voting, i want to introduce the guests of today's program, they are the best ukrainian political analysts, igor reiterovych, political scientist, head of political and legal programs of the ukrainian center for social development, mr. igor, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today, congratulations, maksym rozumny, ukrainian political scientist, philosopher, doctor of political sciences, mr. maksym, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today, congratulations, viktor boberenko, political scientist, bureau expert. policy analysis, mr. victor, welcome and thank you for being with us today, good health to you, yes, before starting our conversation, gentlemen, we will include our correspondent dmytro didora, later , yes, in 5 minutes we will include our correspondent dmytro didora, he monitors what is happening in the pechersk district court of the capital, there they choose, choose, or rather,

run away grynkevich's son, ihor grynkevich, lviv businessman roman grynkevich, and the prosecutor's office asks for bail of half a billion hryvnias. so, gentlemen, as we ask our viewers and viewers if they support multiple citizenship in to ukraine, i will ask you, too, whether you support multiple citizenship in ukraine. just today, zelenskyi again announced that he is submitting a bill on multiple citizenship to the verkhovna rada of ukraine, that ukraine needs this multiple citizenship. mr. maxim, you have the floor. in general, this topic has existed in the public space for quite a long time, although it was mostly debated in narrow expert circles or among people. who deal with

the affairs of the ukrainian diaspora, that is, this idea is, so to speak, not new, and even that the status of a ukrainian abroad, which operates today, of course, did not satisfy many interests, needs and willingness of representatives of ukrainian communities to become more full-fledged members of the ukrainian community, the ukrainian political one. nation, that is, this step is expected, in general, logical, before the holiday , besides, something like this had to be done, but it is clear that there will be many more disputes around this initiative, this idea, because next to the fact that someone who wanted get ukrainian citizenship in america, canada, france, great britain, there is

such a new collision, when, well, we all know that many of our officials and , so to speak, negative characters of ukrainian public policy were burned, foreign passports were found in them, and now this, if this law is adopted, it is supposedly aimed at granting citizenship to these representatives of ukrainian communities, but the law is one for all. and in this case, dual citizenship will cease to be, well, not even a crime, it will cease to be a reason for any claims to such people thank you, mr. viktor, does this mean that multiple citizenship will in principle open the way home for gennady korban, whose ukrainian citizenship was taken away, he cannot enter the territory of the ukrainian state, and ihor valeriyovych will feel at ease with...

five passports or how many passports does he have there, because he always brags that he has a lot of passports, yes, yes, yes, i also believe that the law should have one status for everyone, yes, and therefore, he returns, put everyone in the same status, and therefore this, this already exists a subject for abuse, but if i say very, very briefly that i am against, against, if only because it is not possible in all countries, and it is possible in the countries of the allies, and that means we will, well, a little bit if we set them up, it is not clear there , i am not an expert here, but like any resident, non-resident, where a person has to pay taxes, there are nuances here too, yes, but most of all i do not trust the fact that this government cannot be trusted at all, they have no communication with the citizens of ukraine , absolutely none, they... said that

they would want to communicate with eventually there, well ukrainians, especially if they are patriotic and want to take citizenship and be citizens, well, well , what will we protect, yes, it has gone, it is like a pillar that maybe one of us will like, because the time for that in nightingales and scabies ignites, it’s cool, yes, if the enemy ignites, literally or figuratively, it’s good for us, but i wouldn’t trust this government, because it may end due to the action of votes, where it turns out that we have compatriots abroad , who voted for zelensky ten times more, well conditionally half of bangladesh will vote, so not with this

government for communications with patriots, ukrainians, from other states, with citizens of other states, but not with ours, not with our happiness. and without bangladesh, i understood that at least the citizenship of ukraine does not coincide with the citizenship of bangladesh, well, this is a joke of course, mr. igor, please, well, you know, here it rests on what is specifically written in this law, such a strange story, the president announced this, but so far we haven't seen, well, the draft law itself, but we we know that the devil is always in the details. you know, for some distant perspective, i can recognize in principle the need to introduce something similar. well, for example, when we become a member of the european union, it will open up additional prospects for our citizens who will work there in european countries, but at the same time will regularly live there in ukraine, visit ukraine, open some joint business there, and so on. this is one story when ukraine is a member of the eu.

if we are talking now about the introduction of such a procedure, there are two simple ones question. the first question is that it must somehow be reconciled with the constitution, and, frankly, i do not really understand how it can be done during the legal period. of the martial law regime , since it is expressly forbidden, well , to make changes to the constitution, although i saw already today there was an interpretation that the relevant article should be read in a different way, it does not seem to prohibit anything, and so on and so forth , and the second moment, it is the most important, it is related to such a concept, somewhat ephemeral, but very important in our conditions, we mentioned it very often, when they talked about the mobilization bill, this concept of justice, what this multiple citizenship will mean, it will mean giving everyone rights. or according to duties and will this mean that, for example, some duties of citizens of ukraine, well, regarding service, let's say in the armed forces of ukraine, will also be extended to those people who will have two, three, five and there, i don't know how many passports, including one of these passports will be a passport of ukraine. so it seemed to me more that it was

such, you know, such a statement of the president, aimed at our compatriots who are currently abroad, who have gone there, so that they do not think that the country forgets about them, if they even settle their lives there. they were in no hurry to give up the ukrainian passport, but this, you know, it cannot be decided tomorrow, it will drag on for a very long period of time, and, let's say, programs to stimulate the return of our citizens, as of today, would be a better initiative, specifically specific programs, which would contribute to their desire to return to ukraine, start working there, get some support and so on, not the statements we hear from individual representatives of the office that western countries should stop helping our refugees and almost wipe them out... said serhiy leshchenko about the fact that europe should stop aid to ukrainian refugees and return them to ukraine, it's good that he didn't say, forcibly return, well, that's how

it turned out, we have dmytro didora in contact, he is in the pechersk district court of the capital, there they choose a preventive measure . roman hrynkevich, the son of the well-known lviv businessman ihor hrynkevich, who are suspected of not using 1.5 billion hryvnias of contracts with the ministry of defense for the wrong purposes, or at least earning these 15 billion hryvnias. dmitry, i congratulate you, tell me, please, what is the current situation with the case, i am looking at what is this, is this the corridor of the court, or is this... a court session, what is happening now in the pechersk court? i congratulate sergey, and i also congratulate the viewers of espresso, i am really right now in the corridor of the court, because the judicial the meeting is ongoing, it is not over, there are still debates between the defense and

the prosecution, and i want to note that the hrynkevichs are suspected of creating a criminal organization that took over. e-e funds and are suspected of supplying low-quality clothing for the armed forces of ukraine. as for this, there was interesting information, it sounded today in court. from the lawyer e.e. roman hrenkevych, they say that it is not available now, the contract states that if the clothes were of poor quality, they should be replaced, but the lawyer notes that he the ministry of defense received no complaints about poor-quality clothing, and this is exactly what the defense is appealing for, and the prosecutors are asking: for roman hrenkevych, a preventive measure in the form of detention with an alternative bail of 500 million hryvnias,

and as you just saw on the live broadcast, and on our air, the judge , most likely, went to the conference room to already choose this preventive measure, so i think that most likely closer to 10, by 10:30 p.m. we will already know what... exactly what preventive measure will elect roman hrenkiewicz, who, let me remind you, they were detained in odesa this morning, the head of the security intelligence service says that he was trying to find a way to cross the state border and hide in one of the countries of the european union. roman genkevich himself does not comment, we asked him before the meeting to comment on whether he really wanted to cross the state border and hide there. and said that we will hear everything at the meeting, and he

does not give separate comments, and the lawyers tried to move the meeting from the pechersk court to the shevchenkiv district court, appealing to the fact that the investigation was taking place in shevchenkiv district of the capital, and not in pochersk, that is why and in this way they wanted to move the meeting to that district, prosecutors say that they consider it a delay in the case and will prove it. roman hrynkevich's involvement in the creation of a criminal group, i would like to remind you that his father ihor hrynkevich has been in custody since the end of december 2023, he was then detained for trying to bribe one of the officials of the dbr. we see now that journalists are most likely talking to roman renkevych, so i will pass it on to you, serhiy. i also have to run and listen to what is happening thank you, thank you dmytro, it was dmytro didora from

the pechersk district court of the capital, there they choose a preventive measure for roman hrynkevich, the son of the famous lviv businessman ihor hrynkevich, who had contracts with the ministry of defense of ukraine and we know about this high-profile case, well, at least for the last month , this case has been on listen, i'll remind you once again that ihor reiterovich is on the air. maksym rozumny and viktor boberenko, and gentlemen, let 's start our big conversation, i hope that roman ugrenkevych will not be given a preventive measure so quickly and dmytro didora will already be to be included a little later in our broadcast from zelenskyi's statement about the elections, again about the elections, it seems that zelenskyi has put all the dots in two, that the elections will take place only after the martial law is lifted. in ukraine, here in an interview with the british fourth tv channel , he said that ukraine should think about how

to hold presidential elections, although the law prohibits this during martial law. let's listen to what zelensky said. the verkhovna rada must vote and give a mandate for elections. they should raise this issue and vote. they cannot do this because of the prohibition of the law, they cannot not break the law. and the situation is that we have elections, wartime is prohibited, and the situation, if it could even be done, what to do with the occupied, temporarily occupied territories, and how to hold legitimate elections so that they are recognized by the world, if we have six more almost millions abroad, and they must have infrastructure. unfortunately, we do not have an online election format, and if you ask me, i

believe that we need to think about how to do it, mr. maxim, how to think so that it do? well, i think it's quite strange that our government is only now beginning to think. about that, although i don't believe it's just now starting to think, it's, i think, a very important thought that's been going around all the time in so... so to speak, the expert environment that serves the banking industry, and i think that thought all the time in the head of the president himself as well, because there is a certain fork of possibilities: on the one hand, there is a great temptation to hold elections in this

situation, when he is the president of a warring country and so, so to speak... to become everyone the advantages of the legitimacy of this status , on the other hand, of course, all the reservations that president zelenskyi just voiced are very significant and they actually, well, make this, such a decision impossible if zelenskyi himself or his team were to make it, that's why there is this, so to speak, a pass in the direction of the verkhovna rada. maybe some initiatives will appear there, how it can be done, well , putin found it, came up with it, there, although there were also different options, that is, it seems to me that there is no solution, think, next time, the presidential team, there will be more than once , and

in general, it seems to me that this topic is in ukrainian. in society , it sounds quite artificial now, and i didn’t see the whole story, did the journalist actually ask zelenskyi about the probability of this election , or was it initiated by the president himself, so to speak, zelenskyi, the journalist asked , the journalist asked, no, if the journalist asked, then the news is like there is no one like me, but he said the usual understandable things. and there is no solution to date, well, but in the conditions when there is a war, of course, there should not be elections, and there is no such possibility to hold these elections, on the one hand, and on the other hand, russia says that we will fight until the very end, and as

medvedev said, whether it is 10 or 50 years, however long it takes for russia to destroy ukraine and... and how in this situation, mr. viktor, on the one hand, there is the government elected in the 19th year, that is, 5 years ago, on the other hand, there is this uncertain time of the war, how long this war will last, does this mean that throughout this period the power will be in the hands of one group of people, of one party, in fact monovla. and how will it generally correspond to the fact that, well , somehow the political elites must change and democracy must work, well, on the one hand, i , well, i claim that there is no pass in the direction of the parliament, because both the parliament and the government in our country

are controlled from the office of the president, and the president himself admitted at his last meeting that... decisions are made by five or six people, well , very effective managers who cooperate with him, that's all the decisions, assumptions, draft decisions, yes, that's it for now some kind of project, uh, accepted in a narrow circle, what should be said about the office of the president, they constantly monitor the situation in the country, and i can see it, by the way, in the regions you are better than. in kyiv, in kyiv it is easier to get lost there, but i, for example, in sumy, it is clear here that everyone who is close to sociology knows each other, and if they order some kind of research from the office, i may not know the details, and the actual , i haven't seen the entire sample, yes, if i knew there, i know that the sample there is 60-70 people

for the entire region, someday i can there to ask the hunters, who are the questions, yes, there is something else somewhere , but i assure you that this issue is monitored all the time, and what they give us is then the part that they give as official, yes, for example, and possibly true, uh, this is related to, well , how much do you trust or do not trust the president, zelensky, including, they see that trust in him is falling, and that is why the president's office wants to hold elections while there is, as it were, an electoral base, while you can really win there even from one round, that is especially to eliminate the main competitor , about which we all guess, yes, who is the main one... well, this is very cool during the war, yes, the generals fight like they don’t like it, but we choose the president here, it’s very cool, that’s why at the moment, this is a group

of people who really make decisions and who whisper to the president, because he reigns, the fair rules, let's put it this way, they, well, not the collective fair, yes, they just want elections, they really want elections, but they want presidential elections because... they understand that the parliament itself does not there will be a constitutional majority, well, it is important for the parliamentarians, they understand that many will not get into the parliament, and therefore how can they keep their mandate longer, that is why they would like to have an equation with many unknowns, they really want it, but if the rating falls below a certain level , yes zelenskyi, then they will change their strategy by 180°, and indeed, as my colleague says, they will... prolong these elections there and on them for 50 years, or at least 30 will be enough, the only thing that there are all bears who

talk about it, they are ready to say so to fight for 30 years, our kuleba is ready to fight with shovels, but it all depends on whether the armies are ready to fight and whose army will fall first, but i am sure that we have more motivation, so we will win, but the war may be prolonged later. well, at least there, the war can be fought to a victorious end, and here we went to the borders of 1991, and there were three skirmishes per hour, that can also be declared as a war, well, yes, thank you, mr. viktor, mr. igor, if zelensky would say, let's say, in the current situation, i don't i want a second presidential term, and the question is not about me at all, the question is about democracy, the question is about electability, the question is about... variables of political elites, the question is that the state should develop, so that we do not look like russia there, when, presidential elections turn into putin's election. if he

had said this and clearly emphasized it, would it have been clear to everyone both in the country and to the political elite that the issue is not personal interests or the interests of zelensky's team, yermak. uh, i don't know who podalyak and stefanchuk are there, the question is because he, as the guarantor of the constitution, takes care, first of all, of the rights of citizens who can vote and are ready to vote? well, of course, if he said that, from such a moral and ethical point of view, and to some extent from a political point of view, it would be a very telling signal that we are really focused on victory, all election issues will be solved without me after we we will win, but we must understand that he will not do it for two reasons, and by the way, one of these reasons is correct and objective, if someone there did not treat the current chapter of the state, it is connected with the fact that if the current

head of state makes such a statement, well, it leads to the disorganization of his team, many people lose any desire to work, to do something, because the president actually says that i am going there , well, it is clear that this is an open date and we are in a state of war, but it will be demotivating. on many of those who are now near the president, and the second point, well, he will not say it, because i think that his environment is very actively forming and has already formed such an image of him to a large extent of the future, in which the country cannot cope and cope without zelensky, the justification here can be, for example, the thesis that there will be a second term, they wanted to promise one, because we could not spend the first term normally , the war broke out on a large scale, accordingly.. ... we did not do everything that we planned, so such statements will not be made now and they will not be made in the future, but as for whether the office is thinking about the elections, yes, i think they are thinking every day, considering different

scenarios, options , and there is one very important thing here clarification, colleagues mentioned it in one or another format, it still depends on the intensity of the war, on what will happen specifically on the front, if we imagine that in a year the war will enter there, well, for example, we take a pessimistic scenario, as much as possible frozen there. such a situation, when no one is moving anywhere, everything turns exclusively into skirmishes there on the front line and there is no shelling of the territory of ukraine at all, well, believe me, they will return to the issue of elections very quickly and will return, including through statements that will begin to be heard from our colleagues, this is the first scenario, the second scenario, let 's present the situation that our western colleagues can start actively talking about the need for elections, because they will consider it necessary that the government in ukraine be re-elected, which supports... some kind of peace treaty with russia, which, to put it mildly, will not be accepted very positively by the majority of ukrainian citizens, but nevertheless, which will end the war, which

some of us may be interested in. or partners in the future, i'm not saying now, for today today, fortunately, there is no such critical mass, this option is also possible, and in the end there is a third option, even in this interview , president zelenskyi said one interesting phrase, he said it in previous interviews, about what we have so far there are no opportunities to conduct elections in an electronic format, but if such an opportunity arises , if they think about it for a long time, they will hold discussions again with our partners, they will say that yes, a normal system can work, yes, if there is a danger of this experiment, but... times they generate difficult decisions, let's go, it's better to have such elections than not having them at all, and the problem will be solved, they will conduct, i don't know, in action, not in action in something else, our partners will recognize this and put an end to it. thank you, gentlemen, for the first block of conversation, after a short break on our tv channel, we will return to the studio. events, events that are happening right now and affect our lives. of course, the news feed reports on

them. however, it is not enough to know what is happening, it is necessary to understand. antin borkovskyi and invited guests experts soberly evaluate events, analyze them, modeling our future, every saturday at 1:10 p.m., with a repeat on sunday at 10:10 a.m. studio zahid with anton borkovsky at espresso. friends, this is the verdict program. my name is serhii rudenko, we work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. buci, for those watching us live there right now , please like this video and also vote in our poll, today we ask you if you support multiple citizenship in ukraine? yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube , if you have your opinion, please write in the comments, if you are sitting in front of the tv and watching us on the air, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you support multiple

citizenship in ukraine 0800. 211 381 no 0800 211382, all calls to these numbers are free, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote, call. let me remind you that ihor reiterovych, maksym rozumny and viktor boberenko are our guests today, we are talking about what has been said, heard from the president of ukraine and today zelenskyy spoke about the territories, about the territories that... which are inhabited, as he said, historically, which are historically populated by ukrainians, today he, by his decree, instructed the government to develop an action plan for preserving the national identity of ukrainians in russia, we are talking about the territories of the current krasnodar territory, belgorod, bryansk, voronetsk, kursk, rostov oblasts of the russian federation, let's listen to what zelensky said. today, we must take

steps not only to strengthen conciliar unity of ukraine and our people, and actions for the unity of rights and freedoms, the truth about ukrainians, the truth about us and the truth about our history, and for this purpose today i signed the decree on the territories of the russian federation historically inhabited by ukrainians. mr. maksym, this... thesis about the lands historically inhabited by us in the russian federation, it has been around for a long time, it is not actually the idea of ​​zelensky himself, these stories constantly appear either in social networks or in some articles about these regions, which are territories where many ukrainians live,

and maybe these territories are in... how do you assess the president's efforts to pump up this story now or is it just such subtle trolling of putin and medvedev on the day of the conclave and in this way to annoy the russians, well, in general, this topic is certainly worth attention. and worthy of state policy, at one time in early 2004, i was part of the delegation of the ukrainian world coordination council, which was then headed by mykhailo horyn, and i actually traveled all these lands, that is, we were in belgorod, and in kursk, and in voronezh, and in rostov region and kuban, and met ukrainians there, met with... communities,

er,