also, none of the candidates applying for a role, for participation in the supervisory board in this category, withdrew their candidacy in favor of someone else, what does this mean, we can only guess, maybe it means nothing, but it is important to me, the principle is important to me in general, the management of the institution in the form of a supervisory board, that is , it seems to me that it is very important to unpack it, because before the foundation of the ukf before... the existence of the ukrainian institute, the ukrainian institute of books, that is, the first few post-maidan years, cultural institutions were managed by relevant ministries, i.e. central bodies of executive power, the so-called governing bodies, this meant that the ministries had practically unlimited influence on the activities and decisions made by these institutions. the post-maidan era changed this paradigm and introduced the practice of the existence of supervisory councils for a long time. of new

cultural institutions, which should take over the functions of the governing body, that is, the functions of the controlling body and the functions of the collegial body, which agrees on some key strategic decisions of such a high level of these organizations, and the idea was that representatives of the public or the independent sector should have a large, if not the majority, of the votes in the supervisory boards, that is , to remove from the state the possibility... to manually manage these new institutions by their design and meaning, that is why the supervisory board of the ukrainian institute exists and operates according to this logic, the supervisory board of the ukrainian book institute operates according to a similar logic, and it is very important to me that such a key the institution as ukf was also managed in an honest way, so that the interests of very different stakeholders were represented in it, but so that none of them... had

the temptation to turn on the handbrake again and change the activities, operational activities of the fund in a convenient or necessary way for themselves, this the principle of the institution of culture was borrowed from corporate governance, it is not new, it is as old as the world, when the business owner, in our case, the founder, the state delegates the functions of managing the institution or organization or business. to the supervisory board and removes itself from a number of strategic and tactical decisions, and this seems to me to be a great test of all of us for maturity and readiness, first of all, for the state to dare to take such a step is very uncharacteristic for itself, because the instinct of the state prescribes to control the maximum of all subordinates, all subordinates institutions, and on the other hand, this is a test for the public, which must also be able to... mobilize, which also

knows how, must defend its voice, make itself visible to the same authorities and be for it an interlocutor who inspires both trust and a desire to communicate with them. here, when we talk about the state, in this situation , the state is represented in the supervisory board by as many as four people, yes, there are two people from the president's office. there are two people from the ministry of culture, by the way, the ministry of culture communicates in some way, we already know the candidates from the ministry of culture to the supervisory board of the ucf, bohdan, no, we do not know, well, i would say at least four, yes, because rather all six persons represent the state and two the public sector, since cultural institutions are mostly also state-owned, since the role of the president is representative, right?

yes, well, we know democracies where the president has very limited powers and is rather a symbol of democracy than a branch of government, there are such precedents if we talk about the role of the president, who bears all the responsibility for everything that happens in the cabinet of ministers and in the parliament and in any state department yes. well , this additional load on the president is absolutely absurd, well, you know the person in the office at the bank who deals with the field culture, here is a person you personally know in the banking industry, whom i only know by his last name, it seems to me that this is done by mr. dniprov, who used to be tabachnyk's deputy and is also the president of the badminton federation of ukraine.

unfortunately, i don't know anything more about this person and i never had the opportunity to meet her, lord, how about, what is your opinion about the presence? in the supervisory board of people from the power, from the presidential power, well, this is such an unusual precedent for cultural institutions, i mean in ukraine as well, of course, it seems to me that this is the only institution to whose supervisory board the president has the right to delegate his candidates or the president's office, there are actually different political cultures in the world, the french one, in my opinion, is very close. to ours, it is a presidential republic there, and there the cultural management vertical is very sensitive to the wishes and direct orders of the presidential office itself, we have witnessed this on our own experience, having launched a representative office

of the ukrainian institute in france, and i know that a number of especially national institutions culture in france, they actually listen a lot. they hear and carry out the instructions of the french presidential administration, so we have a slightly different management system in culture, but according to the political culture and the rules of the game, it seems to me that france and ukraine are similar in many ways, but here it seems to me that it is necessary to look at this situation in a slightly different way, the delegation of candidates does not mean , that is, not enough... in an ideal world, it means a lot of further control or management of decisions through these people institutions in, again, an ideal world , subjects who delegate or elect

their representatives to the supervisory board should choose the best, most conscientious, those who meet the very clear requirements for candidates for the supervisory board of the ukrainian cultural foundation in ours. in the case defined in article six, it seems to the law on the ukf , i.e. people with an impeccable business reputation, people with extensive work experience in the field of culture, virtuous and so on, and so on, in principle, the function of delegators ends there, because then the supervisory board is an autonomous, independent collegial body, which no longer has to fulfill someone's political orders or other conditional assignments, so there is no subordination here. at least it doesn't exist in the law and it shouldn't exist in practice, well, but in ukrainian political culture it doesn't work that way, that's why i asked the question in the way i did, look, ivan kozlenko, by the way, the former director of udovzhenka of the center, writes that

last time, in the last time, it is meant that in this supervisory board, which, which is now, in the ukf there were such outstanding figures culture, like, for example, a traveler... surin or the director of my beautiful nanny and other quarters russian kiryushchenko. i understand correctly that this kiryushchenko, who, as ivan kazalenko says, has a russian passport, he was specifically delegated by the president's office. well, if i'm not mistaken, yes, it seems so. actually, it proves a certain, certain, actually political. in ukraine, but for the sake of justice, i must say that the same legislation was written under president poroshenko, and we remember that in the supervisory board, correct me if this is not so, there was maryna poroshenko, she was the head of the supervisory board, the head of the supervisory

board of the ukrainian football federation was maryna poroshenko, how do you feel about it , i remember that when she joined the supervisory board, there were different opinions about it, whether we should... both here and for what was the purpose, what was the purpose of this, and well, on the one hand, to ensure stability, yes, that is , quite often it also depends a lot on the political culture, but in many countries the first lady deals with culture, ugh, and therefore there is logic in this , so that the first lady at least was on the supervisory board of the ukrainian cultural fund, i don't see anything wrong with it, it seems to me that olena zelenska could also be on the supervisory board of the ukrainian cultural fund, at least it would give the ukrainian cultural fund a little more publicity, yes, because for these three years , the ukrainian cultural fund disappeared due to the fact that most of these elected people, they

are very little public, well, only mr. kyryushchenko, a fairly well-known star, but... therefore , in my opinion, there is no nothing bad, for obvious reasons there is none norms in the legislation, for the first lady to still be in the supervisory board, because it should... be her personal decision and the president's decision, maybe, but i don't see any risks in this, maybe, but about that, about that , actually my question also concerned maryna poroshenko, but also that in the legislation these two candidates from the office of the president, it was established during the presidency of petro poroshenko, and not during the presidency of volodymyr zelenskyi, yes , that is, what, as you see, is the expediency of such , should it already be in... the new law, well, but, but again, maryna poroshenko was not elected by poroshenko's office, so, since she was

the head of the supervisory board, she was actually elected by eight other members of the supervisory board, the ninth member and actually the head of the supervisory board and the head of the ukrainian cultural fund itself, because these positions of the role of the association. i understand your point correctly that the problem is not that there are people from the ministry. of culture, whether from the president's office, in addition to cultural institutions and public organizations, which is the main problem the main one that you see is these fake public organizations that can be created , pocket-sized and which then vote in favor of the right people, let's see who owns who, so i will definitely express my opinion, which seems to me to be a triad, a group of those subjects who should form a supervisory board is such that

it is the ministry of culture in the case of the ukrainian cultural center, it is cultural institutions or cultural institutions, and it is the public, so selections, competitive selections for heads of all other cultural institutions and institutions, state and municipal in in ukraine, as a matter of fact, this is one of our post-maidan reforms in the field of culture, in order to conditionally have parity... to represent the interests of these three groups of subjects, in the case of ukf, i would like to see greater representation of the public. it seems to me that the supervisory board should have a majority of votes and people who will represent the independent public sector, then it will be a healthier story. well, yes, but it is possible to create a mass, but, at the same time , the procedure itself must be improved, yes, that is, there cannot be 40 organizations registered for to vote in the elections in the ukf, right? these should be organizations with some reputation, perhaps the ukf should accredit them

before this vote, and they may simply be those organizations that directly participated in competitive procedures at the ccf, that won, that successfully defended their projects, and that's it already that public was formed by the ukrainian cultural fund, and this is essentially a retribution to the ukrainian cultural fund, because it is these organizations that should be formed. the future among others i will also add, among other suggestions regarding the reform of the selection process , which are proposed, in particular, by the cultural community, this is to prevent the organization from voting and from nominating candidates who, for example, were founded less than two years ago, and who , for example, organized less than a certain number of cultural events or projects in a year, i.e. are inactive or less active in the field, as well as organizations that, for example, had experience, previous experience of breaking agreements, grant agreements with the ukf due to

non-fulfillment of obligations to the fund, and a number of other safeguards that would allow, and and in fact, also the assessment of organizations that are obviously related to each other or related to persons who are candidates for membership, and well, that is, the conflict of interests must be mentioned in the law, that is, it cannot be such that a person from the founder of these organizations. basically starts all his organizations, even if they were candidates for the ukf, yes, it doesn’t matter, maybe, well, that is , they participated in some projects at keif earlier, it should still be a conflict of interests, i have the impression that here in the studio very good decent people have gathered, and they live and talk about some ideal world, for example, i read, while preparing for the program for the talk, i read that more than two years ago, the coalition was working... these cultures developed these proposals for changes to

legislation, and some of them could be implemented at the level of the ministry of culture itself, there was no need to re-vote in the parliament, and it still hasn't been done, so what is the utility of the fact that we are having good conversations with you now, like it should be, yes, we just see that again in the political culture of ukraine this is still happening, in my opinion, these conversations are extremely important, because i was at the same elections for the artistic arsenal, in which i almost won kolinyak, and i was the only representative of the media. in the audience at that moment, and it seems to me that insufficient attention, it also leads to the fact that various suslensky get out of their holes and begin to take over independent institutions, i will now show, so to speak, the brutality of the methods, i will show now the post of chairman

of the board of public broadcasting mykola chornotytskyi, who six months ago... announced that the public was offered to release jeans against the possible head of the ministry of culture, yulii fediv, then they were going, oh, no, no, after the ministry of culture, because just then there were talks about that yuliya fediv can head the ministry of culture, and you can see it in the message that my colleagues from the social, public, vlada tsurkan, which is called. a representative of one of the employees of the ukrainian cultural fund of the present, thus offers a material reward for the black pr against yuli feds , this proposal is underlined in red, and these are actually the methods that, as i understand

, are used by people who do not want to update the ukf, again, let's... then let's talk about the most positive scenario this situation that exists now, when half of the public organizations, let's say, and as they say in isia, yes, belong to one of the members of the supervisory board, ee, what can be the composition of the supervisory board in the most positive version, the most optimistic, what can be done , my god, well in the most optimistic scenario, it is now... er, the ministry of culture and the president are going to an open, open dialogue with cultural actors, i think a few hours are enough to decide on worthy candidates, discuss them, er er plan the activities of the future supervisory council, and well

, it can even be all eight people from ee, well, that is, in us. voting is still going on , yes, cultural institutions and public organizations, and suslansky has less than half there, so we still have a chance to win from public organizations, so well as for me, we can hope for the majority, if there is a minority, it will be difficult, my lord, what is your most optimistic, what? what will be a victory for you? the victory will be a democratic majority in the supervisory board , as we are now talking among ourselves, that is, these are people who share, firstly, common values, and secondly, a vision of how the supervisory board can help ukf to get out of the hole in which it is now, unfortunately, is if this majority becomes a minority, then at least we

like-minded people who make up this minority can talk to each other about how we communicatively, we can at least talk about what is happening in this supervisory board, if there are questionable decisions made by it or procedural violations, then at least this democratic minority will be able to talk about it publicly, attract public attention and once again mobilize the same public sector, so who i believe should be the main stakeholder in this process. i understand correctly that these funds, which are allocated for this year, are... more than last year, but they are less than before the war, yes, until the big war, i understand correctly that these 215 million hryvnias will not be enough and it will be necessary to attract funds from international donors, this is a logical assumption,

it seems to me not very realistic for several reasons. the first is the exhaustion of the same international donors during two years of full-scale war. i say this from my own experience, as well as the experience of the ukrainian institute. donors are now refocusing on infrastructure projects or direct support, for example, to regions affected by hostilities or occupation. it such a hard, hard investment in ukraine. it seems to me that there are fewer and fewer donors and various grantees. international organizations are ready to invest specifically in the sphere of culture, the situation here can be partly resolved by the activity of the ministry of culture itself, which is in cooperation with the ministries of others. countries , so one can talk about a certain mobilization of funds and resources that would be directed to the ukf, but this requires trust in the ukf, and the face of this institution will be

the supervisory board in one way or another, no international donor or even a ministry or private foundation, will give funds to an institution whose face is compromised, well, here i can only add that ukf had joint programs with international donors before... the current supervisory board, well, now they are gone, but now, sorry, this amount that ukf had to attract from these international donors, should be more than the funds currently allocated by the state to the ukf this year, so that this activity makes sense, because the needs of the sector and the sphere of culture, both state and independent, in my opinion, several times exceed the amount which is now laid on okf budget. the question will be for those people who we have not convinced that the topic of culture is important even during the war, here i call this amount 215, more than millions, and i think that obviously

there will be people who will say that it is not necessary now, it is not necessary now how much, it is better to make drones, it is better to give it to the army, to the army and so on, as you answer, why is culture important in wartime, this? there will be the last question, uh, this is a question that we, for example, at ukrainer in the team, probably also ask ourselves every day, yes, because we also collect on our institutional activity, to spread ukrainian narratives in the world, and eh, how to talk about it now, well, it's quite difficult to say, but we have to understand that drones save our lives in the short and long term. narratives are long-term, and since this is a narrative war, well, we have every chance to lose it, if we do not form our own culture here, our own

narratives and do not spread them, we will not spread them to the world. i would like to quote pavel makov, a ukrainian artist who recently published an interview a few days ago, it turned out interview with him, in which he says that if we had not started this work... on the communication of cultural ukraine in the world much earlier, then perhaps this war would not have happened, he puts forward such a hypothesis, since the europeans they were not defending ukraine then , but were defending their own, that is, they would have accepted ukraine as a part, definitely a part of the european space, and this defensive defensive war of ukraine would not have been perceived by them as someone else's war, but as a war to protect their own, and this... too , probably such a little utopian thesis, i really like it nevertheless, it responds, because without the subjectivity of cultural education, we will not win this war, i believe that without

this culture being created internally, we will not have anything to demonstrate or communicate abroad, and that is why these post-maidan institutions, in particular the ukf, are such important and by the way, i highly recommend reading the interview with... pavel makov , about which volodymyr shuyko speaks, it has such a very piercing title that if there is no ukraine, then what is all this for me, that 's the name of this article. and volodymyr shiyko, director of the ukrainian institute, bohdan logvynenko, the founder of the ukrainer project, were our guests, we talked about the fate of the ukrainian cultural fund, we hope that this institution will survive, in particular, with our... your joint efforts. thank you for being with us, thank you for watching the espresso tv channel. see you next week. thank you.

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: good health, ladies and gentlemen, my name is mykola veresen, sharp presentation of facts and competent opinions, in america they also say, let's have better roads , we will have even better ones, a special look at events in ukraine, on the border of kyiv there will be some katsaps and beyond, which the world dreams of, norman, we can imagine it, all this in the information marathon with mykola in september, on saturday 17:10, sunday 18:15 at espresso. exclusively. on the air of our channel. congratulations, friends, politklub is on the air on the espresso tv channel. the most relevant topics of the week: russia's war against ukraine, the war in the middle east, the crisis on the border between ukraine and poland. topics causing resonance in our society: drone attack on kyiv and other cities of ukraine, drone attacks on moscow and other cities of russia.

process analysis. a project for those who care and think politclub every sunday at 20:10 at espresso. greetings to all viewers of espresso, annaeva is with you melnyk and i will start with an important message in the kryvorizka district, our defenders shot down a russian missile, the head of

the dnipropetrovsk regional military administration announced.