, and we hope that they will take them into account, that is why we are waiting for them documents, that is, according to the results of these discussions, at which minister umyerov was also present, do you understand whether the government and the ministry now understand these blatant moments that the people's deputies did not like, but no, i cannot guarantee that they will, that they will be in this... form, it's hard for me

to say, but i don't want to rush ahead, we'll only get the texts, then i can comment, because we have to understand that the second reading will also be a refinement, but can you tell us about how did it happen at all , what happened behind the scenes, because as of yesterday it was very extremely difficult to take the comments of your colleagues, and i understand that this is partly because it was not clear at all what will happen next, whether there is, there is such a version that people's deputies and the majority, including... did not want to simply take responsibility for making such decisions with which they do not agree, despite the fact that perhaps they could be convinced of this there in the office of the president? well, i would not like to be categorically involved in such politics, who wanted to take responsibility or not, this is our joint state responsibility, and that is why i do not like such things for speculation, but we all clearly understood that this the draft law simply...

needs an array of changes and amendments, and that is why, and because it caused a huge wave in society, and stirring up issues, there was no communication from the ministry of defense, nor from the cabinet, nor from the deputies, and in this stratum, it was impossible, that stratum of information, well, it would be or even possible, but simply difficult until the second reading for introduction , and it's just this reshaping of the bill actually in a third or half of it, that's why it seems to me... that this was the best option chosen and the right one, and that all stakeholders, starting with the president, should not turn away from this issue, from the office president, where a decision is made in relation to certain commanders, from the verkhovna rada , the ministry of defense, there was, there was normal readable communication, starting from billboards and social networks, ending with videos on television, this is normal, this is correct, this is just about a healthy and adult discussion and explanation, there is nothing to hide and...

avoid these and such things, because now it is not about political ratings, now we are talking about meeting the needs of the general staff, defense forces, fighters, where, if we want to talk about demobilization in that number of you are on our air, we will now talk about demobilization, i want to clarify such points, including the reaction of the military leadership to those amendments of the deputies. you have already said on our broadcasts that the military should be put aside here, that these are such important political moments, but nevertheless, the weeks of discussion of all this are not difficult, as i understand it, the conversations that were, like the military, like there in do the ministry of defense respond to these remarks and criticism of deputies? well, look, first of all, the ministry of defense is not all military. and this and partly this leadership - these are political positions and in my opinion there are compromises, there is an understanding of painful points, but how to make them less painful, when we talk about the military command, i believe that there was an understanding, but again, not them make decisions, that is, there is a need for them, our determination to provide this need

to the general staff, as the ministry of defense went to a meeting with me, understood where the fine lines are, where the fine line is, where support can be sought. including deputies, that is, it was not a matter of beating each other up, it was there was a question of joint work, i believe that this joint work took place during this week. if we talk about demobilization, this is really important, because in the last weeks on the air we talk about the political procedure, about these aspects, if we talk about really those people who are already mobilized, serving, their families are also interested to know what will happen further, they are already fulfilling their constitutional duty, they are already protecting the state, what do you think will be... the real term proposed there by the government, for now, real term of service, when those who went to war there in the 22nd year will be able to return home, and look, in the 22nd year, people who are especially volunteers, and this, and i think that the state

should be proud of the number of people who left, we will still have a gradation for demobilization, for those people who were not on the front lines, did not have bereks, but performed no less, or another kind of duty. and 36 months, i am more than convinced, it will not change, for those who were on the brk for a number of months, 8, 10, 12, there and more, for these people it should be gradation and the ability to leave the service early, there is still a discussion about that, what formula will be applied for those who currently have eight or six months or 10 months of combat orders there, and we are looking for an opportunity for them to leave early . on demobilization, i also note that your colleague, people's deputy maryana bezugla, noted on her facebook page that she has already published many points that are actually in the new government draft law, but i don't know if you have seen them, i have also seen them now her i will repeat and look, well, there she writes

that there is a proposal to exclude the requirement to provide military service at the place of residence when concluding an employment contract, the contract of anti-constitutional norms on the introduction of re'. of the register of debtors, to return the norm regarding the granting of deferment from mobilization and the right to dismissal to all persons with disabilities, including the third group, so it is about deferment of mobilization there, as well as points, well, many different functions of the clauses, that is, in essence , it is, well, it looks like so that the work of the people deputies and those critical remarks that sounded both on the air and at your meetings, they were really taken into account by the government, according to the terms, can you say when... there officially people's deputies can already see it and when the work on the new project , will work on the new document begin in the verkhovna rada? well, you know, it seems to me that marlyana published just the recommendations of the committee, but i will emphasize once again that the committee did not officially receive the document, neither officially nor unofficially, the draft bill that the ministry of defense wants to register is

firstly, secondly, as soon as they drop it or register it, the work will start immediately, because everyone is interested in making it work as soon as possible and the vote in the first reading passed. and it seems to me that it is precisely here that the parliament should meet sooner than there according to its plans, god knows when the ice of next month and vote such a bill in the first reading, everyone is interested in this, it seems to me, precisely all branches of government, all interested parties, i hope you have the political wisdom to do so. thank you for participating, thank you for informing, because it is very important in these moments of what is happening and sometimes incomprehensible, that the representatives of the parliament, including this... communicate solomiya bobrovska, people's deputy of ukraine, voice party, a member of the security, defense and intelligence committee of ukraine, was a guest of our broadcast. i will note that there is a lot of information about mobilization, about these issues of demobilization and the voices of people who are already fighting, there is enough information on

our resources, on the resources of radio liberty, on website, on radio liberty's youtube channels, in social networks, so in order to be informed and really know from the first sources what is happening, what where. is offered as discussed, then be sure to use our resources. and then let's talk about another topic that has arisen very often in recent weeks in the information space. we are discussing it with you, here is humor during the war, well, in fact, lately stand-up comedians, comedians, because of their jokes , have gotten into some scandals, since the beginning of the year there have been at least three of them, which resulted in public plane , my colleague iryna ostrovska will tell you about them in detail, if you missed something, you can write in the comments what exactly became so new and interesting for you, iro, hello, tell me, please, what entertainment programs do you already watch? watched and what jokes were inappropriate and not accepted by ukrainian society? hello katya and

rfe/rl viewers, there have been a lot of scandals related to ukrainian comedians recently. for example, at the end of the year, the 95th quarter was celebrated, in the new year's edition they showed the number about resettlement from currently occupied skadovsk. suddenly, who does not know, this is a city in the kherson region. so, pereselenka allegedly gets to transcarpathia, starts speaking ukrainian, but somehow does it so allegedly that the locals don't do it. the resident does not understand her, even the phrase "i'm from skadovska " is pronounced by a woman in such a way that it sounds like siskadovska, which, according to the authors of the project, is ridiculous. the number caused a wave of indignation, especially among skadov residents. people write that they never talked like that in skadovsk. mayor oleksandr yakovlev wrote that despite the fact that many townspeople were russian-speaking, they know and speak ukrainian well. yakovliv says that nowadays the townspeople need support, not ridicule, and launched a flash mob on social networks with... dovsk speaks ukrainian. and the truth is, winged people don't

need soil. there is no earth, then there will be heaven. love ukraine like the sun, love like the wind, grass, and water. the editor-in-chief of the local publication watermelon city, yevgenia virlych, filed a complaint with the commission of journalistic ethics on channel 1.1 because of this joke. in its statement , the commission did not directly answer whether the number is there. 95th quarter of discrimination, however, stated that the line between humor and discrimination and hate speech is very thin, and tv channels with a large audience of viewers should be aware that their broadcasts have almost the greatest influence on the formation of public opinion, and should show special attention to possible manifestations of discriminatory humor. in the 95th quarter, they apologized for the number and explained that they did not want to offend anyone, on the contrary, they aimed to support ukrainians who are just starting to speak ukrainian language the skit itself has already been removed from the studio kvartal 95 online youtube channel, but

this number is still available in the full video of the new year's concert. honestly, i do, i really like walking in your forest, in the forest, the forest, yes, whether, the forest, yes, just, well, in the middle of nowhere, i honestly walk a lot and i like to walk in the fresh air, believe me, but not for a block the only one another humorous group, dieselshow, recently got into a scandal. in their new year's show, they made fun of the residents of occupied crimea. according to the scenario of the couple crimeans welcome the new year at the moment when the peninsula is liberated by the armed forces of ukraine. and although before that this couple allegedly actively supported the occupiers. here they repaint in an instant, sing oh in the red viburnum meadow, remember the ukrainian language and look for embroidery. at the same time, at the beginning of the number , the presenter emphasizes that this is a typical couple of local residents. so tell me where, where is my embroidery? what are you, a fool? you

sold it to someone even during the maidan. well, yes, but where are my trousers? yes, in 2014 you cut the ussr flag out of them and went to rallies. by the way, earlier in december 2023, dieselshow already joked about ukrainians in the occupation, there saint nicholas comes to a ukrainian family and meets with the russian military. this video full of pathos devalues ​​the sky. for people under occupation, ridicules sexual orientation and repeats the principles of russian propaganda, in particular about gayrope, this is stated in the review of detektor media, and you are so courageous, you liked me immediately, even then on the bus, that’s what bullshit it is, and that’s what it is for gayrop here, however, unlike the 95th quarter, in dieselshow apologize to viewers or ukrainians... did not become, on the contrary, the actress victoria bolitko published stories with indignation about the criticism of this number and

said that many people from the occupation liked it, and the editor-in-chief of dieselshow oleksiy blanar called those who criticize botfarm haters , sofa critics and hymn journalists. in the new year's issue itself, there were other dubious jokes from this team. as the media detector points out , the release of the new year's program of the videzel show is full of propaganda for alcoholism, the involvement of children and sexist and xenophobic people. of this public organizations detector media and the institute of mass information appealed to the national council for television and radio broadcasting. and another scandal related to stand-up comedians happened already at the beginning of this year, in the alcomics show, comedian victoria taran called widows happy women with money. this outraged many ukrainians, in particular, alina mykhaylova, the fiancee of the fallen soldier dmytro kutsyubail, reacted to the joke. she said that with this clip, the authors spat in the faces of thousands of ukrainian widows, orphaned children and mothers. after scandal in social networks, victoria herself recognized this joke as unsuccessful and apologized for it. the joke

has already been removed from the capital's stand-up youtube channel, where it was actually published. there, by the way, they also apologized for this one. so to speak, humor. such scandals have happened to katya recently, and this is only since the beginning of this year, although if you follow all the shows, all the stand-up artists, it is possible that there may be many more such scandals. iro, thank you for such a selection, for this information, iryna ostrovska, our journalist, collected it all by the way, so that we understand the subject of the conversation, and the conversation is really timely, as ira already noted, the question is, what jokes fail to get into the media, right? is discussed, it is, of course, not all 100% of those jokes that exist somewhere in space, so we will talk about it further. let's talk about this later, while you have the opportunity to write your opinion about it in the comments, and do you watch any entertaining, humorous shows, maybe stand-up comedians, and there are

actually a lot of such on youtube, and in recent years there have been more, so write your opinion, well, me i invite our guests to this conversation. these are oleksandr burmagin, a member of the national council on television and radio broadcasting and taras stadnytskyi, an actor, humorist and standap comedian. greetings, gentlemen, thank you for joining, i will address each of you in turn to make this conversation as efficient as possible, and i actually have a lot of questions for you. first of all, oleksandr, the journalistic ethics commission filed a complaint with the national council on television and radio broadcasting. can you even tell how many offensive complaints there are now considers jokes. national council and at what stage are they? greetings, greetings to everyone, we received several complaints, they also concern the 95th quarter, one complaint, and two complaints concern the diesel show, currently the national council, as a media regulator, let's say this,

since these documents have only recently arrived, we are processing them, analyzing them , a monitor... actually a fixation was carried out, work is currently underway on a meaningful analysis of these sketches, these plots, in order to provide an appropriate assessment. taras, you perform as a stand-up comedian acting experience, at the same time you were a member of the kvk and the projects of the 95th quarter, and you know how it actually works from the inside. in your opinion, who is responsible for the offensive jokes, because there are actually a lot of people involved in this process. you know, i just think that this kind of direction and jokes and any skits and so on, right now they are very so painful and very sensitive for the whole society, so it seems to me that at any stage there should be some kind of , well, if not an external check, then whether this number or this scene is calling

some certain such contradictory feelings, and at least it should be discussed not only with those people who make it up, because they make it up for sure... they are in such a circle funny, not funny, and also how correct it is in the present time or incorrect, and as far as i know, yuriy velikiy, who is the author of this number, he apologized for this number, he said that he saw this number as in one direction, he perceived it in another direction, and probably this is the main thesis and theme that has be that it is possible the author lays down one thing, but people who watch can see the second, and therefore, for sure, such numbers should not be censored, but... i would say such a comprehensive review, as far as it is perceived by people, those who will watch this number from the side. actually the first time, uh, yes, because there are a lot of us in ukraine, we are from different regions, some live in the occupation, some have survived the occupation, know what it’s like, some don’t, so the actual reaction may be completely different, there is also the issue of ridicule, a person who tries, tries to speak ukrainian, really

it's important because this is also a very important topic, you know, as a person who grew up in the west of ukraine, i recently realized... that i actually envy people who are now switching to the ukrainian language, because they are much cleaner and much better , well, they speak in such fantastic words , which i have not even heard here sometimes, because i think these people need some kind of comprehensive support, and i should thank them for the fact that, despite the fact that they probably lived in the environment for many years, which spoke russian and spoke russian, that they go over and they do it very well, how about me, sir? oleksandr, what do you think of such jokes in general, have you seen these numbers and what sanctions and punishments, or what might be from the national council, if you and your colleagues decide that they really would be inappropriate there. me, the fact is that i was born in kherson, and kherson oblast is my small homeland, i watched the 95th quarter,

i watched dieselshow a little, and i already read a lot of different materials myself, because i, as a media person expert, as a media lawyer, i myself need to figure it out in order to exactly as a member of the national council to participate in a discussion, so together with colleagues to come to one. and i liked one rather large analytical article by one expert, who wrote about aggressive humor, about the fact that there, as they are elected there, let's say this, these victims are for one or another mockery, and in stand-up, in stand-up in that number, she wrote that it is difficult to call humor bad or good, it can be appropriate or inappropriate, and in my personal opinion. i'm talking now, and i'm not talking about a legal assessment now, so that we should give a first and foremost legal assessment, as far as what was broadcast on the channels of the law of ukraine on the media in

the context, well, the complaints were received in the context of discrimination, and i believe that, of course, that these sketches were just inappropriate, because, as my colleague just said, no... they passed such a crash test and because they chose this woman, they showed and chose the city that is currently passing, well, it is under occupation, a city in which she is naturally and physically killed for the ukrainian language and for the fact that people speak ukrainian, there were more than one, not two, such cases, and therefore it was necessary to think three or four times before actually, let's say, show it on stage and show it. on the air, but these are very difficult cases, because here we are talking about such things as stigmatization, stereotyping, whether there is discrimination or not,

actually we have to make an analysis and come to conclusions in our decisions there, but i believe that it was simply inappropriate humor in both cases, and we will give a legal assessment a little later, well, it is also an important point that in the 95th quarter they apologized, in the diesel show, as i understand it, they did not apologize, they do not... know that the humor there could have been inappropriate. taras, the main hate and outrageous comments are always directed towards the actors, because they are the face of this joke, and they talk about it with their mouths, they play it, and actually, especially when they find some more provocative background, like there is a vacation in crimea or something else, well , this topic is very popular, how do you feel about the hate of actors in particular, or are they really bear the greatest responsibility, because there is a script team, there are producers, but the actor, he plays. role, does he have to be such a censor, can he even choose what he will play and what he will not play in such shows? eh, i think that we are not some kind of slaves

, that's right, we have the right to vote and the right to choose, but i repeat myself, it seems to me that before putting this number on the stage or airing it, there should be more his comprehensive review of this issue or this one in particular, and again, i really liked that the humor is appropriate and… inappropriate, i actually recently watched several american stand-up comedians who are now talking and joking about the holocaust, joking about such, well, controversial topics, but there is an understanding that they have their own audience and that there this humor is perceived as humor, here it is again, very, very sensitive, because we have a war in our country , a full-scale invasion in our country, and there are things that, at least now, cannot be joked about. maybe someday it will be possible in some way, not even i would say to laugh, but somehow with humorous side to depict it, but

again, it must take a certain amount of time, and to such jokes a person must understand that there can be a very , very ambiguous, ambiguous reaction, and regarding the actors, who, well, i already repeated myself, probably that they have the opportunity to choose, have the opportunity to speak, they have the opportunity not to take part in it. participation, but at least have the opportunity to hint at and say that this number is very ambiguous, let's either revise it or not do it at all, well, i understand that this is known the rule, as if for everyone, not even related to this profession of humor, what to joke about yourself, if you are a jew there, you joke about jews, hey, you joke about gays, it's one story when you do it, and when it's someone from the side does, it can really offend others, but there is actually a difference between tv shows and stand-up comedians. taras, how do you censor, for example, your jokes, or do you check them on someone before your performances? i don't censor, i check them, but i actually have one inside.

internal such a check that i'm not kidding about something that i did not take part in or was not involved in, that is, i do not joke about the military, about the war and so on, except for those moments when we went there with the vip ternopil team to give speeches to the guys on the front lines, and there there have been some such moments, but i understand whether it can be given or not, and beforehand i try, if i use any of this material, to agree with the people who were involved in this case, gentlemen, we... there are still we have three minutes of airtime, and this is the question for everyone, mr. oleksandr, to you first: is there any culture of jokes, a certain level of jokes should be raised at all, because there are ratings, there are a number of views, and usually such jokes, well, maybe without such taste, they reach the majority of the audience, is it necessary to somehow regulate this moment, well, i believe that it is for sure, well, it should not be, you know, at the level of laws and at the level of state bodies, it is still, well, a matter of...

the actual development of the formation of culture, well, it should, well, it should take place in such public discussions, and by the way, regarding these two cases and the dieselshow of the 95th quarter, i think that society has already made a certain assessment, i really hope that the authors and tv channels will draw conclusions from this actual situation and from this wave of, let's say, indignation that has risen in society. i believe that the state itself, well, the state, i mean, as state bodies, there should be the lowest level of laws in these matters, and it is society itself that should decide such things and regulate them, i really hope that we will go exactly here such an evolutionary path, and we will draw conclusions, and this, let's say, the situation, including humor, will improve, taras, what to do to follow the majority and ratings and views,

or should a humorous screenwriter there offer something new to the audience, something more witty, more intellectual? i think that everyone has their own choice, everyone has to find their own way to go, and recently i think, i am subscribed to the ratings newsletter, i saw that basically both dieselshow and quarter 95 on new year's eve or new year's holidays took their ratings so i think if they want to keep theirs ratings and so on... they have to somehow look a little differently at how they present their humorous material and what they present, so it's interesting, well, but actually very important points that noted that the cultural level here is a lot also dictates the responsibility of the people who prescribe all these jokes and conduct these shootings, because there are mostly a lot of people involved, thank you gentlemen for joining in, oleksandr burmagin from the national council for television and

radio broadcasting and... statnytskyi, a person who directly is an actor, humorist and stand-up comedian, and together with them we discussed the appropriateness, inappropriateness and which jokes during the war. thank you gentlemen. thanks to all of you, our viewers, i see in the comments you also share what shows you watch, which ones you don't watch at all. well , as we can see, we actually have with you in modern ukrainian youtube a selection of such large corporations that... offer us big shows with a bunch of different scenes, and also stand-up comedians who can be googled and selected separately and watched , so continue in the comments under this video, share your tastes and preferences and advise others maybe something interesting in your opinion to watch, that was the release of this freedom morning this morning, i thank you for spending it with us, stay with radio svoboda and watch us in aired by the tv channel. my name is kateryna

nekrecha, i and our entire team wish you... have a good day and see you, congratulations, it's news time on espresso, in the studio. works kateryna shirokopoyas the prime minister of great britain will come to kyiv today, he will meet with president volodymyr zelensky this is reported by the british publication sky news. during the visit, the prime minister will announce a new package of military aid. britain plans to provide 2.5 billion pounds of starlin military aid to ukraine over the next two years. it is also expected that sunak will sign zelensk.