let's watch together, good evening, we are from ukraine. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. over the next two hours. we are talking about ukraine, the world, the war and our victory. today in the program. they shot down a plane that cannot be shot down. the air force of ukraine is writing history again. what kind of weapon can get the russian a50. the path to conflict. germany is preparing for war with russia. bild published the plans of the bundeswehr for the coming years. meeting of advisers in davos. how to achieve fair peace formula from zelenskyi and yarmak.

over the next hour , we will talk about this and other things with our guests, people 's deputies of ukraine iryna gerashchenko and valentyn nalyvaichenko, as well as oleg rybachuk, the former head of yushchenko's presidential office. in the second part of our program, which will start in an hour, we will have a political science studio. political experts viktor shlinchak and ihor will be guests. reiterovych and serhii taran. however, before we start our big conversation, let's watch a video of how the soldiers of the center are near the audio unit special operations of the asbu forced the tank occupants to evaporate, simply sweating it out in bc. let's see.

friends, for those who are currently watching us on youtube, please subscribe to our page, like this video and write your comments on what you see and hear. in addition, during this broadcast, we conduct today, we ask you about this:

will ukraine be able to win the war without western aid? yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube. if you are sitting in front of the tv and watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you believe that ukraine can win the war without western aid. 0800 211 381, no, 0800 211-382. all calls to these numbers are free at the end of the program. we will sum up the results of this vote. we are in touch with people's deputy of ukraine iryna gerashchenko. mrs. irina, i congratulate you and thank you for being with us today. thank you very much espresso for inviting me. good evening everyone. good evening. and today is a really good evening for ukraine, because there is a lot of positive news coming from the front and from outside of the political front, because literally in these minutes. the economic forum opens in

davos and there ukraine will discuss the peace formula for ukraine and probably not only for ukraine. literally an hour ago , volodymyr zelenskyi spoke with the president of switzerland and talked about the future holding of the summit regarding the mayor's formula. let's listen to what volodymyr said. speaking in switzerland, today at the meetings we noted the success of the work yesterday in the format of advisers on the peace formula, switzerland effectively organized the meeting the day before was significant expansion of the representation, already more than 80 countries, as the president said, and countries and international institutions are involved, we appreciate it as thank you to the president, her team, for

the agreement that our teams will start preparations for holding in switzerland at the level of leaders of the global . a peace summit, and this summit must fill with the necessary energy everything that has already been achieved and must determine that the end of the war must be exclusively just and the restoration of the force of international law truly complete. mrs. iryna, tomorrow is volodymyr zelensky will give a speech at the world economic summit in davos, but i have a fairly simple question for you, when we talk about... the peace formula for ukraine, should it not now be expanded to the peace formula in europe, since there are a lot of reservations from countries baltic states, the countries of western europe regarding a possible war with russia, perhaps it would be logical to expand the question of a peace formula for

the entire european continent? and it seems to me that this is logical, and we should talk about the security formula for ukraine and for europe. because it is obvious that russia, it manages to avoid any definition, and in the word peace, it puts the concept of war, as it stole. and actually, that is why it is very important that we make a sign of equality between peace and security, and indeed, not only for ukraine, but also for the european continent. otherwise, today, you said, a lot of positive news, at the same time you started your program on the analysis of foreign. and they gave only one material, there bilt gave such a big spread today, it's a german newspaper, yes, regarding the possibility there long war, and that it is possible that germany will have to be more actively involved in it, such articles

are constantly appearing in the world media, where it is very clearly recorded, even the polish media published such forecasts today. disappointed that if russia makes a breakthrough somewhere, it will cause a new wave of refugees to their country from ukraine, refugees from the war, and likewise our baltic countries, neighbors first of all realize that if russia is not stopped now, it will feel the weakness of the west, she will move on to provoke on further conflicts and the expansion of this disorder and its spheres of influence. mrs. irina, but it is quite logical. a question that was probably also asked when the g20 summit was held, zelenskyi was not allowed to speak, they said, well, we have economic issues in general, and although this summit virtually predicted the possible participation of volodymyr zelenskyi, he is there, he was not given a word

to say then , now there will be a world economic forum, and how often does the world combine what is happening in ukraine with its... future, economic future, well in mind, do they see the cause-and-effect relationship that russia's war against ukraine, it works against each of the participants of the world economic forum, and the ukrainian delegation, ukrainians should say this directly to those people on whom the economic future of the world depends, the war has actually been going on for 10 years now, and we're going to... we're coming up on the second anniversary of the full-scale invasion, and i've been involved in both the delegations that used to be there in davos for the annual economic forum, and at the time poroshenko's presidency, and even then we as deputies visited in previous years during

zelenskyi's presidency, and it is worth noting that davos always really lives not only in ukraine, not only in europe, unfortunately, often still... important issues are discussed there , problems of the global economy there , problems of ecology, there is covid , there is anything, security, of course, but even in the 22nd year, in the 22nd year, due to covid, the forum was held for the first time not in winter, in may, and that was, still a full-scale war had just begun then, ukraine was definitely there in the center of attention, but it was not the only topic. and you are right that the world is divided, in fact, if our european partners are aware of the risks, the continuation of the war and its prolongation, then the countries of the global south know little about the war and are not involved

in putting pressure on russia. for example, i am very confused by the fact that only countries, essentially the g7 and the eu joined the sanctions against the russian federation, but in... these two years it was already able to bypass them through third countries and by adjusting its exports and importing dual purpose goods, which she uses as we see, yes, and in the military-industrial complex, it receives, unfortunately, missiles from north korea, from iran, these drones, and it is obvious that our expectation that the world will still more actively join the essential pressure not only against russia, but also against those companies and countries that play along with the aggressor, and it seems to me that this site is so unique davos, where... not only european countries are present, but also many countries of the global south, there is also asia very active america,

should be used primarily for reporting this position that the war will last as long as the russian economy has the finances for it, there will be money for it, and that is why there should be such a serious blow here, and in this context the last remark, i think the discussion that has finally started in the united states is important . regarding the possibility of seizure of russian assets, their confiscation in favor of ukraine. moscow has already stated that they are considering such possibilities of lawsuits and court cases, but this definitely worries them. it seems to me that the sooner russian assets around the world will be seized, these frozen funds, absolutely corrupt and terrorist, the sooner there is a chance to get closer to peace. may i say, ms. irena, what tomorrow and today are in davos. will work precisely those people and those politicians, those businessmen

on whom the future of the world depends, and that this is the center of decision-making, important decisions also regarding the future of russia, because it is clear that there are presidents of countries, and there is a business elite that also affects the presidents of countries and also affects the world economy. undoubtedly, the argument forum is a unique... platform where you can to present the country's position, and there are still opportunities to hold bilateral talks of various formats, and therefore it seems to me that the ukrainian delegation needs to use this time as actively as possible, this is the first thing, and secondly, you are right that this year is an election year , not only in the united states, not only in russia, where the pseudo re-election of putin will take place, and this should also be discussed at the davos forum, where... the main topic there is always the global economy and the risks associated with security there, but

democracy remains also a field of attention, important davos, and it is worth talking about the fact that these elections will be illegitimate, putin is going to hold them in the occupied ukrainian territories, how the world, how the world dares to recognize such blasphemy, these will be elections in the countries of the european union, and there can be a lot of changes , these will be elections in... great britain, where there may also be changes, and actually, i think, that is why ukraine should realize that from the point of view of the economic situation, this year is difficult for us, all the leaders will be focused on internal problems , of course they need ukraine with the points of view of their fight for democracy, fight for rules are international, but ukraine should also show respect for these international norms of democracy and not let any of our skeptics in some countries, well

, you know, be disappointed in certain things that can be internally occur. of course, from the bottom of our hearts, we wish the ukrainian delegation good luck, success and successful negotiations. i also wanted to ask you about this davos forum or summit or meeting, the davos meeting, let's say. both advisers to the presidents regarding the peace formula, and zelenskyi already commented on this meeting and said that ukraine and its partners are reducing russia's confidence in the ability to impose a predatory world order with the help of terror. let's listen to what zelensky said. owners the russians think that they are supposedly capable of using violence and terror, their lies and

cruelty to impose some other predatory world order without rules, without any security guarantees. it is their confidence, the confidence of the killers, that we are now all together reducing at every meeting for the sake of normal international law, by constant expansion of our international work, to new regions, to new states, to new agreements and for the sake of greater security. in... ukrainian initiatives are gradually becoming global initiatives. i am grateful to everyone who helps in this. actually , i wanted to ask you, mrs. iryna, about the... representation and organizers of this action, which is taking place in different countries, that is , yermamak is now the number one person in this process, he is not the minister of foreign affairs, i did not see that dmytro kulebu's forum, and i have them quite logically the question, actually, is it normal when

the head of the presidential office takes upon himself... chooses to take upon himself the authority to moderate such and such a meeting and is it possible normally if the president can instruct yermak to perform such a function, or yermak performs the role of state secretary of the ukrainian state, so, how do you look at it? and firstly, it is obvious that we advocate for the ministry of foreign affairs to be maximally... involved in international negotiations and international events, this is their direct duty, this is their direct work, and in fact it is also very important for the world to observe the rules and norms that are understood here, this is the first, second, i do not want to devalue the efforts of the authorities on the peace process, i know that it is all difficult and not easy, at the same time, it is really important,

well, to remember that this is not the first meeting in the format of advisers, i think it was only this past year. two or three such meetings, and the key negotiators in it are really not only the head of the president's office, but also the freelance advisers of the president's office, which is generally surprising, because these people do not have no mandate from the state , they are not even considered to be in the civil service, they, if they have access to state secrets, well , there, for example, mr. yarmak is sitting in the back at these meetings, the woman is equal, but she is a freelance adviser to the president's office, and the questions they have to... to closed information, secret, if so, then this is also a violation of the relevant legislation, it is obvious that there should be maximum involvement of ukrainian diplomacy, secondly, i want to say once again, we welcome all the efforts of the authorities there to bring victory closer, peace, we realize how difficult it is not only to unite

the anti-putin coalition, but here it is necessary not to destroy it, when, for example, on the eve of the vilnius nato summit... some strange text message is sent, and there is a tweet that, well, causes such, you know, emotional rejection of partners, this there is no need to do it, after all, now is the time for very serious diplomacy regarding the preparations for the summit of leaders, which was announced by the representatives of the authorities, let me also remind you that this is not new information , last year, after several such meetings also in the format of advisers, it was announced what is their key preparation... the key task is to prepare the summit, it is obvious to everyone who is involved in foreign policy that the summit is not being held just like that, the time for the summit is when there are already certain grounds for the meeting and the opportunity to either sign a certain document or move in the negotiation process.

it is clear that today russia is not showing any, or even hints that it is ready to... change its aggressive policy, and so, of course, we have to be with our partners, who have to continue to put pressure on russia here in order to stop the aggression. the key diplomat is actually, you are asking about the composition of the delegation, it is important that there are professional diplomats, our foreign minister, who, for example, we have spent too much time in the parliament, as we saw last friday when risha sunak, the prime minister in britain, he spoke in... the parliament, such a ukrainian government appeared, this is not normal, after all, they should be in dialogue with the parliament, but our key interlocutor and the diplomat are the armed forces of ukraine, and you rightly said that today is the day of the beautiful news, because our armed forces shot down two russian planes there, and this is confirmed by the commander-in-chief, and when

there is such positive news from the front against the background of the internationally important visit of president zelensky to davos, this is the best thing, actually... this is a body for negotiations, in order to the ukrainian authorities felt more confident, so i want to first of all thank the armed forces of ukraine, who give the opportunity to all our negotiating teams, you know, to strongly defend and demand ukraine's support there, and we should all be here worthy of our armed forces. thank you, mrs. iryna, for your participation in our program, it was iryna gerashchenko, people's deputy of ukraine. friends, we are working live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us on the internet, please do not forget to like, do not be stingy, support our broadcasts, support our pages, we work for you, in addition, during the broadcast we conduct a survey, we ask you about whether ukraine can win a war without western

help, yes no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you sit in front of the tv and watch our telecast, pick up your phone and vote if you think that ukraine can win the war without western help 0.800-211-381, no, 0800 -211-382 all. these numbers are free, call, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. next, we are in touch with people's deputy of ukraine, former head of the security service of ukraine valentyn nalyvaichenko. mr. valentin, i congratulate you and thank you for being you with us today good evening, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. indeed, today is not such a very good day for ukraine and for the armed forces of ukraine and especially for the air force of ukraine. because our defense forces destroyed an a500 long-range radar detection aircraft and an enemy il-22m air control post over

the sea of ​​azov, this seems to be one of the largest single-moment losses of russian aviation in the war, the armed forces managed to do this, and what does this mean, sir valentine, what... the armed forces of ukraine received some weapons, which they now get there, where did the russians not think that they would get them? yes , it gets it, yes, our air defense forces and the armed forces of ukraine are gradually receiving it, and in certain directions they have already received it, so far the working name is , you know, boroh did not understand in advance what it is, it is called a wandering patriot, but in fact it is more. high-precision systems , which are now the most serious air forces of the enemy, and over the sea of ​​azov the downing of the long-range truly radiological

detection of the a50 aircraft, which you told sergey, means, firstly, that it is the first time in history, and secondly, that an entire complex has been destroyed detection on our territory of all air, all land and even sea... those objects of the targets that should be protected, but due to the presence until recently in the russian federation of the armed forces of the aggressor of such soviet aircraft, by the way, a50, they managed to 400 km deep to look at our territory and our sky, it is clear that it is not just to look, but to endanger, for example, native zaporizhzhia, the dnipro, the anniversary, the anniversaries, the first... of the terrorist missile attack on the dnipro was yesterday, january 14, yes from introduction of s300 and s-400 - these are also these a50s. these ballistics, which penetrate up to

300-400 km, and from 300 it is 300 km, from 400 - 400, are guided by such radar, flying terrorist stations. and one more thing, our heroes should be congratulated also with the fact that russia never. from the word will never again be able to produce such an aircraft, that is, this destruction is final, was, is not, and will never be able to have such an a50 in russia again , although, according to various estimates, they still have three or four of them left, but how many of them are operational condition, how many of them are capable of causing such damage as this one did specific a50, this is a huge question, i was just now communicating and reading in the west. western special services, as they assess, really assess this as a huge historical success of the armed forces of ukraine and the air defense of ukraine, and experts also add, i

agree with them, such crews, such operators, who were destroyed together with the plane, and theirs on the a50-15 , at least in the crew of guidance and tracking operators, russia will never be able to take it from anywhere again, that is , you know, this is such a serious blow to the aggressor and his ability to control our territory and to aim terrorist russian missiles at our territory. the publication forbes calculated that the cost of these two planes, which were shot down yesterday by the air force of the armed forces of ukraine, is more than 530 million dollars. during the war, the ukrainians destroyed more than 300 planes and more than 300 aircraft . in your opinion, can

russia, if not the a500, at least rapidly produce aircraft and replenish its aircraft fleet? no and never. this is final. a50s and il-22s, in fact, and a50s, long range radar detection, it's such a huge platform, a huge radar base, it was never and never produced, it was not produced by russia, it was from the soviet times for... there were 14 such a50 aircraft left in russia at that time. the same applies to il-22. we have unfairly said little about the downing of this plane by our air force, and i will say that this is actually also a flying command headquarters, this is a flying relay, because for people to understand why it is so difficult for our defenders on the front lines because enemy aircraft, they would have a temporary

advantage until we got the f-16. but guides, coordinates and works as a command and communication point in the sky, just such an il-22, and this, dear tv viewers, is already the third such il-22 destroyed by the armed forces of ukraine. i will remind you that at the beginning of the war , the first such flying command headquarters was destroyed, il 22nd together with the communications, the second ones helped us, and that's good, the wagnerites overwhelmed the prigozhyns. do you remember, during the rebellion and the march to moscow, they inside russia had another one, already this evening yesterday, this is the success of our armed forces, another one, and this the third destroyed flying command headquarters and command center, and i confirm, and this is so, russia will not be able to restore and do this again, and russia did not make such planes, and they remained and remained, unfortunately, now for

us russia in a legacy after... the collapse of the soviet union and the a-50 and il-22. mr. valentin, on the night of january 13 , the defense forces reported that during a mass attack on ukraine , 20 air targets that were moving towards ukraine did not reach their goal, but these targets, or these missiles, or shaheds, were not there and in the downed statistics, what does this mean that in ukraine... a powerful uh radio- electronic system of the reb fight against these missiles appeared, because so far no one has commented, but logic suggests that this is probably what happened , so we still may not be enough, but finally modern radio-electronic warfare appears, that is, systems that can blind, disorient, or even

knock summer out of touch. russian terrorist terrorists and russian terrorist missiles, so far, it is clear that it is not enough, but our experts are also working to ensure that ukraine more of its own was produced by radio-electoral struggle stations, and together with international partners, we manufacture, receive, and most importantly, use. we seem to have been one of the first to say on your broadcast that ukraine has begun to create a digital sky, and that's exactly what the guys and such... topics together with modern radar systems from different countries, including ukrainian ones, all these are such components components of the digital sky, which as soon as we complete, and we will complete its creation in the near future, the situation will be completely different from the point of view protection of our ukrainian sky, hence cities, villages, and most importantly our defenders at the front from airstrikes and airstrikes. russia and

one more thing, you also have it back in the 22nd year, i remember in may, in april, you and i were the first to discover sergey and we said that russian rockets did not reach 10% then in the 22nd year , because they were simply of poor quality, were simply technically imperfect or could not fly in principle. now the percentage of such unfinished, technically defective, or, you know, in bad shape. state of terrorist russians missiles, their relative number has increased up to 20%, this is also to our advantage, and therefore, no matter how much russian propaganda hides, they cannot even hide the fall of missiles already on the territory of russia itself, on the heads of the russians themselves, and such falls as you understand, not one and not two and not three, but dozens during each such terrorist attack, and there will be more.