ukrainians and perhaps these territories are ukrainian, how do you assess the president's efforts to pump up this story now, or is it just such subtle trolling of putin and medvedev on the day of the conclave and in this way to annoy the russians, well, in general, this topic is certainly... worthy of attention and worth of state policy, at the beginning of 2004 , i was a member of the delegation of the ukrainian world coordination council, which was then headed by mykhailo horyn, i actually traveled all these lands, that is, we were in belgorod, kursk, voronezh, and in rostovskaya region and in the kuban, and met ukrainians there. met with the communities

, to be honest, practical political consequences today, especially in the conditions of great, well , great propaganda pressure on the population of these regions, the initiative of the president will obviously not have, but, but this is such a very symbolic step, which... in a symbolic war, uh, it's expected, so to speak, and somewhere there is this uh elephant or horse or, well , it's clearly not a farce, but this move is, so to speak, expected somewhere, when we talk about trolling, i think which is appropriate since just these days, putin issued a decree on studying the question of the property of the russian empire, the soviet union. and the russian

federation abroad, that is, their ambition is, so to speak, much greater, they are also in bangladesh, by the way, they probably already planned to take something away, and we just mentioned the historical lands, but it is such a long way to go , which we are just starting, and today it is rather symbolic. plane, if we are talking on a very down-to-earth level, then i think that there was a meeting in the administration in the office of the president, how to celebrate the day of the unity of ukraine, well, what did they find there, this is citizenship for ukrainians abroad, well, there is mention of ukrainian lands, that’s what they found and issued, thank you, mr. viktor, the chicken is there next to you... they are already howling, they say,

ukraine has territorial claims against the russian federation, well, the governor of kurshchyna has already spoken about the fact that it is right that putin is conducting a special military operation, because you see, they are threatening us, that there are threats from the sumy region towards kurshchyna, well, even me not in sumy, but even closer to the border, i am 20 km away in one of the communities. in the hotel , i'm talking to you right now, and here to suja, well, give me your hand and let's say that suja is the hundredth town of the sumy regiment, and there they talk to surzhiks like me one-on-one, we spent there when there was still such a project euroregion yaroslavna , the europeans gave us money to civilize russia and we made exchanges, by the way, i took students there with my colleague... sometimes on

folklore expeditions, so that we could study there, it was called the study of the ukrainian-russian borderland, in fact we looked there along the seym, on one side there were ukrainian villages in the russian federation, and on the other a russian village, they did not intermarry until the 60s , and very clearly identified that we, and then there ... time has been lost, it should have been what zelensky did now, it should have been done there even under the early yushchenko, so uh, and it was necessary to support their self-identification, if only, so that it was there 20 years ago, i to you, i will tell you what else there was...

ukrainian societies, what else, but just on household level in ukrainian villages, we were closer to them than those guys with the zaseym, and that 's for sure, and it's not in one village, but it's in... every ukrainian village we saw, and it's not one, there was more than one trip , many such trips, but on the other hand , there was something else in the kuban, i tell this as an anecdote, but it is not an anecdote, i was in kirch, when there was this incident with tuzla, and a delegation of kuban cossacks arrived, kuban cossacks in my same these things in circassian clothes, and i was also a witness of such... some grandfathers say about kerch, about tuzla , about crimea in general, this is our russian land covered with the blood of our ancestors, to which the ukrainian officer replies, this is our ukrainian land, it's

like that, and it was like a paradox for me, they defend russia in ukrainian , they defend ukraine in russian, this is not a joke, and there is an identity somewhere... ukrainians began to disappear somewhere in the late 90s, early 20s, why, because already the second generation went somewhere to kursk, to belgorod, we study together, we studied together in groups, and we have what we have, there are no ukrainian schools there, they can speak the ukrainian language, it is already difficult for them to read, and that is why a generation has already grown up who, who still says somewhere, well, yes, we are hakhly, there is hakhlandia, this is here, there is that, they are still here... aware of their difference from the russians, but not the coat anymore, and i can tell you this as a narrow specialist, however, at least you need to try to do it, and someone will still want to remember the language of their ancestors, and customs, and

become ukrainians , well, it's actually not too late, the irish people even forgot it at the beginning language theirs, and there, the ethnic code was more faith than language, so come on, let’s try, let’s try, but again, this is now, how will we try, well , we can only say that we will not extradite the kubans back, there or those who prove our ukrainian ethnic group, whoever says the word "polyanytsia" is ours conditionally, well, you, who can say the word "polyanytsia" in russia according to... average estimates are somewhere around a million, that is, the diaspora, or more than a million, this is the largest diaspora of ukrainians, by the way, abroad, which is in the russian federation, maxim, if i am wrong, in my opinion it is , it is, it is quite large, it is just very

difficult to count there, you understand, that is, one thing is the official data of russian population censuses, they are, under... pressure after in 2004, especially after 2014, a very large number of citizens of the russian federation stopped identifying themselves as ukrainians, because it is dangerous, because they are enemies, you see, so it is very, very difficult to use any objective numbers. but really, it's millions, millions, mr. igor, what about ukraine? can do for that these one million ukrainians , some of whom may not identify themselves or do not show that they are ukrainians, that they are ukrainians in principle, that we have a strong diaspora that could influence, including

the russian government, or that a million is not enough, even to influence some region there, well, there are actually more than a million of them, the last data i saw, it was until the 14th year, it was... people who identified themselves as ukrainians, that ethnic origin is a very important point, but i would address it in this decree i would like to pay attention to two points: it is clear that this is no decree about territorial claims, they are not discussed there at all, what is burning with the russians, everyone wrote there, and even medvedev went out on another binge and wrote some of his post there , well, this is actually not bad, let them tear the roof, or not only the roof, and they discuss these issues, there are two key points, the first point... it is connected with maximum identification and collection of all the facts of crimes committed by russia regarding, well, people who identify themselves as ukrainians, are citizens of the russian federation, this is very important, i do not rule out that these facts may, well, in the distant future, but nevertheless

be useful to us during the various trials there, well, international ones, which will take place and where we we can cite, as an example of the colonial policy of the same russian federation, on the one hand. to their own citizens, who are simply ukrainians by ethnic origin, because the russians really liked to talk about some kind of oppression of russian-speaking people directly in ukraine, well you can beat them with their... weapons only with real facts, because they could never provide these facts, they invented them, and there you can actually collect a lot of such facts, there starting from the closing of schools, the absence of a total absence kindergartens, or simply the availability of books in the ukrainian language in local libraries, and the second point , again, what we did not do and in principle can start doing, is the creation of a certain system of conveying alternative, well , true of... information to them about that what is happening in ukraine, what is the russian federation doing, and how is it, including, well

, for example, engaging in internal genocide against small nations, as they like to call them, including representatives of, well , not a small nation, but those who identifies themselves as ukrainians, this is a very important moment, this is such an information campaign , it is mentioned in the decree, it is not known what the mechanisms will be, let's say , i understand that the cabinet of ministers will now work on them, the main thing is that they do not delay it , but this idea actually. very good, because the information war continues, it has not gone anywhere, and it will only continue to develop, and we need to look for ways out directly for those people who have the passport of the russians, well , the russian federation, but have been identified, are being identified or could would identify themselves in a different way, because if we bring them a different point of view, well, maybe something will change directly inside their country, they will start asking the right question and behave in the right way. thank you, ihor reiterovych, rozumny and viktor boberenko were there guests of today's program, gentlemen , i thank you for participating in the program, during

our hour we conducted a survey, we asked you whether you support multiple citizenship in ukraine, so 28%, 26% of those who are watching us now on tv , believe that multiple citizenship in ukraine can be, 74 against, on youtube in our country. we have a ratio of 29 yes, 71% no, this is the verdict program today, i say goodbye to you until tomorrow, i wish you all good health, take care of yourself and your relatives, goodbye, welcome to the espresso channel, today in... our program war and weapons are two interrelated topics that some consider

a challenge to our security, some, on the contrary , new opportunities for the country's defense capability. so, the first topic is the development and use in ukraine of the potential of private military and defense consulting companies as one of the tools for strengthening the country's defense forces. in ukraine, by the way, several draft laws were prepared regarding private military... companies, but work on them was never completed completed, so what experiences and practices should ukraine take into account right now in the conditions of war, what pros and cons there might be. and the second topic for discussion is the expansion of citizens' rights to own firearms. it seemed that after the 22nd year, the need for an adequate law on weapons, an increase in the percentage of gun owners in the state is... which were clearly understood and society demanded such a certain liberal law on

weapons. let me remind you that in the first reading of the bill on the right to civilian firearms weapons in ukraine was approved a day before the start of the active phase of the war on july 23, 2022, however, the second reading of this draft law is currently being prepared in the parliament, and a significant number of amendments to this document and its substance have appeared. in the eyes of the amendment, it can be regarded rather as a step towards undermining the defense capability of our state, we will also talk about this in our program. my name is serhiy sgurets, i am the director of the defense express company, which is currently working together with the espresso channel to cover the most relevant events and topics life of our army and defense-industrial complex. andriy kepkalo, the founder and head of omega consulting group, joins us now. mr. andriy, congratulations. i am glad to see and hear from you, congratulations, mr. serhiy

, thank you for the invitation, well, before the broadcast, we had such a certain discussion, so as not to repeat ourselves about the topics that we supposedly talked about before, but i looked and in fact now we are talking about private military companies very little, and here you are a person who has considerable experience in creating such companies, and there is a certain number of people who believe that this step... while this direction of movement in the state towards private companies is dangerous and irrational. unfortunately, we haven't been able to find an opponent for your position so far today, so i'll try it myself. to master some things related to private companies, but first of all , given your experience, i would like you to tell us, tentatively, what a private company is in some standard sense, if at all there is such a standard understanding of pmcs or consulting companies because

the word consulting in the name of your company, i think, appeared for a reason. yes , well then let's start from the beginning, unfortunately we have private military companies, they are always associated with mercenaries, this is very bad, i do not support such an opinion, but if we are already talking about mercenaries, then i want to tell you, that mercenaries exist as long as there is war, for example, about na... troops are even written in the bible, and there are a lot of examples when mercenary troops were once used by someone, i even read machiavelli, machiavelli is against the use of mercenaries , but i have a different opinion on this matter, and there is the subject of both mercenaries and private military

companies, it unfolded for a very long time, somewhere before... the beginning of the 2000s, and now in the 2000s the private military industry has matured and become more regulated, why? because the united states of america, they have started, they have started hostilities, both in afghanistan and in iraq, and i was directly involved in those... activities, and i just want to remind you, how since the beginning of the 2000s this topic, it has evolved, we will not talk about the 90s there, about the 80s, the 70s and so on, how this topic of pvc, it has grown up, in general, uh, the united states america, they uh, made the decision uh to go into iraq, and i

remember the secretary of defense at the time, if i'm not mistaken, was donald rumsfeld, and he, he went on television, and he said, let's put it this way, he , i think he was trying to reassure the people of the united states of america, and he said things like, the iraq war, it's going to last maybe five days, maybe five weeks, maybe five months, but it won't last 5 years, and it turned out that they... the americans counted on one thing, another thing happened, and when another thing happened, and they realized that this there will be a war for years, ah, then the question arose, what are we going to do about it, and american politicians, they decided to talk, think together, and what to do about it, and there were three options, again, this is not some kind of speculation facts, i

directly participated in this, and there were three options: the first option is to collect my things and to leave, to leave iraq, it was not right away, well, they did not accept it. the second option was to declare mobilization, and then, it was, well, political suicide, which is also not suitable. and so they chose the third option: to create private military companies and use private military companies, both on the territory of iraq and on the territory of afghanistan. that is, to what? we come here in this short excursion into history that the united states of america is the country that uses private military companies, the second country is probably the arab emirates, for them a private military company was a support in a critical situation, unfortunately, in our country we look at private military companies as some kind of caricature, you know, private

military companies, they have demand, everyone nowadays uses private military... military companies, governments use private military companies, multinational corporations like exonmobil, shell, total, they all use, use services private military companies, non-governmental organizations, such as, for example, save the children or caritas, they use the services of private military companies, a little bit of other services, even there some kind of logistics or some other, but these are private military companies, the security of the vatican. who is working today? the swiss, well, how did the swiss get into the vatican? you can say naymantsi. and i don't want to use this example because it's so bad, i, well... i don't want to use it, but i have to, even terrorists have their own private military companies, i can call it malgama

tactical, it is based, if i am not mistaken , in afghanistan, but it works for the benefit of terrorist organizations, that is, the whole world uses the services of private military companies, and here for some reason it is always taboo, and i don't understand why, but when we're talking about a private military... a company, what are the signs or symptoms, well, the basic things that you can really say that this structure or this group of people is a private military company or a consulting company or a defense consulting company, what are the unmasking signs of a private company? eh, it's a company, it's very simple, it 's a limited liability company that provides services of a military nature, well, for example, we are engaged in the training of the armed forces , we were engaged in, we are not engaged in now because we do not have the resources, we were engaged in the training of the armed forces of ukraine, we trained operators,

for example, for atgms, manpads, we trained sappers, we trained saboteurs and so on, that is, such activity, it has signs, activities of a military nature, well, here you have, for example, the signs of the pmc, fine, but if a company is engaged in medicine, training doctors there, is engaged in airport security, is engaged in collecting intelligence in the interests of rural structures, are these also private village companies? uh, no, but the last time you said intelligence gathering, it can already be considered a private military company, and by the way, there is a very high demand in the market right now for... private, let's call it private intelligence agencies, intelligence companies , if you want an example, then let me give you this example bellingkat, well, it is

a private company, well, you can call it a journalistic investigation, the conclusions of this company are listened to, for example, by the hague court, well then it means that the boundaries of private companies are still quite blurred, it is difficult to determine why this is being asked, because relatively speaking, in our country... it was about the 20th year that president zelenskyi says that we really need to define ourselves as private companies, two draft laws, they are hanging somewhere, zelensky says that it is necessary to make sure that they do not become the basis of certain oligarchic forces there and so on, so where does this threat or warning to private companies come from, if it does not correspond to the essence ... pvc in view of what you said earlier. that's, that's a very, very relevant question that you've asked now. you see, in

civilized countries, i don't, i don't want to offend anyone, but in civilized countries there is no such thought that a private military the company may be subordinate to some oligarch there, and work in the interests of some private persons there. and god forbid there try to remove the government or something, well, the same big private military company in the united states, this is black water, which does not exist today, and i know its head, rick prince, well , believe me, he has no idea even such an option that one day he can turn his private military company black water or some other against the authorities and leave. i don't know how to eliminate the government there who is currently joe biden and change him to trump, for example , well, this is a very simple example, you understand,

that is, the events that happened in ukraine before, for example, if i am not mistaken, it was an incident, in which mr. kolomoisky took part, when there were certain actions with ukrtransnafta, well, there were some people there, armed, not armed, they entered the territory of the enterprise and so on, listen, frankly speaking, this is not my problem, that we have power structures allow there to be some illegal armed formations in ukraine, and they could enter some enterprises there, close them or open them and so on and so on, you understand, that is, a private military company, it is registered somewhere, that is , it is a legal entity. it can no longer be considered as an illegal group, because there is registration, of course, if there is a group, a group of people who have weapons available and there is

some... means of personal protection, and there are a lot of them, then it falls under if i am not mistaken under article 260 of the criminal code of the code of ukraine, illegal armed or armed formations, but a private company, it is registered somewhere, you understand, this is the first, second, mentality, mentality, we looked at what happened in the russian... federation, when wagner's pmk went on the offensive, relatively speaking , moscow , i don't want to offend anyone, but people who have not done anything wrong, they are not afraid of anything , you understand, that is, to be afraid that some pmcs will try to remove the government there, look at the events of 2014, ah, people, people did not like what was happening in

the country, the people... rose up, they used force, that's when we lost this monopoly on force, the state lost its monopoly on force, the people rose up and they removed the power, that is , yanukovych fled from ukraine and we have achieved this, how to say, in the ukrainian language, i don't remember, with the help of the population, and not with the help of the pmk, that is, i don't remember any cases in ukraine where the pmk, private military. companies were involved in some illegal activities, that is, these fears that we have are completely unfounded, pvk is an instrument of the state, not an instrument against the state, but for some reason people do not want to hear it, or simply do not hear it, you understand, that is, as i understand it, the attitude towards the pkv is more a consequence of the fact that we are held hostage by our old mythologists, and because of this

, uvono says: we do not want to see the potential that is currently hidden behind the pvc as a union of structured citizens, which can be ensured by raising the bar or creating high-quality units of the armed forces or separate units of other power structures, but then here is the question of regulation norms, the law on private companies, britain, the united states, there are no such laws, although these companies are represented all over the world, what path should we take then? these flirting with the laws, they, the legislation should probably be limited, except by certain licensing of such activities and to create transparent mechanisms for registration and control of such structures, well, this is like one of the options, well, let's say it like this, a license, licensing, it is possible, you can get, but you understand, we have licenses for

for example, the transfer of knowledge, if we talk about the transfer of knowledge, that is, we are limited only to training, that is, if a private military company, for example, conventionally speaking, it goes on a mission to the congo, in order to conduct training there for the armed forces of the democratic republic of the congo , she needs a license to transfer knowledge, but we are restricting pmc here, so... because we, we are limiting the activities of pmc, because we are talking exclusively about the activities of pmc outside ukraine. if we return to the law of ukraine on pvc, then the law of ukraine already answers the question. this is a law of ukraine, which can only apply on the territory of ukraine. the law of ukraine will not apply on the territory of mozambique or on the territory of mali or burkina faso. that is, that in ukraine we regulate with such a law.

unfortunately, when there was a debate on this issue, the author of this bill, mrs. vasylevska smaglyuk, she created a working group, but i don’t know how many times this working group met, but i was invited to one meeting, i spoke there, and i was more not at these meetings of the working group invited because i was, well, categorically against many points of this law, for example, i don’t see why our ukrainian pmc should create warehouses with ammunition, with weapons, with armored vehicles and so on, what are we going to do with it, that is, this this law in the format in which it was written is absolutely counterproductive, but it will never pass in the verkhovna rada, a law in which it is written that a ukrainian private military company, i have a training ground, and what should i do now, should i

drive 10 bats to the training ground? put it there mortars