blow from the kremlin, therefore, it is good that a conversation is now starting on this topic, it is good that answers are being sought, but it is very bad that in the course of this discussion isolationist notes and positions appear, well, similar to trumpism, orbanism, fizo, slovakianism and so on further, that is, these are weaknesses that are clearly visible. and in many other states, the carriers of which there is an alternative for germany, in germany, the nazi movements, also in certain german states and so on, i am not saying anymore, but right-wing populist radicals or left-wing radicals, which are also added to such a rhetoric that flirts with putin, that increasingly provokes him to ikhtamnet

operations. mr. roman, andrzej duda, the president of poland met with volodymyr zelenskyi in davos, and they talked about the future of ukraine and poland, of course, but duda believes that the process of ukraine joining the north atlantic alliance can be launched even before the end of the war. let's listen to what andrzej duda said. must win this war, and victory in this war will mean the withdrawal of the russians from the occupied lands of ukraine. any other outcome of the war would mean victory for russia. if russia wins this war, it will continue its aggressive policy. and this is extremely dangerous for the future not only of ukraine, but also for the future of europe. because, if russia continues its aggressive policy, it will almost certainly attack again. and we will get another one. mr. roman,

is it possible to wait for the washington nato summit to at least invite ukraine to the north atlantic alliance? my belief, my firm belief, was and remains that this event was actually transmitted from vilnius to washington. the only thing that me now points to... a little pessimistic prospects - is this the beginning of the signing of agreements on security guarantees? mr. serhiy, here is an interesting thing, as if it is an international agreement, but it is not submitted for ratification by the parliament, and if it is limited to two years.

at times, and all this leads me to think that as a result of the complex signing of these agreements, which have not been ratified by the ukrainian parliament and the parliaments of the countries with which they are signed, they can prepare for us, well, let's say, an intermediate answer, i am trying to be as correct as possible now. but to speak, because such agreements, which are not submitted for ratification in the parliament, have, well , a very clear name, a very clear name, i would recommend now to those who lead this process, to those who work on it, to think about what i i said now, because it is very difficult, then over time we will have to explain, actually, why similar... documents do not go through

the ratification procedure, therefore, hoping that ukraine will still receive an invitation to nato in washington, i draw attention to those who involved in this process, which i think they do not think a bit, to carry it out, carrying out its accompaniment. mr. roman, literally. a few days ago, one of the potential candidates for the post of president of the united states of america and the former president of the united states of america, donald trump, said that he can stop the war if he sits at the same table with putin and zelensky, and he knows how to do it , zelensky was asked, he was in davos today, he was asked about what he thinks is possible... that trump can

stop the war if he comes to authorities let's listen to what zelensky said. that is, he, he decided what if. don't freeze the conflict, if you let putin go all the way into ukraine, then he will stop, because that won't happen, putin won't stop, the question now is what donald trump will do in the usa after that, because then it means that europe has lost , lost and lost the biggest and most powerful. army in europe, because it will lose ukraine. well, the translation is quite difficult, or the president spoke very difficult, explained, well , the essence is clear, what will trump do if putin will not stop after he comes to power and convinces putin to stop, we

can say something about what the united states of america will be like. when trump comes to power, to what extent will the mechanisms that exist and the safeguards that exist in the united states of america prevent trump from doing what he is saying now during the rhetoric in the state primaries? first, well , there are actually answers to this question, i recommend that those who want to find it, read bolton, then the room where it happened, i think so... the book is called because donald trump has already managed to agree and resolve all issues with kim chin-un, with xi jinping, only bolton describes very well how angry trump is, while promising to resolve

the issue of the denuclearization of north korea and to find a solution to all issues with china, as a result everything. it turned into trump requesting that both winnie the pooh, kim jong-un, and the red dictator xi jinping buy soybeans from united states farmers because the farmers would then support trump. that is, everything here is clear to me, and what trump says during the election process is just an election process. now, as for the actual step. fortunately, the president of the united states of america has a rather small maneuver, because since the time of obama, all these issues have been transferred to congress, and the current situation, it shows even more the influence

of congress, and the only trouble is that the election campaign and the situation in the republican party, within the party itself, it brings certain problems today. including for solving issues of urgent aid to ukraine in accordance with the plans that the congress itself adopted, but i am convinced , i hope, that the issues will be resolved there, especially since today there is actually a meeting of president joe biden with representatives of both the majority and the minority, both in the senate and in the house of representatives. as for trump and the prospects, well, we still need to get to the finals, see who will win there, and as you see, mr. sergey, with, mr. sergey, excuse me, with the transition of power in the united states of america in 24-25 are worried,

including even the possibility of an attack the moscow fuehrer on europe, that is , in fact, trump and... trumpism is a big test for the united states of america , first of all, but it is the americans' business to elect this or that president, they will be responsible for it. trumpism , as a brother of isolationism, is a very bad thing in the current conditions, and it is precisely this trumpism that sickens orban and fico, and one must... understand that it is a virus, it is a virus that was thrown by putinism, the moscow führer, and it is very contagious, because he is, as it were, for the protection of certain national interests, as if for rhetoric

of kishenkov's patriotism, carries a colossal problem in the civilized world, in countering an aggressor like putin. and it greatly harms the necessary unification of the european community and the entire world of democratic civilized forces in opposition. to the moscow führer, the red chinese dictator, and the iranian ayatollahs, well , such as lukashenko and kim jong-un, who are a huge tragedy and a great trouble for the korean, north korean people, and the belarusian people, that is, in fact, such figures are political, and i i would call them... quasi figures, they are currently very harmful to the unification of democracy, the unification

of the civilized world in opposition to aggressive, aggressive axes of evil. mr. roman, i wanted to ask you about one more event, how it will actually affect the development of the situation in russia, because today in bashkortostan, omon dispersed a protest of several thousand people who gathered under a building. the court where fail alsynov was tried is an eco-activist, a person who openly opposed russia's war with ukraine, he was sentenced to four years in prison for inciting inter-ethnic enmity, thousands of people came to the courthouse, began to protest, omon began to disperse them, they began to beat them there, somewhere around 300 people were thrown. on the side of omon, can we expect that

something similar will happen in russia in individual subjects of the federation, which sooner or later will lead to the collapse of russia, or at least the central government's focus on the situation in russia, and not in ukraine ? well, the fact is that if we take russia. then such - national formations and republics, as tatarstan, bashkortostan, they most self-identify as national groups, and even during the collapse of the soviet union, who remembers, they claimed and declared their own statehood. can we say that the current events carry a potential threat to putin's regime,

certainly yes, and these events are not only happening in bashkokrostan, they are happening in other cities as well. another thing is that they don't always find information on the pages of the mass media, because all this is very much closely monitored, suppressed by the repressive, führer machine of the russian federation. i hope that the situation there , it will develop further, especially since the verdict, i had to get acquainted with some of the facts of the accusation, with the claims against pail alsymov, and one must understand that this is a completely fabricated case, and the essence of it is precisely, including ... claims against the leader of the protest movement for inciting

inter-ethnic enmity, although, ah, the one who wrote these conclusions, well, they, they simply do not understand elementary speech peculiarities of bashkirs, and are not able to analyze them, so they attribute to the protester himself, and everyone... to the group of activists who united with him, some inter-ethnic slogans there, and so on, claims that do not actually exist, so, it is clear , that the protest movement will accumulate there, but can he, let's say, in some way, in addition to claims about the resignation of the head of the republic, now be brought. to more serious things, well, let's hope for that, although, when today on

the video i saw how they were thrown at the gendarmes with gloves and hats, i understood very well that you cannot break through those metal shields with gloves or a hat, well , this is such a light version of the maidan in bashkortostan and the arbitrariness of the security forces in this situation. may god give them a wolf to eat our calf, but it is clear from everything that... people want, but there are no leaders, and the organization of this protest is clear from everything, it wants to be better, and the situation worsens in russia, socio-economic, can very shortly lead to some explosions, or they are used to living so badly,

as many have not lived there, and we will not start and everything will turn out, well, the fact is that russia is not capable of... organized protest, it is capable of rebellion, razina, pugacheva, and about the russian rebellion, everything has been said about him, he is so cruel that in the end he turns against the very carriers and the idea of ​​this riot, you see, this is the key difference between the ukrainian protest, from the european protest of any european nation, from the riot, because... the ukrainian protest , he always has a goal, he it has slogans, it carries meaning, it is organized, and this, well, it is just a riot, and this riot will end with the fact that this unfortunate man will be put in a cage, for me this image will haunt me all my life like an owl, and they will be carried around and shown, like a beast all over

great russia, thank you, thank you, mr. roman, for. conversation, it was roman bezsmertny, politician and diplomat, friends, we work live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, we conduct polls, today we ask you about this, do you trust journalistic investigations, yes, no, everything is quite simple, vote , we will also vote in the second part of the program, 93% yes, 7% - no, in the second part of the program, which will start in 15 minutes, we will have political experts, oleksiy holobutsky, oleksan and victor boberenko, stay on our channel, don't switch. it will be interesting, hello, this is svoboda ranok, an informational project of radio svoboda, top guests every day, this is

the shipping district, kherson, live broadcast, we are somewhere in the vicinity. bakhmut, let's tell you the main thing. on weekdays at 9:00. congratulations, friends, live on the tv channel, verdict program. my name is serhiy rudenko. we continue our broadcast and our program in this part of the program. see eternal war. medvedev threatens not to let go, even if ukraine joins nato. what does this mean for global security? provocations against investigative journalists became more frequent. who does the government a disservice with the snake. russian narratives in the media. how does an aggressor affect the information space of ukraine and

the world. friends, let me remind you that we are working. live on the tv channel, as well as on our channels platforms on youtube and facebook, for those who are currently watching us on these platforms, please like this video to trend on these platforms and subscribe to our pages on youtube and facebook. also, take part in our poll, today we're running a poll, a big poll for two hours of our broadcast, we're asking you this, do you trust journalistic... yes, no, please vote on youtube, or with that button, yes or no, you can write your comment below air, and share your thoughts, if you watch us on tv, please pick up the phone and vote, if you trust journalistic investigations, that is, quality journalistic investigations, not drains and commissioned

investigations, then 0800 211 381, no 08021. 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. i would like to introduce the guests of today's studio. so, these are political experts: oleksa akyan, oleksiy holobutsky, and viktor boberenko. gentlemen, i welcome you, thank you for being with us today. good health. today we will have such a big, big conversation about journalists, about accusations, about surveillance, about what is happening. let's be very brief, literally in the blitz format, do you trust journalistic investigations, you all have a relationship with political technologies and

will probably answer with skepticism about journalistic investigations, because some journalistic investigations are journalistic investigations, and there are some texts that are pseudo-investigations, and you probably exactly with we faced this, mr. viktor, we will start with you, and the russians. excuse me for quoting a russian proverb, they have a lot of them, but it is very appropriate here, yes, volkadav is right, but lyudoyeet is not, likewise, and i will say that there are journalistic investigations, for example, nikolova, who is currently the office of the president is being attacked, or there are the same butusovs there, well, well, let's not repeat the last name. there are journalists, and there are pseudo-journalists, who, well, let's put it this way, there are nikolovs, and there is dubinsky, dubinsky was once thought to be a journalist, or i will not

channels to name, which ones are there, well, in the common people they call it g + g, there is no journalism there, thank you, mr. viktor, mr. olezh, well, first of all, the vast majority of what is passed off as an investigation is not. are outpourings, are really low-quality, media activity that cannot be called an investigation. among what is an investigation, again, i trust, but i check, because even people with famous surnames can have situations when they are given a bar, even among the media, which are authoritative, they can often be used in the dark. and the key here is important, that journalism is about the fourth. and this also implies responsibility, and in particular for accusations and in particular for investigations , the author is also responsible for the fact that the data there are really verified, the sources there

are reliable, and these accusations are not baseless , because it is always easier to blame than to be the one who makes excuses, and if journalists really recognize and know this responsibility, then they prepare high-quality investigations, and such investigations are then at the basis of... the most significant political shifts and events, therefore, without journalistic follow-up , no democracy can exist, this is one of the key and basic necessities for democracy, after all, if there is no democracy, then there is no journalism, it exists only in democracy, because of this, journalists are the cerberus of democracy, that is why they are also on share such power in the eyes of society, and that is why we talk about the category of trust in relation to them. thank you, mr. oleksiy, do you trust me? journalistic investigations, well, here the question is not trust or confidence, so to speak, in journalistic investigations, in principle, it

questions, well, of some values , so to speak, ah, i have all these scandals, which, well, i don't even want to discuss them, so there with bigus, i don't understand at all what bigus has to do with it, my god, i have... there was also an office in which people were engaged, apparently, not only in sniffing, something, but in much worse, but i did not bear any responsibility, it is absolutely normal, we, we are not elected by the people, just like journalists, we not occupying any positions, we are free people in a free country, in principle, yes, if this is a crime, please announce a criminal the thing is, if people rest , how they want to rest, let them rest, it 's about... insightful, in general, there's a vile situation there , absolutely everything is clear, you don't even want to burn yourself, a terrible situation, it reminds me of a situation i remember with

portnikov once, well old people probably remember this situation like this, but at the moment for me it is a sign that the government is in a huge crisis. simply, simply a huge crisis, and measures to somehow close this crisis in them, on unfortunately, they are the same ones that were 10, 15 and 20 years ago, so the problem is not in trust, of course, that everyone, known to us all, serozha, i will not name the surname, yes, he made his career in journalism research by simply receiving a flash drive. with kompromat from one structure about just that and that's it, it's certainly not journalistic research, but still it's also a manifestation of freedom of speech, about a manifestation, a carving of thoughts, it should be. hey,

hey, even if it's just a fight of kompromats, but still it has to exist, so of course, no question again, not in trust, in the fact that it must exist, because if it does not exist, other institutional opportunities to cover certain things, first of all, corruption, arbitrariness of the authorities, we simply do not have, simply do not have and that's all, nothing can be done, well, gentlemen, do you want that? or not, but let's still talk about what happened with bigus from the company, we are not talking about any substances that the company's employees used there, we are talking about illegal listening and illegal video recording, because the security service of ukraine is already saying the same thing today about announced, declares that it is investigating the circumstances of illegal video recording and wiretapping of representatives of the bigusinfo project, openly criminal. proceedings

according to article 359 of the criminal code of ukraine, illegal acquisition of sales or the use of special technical means of obtaining information, well, they promise transparent and unhindered work of independent and professional police. denys bigus, who was in the south for two years, fought and arrived, as he himself admitted, on the eve of the new year and arrested. this whole story and poured out this compromising material regarding the operators who ordered some narcotics there, and he also commented on this story later, he said that what struck him the most was that for a whole year it turns out that all the people who worked in his project, in the project of investigative journalism , and fragments of intercepted conversations were edited from several episodes that were months apart, let's listen to

what denys bigus said. this does not look like a spontaneous action of revenge for some specific material, it is a systematic long-term monitoring and persecution to discredit the work the team, the work she's done over the years and years, and i don't know how this story can discredit our content, but she is, or you? the logic is quite simple, what to expect from them, look , drug addicts, what they can tell there , basically the same thing that was once accused of president zelensky, when he ran for the post of head of state in the 19th year, he used to go there, donated blood, proved that he does not use narcotics, but the irony of the situation is that precisely during the presidency zelenskyi unfolds... about

eavesdropping, about video recording with the participation of journalists, and this also in a certain way characterizes both the government and the state, because it is not only about the government and the attitude of the government or, let's say, people close to the government, because journalists , the investigators have a lot of people there who can take revenge on them or eavesdrop, but not so many people who can professionally organize this eavesdropping and ... video recording, mr. victor, how do you perceive this story in the context of what is happening in the state, as this affects, well, the general perception and the fact that yuriy nikolov and the bigus company were immediately under attack this week, first of all, please note sergey, you and i know everything about zelenskyi, and we know that he

did not donate blood, he did donate blood po... and zelensky was just a bit ashamed to donate blood, although he was the first to offer to donate blood and see who sniffs what and who does what, but i will say the following, all journalists, honest and truthful journalists are under threat, and you already they said that, i just have to confirm your thesis that someone else will behave, someone will believe there and ... someone will say it later , well, they are all the same, who do you believe, my god, what kind of journalists and investigators are they, they are like poking around, sniffing something else there, something else there followers is lgbt there or not, well, in general , quiet horror, but the matter is different, the matter is different, that's what i would like to emphasize, that you imagine that someone you...