on our territory in order to stand up and everything else is practical, and how do you understand that , that is why the budapest memorandum did not really work, by the way, our discussions on this topic for 30 years, we discussed with you once at an international conference in bergen, when i asked you exactly this question, how can you even think that such a document will work. can i repeat this question after 30 years, please, i remember this trip to bergen, i remember the budapest memorandum, i was in budapest, just then in 1994 in the delegation, i remember it perfectly, except for one, in all these security documents, there are memoranda, agreements and not only security ones, but they have only one: i will tell you this, not

a diplomatic one, the budapest memorandum has a signatory who, well , to put it bluntly, he absolutely does not care about international law from the big kremlin bell tower, that is the flaw, that is, everything that russia signs, it, remember bismarck, what he said about it, therefore... of course, the budapest memorandum had this flaw , that the signature of russia is not to be trusted in any case, this should be such a historical lesson, learned once and for all, you can't, and there was another nuance there, so i remember perfectly all those negotiations with three nuclear powers, and above all with one, the american one. because at that time

the americans pressed more than anything else to conclude such an agreement. the russians followed him. but, young ukraine at that time, which was only 3-4 years old from restored independence. it was very difficult to work with such powerful world powers, such an issue as nuclear weapons. it is very difficult. today this agreement was signed ukraine and great britain, it does not have this wool. england, great britain, historically known, is the nation that gives its word and understands that it is yours, that's why they are.

it seems that this is a diplomatic success, if you can say so, today in our conditions, the conclusion of such an agreement has arisen. i want to turn to one more important topic today, this is the davos meeting of advisers, and after this meeting of advisers, where there were many more participants than before, the minister of foreign affairs of the swiss confederation. said that in his opinion, without peace talks are still not possible for russia, and he also emphasized the importance of china's participation, which was also not present in these negotiations, and that's really the question i have , what is the ultimate meaning of the meeting of national security advisors regarding the end of the war in ukraine, when russia does not pay any attention to these summits? well, let's... i will try

to look at this from two points of view, i also noticed this statement, but did not pay much attention to it for one simple reason, not because i disagree with the swiss foreign minister, i those do not agree with him, he simply did not inform well, firstly, secondly, through switzerland , the russians are actively working to ensure that ideas about a peaceful... a seminar was held there on the topic of possible negotiations, after they become possible, the swiss are now voicing it, because it is their tribune and so on, well , it is clear that russia is working, on the other hand, one must remember that this is the second code of sight, no...

advisors will end this war, this war will be completed by the armed forces of ukraine with the help of those partners and allies that we have already gathered and are continuing. to collect, which help us, and it is very much like that, returning to the agreement with great britain, it seems to me that the signing of such an agreement with great britain is significant in this context. because the british, well, roughly speaking, historically know what it's like to fight dictatorships, and to fight when you yourself are with... 39 to 41 years 40 41 years britain against nazi germany does not give war until they join with the former ally of germany, the soviet union

, suddenly became an enemy, well, a historical one. what i mean is exactly what happens when the soviet union meets. who say absolutely logical things, many support ukraine there in the idea of ​​restoring territorial integrity, how is it then implemented in reality? now, it seems to me, vitaliy, that no matter what diplomats say at such and such platforms, it should be considered only in the light of black and white, in which we live last. almost soon, we have a war and from our side, the war is absolutely just, so it's a shame to me that such ideas are beginning

to be expressed in very respectable platforms, for one simple reason, i remember very well from the history course what the pesablanni conference is, er... it's a conference the so-called unconditional surrender, when the allies, as the americans called it at that time, decided that there could be no negotiations with national germany, and the war would go on to the final capitulation, the same is the position of ukraine, today our war is just, the war we are waging for liberating our country from the aggressor and leading it to victory, this is the official ukrainian position, and it cannot be. unfortunately, not all of our partners and allies would say so. here in this support, here in political. they say that we

will be with you as long as necessary, but they are afraid to say a word before your victory for a simple reason, because this is the same reason that, unfortunately,... then in 1994 , these three nuclear powers were imprisoned for one style with ukraine in order to sign, well , the greatness, the greatness of those states that are today permanent members of the organization's security council occupy their seats. and tell me, please, does it still matter that the chinese have only been to such a format once, and recently... even the special representative for central europe, who was at the meeting in malta, refrained from arriving at such meetings, how many i remember. china is a thousand-year-old empire that has its own interests, and

ukraine is one of china's priority interests, from china's point of view, well, let's say it doesn't belong, but russia belongs, russia belongs, but... but rather today russia for china it is, that is, it is not an asset, but rather a liability, and it seems to me that the chinese think that it is impossible to do more and retreat, china is also a big power, so i think that china is taking a break and reading, that china i think, well... i think a thousand years will think a little more, we have to do our own thing and do with those who are ready to help us, and i'm just very pleased that i i never doubted that britain is very reliable and a powerful partner, and this year with

which we started our conversation, she is just that question, but tell me, other countries, group of seven, will they sign similar british agreements, will there be any differences, what are they? as far as i know, the united states of america is already working on such a document in odessa, which he will see. when it will be signed , but er, well, let's say, the framework of the language that is laid down in the treaty, in the agreement with britain, they are very strong, it seems to me that there is such a nuance here that the british are gradually going through er... released, i figuratively speaking, from the brussels bureaucracy,

they can play now, at least on the field to which they are accustomed and which historically has always belonged to them, much more actively, these are security issues, and of course set the tone in a good way, the british, well, it suits them, because they know... how it is to do, so i would like this model to be a good model, and maybe even better, the american agreement is already in the works, as far as i know, with japan, by the way, another member of the group of seven, a cooperation agreement was signed in tokyo in 2018 security sector, a special delegation there came, i was so... by the way, we signed this agreement at the naval base, it is not so broad, of course, it is

general, but it is a very rare agreement for japan in the field of security, there are only eight of them, well in including with ukraine, it is possible to expand, because the group of seven decided last year that such agreements with ukraine must be signed by all members of the groups. so we wait, and i'm just sincerely glad that the british will blow here. thank you, mr. igor, ihor kharchenko, diplomat, former ambassador of ukraine and great britain, was on our air, we continue literally in a few minutes, do not switch. there are discounts on bronkhi pred, 20% in pharmacies plantain you and save. oh with can you have some tea, mom, dad, what should i do to avoid getting sick? vitamin c, d3, zinc and, most importantly,

quercitin to strengthen blood vessels. just take quertin imuno. all in one package. in one capsule, four components together. so simple, one capsule a day. so convenient. quertin immuno. there are discounts on zzilor. 10% in pharmacies plantain to you. nothing has happened yet. not yet, zakrep. oh, normalt. honey, take a normalect. normolact eliminates constipation, normalizes the work of the intestines, restores the amount of lactobacilli and bifidobacteria. everything worked out. normolact and everything will work out. we continue the politclub program on the espressa and us tv channel. the next employee, andriy deshchytsia, diplomat, former ambassador of ukraine. in poland in 2014-22, congratulations, mr. andriy, good evening, i congratulate you, well, let's start with

the urgent, it's been several months, you can tell how the government in poland has changed, but the problems that exist in the polish-ukrainian mutual , unfortunately, they are not resolved yet, prime minister donald tust is going to the ukrainian capital, where presidents volodymyr zelensky recently met... zhydud on the way of zelensky from the baltic countries, why is the new government unable to unblock the borders and change the situation with the import of ukrainian grain, well, in fact, the government has not changed for a few months, the government only a few weeks , yes, this is only a month of the new government, but attempts and certain actions and... statements have been made by the new government, and i think that what we have already

seen gives a certain optimism, these are the contacts on level of presidents, these are meetings, visits of ministers of foreign affairs and ministers of infrastructure and ministers of agriculture, and certain statements made by donald tusk actually before his... visit to ukraine, why it was not possible to do it immediately, i think there are several there are reasons for this, first of all one should not expect that everything will be resolved immediately and... and in favor of ukraine, the coalition government of donald tusk is wide enough, and it includes those political forces that also care for the interests of their voters and their own professional bodies, first of all it is the polish

peasant party, and actually the minister of agriculture is a representative of the polish. a party that will protect the actual , well, first of all, the interests of poles and polish farmers, the same with carriers, well , in my opinion, if we are talking about carriers, there are two components: an economic one, which can be regulated, and a political one, which, well largely related to the party's support for these protests. the federation, which accordingly has ties with russia, and here, if it is clear, is interested in the fact that more, as the most strike ukraine and destabilize the situation between ukraine and poland, uh, so i think that time is still needed for both sides, kyiv and warsaw, to exchange

their positions, but again, to resolve this uh... these problems that have arisen recently in ukrainian-polish relations, in particular, those related to the protests of motor carriers and the blocking of ukrainian agricultural products or the ban of ukrainian agricultural products, to this, to these negotiations, it is necessary to involve also brussels. therefore, i think that we have many more rounds of negotiations ahead of us. but taking into account the mood of the head of the government, the prime minister of poland, i think that it will be possible to find an understanding. one more thing, one more thing, one more thing that i wanted to draw attention to, why the government did not immediately take up the solution of these issues, although it, well, some attempts were made, because the domestic political situation in

poland is quite tense, and these changes, which take place in connection with the arrival of... the government and the protests of the now opposition party of law and justice, and the position that occupied by president duda, he is quite confrontational with the government, but they do not allow this government to fully absorb the issue of resolving ukrainian-polish relations. and tell me, mr. andrii, in principle, what can be expected from the prime minister's visit to the ukrainian capital, it will be donald tusk's first visit after he takes office. the post of prime minister of poland, however, by the way, this is not his first foreign visit, i understand correctly, well, no, not the first foreign one, but eh, because he is immediately on the first the same day he went to brussels, he was once appointed or received the support of the president, he was also nominated by the president for the position of prime minister, but then he

was going to go to the baltic countries, to estonia, but in connection with ... well, it seems that with the sick prime minister, with covid, the visit of the prime minister of estonia was postponed to a later date, well, it is not so important, the statements of donald tusk about the need to support ukraine are important, and he makes these statements all the time, and the second thing is that he literally said on friday that he will not allow to play on anti-ukrainian sentiments in his government, and ultimately also those statements. that were made by tusk that security for poland and ukraine is extremely important, the issue of security is extremely important, so i think what should be expected from the prime minister's visit are, first of all, issues related to the continuation of support from the side of poland and ukraine, these are issues of support, first

of all, there is a question of military support. and the security sphere, issues of poland's support for ukraine's european integration steps, but again still, attempts to solve those problematic issues that have arisen in ukrainian-polish relations, which concern the economic bloc itself, rural issues of the export of agricultural products of ukraine, road transport, the large number of ukrainians in poland, the support of this large group. in poland, and here it should still be expected that the polish government will take into account and put it in the first place. of course, the interests of its citizens, its professional groups, and these negotiations will not be easy, but given that tusk wants to maintain a good image

a high-class european politician, i think that he will still look for approaches and compromise, and tell me, do you understand what is happening with this crisis of relations between the polish governments and the former authorities. which is now the opposition, because against the background of this arrest of the former minister of internal affairs and his deputy right in the presidential palace in warsaw, it seems to me that this has never happened in the history of poland either before the war or after the war, it certainly looks like an absolutely obvious reason for so serious confrontations, well, it seems to me that law and justice, the party of law and justice , is having a hard time losing in the... elections and leaving power, they did not expect this and they did not expect even more, it is probably the firmness and unity of this coalition government,

because the fact that it consists of four large blocs and almost 11 parties there, they expected that it would not last and would not last long, but the government quite consistently, quite firmly, i would even say harshly, takes over these positions in which law and justice dominated, and first of all it returns the rule of law to polish society, and here even i would not say that there is a confrontation between law and justice and donald tusk, because in fact the decisions that concern these two ministers. of the minister of the interior, the former minister of the interior mariusz kaminski and his deputy machonczyk, this is the court's decision, after all, about their

responsibility before polish law, and they were found guilty, and the court decided to arrest them, here if the police and the government tuska, well, it's not influential enough , it was being carried out... it was being carried out in accordance with polish law , but actually, you're absolutely right, the situation is worrying enough, tense enough, and again, going back to what, why, going back to , what i said at the beginning , why this is happening, because it seems that law and justice is looking for all possible ways to return to power faster than in four years, and there are several reasons for this, at least, let's say... a possibility, and several possibilities, some several options, at least such that

the budget, the state budget, will not be approved until january 31, and then the president has the right to dissolve the parliament and call new elections, it will look rather incompetent, but considering the fact that president andrzej duda continues to maintain good relations with the with the party of law and justice, from which he comes politically, i think that law and justice will play on this, and that's why this is all, this is all opposition and right, aimed at returning to power, law and justice as soon as possible , as far as it is technically possible maybe why can't the budget be approved? i don't understand, because the president has already pledged the draft budget once, admitting , for example, that the reason for this

budget pledge was that he recognized that it is not possible to spend such a large amount of money on public mass media, on public broadcasting, and so on blocked everything, sealed this budget, the government changed it, made changes, took it into account, brought it back to the parliament, the parliament most likely, given that the coalition has a majority, will vote for a new one, new version of the budget, but the president can again find some reasons there and again refer to some, conditionally, let's say, to spend a large amount of money on the police or on the bodies of justice, taking into account, for example, using such an argument that these bodies of justice do well, it's wrong to arrest innocent people like that. ministers or

deputies of the sejm as the minister of internal affairs and his deputy, and here there will be a reason to beg, i think that he can find grounds and arguments for this, but it leads poland to political chaos, and it seems to me that after all, president andrzej duda will have enough of a state approach in order not to do this, because these confrontations and this chaos in polish politics will not benefit anyone, but i understand correctly, that if he does not screw up the budget next time, then it will lead to his problems with the law and justice party under its leader jarosław kaczyński, that they may not give it to andrzej dud, he is obviously determined to lead the polish right after he ends his presidential term, what should he do? yes

yes. somewhere so, maybe it will be so, and yes , in some places, some people from the law and justice party believe that andrzej duda is weak, and he cannot lead the right- wing forces and the law and justice party, and now after as yaroslav kaczynski announced that he is leaving politics next year, there is a certain selection of who can be the leader, who can be... firm, strong and take the position of leader of the party of law and justice, and of course it will be will depend a lot everyone may even want to become holier than the pope and decide to make statements that would be useful to one or another politician in the process of

actually selecting the leader of the law and justice party. again, in this situation in which we are now, when the priority should be security issues and the issue of countering russian aggression, such internal certain, well, tensions in poland, they also do not contribute to the good image of poland and stability in poland. and tell me, mr. andrii, it won't be like that, what if there are early elections, the party of law and justice will lose even more votes than it was. in the previous elections, because it is already clear how the voters will react to the very fact of special elections in poland, we remember, by the way, such a mechanism was launched in bulgaria, it in no way contributed to the popularity of those who launched this mechanism . mr. vitaly, i think you are absolutely right, especially since you know poland well, but in fact, it seems to me that if new elections were held, this coalition... would get even more

votes and would strengthen even more, after all, this is what current public opinion polls show, and prime minister donald tusk said this even on friday in an interview with polish television channels, that well, some people try to tempt him to so that let's hold elections and once again strengthen ourselves enough to have a constitutional majority in the parliament, but i think... that there are actually certain personal ambitions here, why does law and justice want new elections, it seems to me that these are actually personal ambitions yaroslav kaczyński, who wants to go to this political political retirement already, which he declared the winner, not the loser, actually after these elections that were held in poland, he is going in the middle of

next year during the congress. to resign from the party and someone must be elected, so he is trying to convince the party itself, to convince the president that these elections should be held, and he believes that he will still be able to win and go to the well-deserved rest, but explain to me now that we to return to this case with the ministry of the interior, the former minister of the interior, some refer to the decision. supreme court, others refer to the decision of the constitutional tribunal, and these two judicial branches have made opposite decisions, and it is very difficult to understand whose position is more legitimate, well, because the appointment of the judges of the constitutional tribunal and also the judges of some chambers of the supreme court took place .