serhii rudden literally in a few moments we watch together. good evening, we are from ukraine. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program. my name is serhiy rudenko, i greet everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next two hours, we will talk about ukraine, the world, the war, and our victory. today in the program. "cotton at the marine base near sevastopol and the oil storage in st. petersburg. long-range weapons of the armed forces of ukraine are reaching further. dozens of new south caesars. france announced an artillery coalition for ukraine. umero participated remotely. meals for military personnel in kyiv universities at inflated prices. a new investigation of the "our money" project.

we will talk about this and other things for the next hour with our guests, journalist tetyana nikolayenko, major of the armed forces of ukraine ihor lapin and diplomat oleksandr khariya. in the second part of our program, which will start in exactly one hour, people's deputies of ukraine oksana savchuk, ivanna klympush tsintsadze and oleksandr merezhko. however, before starting our big conversation, let's watch a video of how the crew of the ukrainian bradley 47th of a separate mechanized brigade effectively destroys the enemy t-90 breakthrough, let's see. friends, for those who are currently watching us live on youtube and facebook, please like this. videos, subscribe to our

pages on these platforms, and also take part in our survey. today we ask you about whether the president is responsible for the corruption of the ministry of defense, yes, no, if you are sitting in front of the tv and have a phone at hand, you can call 0800 211 381, yes, he is responsible, no, 0800 211 3802. all calls to these numbers are free, call, at the end of the program we will sum up. his vote, we have the first guest on the phone, tetyana nikolayenko, a member of the public anti-corruption council under the ministry of defense of ukraine, a censornet journalist. mrs. tatiana, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. well, in the blitz format, i will also ask you about whether the president is responsible for the corruption of the ministry of defense, since you know about corruption for sure, much more, maybe even the president, but honestly. it would be so very

this answer is simple, in fact, even the minister of defense is often not responsible for corruption in this ministry, because it is at such low levels, where it is very difficult to catch it, but it is thanks to such corruption that we then have stories about the enrichment of tatyana glinina, so what if we are talking, for example, about food for the military, then there exactly... if all schemes take place, then they take place at the level of military units, and it is there that products are written off, or low-quality products are supplied, and they turn a blind eye to this, and as a result , instead of supplying conditionally, the company supplies some meat, or a higher -grade sausage, it supplies a third-grade sausage, and it gets a huge margin, it is obvious that the president here definitely does not know about such you.

corruption, and even the minister does not know about them , but nevertheless, they exist, there are other things that already concern, for example, the purchase of weapons, and i often wonder why the crimes of certain companies, the non-delivery of weapons, are not investigated in ukraine properly, and especially if we we are talking, for example, about the agreement of the lviv arsenal, and when the ministry of defense does not receive supplies under this contract for more than a year, it even goes to court, but in fact, this case is at the level of the national police, although i think that there should be more important articles , and at the same time the persons involved in the case, they live peacefully in the czech republic, no one is looking for them... no one is looking for them, and at the same time

they are running a business, they are involved in more than one corruption scheme, and our law enforcement officers for some reason... do not see these people, although they are directly related to such a person, like andriy hmyrin, who two years ago was very involved in the president's office, but, but ms. tetyana, ignorance, or not that the president does not know about it, or the minister of defense does not know about it, does not exempt from responsibility, that is, if the minister does not know that they are stealing from him there, or that they are trying to pay inflated prices, well, how did they dig up our money, that... the ministry of defense entered into agreements with zavas at inflated prices will feed the personnel of military educational institutions, who study at the national aviation university and in kyiv shevchenko national university , if, if they do not know this, or they do not

have this information, it does not mean that they are not responsible for this, because if they do not know, then they, well, at least the minister of defense. he is still responsible for what happens in his department, isn't that right? and look, it is obvious that they bear political responsibility for this, and the same happened in the case of oleksiy reznikov, that whether he knew how to oppose 17, he did not yet know, he did not yet know about the specifics of the purchase contract jacket in a company that is somehow connected with relatives of the people's deputy, but one way or another he bore his political responsibility. and accordingly, the president also has consequences for himself, perhaps even unconscious of him, but they are reflected in one way or another on his rating, and in the end, this is probably such an objective reality, even if in principle there are no grounds for legal prosecution for you, according to certain things are all

the same and we respond in one way or another, someone to reputation, someone to a position, well, someone to another way, you are now a member of the public anti-corruption council. at the ministry of defense, your public council sees more of what happens in the ministry of defense of ukraine, and journalists, respectively, investigators, than anti-corruption bodies, or not? that is, the ratio of how many public scandals there are around procurements and abuses of money in the ministry of defense of ukraine and the reaction of anti-corruption bodies to this, why... journalists are quite often ahead of anti-corruption bodies, although our anti-corruption bodies the best in europe, well, we have known about this since 2016, well, look, there was no way we could get ahead of the journalists in the 17-egg scandal, we were actually already

created as a public anti-corruption council after this scandal happened, and obviously, that we are not an investigative body and we see our function as correcting those things that are in the ministry of defense, they do not contain corruption risks, so, for example, it is obvious to me that if we do not change the supplies of the ministry of defense there and do not break them separately food groups, then we will never overcome the monopoly of certain groups that exist, which exists now, and they will supply our army with food until the end of time, and it is obvious that clay will eventually buy not only hotels in croatia, but also... . and some palaces in great britain, or i don't know, some skyscrapers in the united states, but because it is basically impossible to create competition for these companies under such conditions, therefore our task is precisely to see these corruption risks and create some

institutional mechanisms, which would change the rules of the game, including there to review some technical conditions and specifications for certain goods, so that it does not happen that we each have 17 years. there is a monopoly of one supplier, and even if we start to break it now, we will not be able to do it, and because it is impossible to create a competitor for them so easily from the start, and the fact that the law enforcement officers do not cope, well, this is a question for the law enforcement officers, we we are in constant contact with the national anti-corruption bureau, and other law enforcement agencies are not eager to communicate with us, but we are trying. keep in touch and be interested, how is this or that investigation taking place, including there and in what concerns the 17th case and some other stories, because the ministry of defense procurements of the national bank of ukraine began to be investigated earlier too, but as always with our

investigations, they last much longer than the public record interest in this or that, yesterday, ms. that... the ministry of defense of ukraine terminated the last contract with the lviv businessman ihor hrenkevych, one of the largest suppliers of the department, he is suspected of having caused a crash. in the state budget by almost 1 billion hryvnias, this is quite such a big deal, and a high-profile issue that is currently being talked about in society, well, at least in western ukraine , for sure, within the borders of ukraine, maybe not so much, but in lviv there is a lot of talk about it, according to you could, could one person, how many 33 companies did he have. or 23 companies that concluded 23 contracts, 33 contracts, yes, like you,

how, how could he do it, abuse it and wash it out of the budget there, or cause losses of uah 1 billion, and no one saw this, or seen already it's late, when this 1 billion was already taken, but look, the story is how his companies got these contracts in general, this is... the story itself, what about summer-winter jackets, the scandal over which there was in the summer, and for what in fact, minister reznikov paid with his position, but in the case of the same contracts of the hrynkevichs, it is the same story, because these losses amount to a billion hryvnias, they were caused, including for the non-fulfillment of 23 contracts, according to which the companies were supposed to supply jackets, pants, t-shirts, shirts, underpants. ah, and this should have been done by a company whose profile is ah the method of activity was construction

activity. ah, eh, by what kind of a miracle these companies were selected by the ministry of defense in order to supply er textiles, ah, it is unknown, and accordingly, even concluding contracts with them should become a marker of corruption risks, and so it was it is written in the accounting chamber, and that in principle the ministry of defense. should not have entered into contracts with these companies, because it itself created risks that these goods would not be delivered, since the company did not have any capacity for sewing these products, so of course there were some contacts in hronkiewicz in the ministry of defense, since they did not come there yesterday, they are suppliers of the ministry of defense, they worked on construction contracts, er, i must say that they did not perform them very well either , there is a scandal surrounding them. construction on a wide range, there are unfulfilled

repair works on the territory of one of the military units in the zhytomyr region, that is, in principle, if there was no corruption of the ministry of defense, in general, these contracts that were signed in at the beginning of the 23rd year, they could not exist at all, because, well, in fact, we are dealing with an unscrupulous contractor, and now he has left for his agency, he foresees such a... risk factor in the contracts that if the company does not perform the work , then it can be deprived of the right to supply for the ministry of defense for three years, i think this is correct, even if we talk about the fact that it is possible to create a second, third company, i think that it is simply possible to generalize, to make other additional criteria, which will simply make signing impossible contracts with similar companies, accordingly , we will not have a story at the exit about the fact that... we have not delivered jackets, or delivered jackets that, i'm sorry, fall apart in

our hands, well, that's what happened when we brought these reznikov jackets for examination , and we decided to see what kind of insulation there is inside, and we got ready to cut the lining with a knife, and it crawled into us by itself just in our hands, yes, yes, just on such a jacket, well, that is, i understand that.. ... if there is hrenkevich, then there is a person with whom he signs a contract in the ministry of defense, well that is, no way without it. the sbi says that this is a criminal group that was organized by igor hrenkevich, but again, whoever hrenkevich is, powerful as a businessman and in his negotiations, he still signs an agreement with someone, if the one who signs the agreement... ignores the risks borne by this company, which is engaged in construction and purchases clothing for the armed forces,

so the one who signs on behalf of the ministry of defense of ukraine simply turns a blind eye or accepts these risks upon himself , that's right, yes, of course, and i would like to, well, that's why what we see is that two people have been appointed to the defense department, they are the former head of the specialized department of resource provision, bohdan khmelnytskyi and... the immediate manager, deputy minister of defense shapovalov, now it is on these people, the blame for all the contracts there, from unsupplied vests to unsupplied underpants , they... are the two responsible, although it is obvious that behind all these schemes, organized groups are behind all these schemes, including other people, and i would like to investigate the role of certain people's deputies and other representatives of the ministry or other power structures in the way these contracts were signed, because in order for your viewers to appreciate the scale, for example, other

tenders of the grenkevich family, well, for some one there... a lyceum in zhytomyr oblast, this is uah 700 for a toilet paper holder, in in the context of the ministry of defense, we are already talking about contracts for 1.5 billion, 1.3 billion, 600 million hryvnias, that is, these are generally unreasonable sums and a very tasty piece, for which, apparently, no one else was launched. mrs. tetiana, during the last seven... days we have witnessed how staged provocations against our colleagues yuriy nikolov and the team of denys bigus, yesterday president zelenskyi spoke about the inadmissibility of pressure on journalists: let's listen to what zelenskyi said, separately, regarding the situation with our journalists, in particular the fact of surveillance

of journalists, the security service of ukraine started an investigation and explains all the circumstances. any pressure on journalists is unacceptable. tatyana, you conducted investigations and wrote a lot about the abuse of power by both previous and current authorities. who and why do you care now? pressure on journalists? ah, unfortunately , investigative journalists are really investigative journalists, they are now creating great inconvenience for many officials who... are engaged in and have been engaged in corruption for many years, and - perhaps, if earlier such scandals took place with less resonance, then even in the case of grynkevichev , we see how irritated society is now reacting to such stories, ah, accordingly, these people really do not want to leave their offices of power, they then have no

choice but to discredit journalists, they say, well, who are the judges in our country? i'm sorry it is very reminiscent. the yanukovych era , which took place in 2013 before the orange revolution, how journalists were also monitored then, they were credited in every way, how their mail was hacked, some videos of their private lives were posted there, and unfortunately, certain things from those times are returning, and perhaps this is a consequence of the fact that some people who were in power then, they for... remain in power and create such very bad things, and it is obvious that, i hope, the security service is needed, it will not formally respond to this story , and will investigate the situation that happened around my colleagues from zbigusinfo, because so that it does not happen at this party, but it is obvious that we are dealing

with the fact of illegal examination and eavesdropping of journalists, but is it enough now with. .. zelenskyi’s statements that pressure on journalists is unacceptable, although we know the public statements of the former head of the president zelenskyi’s office that we don’t really need journalists, we see how some telegram blunders are becoming mass media that are betting on the current government, is it sincere, does zelenskyy want to deal with it, or does he simply have no other way out, because there are western partners and... democracy and the development of mass media, freedom of speech are cornerstones for any partners? and the truth is that the president probably has no option not to react to this story, and our western partners, they are very sensitive to all these cases of pressure on

the press, for them this is one of the main markers of how much is at stake is located at all. democratic processes in the state, therefore of course, for the journalists themselves, it will be much more important what and how high-quality the investigation of the same security service will be, and what results we will see of the investigation, and because talking and making a statement is one thing, but really showing who is guilty and whether he is punished or not no - that's a completely different story. thank you, ms. tetyana, for including me, it was tetyana nikolayenko, journalist, member. public anti-corruption council of the ministry of defense of ukraine. friends, we are working live on the espresso tv channel, also on ours platforms on youtube and facebook, for those who are currently watching live there. please like this video, do not be stingy, it is very important that this video is seen by as many people as possible, and take part in our survey, today we

ask you about whether the president is responsible for the corruption of the ministry of defense, yes, no, please , vote on youtube, either yes or no, if you are sitting in front of the tv and have a smartphone in your hands, please vote by phone numbers if you think that the president is responsible for corruption in the ministry of defense, 08002 11 381 no 0800 211 382. we will be grateful for your calls. all calls to these numbers are free. at the end of the program , we will sum up the results of this vote. next , ihor lapin, a special agent, a major of the armed forces of ukraine, is with us. mr. major, congratulations, thank you for joining our broadcast. i wish you health, glory to ukraine. to the heroes. glory. mr. major, since we are asking about corruption and about responsibility. not in this case, not legal, but political responsibility of the president of ukraine, whether he is responsible for corruption to the ministry of defense of ukraine.

well, let's be honest, from the moment when mr. reznikov began to perform the functions of the in advance of the unexpected concealment of the crime, namely to justify the eggs there about kilograms and jackets, they are not so old and so on, from that moment i think that mr. reznikov became one of, if not the leaders, then a serious accomplice of the criminal organization, which was built to earn money by embezzling funds during purchases at the ministry of defense. mr. reznikov is it creature of president zelenskyi. it is president zelenskyy who submits a candidacy to be appointed by the parliament. and in this context, no one submitted alternative candidacies. so, from that moment, as soon as reznikov got caught up in this scandal. in fact , the political responsibility rests entirely on president zelenskyi. moreover, let 's remember when the first procurement scandals began, and how long after that

reznikov continued to perform his duties and was not suspended by any party , and so on, this is already about political responsibility. i think he is responsible. thank you, mr. major. i will remind our viewers that you can vote in our poll, it is important for us to know your opinion in the future. for all two hours of our broadcast today, we will vote and watch the results of this vote. mr. major, the russian port infrastructure in st. petersburg was attacked by attack drones on the night of january 18. this was reported by the ministry of defense of the russian federation. the attack on the naftobase in the leningrad region is a special operation of the main administration intelligence of the ministry of defense. this is reported by the ukrainian media with reference to data and intelligence sources. yesterday, as a result of an attack by the armed forces of ukraine on the marine training center near sevastopol, 19 servicemen were killed

, this is reported by russian telegram channels, so what can you, mr. major, say about the need to transfer the war to the territory of russia, or the ukrainian territory, which is temporarily occupied by the russian, russian army , what is needed for this, because we see. some isolated results with some periodicity, which is not enough for a systemic one work on military facilities on enemy territory? well, let's be honest, if we do not transfer the war to the territory of the enemy, then the territory of ukraine will be destroyed, and this is already clear, israel is an example for all of us in this context, where the war came from, there it moved, similarly. history should be in the russian federation, of course, i believe that we lack, well, of course, we don't have enough to finally feel the shame that

so many ukrainians are suffering from. we all see that north korea, being under sanctions for 15 years, and iran, which will also be under sanctions for 15 years, is making missiles, and we are such a space state and have come to the beginning of a full-scale... repetition from and on , in principle, you can say nothing, so i am ashamed, of course, and for everything i am ashamed, although i understand that every problem in the state of ukraine has a clear surname, first name, patronymic, but regarding the transfer, do we have the forces and means with which we can attack legitimate targets on the territory of the enemy , namely its energy infrastructure, connected with the military-industrial complex , and especially the oil and gas industry, is what allows the russians to survive economically even during the sanctions that are currently being imposed against them, of course it must be done wherever we can...

enough, well, let's be frank, for of course, it would be a matter of principle for me the novorossiysk bases and oil refineries that are in novorossiysk, because 50%, if i am not mistaken, of the oil goes exactly there, there are other routes, but also other seaports, but it is winter there, there it's cold, there's a fly, there's less going there, but here novorossian tankers load and somewhere are reloaded onto some unknown greek tankers with those transporters turned off so that their... no one can track them, therefore, if they do this, then this is a legitimate goal of ukraine in order to sink the sails of such tankers, but the main thing is - this is a port infrastructure that can seriously hinder the russians. let me remind the audience that over the past two years, russians have earned more than 550 billion euros from hydrocarbon trading. if we recall the help we received from western partners, then the russians earned more than all the countries of europe

combined gave us in two years, well... that's how i see it, that's why we need to do it, because economically we won't survive russia otherwise. russia can fight for a long time, they will be patient, they will be, this people will love putin and tolerate it, sit in the shit, because, because they have all the same money for the defense industry, for theirs, for the ministry of attack and for missiles and for and for the shaheds and for the purchase of korean and iranian shit. and what about us, we will forever ask for patriot air defense systems, because we can't beat ballistics with anything else. it was. significant, but i really liked the story that general ben hodges recently voiced, that he said, well, you shouldn't, i didn't like the first part of his thesis that ukrainians shouldn't expect at the 75th nato anniversary summit that they will be invited to nato, well, i'm a realist, i also understand that they won't give it, because nato is not only a military, but also a political union, in the context, if the armed forces are ready to join nato, then the political part of ukraine. not ready, because

we still need to complete 100-500 different homework assignments of legislation, reform, anti-corruption, judicial, well, and on, on, on in the text. nevertheless, the second part of ben hodges' sentence was that it would be significant if the countries of western europe, in particular the members of nato, could secure in order to prevent the threat of falling into their territories, specifically russian missiles, which are bombarding ukraine. that is, what i am leading to, that is, there are already signals that rockets, rockets fly into the territory of romania, fly through that, through the territory of poland and so on, that is , benhoj says that the air defense forces of the countries could nato to take some part of ukrainian land, under the umbrella of the nato anti-aircraft system, under the control and under the umbrella of nato, in order to ensure a flight to its territory. that would be great, why? we would unload

our air defense system, we could throw it at others. areas, this is the first, second point, well, the patriot system can work, well, if i’m not mistaken, depending on the modification, there are 100 km plus, so you can imagine such a front-line, border zone for several hundred kilometers along the entire border with nato countries , that would be great, we could would think about building factories for the production of our already, as they say, military enterprises and so on, it would be very cool, but to transfer the war to the territory of the enemy... we need for this, the western partners to untie our hands, because you know, we give you a missile, but you don’t shoot there, from where they fire at you, well , it works, then you give us another 100 patriot missiles, or maybe with one taurus we will overwhelm the launcher, from which russian crap will fly out, you understand , and this is the dilemma so, don't escalate the situation, it is now flourishing very much in europe, and i can't understand, but where else can it be

escalated? there is nowhere left, there is only a nucleus, so in this context i believe that the western partners should rethink these lines that they have drawn for themselves and through which they supposedly cannot cross, well, the statements are the same there britain, france, i think , should still catch up with the story in germany about the taurus missiles, there was a recent vote on the provision of taurus missiles in germany, but i want to say it is completely treasonous. no, why, because it was a vote on a bill that was submitted by the opposition, they have another bill that has to be voted on, if i'm not mistaken, in the month of february, well, i could be wrong , by february 22 they have to vote in the bundestag, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, well, it would be very good if they caught up with olaf schols, who still needs it...