we continue the saturday political club, dmytro didora and vitaly portnikov are already in touch with us. volodymyr ogryzko, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2007-2009, head of the russian research center. mr. volodymyr, good evening, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. congratulations, mr. volodymyr. well, let's start with these protests in bashkartovstan. do you think that is an outlier or a regularity? that is, you know, such small signals that not everything is great in this kingdom, but unfortunately, in my opinion, it is not will mean that now a chain reaction will start and everything will start burning and falling apart, unfortunately not yet, you see, the woofies have gathered. well, people, but what did they do

, as shown by the drivers of the harovodos, well, if he drives harovodos against criminals armed to the teeth in military uniform, then of course nothing will happen, it seems to me that it will start only in the case when the colonial center that is moscow will begin to falter. then these things, and not only in beshkaaran, it goes without saying, they will flare up instantly, but for now these are just some kind of signals that both here and here will be, you know, i wanted to tell you something, but exactly a year ago, as far as i remember, to be honest, we were not really into it then, but in ufa there were such mass, mass farewell ceremonies for the first president of bashkortostan.

rahima, it was clear that people there perceive his death as a farewell to sovereignty, well , once upon a time, which was there in the 90s, and devofs putin even came to say goodbye to rahima, whom the kremlin accused of corruption, by the way, so too it was obvious that in bashkortostan, there are some other moods than one would think, if one does not look closely at this, this situation, this death revealed that people in this republic look at their current situation differently. than you would think? well, you see, i agree with you , mr. vitaliy, they clearly, clearly say мину русский, that is, what is the russian people, they ask the question in this way, and they absolutely correctly mention the soviet people, who were actually a kind of blanket, as if over by other nations that formed it, but when...

the collapse began in moscow, then suddenly it became clear that there is no soviet people, but there are ukrainians, there are lithuanians, there are kazakhs, there are georgians and so on and so on, the same will happen here, that is, so far russian propaganda is talking about the russian people, but yesterday or rather the day before yesterday, the minister of propaganda, who for some reason is called the minister of foreign affairs , said that through the svo, russia received, well, a very big positive, and he saw this positive in the fact that, as never before, the russian people paid, well, to me it resembles a well-known formula from the time of the ussr, when the soviet people splatilsya around the communist party, but it is also about this time that russian propaganda talks about unity. but in fact we

understand that it is a fake. what can be next in russia, it can be like the chain will start to fall, or these uprisings will be suppressed by the mind, as it happens, everyone will be put in a car park and that's it, and that will be the end of it, will there be something different, as you can describe ? i believe that it will be different only when the structures in moscow crumble, when the interclass begins. interspecies, between around putin's monster, when they start to figure out the relationship between themselves, who will be either the successor, or who will replace, or who will send the ampoule with that potassium and so on, then really, when they will deal with themselves, that's when the regions, national republics, because there, not only bashkarkazstan, there are whole territories that... see themselves

in a completely different way, think of siberia, think of the far east, eh, it’s not the siberians who say that we’re not really russian, we are, in our language is not even russian. sibirsk siberian, that is, its autonomous emotions and traditions in the same to siberia itself are huge, and multiply it by the fact that such a region can not only enjoy itself, but also live well if it thinks about itself, and not about the imperial center, then the situation here will be, i think, to go very fast, and very... similar to what happened with the collapse of the ussr, but as we remember, it all started with the gkchp, it started with the fact that power in moscow was actually lost by those who firmly held it yesterday held with

his hands, but after that it began, the process of the collapse of the then soviet empire began, i think we have, since... nothing has changed about the ussr or russia, so i think the scenario will be exactly the same. well, on the other hand, there is also the question of balance , agree, already when there was a ggcp, the balance of power in moscow and in the union republics was, to put it mildly, already destroyed, and here i mentioned to you about this funeral of rakhimov, i very much communicated with him in the 90s, when he was the head of the republic of bashkortostan, first of the verkhovna rada there, then the president of the republic. and among other republican leaders, he was distinguished by the fact that he spoke quite frankly about all this, he told me that if moscow does not understand how important the balance between it and the russian republics is, it will definitely lead to the fact that the ship capsizes, well, it is true, and mr. vitaly

, it's not only him, well, now tatarstan seems to be balancing towards the center, well, it's not at all... means that this will not change at the moment when the situation is strained to the upper limit, and right then and there precedent is important, and you see, the guy was imprisoned for that he wrote two words that were misinterpreted, translated specifically in order to condemn him, but it could be completely different, it could just be something in between. an ethnic conflict, where one bully kills another bully, and that can start anything, anywhere, by the way, in this country, so i think you're right about there being cells, and they

will really manifest themselves more and more, what will be the trigger, also the question is quite, quite open, because we... can predict where it will start, but what is in these so-called in the national republics today , the anti-moscow potential is really starting to grow, so here, as they say, there is no need to go to the borozhka. continuing the topic of russia, in addition to the protests, there were also many communal accidents, and hundreds of thousands of russians were left without electricity, water, heat, they say, at least 43 su'. objects of the russian federation were left without utility services. russia promised that europe would freeze, but this video, i will never forget it, when the song begins, and then it turns out that the russian city, will these communal eyes be affected

problems on putin's authority, and whether local officials will suffer as a result of this. communal collapse , well, you see, mr. dmytro, i recently saw another one there, as it is now fashionable to call it, from the freezing podolsk, when it was minus 20 or 25 outside, but in the apartment buildings there was neither heating nor water, well nothing, that is, the entrances were like caves with stalagnites and stalactites, so what was actually happening? women gathered on the street and chanted loudly, we are freezing, we are freezing, this was, this is was the first thing they talked about, and then vladimir vladimirovich, help, you understand, this is a slave nation, a nation with the psychology

of slaves, who will endure to the last, and i see no, no reason why this slave nation should suddenly ... rebelled, well, well, i think you remember saltykov shchedryan, who was very fond of repeating the phrase that they love... russians to riot, they will kneel in front of the noble house and riot, they know, they are rioting, but stand, this is the type of russian thinking, that's why i think that there will be rivers not like the ones you show now flowing through the streets, they will still be on their knees rebelling, ask vladimir volodymyrovych to help, so i honestly do not see here a great... chance for in order for such things to force the arab people to act, they need to wait

for another leader, another king, if this one loses, and no more, there, in my opinion, and in the opinion of colleagues in our center, who are engaged in this quite intensively , there is no internal force for any resistance, it mentality, this is what has been formed for centuries. and that so far it is absolutely impossible to change with one, you know, flick of a switch. and tell me, have you seen this post by dmytro medvedev on duty, in which he clearly said that the cause of the war is the fact of a lack of ukrainian statehood, well, so many criticized it, as you know, audacity, but in essence, it seems to me, that medvedev has already told the truth about what they think and what they would really like. obviously, this is true, and here, well, no, no, frankly, why

wonder, but you, mr. vitaly , understand perfectly well that the existence of an independent democratic ukraine, which is a member of two alliances, nato and the european union, is a cross on everything that modern russia stands for, it is the collapse of all. taken together and at the same time one moment, there is no history , no culture, no greatness and everything else, that is, the issue is not in ukraine, look, finland became a member of nato, the common border between russia and finland is something like 1,200 kilometers , and no tantrums, well at least not yet, well , the leningrad military district will be formed there. so what? and you look at what is happening in the context of ukraine. ukraine is not possible.

god bless you, we drove through finland and didn't even see it. and ukraine is really something completely different. why? well, because ukraine is the cutting off of history, the cutting off of greatness, the cutting off of all that is called the russian myth. well, how to live in russia without a myth? the institute for the study of war says that the statement. this is a signal that the russian federation does not want a break with kyiv. on your opinion, what can this post of his, which is actually very difficult to read, be about, in your opinion, what does he want to convey to ukrainians and the official authorities in kyiv? well, why, mr. dmytro, is it difficult to read, well, you just have to learn to read, including such things, you have to... take it calmly, analyze it, you know that, well,

it must be difficult for a dead anatomist to work, but he works , that whatever you do, that's why you have to accept it, of course with disgust, but at the same time, with the fact that these are obvious things that putin cannot afford, and this is made public through such disgusting posts. his deputy on this so-called on this so-called security council, which means that there can be no, no hope for any negotiations in principle, i just have a hard time imagining what can be negotiated about, about what they traveled to istanbul, well, that's how they went with the capitulation, if it's a negotiation, then, sorry, i'm the pope , it's not a negotiation, it's a signing of the capitulation. all other things cannot be called negotiations, there is nothing about, there is no subject of negotiations, you understand, when

delegations gather, they discuss something, that is, some a problem, some question, some fact , and so on, there is nothing to discuss, so it should be taken absolutely realistically, and by the way , at the press conference the day before yesterday, lavrov again, well, in black, as they say, in white, that there are no negotiations about... that cannot be, until russia fulfills its tasks within the framework of this so-called svo, they will not stop, about which negotiations can we even talk, obviously not. well, if we turn to the topic of nazism, which medvedev talks about all the time in his posts, it is interesting to continue this topic, you know that there was quite an interesting story this week, connected, unfortunately, with a sad event and the death of a famous russian poet of democratic beliefs, a friend of ukraine, a person who always opposed the war with

ukraine, lev rubinstein , he died after a car accident, ot. and the espres newspaper , it seems, that's what it's called, the espres newspaper, printed a report about his farewell to him, and with such, i would say, with the characteristic that in the rasvet cultural center on the red carpet, where from a large number people, the jewish apple had nowhere to fall, there were also tearful faces, azohenvei, who will raise the flag now, bokby with cursed putinism, well, all this, as you understand, with such humorous twists. russian words, so that it is clear that these are jewish accents, that it is jews who have gathered for the funeral of a russophobe. and it is also very interesting that there is no reaction from the official authorities, only there a deputy from the opposition yabluk said that he filed a lawsuit, because the text, which is very similar to the texts that we once read in real nazi newspapers, somewhere filhischer

biobakhter, there were such texts, and you read them in history lessons, and now it comes out in moscow directly, so you don't need any lessons. you just buy a newspaper, read it, no, mr. vitaly, what’s the news here, don’t we know that anti-semitism in russia is, well, one of the scraps, it’s a sensation, i think there’s no need to go to the boroshka here, it’s that, this is what modern russia stands on, so that no one there does not speak and so on, therefore, look at the reaction of official moscow to what... what hamas terrorists did to the jewish population in gaza, this is nothing less than confirmation that the anti-israel line is actually one of the key points in the minds of the modern russian leadership, traditionally it stretches back centuries and centuries, so

, to be honest, i stopped wondering a long time ago. to such things, because they are part of the russian mentality, i return to this again, because it seems to me that all of our people today, you know, such sighs and sighs, how could this happen, you just have to read russian history , you just have to read what was written in great russian writers that the russian spirit is an order of magnitude higher than the european one. please, this is the great dostoevsky, who is admired in the west, he did not value european culture compared to russian, saying that russian culture is usually an order of magnitude higher and more spiritual, there is no such primitive consumerism and so on, there and there simply, well, great scraps for

all times and peoples, so, so this is all... is a consequence of what russia was created from, how it developed historically and what it reached, but now we are on the threshold of when or all this will be punished once and for all, and nothing will remain of the russian half-empire, except for some possible formation within the borders of the moscow principality, when it arose. everything else will turn into other state entities, or then this monster will eat everyone in a row without any choice. we sincerely thank volodymyr gryzko, former minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, head of the russian research center, who contacted us. we will continue our diplomatic dialogues. we have yevhen

korniychuk, ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary, on the phone now of ukraine in israel. congratulations, mr. yevgeny. good evening. so... let's start with some conclusions, because for the first time we saw an israeli representative at the discussion of the ukrainian peace formula in davos, we are paying attention to china, but israel has now sent its representative to davos for this meeting of advisers, this a kind of diplomatic maneuver, one might say, well , a small maneuver, since we have been working on this since the first meeting of national security advisers and... this is the fourth time we have succeeded, i want to say that according to our according to information, on the eve of this meeting, the russian ambassador to israel viktorov met with... the deputy general director of the ministry of foreign affairs with requests and assurances that such a trip would not take place. despite this,

uriy reznik, the deputy head of the israel defense forces for international affairs, took part in this event, he had meetings with the ukrainian leadership, and the meeting was assessed as very positive by both sides. we have received assurances from the israelis that they will definitely participate in this format in the future as well. and tell me, here if we talk about this peace formula and how we are looking for some security guarantees there , the israeli security guarantee formula is realistic for ukraine . is it similar to these formulas that israel has for its security? mr. vitaly, this is a similar story, and i can tell a lot of information about it in detail. to know that israel has received exclusively american security assistance since 1952 is

the first security agreement, which, by the way, was also called a numbered water wall, we do not like the name with the british, but this form is used very widely in primarily common law countries, countries, in great britain, the united states, and the security mechanisms themselves allow israel to receive the largest american military aid. i can say that the first such ten-year agreement was signed between the united states and israel back in 1999, and it provided for aid in the amount of two and eight billion dollars per year directly. direct financial aid, and among other things, numerous loans from american arms manufacturers that the israeli government or israeli companies directly

entered into, at the end of this period a new agreement was concluded for 10 years, the agreement that was signed between israel and the united states in 2016 and covers 2019. 2028, now the average annual aid is 3.8 billion, but for your understanding, it covers only one, only 20% of the israeli military budget, although this is an unprecedented aid, i want to say that ukraine exceeded last year israel received more aid from the united states than israel did in... first, it is important to say that the israeli government receives this aid directly, and the americans do not in any way, in any way, control the use of these

funds, that is, there is a lot of trust between the parties, i i think that we will also be able to achieve this by agreement, and this is a normal precedent , which provides, in fact, the way this agreement with britain was formed, which... was not asked about her work in the security direction in various areas of her as in issues of e-e intelligence and access, mutual access to military satellites, er, obtaining any intelligence information in matters of er, site, in matters of joint air defense production. the only thing i want to say that is very different in this... sense from israel is that israel remains a nuclear power, you know israel has never publicly acknowledged this, but our great countrywoman golda

meyer, being the prime minister of minister of israel, even during the famous six-day war, said that we do not have nuclear weapons, but if necessary we will apply it, well, actually speaking , of course, this is the key difference between ukraine and israel, because it is actually... a colleague, and countries like iran, which are definitely a threat to israel, and all the iranian proxies that today you see, operating in different countries, from syria, lebanon, yemen, here and to a certain extent egypt, we saw the negotiations of the israeli-egyptian side this week regarding the illegal crossing. who of the israeli border, by unknown persons, armed, this was immediately stopped, but appropriate consultations took place, in general, there were mass ones this week.

consultations, negotiations , visits, as a rule, we prepare relevant , appropriate information on this matter for the ministry of foreign affairs and our top political leadership, well simply, i think it is worth mentioning the key statements of her minister of foreign affairs of her kingdom of saudi arabia, who first announced about the fact that they are ready to sign a peace agreement with israel as well and to recognize israel as a sovereign state after securing the signing of a peace agreement with palestine and recognition of the independence of the palestinian authority as of the state, on this occasion there were also visits by the minister of foreign affairs of australia, the president of the czech republic, this week she had an important telephone conversation with... the chancellor

of germany, who stated that germany is ready to join the lawsuit in the gas filed, you know, the south african republic is against israel, and germany is ready to join the side of israel, that is, a huge diplomatic activity, and every day we watch the statements of the prime minister of israel. well, i guess i should finish the information for this week in a loud statement by the minister of foreign affairs of the russian federation, lavrov, who went to new york to take part in the european council, he emphasized that they are interested in peace in the territory of israel and palestine and also speaks in favor of the creation of .

of an independent palestinian state, well, of course, the cynicism here is extraordinary, because it's not the level, as a rule, of the foreign minister, and after the visit of the political, political leadership of hamas to moscow that took place this week, it sounds especially cynical and and it's just not... it's not worth not paying attention to it, whether it causes some disgust in the israeli political community. mr. yevgeny, you have already mentioned and loud statements were made by the prime minister and the minister of foreign affairs lavrov, however , some information spread on the network that the war in israel will not end this year, their military operation in the sector gases, the prime minister of israel said this week, what is currently happening in...

the gas sector itself, and in your opinion, is it really possible to go to war already starting in 2024, we just started, we are already predicting that it will continue next year, well , this war is profitable for a certain stratum of the israeli political community, i am closely following the military-political analysis on the ground, according to the statements of the israeli military... the operation is about its third stage, it is conditionally divided by four, that is, now the israeli military command controls approximately almost two-thirds of the territory of the gas sector, and one of the divisions was already out of four was withdrawn from the gas sector last week, that is, it can be said that the hostilities on

territories of gas itch. measures, unfortunately, the losses among the civilian population are increasing, of course, there are currently figures of 24,000 dead and about 60,000 wounded, but, in my opinion, the actual military operation may end much earlier, in the future , the question is whether the military operation will begin on north in... the territory of lebanon from the side of hezbollah, but we see a huge, diplomatic activity of the united states of america, its diplomatic representatives are actually in lebanon, they are constantly, trying to convince, to stop hostilities, at the same time, shelling continues from lebanon, and i want to say that...