armed forces of ukraine, do not ignore air raid signals and be sure to stay with espresso. don't miss the verdict with serhii rudenko in a few seconds. good evening. we are from ukraine. glory to ukraine. this is the verdict program. my name is serhiy rudenko. greetings to all and. wishes everyone good health. for the next two hours, we will talk about ukraine, the world, the war, and our victory. today in the program. russian missile terror continues. nine people who died under the rubble of buildings in kyiv, kharkiv and pavlograd will stop the terrorist putin. more weapons for ukraine? lavrov's hypocritical statements at the un security council and new aid packages from allies in ramstein. elections during wartime. zelensky

suggests that the verkhovna rada consider their organization, who benefits from it. about this and other things, during the next hour we will talk with our guests: volodymyr ogrysko, former minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, serhiy taran, political scientist and co-chairman of the public initiative right, dmytro snigerok. in the second part of our program, which will begin in hours. will be deputy studio, we will have iryna gerashchenko, oleksiy kucherenko and yulia klymenko as our guests. however, before starting our big conversation, i suggest you watch the video of the consequences of another terrorist attack by the russian federation on peaceful cities of ukraine, at least ten people died, dozens were injured in kyiv, kharkiv and pavlograd. this is how the rescue operation took place in these cities today.

есть, примияем, he is alive, friends, for those who are now watching us live on youtube and facebook, please put like this video and also vote in our poll. today we ask you about the following: do you trust anti-corruption law enforcement agencies. yes, no, if you are sitting in front of the tv and you have a phone or smartphone in your hands, you can call 0800 211 381 if you trust anti-corruption law enforcement. call, all

calls to these numbers are free, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. we have a politician, diplomat, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in contact 2007-9 years. volodymyr gryzko. mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. i congratulate you, mr. serhiy, good health. mr. volodymyr , let's start with the un security council, because... the russian federation tried to shift the blame for what happened in donetsk to the ukrainians and called on the un security council and the countries that are part of the united nations not to provide weapons to ukraine, under during the meeting of the un security council, sergey lavrov continued to deny the independence and sovereignty of ukraine, claiming that the ukrainian people supposedly not interested. in the war against russia,

but the west is pushing ukraine to continue this war. let's hear what the newest rebentrop said. the reality is that... despite the complete failure of the armed forces of ukraine on the battlefield, the western patrons of the kyiv regime continue to push it with maniacal persistence to a senseless military confrontation. despite the fact that the kyiv regime survives thanks to western handouts, and even their spokesmen admit this, most ukrainians are beginning to understand who their real enemy is and who for many years troubled their heads, scaring them.

russia has committed, is waging a fairly brutal and aggressive war against ukraine. how long will the un tolerate russia and lavov? you know, i am forced to listen to all this propaganda nonsense, because we must know the enemy, as they say to the face. unfortunately, the answer to your question, mr. sergey, will be negative, unfortunately, the organization of the united nations in this. in the form in which this insult to common sense cannot be tolerated today, you see, you rightly called him a modern ribentrop, but there is one difference the world did not listen to the then-reibentrop, the nazi ribbentrop, but

today, unfortunately, based on the structure of this organization, the world must listen, and must listen to his absolute lies, which in... already, you know, do not fit into any boundaries , but everyone is watching, and they are forced to pretend that they are going to think about something somewhere, consult. before his speech, on behalf of the un deputy secretary-general for disarmament affairs, they talked about the fact that it was necessary somehow... to end it all, of course it was mentioned that russia is an aggressor, well, not in a direct understanding that she started her own invasion, but there was no resolute condemnation of all this, on the big one, this

is today's organization of the united nations in action, return to your complete inactivity, so expect some changes, i think it is rather weak hope, there will be no changes, russia blocks everything it wants in the security council and not only in the security council, so i am afraid that we will be forced to gradually withdraw from this organization, unless it remains as a platform for talking about those or other global problems, but no more. more one fellow student of ... russia against ukraine , vladimir putin, dmytro medvedev declared that russia will go to the victorious end, no matter how many years until that end, 10 years or 50 years, that such a state as ukraine does not exist, that ukrainians are the same russians who

for some reason decided that they are different and have the right to independence and sovereignty, one could certainly be ironic. about what medvedev said, but usually what is on medvedev's tongue is on putin's mind, and maybe all of them are on their minds, and in fact it is quite a serious statement that came out of medvedev's mouth, and obviously not only the ukrainian side, not only ukrainians, but also the whole world should react to this statement, because medvedev actually said that russia will destroy. and then an independent country, and i have a quite logical question: who can prevent russia from doing this now, from fighting for 10 or 50 years, well, apart from the armed forces, of course, well, mr. sergey, the answer, i

think, lies on the surface, it is said that this should be the position of a collective measure, which, well, it has already happened with the hands, the armed forces of ukraine must defeat. to this monster , i honestly don't see another option yet, unfortunately, you see, because of what is happening in the united states of america, because you... have become hostages of the internal party struggle, to the exhaustion, to the great unfortunately, now we have a pause in aid, and the representatives of the white house, in particular kirby, are right to say that these consequences can be catastrophic, but it is almost impossible to kill the political ambitions now. all the more and more, well, almost impossible, because

the republicans and the democrats are divided in different corners, and although it seems that there is some chance of reaching a compromise in the senate, it will be very difficult to achieve this compromise in the house of representatives, i recently spoke with some ... the ends that are close to those who sit in the senate, and they have expressed quite serious skepticism that this solution in the house of representatives will be able to be reached quickly, which means that the situation on the fronts will become really threatening for us, unless now they will strengthen and at the same time, they will sharply increase their assistance. european partners can, as in particular great britain or germany do, but this

does not at all remove that, does not reduce that role and does not remove the responsibility of the united states of america, which actually should have signed up to support ukraine to victory over russia. today, mr. volodymyr, the 18th meeting of the contact group on the defense of ukraine in the ramshtein format is taking place in virtual... mode, it was dedicated, or is dedicated to long-term needs of ukraine, and this was reported in the pentagon, the secretary of defense of the united states of america, lloyd austin, during the opening of ramstein 18, emphasized the importance of supporting kyiv in resisting full-scale russian aggression, let's listen to what he said. ukrainian defenders continue to inflict

significant losses on the kremlin forces. putin continues to sacrifice staggering numbers of russian troops in his reckless and reckless war. putin hopes that the missiles and drones will demoralize the ukrainian people and break the morale of the ukrainian army. therefore, i urge this group to dig deeper to provide ukraine with more vital land. air defense and interception. do i understand correctly, mr. volodymyr, that our allies were not ready for such a bloody, long-term war of russia against ukraine, and this means that what is happening in ukraine on the part of russia is a surprise, including for western intelligence , well, judging by how the countries of the north atlantic alliance. and the same countries that are part of the ramstein group are now trying to catch up and gain momentum

arming their troops, doesn't this show that the measure was miscalculated, regarding russia, regarding their intentions, regarding their plans? well, without a doubt, mr. sergey, this is obvious, the west after the collapse of the ussr lived in... already created illusions that russia is a friend, comrade and brother. well, we have seen it in everything that has happened during these last 30 years. russia was forgiven for everything, they forgave the genocide in chechnya, they forgave georgia, they forgave the 14th year in ukraine, they forgave the atrocities in syria and so on and so forth. that is, it was all on the surface, because they believed until the last moment that everything would be fine and that... they would be able, at the expense of smaller countries such as ukraine, georgia, and so on,

to negotiate with russia and play a game with them very often a corruption game, well, putin perceived it differently, that if you retreat, then i will advance and began to advance, well, what can i say if the germans themselves are talking about the fact that in the bundeswehr there is a very large part of the same people. which we should have, do not start, but here is the fact that what is happening in the united states itself america. clearly shows that the same trump is trying to play the situation that is developing in ukraine, the situation that is developing in europe, in general, in connection with russia's war against ukraine, and trump is trying to tell everyone that he will come to power and he will definitely stop this war, because he knows putin very well, he

knows zelensky very well, so he will need little time to stop this war. who is this rhetoric aimed at, mr. volodymyr, that is, who is the consumer of this information or these promises of any kind supported by nothing, that is, for whom trump works, for the voter, whether the voter cares, the war of russia against ukraine, that trump can play a decisive role in this war. well, you see, mr. sergey, i think that we are talking about such a phenomenon of democratic societies as populism, and trump is an outstanding populist of all times and nations, that is, he is a person who lives in it, and that is why he likes it, because which offers absolutely, well, sorry for for for

for such an assessment of ridiculous solutions to complex questions, well, how can you say that i am for 24 hours... will stop the war between ukraine and russia, well, unless he starts bombing the kremlin, and then the kremlin will understand that it is necessary to stop, but i doubt that he will do it, or does he think that ukraine will agree to stop , to stop and give 20% of their land to the occupier and thus demonstrate that international law is not needed by anyone, including the civilized world, that is, these things. which definitely work exclusively for the voter, for the average voter who understands little about world politics and does not understands what it's all about, and when he's told that i'll fix everything quickly, you won't even have to think about it out of your pocket

, not a single dollar will go to any help, then he definitely likes it, especially when... when now, there are indeed certain problems with the same border, when there is a need to solve the issue of stopping this flow of illegal migrants from the south to the united states of america, money is needed for this, then of course you can calmly oppose the need to allocate there several tens of billions of dollars to build a wall with mexico than to... help some ukraine, which for many americans is somewhere a month away, so i think this is typical and exceptional populism, and trump is the number one populist in the united states of america, at least. today , belarusian dictator oleksandr lukashenko called on his generals to strengthen the protection

of the state border and the airspace of the republic. he once again emphasized the military threat to belarus. russia, which allegedly exists both from the side of ukraine and from the side poland and the baltic states. let's listen to what the self-proclaimed president of belarus said. today's decision to protect the state border is unique in that we have a special situation. to the south, war to the west poland, lithuania, baltic. the states are the worse, i emphasize, the worse , there are preparing the corresponding detachments of certain commanders, we know them, well, it seems to me, mr. volodymyr, that both alexander lukashenko and vladimir putin are preparing some kind of second action with the participation of belarus, will it be suvalsky this

corridor, will it be a baltic country. whether it will be the baltic countries, whether it will be poland, or again , there will be a northern border for ukraine. it is clear that there is no point in analyzing what lukashenka said, but still, who was this message addressed to , the people of belarus, or, after all, the west, which he, well, traditionally threatens with his shoes. uh, you see. mr. serhiy, i will return to the speech of the kremlin's chief propagandist lavrov, who er... said that, well, they say, the west is dumping, it's literally what he said, dumping everything to ukraine military junk, well, this junk itself is being replaced

by the latest weapons, so if this junk, as lavrov says, can be used to stop the second army of the world, then the question is, what is this army, excuse me, but... the second army of the world can attack nato countries, if today our armed forces are shelling with the junk we have, as one says about the audience of st. leningrad, and oil depots are burning there for several days in a row, then the question is who and with what they can... threaten putin and lukashenko is with him, well, except for that there as a bunny in some forest somewhere

in the north of finland and nothing more, they really have nothing to oppose to the collective action, the collective nato, and now what, by the way, the nato forces are conducting is huge, really in terms of scale and the involvement of the benev troops. er gathered more than 90,000 people, this is really the most large-scale maneuvers in recent years, if not decades, then this is only in order to clearly and clearly show to these ee figures like lukashenka, like lavov, like putin, that that phrase of biden that we will protect everyone inch of nato territory, it is not for... journalists, but it is for those whose heads have not yet cleared a little fog, but for their own consumers of information, well, it is

again the need to fight against this evil that has surrounded russia , that belarus, and therefore we must be vigilant, therefore we must hold on , therefore we must not think about any democracy , this is not a necessary thing at all, but we must as much as possible... but stand together with lukashenko, putin and other dictators, because they say that this is the only way to get your independence. so i guess that's it again after all, purely an internal political accent and nothing more. mr. volodymyr, you have already mentioned the north atlantic alliance, these maneuvers that have now begun in europe. at the same time , we see ukraine signing. agreements on security guarantees or on cooperation , they are called, doesn't this mean that until the country, ukraine, is not in nato, and

it is not known how much, how much, what path we have ahead of us, that these agreements will be in effect, and if possible, what is the status of these interstate agreements, if they are interstate, then obviously, they must undergo ratification in the verkhovna rada, and, accordingly, in the parliaments of those countries. on whose behalf prime ministers or presidents sign there, are there any conflicts regarding the status of these agreements as international, because according to our constitution, all international agreements must be ratified in the verkhovna rada, well, mr. sergey, regarding the essence of these agreements , well let's talk now about the agreement with great britain, it's really unique and i think it's a very good example of how formalize the issues of interaction , cooperation in the field of security and defense,

it is comprehensive, it covers a lot of areas that we need, and i believe that if it is implemented, it will definitely help us in the security area, and it will help quite significantly. is this a security agreement? in my opinion, no, because the security agreement provides that if one of the parties to the agreement attacks, the other defends it in the same way and defends its own territory. actually, this is what nato is based on. attack on little estonia means an attack on the great united states of america. this is what is called security guarantees for countries that do not have nuclear weapons. we gave up our nuclear weapons under pressure from the

same russians and americans. well, everything is clear with the russians, and the americans must provide us with our security, as well as the british, as well as the french, who put their signatures on the level, moreover, not of anyone, but of the presidents under the budapest memorandum, although it is not valid in practical terms, but no one canceled it, that is, it does not work, but the obligation remain, so now it is necessary... we are obliged to simply translate it into the form that will truly become a guarantee of security for us, and this is the only way, this is joining nato. everything else, this, and this is what is said in this contract itself, is temporary. it is said that when ukraine joins nato, the parties will change some of the provisions of this agreement, because, well,

there will be no need for it anymore, so these are temporary agreements until ukraine joins nato, and therefore, let's be honest and let's speak the truth with our song fellow citizens, these are not guarantees in the sense of guarantees for alliance members, these are wonderful multilateral, multi-layered, multi-e... phased agreements on assistance in the field of defense and security, it is true, and if we have such agreements with, say, most countries nato, this will definitely be a big positive for us, but i repeat once again, this will not mean that these treaties will provide that our visas will defend ukraine in the event of an attack by russia.

to-day or to-morrow, see if the treaty is signed, or if the british troops help to beat the russians on ukrainian soil, they do not help us and they will not help us, because this agreement does not provide for it, therefore , the agreement does not give these guarantees in the sense that we imagine it. mr. volodymyr, thank you for the conversation, it was volodymyr grys. politician, diplomat, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2007-9. friends, we work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. if you watch us on youtube and facebook, please like us this video, write a comment under this video, and take part in our survey. today we ask you about something like this, do you trust anti-corruption law enforcement agencies? yes, no, on youtube everything is up to...

don't just choose either yes or no, write your comment, if your comment does not match the two answer options, if you watch us on tv, please take your smartphone or phone and vote if you trust anti-corruption authorities you vote 0800 211381 not 0800 211382, all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. next , we have serhiy taran, a political scientist, mr. serhiy, i congratulate you and i am glad to see you on the air. i congratulate you, on the zai. mr. serhiy, zelenskyy said a few months or a few weeks ago, or rather, that there will be no elections in ukraine until the end of the war, there is a state of war, there is current legislation that does not allow these elections to be held, and the one who talks about the elections is the one in

principles are not with'. a good person because during the war, these topics should not be raised, but once again zelensky was asked about the elections, what he thought, by the british from the fourth news channel, and he said that in ukraine it is necessary to think about how to hold presidential elections, although the law forbids this during wartime state, after all, someone is thinking about elections, and after all, someone is trying to think about how to hold these elections. to what extent do you think there is a prospect that these elections will be held in ukraine in some form, well , it is meant, well, for example, through an action where a part of people who are abroad can to join by voting, or part of the people who left their permanent place of residence because of the war and...