we continue the saturday political club, dmytro didora and vitaly portnikov are already in touch with us . volodymyr ogryzko, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2007-2009. head of the

russian research center. mr. volodymyr, good evening, glory to ukraine. congratulations, mr. volodymyr, well, let's start with these protests in bashkartostan. do you think what is happening there is an excess or a regularity? it's a bell, although it's not a bell, that is, it's, you know, those little bells that... not everything is great in this kingdom, but unfortunately, in my opinion, this will not mean that now a chain reaction will begin and everything will start to burn and fall apart, unfortunately, not yet, you see, well, people have gathered in ufa, but what did they do, as shown by the drivers of the harovods, well, if the driver of the harovods against armed to the teeth... uh, criminals in military uniform, then

of course nothing will happen, it seems to me that it will only start if the colonial center, which is moscow, starts to shake, that's when these things, and not only in beshkakastan, it goes without saying, they will flare up instantly, and for now it's just like that signals that here and there... it will be , you know, i wanted to tell you something, but exactly a year ago, as far as i remember, to be honest, we weren't too keen on it then, but in uf there were such mass, mass farewell ceremonies for the first president of bashkortostan murtasuya rahim, it was clear that people there perceive his death as a farewell to the sovereignty, well, once upon a time, which was there in the 90s, and dofa even came putin to say goodbye to rahiv. the kremlin accused him

of corruption, by the way, so it was also visible that there are some other moods in bashkurtan than one would think, if one does not look closely at this, at this situation, this death has revealed that people in this republic look at their current situation differently than one would think, well, you see, i have been with you for a long time, mr. vitaly, they speak my russian clearly and clearly, that is, what is russian? the people there are asked questions in this way, and they absolutely correctly mention the soviet people, which was actually a kind of blanket, as it were, over the other peoples that formed it, but when the collapse began in moscow, then suddenly it became clear that there is no soviet people, but there are ukrainians, there are lithuanians, there are kazakhs, there are georgians and so on and so forth. the same will be the case here

, that is, so far russian propaganda is talking about the russian people, but yesterday, or rather the day before yesterday, the minister of propaganda, who for some reason is called the minister of foreign affairs , said that through the svo russia received, well, a very big positive, and he saw this positive in because... what can happen next in russia, it can be like a chain, everything will start to fall, or these uprisings?

i'm suffocating, how is this happening, everyone will be put in jail and that's it, and that's the end of it, will there be anything different that you can describe? i believe that it will be different only in that case. when the structures in moscow will crumble , when the inter-clan, inter-species, inter -putinian strife will begin, when they will begin to find out the relationships between themselves, who will be the successor, or who will replace, or who will send the ampulkunist potassium and so on, then really, when they will take care of themselves, then, regions, national republics, ibid well, not only bashkarkazstan, there are also whole territories that see themselves in a completely different way, remember siberia, remember the far east, it is not the siberians who say that we are not really russians, we are, our language is not even russian, but siberian, siberian-russian, that is

, autonomous emotions and traditions in the same siberia are huge, and multiply it by the fact that such... lyon can not only feed himself, but also live well if he thinks about itself, and not about the imperial center, then the situation here will, it seems to me, go very quickly, and it is very similar to what happened with the collapse of the ussr, but , as we remember, it all started with the gkchp, it started with the fact that power... in moscow was actually lost by those who held it firmly in their hands until yesterday, but after that and began, the process of the collapse of the then soviet empire began, i think we have, since nothing

has changed in russia regarding what is the ussr or russia, then i think that the scenario will be exactly the same. well, on the other hand, there is also the question of balance, agree. already when there was ggcp, the balance of power in moscow and in the union republics, it was, to put it mildly, already destroyed, and so i reminded you about this funeral of rahimov, i spoke with him a lot in the 90s, when he was the head of the republic of bashkortostan, first of the verkhovna rada there, then the president of the republic, and among other republican leaders, he was distinguished precisely by , who spoke quite frankly about all this, he told me that if moscow does not understand how important the balance between it and the russian ... public is, it will definitely lead to the fact that the ship will capsize, well, it's true, and mr. vitaly , this well, not only him, well, now tatarstan seems to be balancing towards the center, well, this does not mean at all that this will not change at the

moment when the situation is strained to the upper limit, and right away it is important to.. . a precedent, and you see, a guy was jailed for writing two words that were misinterpreted, translated specifically to convict him, but it could be completely different, it could just be some inter-ethnic conflict where one bully kills another bully, and this can start anything , at any, by the way, point of this countries, so... i think you 're right about there being pockets, and they 're really going to show up more and more, what 's going to be the trigger, that's also a pretty, pretty open question because we can't predict

where it's going to start, but the fact that in these so-called national republics today the anti-moscow potential is really starting to grow. and here, as they say , you don’t have to go to the borozhka, and continuing the topic of russia, in addition to the protests, there were also many communal accidents, and hundreds of thousands of russians were left without electricity, water, heat, they say that at least 43 subjects of the russian federation were left without utility services, russia promised that europe would freeze, but this video, i will never forget it, when the song begins... and then it turns out that a russian city, will these utility problems affect the putin's authority, and will local officials simply suffer from this, as a result of this communal collapse? well, you see, mr. dmytro,

i recently saw a regular there, as it is now fashionable to call it a detachment, from the freezing podolsk. when it was minus 20 degrees outside 25, but in the apartment buildings there was neither heating nor water, well, nothing, that is, the entrances were like caves. lagnites and stalactites, so what actually happened was that women gathered on the street and chanted loudly, we are freezing, we are freezing, this was first, this was the first thing they talked about, and then vladimir vladimirovich, help, you understand, this is a slave people, a people from by the psychology of the slaves themselves, who will endure to the last, and i see no ... er no reason why this slave nation should suddenly

rebelled, well, i think that you remember saltnykov shcherdyan, who loved to repeat the phrase that russians love to rebel, they will kneel in front of the noble house and rebel, they know that they rebel, but they stand, this is the type of russian thinking. therefore, i think that even though there will not be such rivers as you show now flowing through the streets, they will still be on their knees rebelling, ask volodymyr volodymyrovych to help, so i do not see here, frankly, a great chance for to such things, arabic the people were forced to act, they need to wait for another leader, another king, if this is the program. and no more, there, in my opinion , and in the opinion of colleagues at our center, who

are engaged in this quite intensively, there is no internal strength for any resistance, this is a mentality, this is what has been formed for centuries, and what so far it is absolutely impossible to change the switch with one, you know, movement of the switch, but tell me, have you seen this post... dmytro medvedev is on duty, in which he clearly said that the cause of the war is a fact in the mind of the ukrainian statehood, well yes many criticized it, as you know, audacity, but in fact it seems to me that medvedev has already told the truth about what they think and what they would like, in fact, it is obviously true, and here , well , no, no, to be honest, why be surprised, but you, mr. vitaly, are absolutely beautiful. you understand that the existence of an independent , democratic ukraine, which is a member of two

alliances, nato and the european union, is a cross on everything that modern russia stands on, it is the collapse of all scraps, taken together, and at the same time, there is no history, no culture, there is no greatness and everything else , that is, that is why the issue is not in ukraine, look, er,... finland became a member of nato, the common border between russia and finland is something like 1,200 kilometers, and there are no tantrums , well, at least not yet, well, the leningrad military district will be formed there , so what, and you look at what is happening in the context of ukraine, no, ukraine is not possible, finland, god be with you, we swallowed and did not even see, but ukraine really something... completely different, why? well, because ukraine - that is, cutting off history, cutting off greatness,

cutting off everything that is called the russian myth. well, how to live in russia without a myth? the institute for the study of war says that medvedev's statement is a signal that the russian federation does not want to negotiate with kyiv. in your opinion, what can this post of his, which is actually very difficult to read, be about , what do you think he wants to convey to ukrainians and the official authorities in kyiv? why, mr. dmytro, is it difficult to read, well, you just need to learn to read, including such things, you need to calmly perceive it, analyze it, well you know that, well, it must be hard for a dead anatomist to work, but he works no matter what , so you have to take it for granted. with disgust, but at the same time, with the fact that, these

are obvious things that putin cannot afford , and this is made public through such and such a disgusting post, his deputy on this so-called, on this so-called security council, and this means that there is no, no hope for any negotiations. in principle, it cannot be, i just have a bad idea of ​​what can be negotiated, about what they went to istanbul with, well, that's how we went with the capitulation, if this... talk, then, excuse me, i'm the pope of rome, it 's not negotiations, it's the signing of the capitulation, you can't call all other things negotiations , there's nothing about, there's no subject of negotiations, you understand when they're meeting delegation, they are discussing something, i.e. some problem, some issue, some fact and so on, there is nothing to discuss, so it should be taken

absolutely realistically, and by the way, at lavrov's press conference the day before yesterday. again, well, in black, as they say, in white, that there can be no negotiations about anything, until russia fulfills its tasks within the framework of this so-called svo, they will not stop, about which negotiations can even be talked about, obviously not. well, if we turn to the topic of nazism, which medvedev talks about all the time in his posts, it is interesting to continue this topic here. you know that there was quite an interesting story, er,... this week , unfortunately, connected with the sad event and death of a famous russian poet of democratic beliefs, a friend of ukraine, a person who always opposed the war with ukraine, lev rubinstein, he died after of the car accident, and the espress newspaper , i think that's what it's called, the espress newspaper, printed a report about

his farewell, and with such, i would say, with the characteristic that in the cultural center dawn on a red... dream, where from a big number of people, the jewish apple had nowhere to fall, there were also people who cried, and zohenvei, who will now raise the flag of bogba with cursed putinism, well, all this, as you understand, with such humorous inversions of russian words to make it clear that they are jewish accents, that it gathered precisely jews at the funeral of a russophobe. and it is also very interesting that there is no reaction from the official authorities, only there... the deputy from the opposition apple said that he filed a lawsuit, because the text, which is very similar to the texts that we once read in real nazi newspapers, somewhere filhischer biobakhter, there were such texts and we read them in history lessons, and now it comes out directly in moscow, but you don't need any lessons, you just buy a newspaper and read it. no, mr. vitaly, what's the news here, don't we

know that anti-semitism in russia is, well, one from scraps, what's the point? i think that there is no need to go to borozhka here, this is what modern russia stands on, so that there is no one who does not speak and so on, so look at the reaction of official moscow to what was done terrorists of hamas with the jewish population in gaza, this is nothing but a confirmation that the anti-israel line is actually... one of the key points in the minds of the modern russian leadership, it traditionally goes back centuries and centuries, so , to be honest, i have long stopped being surprised by such things because they are part of the russian mentality,

i return to this again, because it seems to me that all of our today's... you know, such sighs and sighs, how could this happen, you just have to read russian history, you just have to read , what great russian writers wrote about the fact that the russian spirit is an order of magnitude higher than european, please, this is the great dostoyevsky, who is admired in the west, he did not value european culture, compared to russian, saying that... that russian certainly an order of magnitude higher, more spiritual, there is no such thing primitive consumerism and so on, there are just big scraps for all times and peoples, so, so all this is a consequence of what russia was created from, how it developed historically and what it reached,

now we are on the threshold that is, when or... all this will be punished once and for all, and from the russian half-empire, nothing will remain, except perhaps some formation within the borders of the moscow principality, when it arose, everything else will turn into other state formations, well, or then this the monster will eat all in a row without any choice. we sincerely thank volodymyr gryzko, former minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, head of the russian research center, we have been in touch, we will continue our diplomatic dialogues, we are now in touch with yevhen korniychuk, extraordinary plenipotentiary. ambassador of ukraine in israel, congratulations, mr. yevgeny, good evening, well, let's start with some conclusions, because for the first time we saw an israeli representative at the discussion

of the ukrainian peace formula in davos, we are paying attention to china, but here is israel now he sent his representative to davost to this meeting of advisers, it is a kind of diplomatic meeting, one might say, but a small meeting, since we have been working on this since the first e. meeting of advisers on national security issues, and for the fourth time we managed to do it, i want to say that according to our information, on the eve of this meeting , the russian ambassador to israel viktorov met with the deputy general director of the ministry of foreign affairs with requests and assurances that such a trip would not take place. despite this, the deputy head of the israel national police for international affairs questions uriy reznik took part in this event, he had meetings with the ukrainian leadership, and the meeting was evaluated as very positive by both sides, we received

an assurance from the israelis that they will definitely participate in this format in the future. and tell me, if we talk about this peace formula and how we are looking for some security guarantees there, the israeli security guarantee formula, is it realistic for ukraine? why am i asking this, because it happened recently. the first such security guarantee agreement with velika was signed britain, is it similar to those formulas that israel has for its security? mr. vitaly, this is a similar story, and i can tell a lot of information about it in detail, it is important to know that israel receives exclusively american security assistance, starting in 1952, this is the first agreement. security, which , by the way, was also called a single-wall memorandum, we do not like the name with the british, but this form is used very

widely primarily in commonlaw countries, countries in great britain, the united states, and the security mechanisms themselves allow israel to receive the largest american military aid, i can say that... the first such ten-year agreement was signed between the united states and israel back in 1999, it provided for assistance in the amount of 2 and 8 billion dollars per year in direct direct financial assistance, and among other things numerous loans from american arms manufacturers that the israeli government or israeli companies directly entered into, at the end of this period a new agreement was concluded for 10 years, the agreement that was signed between israel and

and the united states in 2016 and covers 2019-2028, now the average annual aid is 3.8 billion, but it covers, for your understanding. only one, only 20% of the israeli military budget, although this is unprecedented aid, i want to say that ukraine surpassed israel last year and received more aid from the united states than israel for the first time. it is important to say that the israeli government receives this aid directly, and the americans in no way, in any way, control the use of these funds, that is, there is a large trust. parties to each other, uh, i think we'll also be able to agree to that, and that's a normal precedent that involves,

actually, the way this agreement with britain that you asked me about, uh, work in security direction in various fields, e, such as issues of intelligence and access, mutual access to the military from satellites, e, e, obtaining any intelligence information in issues, cyber security, in issues of joint air defense production. the only thing i want to say is that we are very different in this sense from israel, is that israel remains a nuclear power. you know that israel has never publicly acknowledged this, but our distinguished compatriot golden meyer, being the prime minister of israel. even during the well-known six-day war, she said that we do not have nuclear weapons, but if necessary, we will use them, well, actually speaking, this is definitely

the key. the difference between ukraine and israel, because it is actually a heavyweight, and countries such as iran, which are definitely a threat to israel, and all of them are iranian, know about this the proxies that you see today are operating in different countries, from syria, lebanon, er, yemen, er, here, and to some extent egypt, we have seen the negotiations of the israeli-egyptian side of this. week e regarding the illegal crossing of the egyptian-israeli border by unknown armed persons, it was immediately stopped, but appropriate consultations took place. in general, this week there were massive consultations, negotiations, visits, we, as a rule, prepare relevant relevant information on this matter for the ministry of foreign affairs and our top political leadership, well

simply. i think it's worth mentioning the, uh , key statements, uh, by the foreign minister of, uh, the kingdom of saudi arabia, who first stated that yes, they are willing to sign a peace agreement with israel as well and recognize israel as a sovereign state, after uh, securing, uh, signing a peace agreement with palestine and recognizing the independence of the palestinian authority as a state. on this occasion, there were also visits by the minister of foreign affairs of australia, the president of the czech republic this week, an important telephone conversation with the chancellor of germany, who stated that germany is ready to join the lawsuit in the hague, which was filed by, you know, germany

is ready to join on the side of israel, that is , a huge diplomatic activity, and every day we watch the statements of the prime minister of israel, well, we should probably finish the information on this week with a loud statement of the minister minister of foreign affairs of the russian federation lavrov, who went to new york to take part in the security council, emphasized that they are interested in peace, in the territory of israel and palestine, and also speak out for the creation of of an independent palestinian state, well , of course, cynicism here is extremely high, since this

is not a level, as a rule. minister of foreign affairs and after the visit of the political political leadership of hamas to moscow this week, it sounds particularly cynical and it is simply not worth noting it, does it probably cause some disgust in the israeli political community, mr. yevgeny, regarding you already were mentioned and loud statements were made by both the prime minister and minister of... affairs lavrov, but here is the information that spread on the network that the war in israel will not end this year, the tsyhal military operation in the gaza sector, the prime minister of israel said this week, what is currently happening in the gaza sector itself, and in your opinion, is it really possible to go to war already starting in 2024, we have only just begun , we are already

predicting that it will continue and... in the next year, well, in a certain sense this war is beneficial to the israeli politicians, i am closely following the military and political analysis on the ground, according to the israeli military, the operation is approximately in its third stage, it is conditionally divided into four, that is, now the israeli military command. controls approximately almost 2/3 of the territory of the gas sector, and one of the divisions was already out of four was withdrawn from the gas sector last week, that is , it can be said that the fighting in the gas sector is slowing down to a certain extent, unfortunately, civilian casualties are increasing.