stay with us and read our news on the espresso tv website, we work for you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, the most effective information is on our website, we try to update our feed so that you are interested in reading our news and our lyrics. during this program, the first part of our program, we conducted a survey, we asked you whether you trust the anti-corruption law enforcement agencies, so let's look at the results of the televoting: 6% trust, 94% do not trust. this is the level distrust of anti-corruption bodies among our tv viewers, on our youtube page 10% trust, 90% do not trust, that is, the level of distrust of anti-corruption bodies among viewers of the tv channel. dear

, we will continue to conduct the same poll during the second part of our program, which will begin after the bbc release, literally 15 minutes after the end of our first program, the people's deputies of ukraine, iryna gerashchenko, oleksiy kucherenko and yulia klymenko, will be on our air. let's talk about possible elections in ukraine, about how in favor absence elections, the government and the opposition must work together with the people, of course, for the future of ukraine, so stay with us, we will be back on the air soon, there are 15% discounts on aquamaris in travel pharmacies for you and savings. there are leftovers for 15% strength detox in

psarynskyk pam and oskad pharmacies. greetings, this is svoboda live on radio svoboda. we have already approached the snake itself. the following shots may shock you. news from the scene. live drone attacks, kamikaze. political analytics. objectively and meaningfully. there is no political season. exclusive interviews, reports from the hottest points of the front. freedom life, frankly and impartially. you draw your own conclusions. verdict with serhiy rudenko. from now on in a new two-hour format. even more analytics, even more important topics, even more top guests. foreign experts, inclusion from abroad. about ukraine, the world, the front, society. and more. feedback, you

can express your opinion on the evil of the day with a phone survey, turn on and turn on, the verdict with serhii rudenko, every weekday from 20 to 22 on espresso. channel espresso and ukrainian pen present their own name project with myroslava barchuk. a series of conversations with ukrainian and western intellectuals who analyze and comment on the most relevant social debates. what news will there be? we will find out this week's guests of the project and who will be the guest of the studio already this sunday, definitely, the topics will be relevant, guests, special, proper names with myroslava barchuk, sunday 17:10 at espresso.

greetings, friends, the verdict program is live on the tv channel, the second part will be ours.

dedicated to the elections in ukraine, and let's see our announcement, what will we talk about? without elections, the government demands the following from the termination of the election campaign: agreements, is zelenskyy ready to share power with the opposition? rage of business: the government faced opposition from entrepreneurs due to the arbitrariness of security forces, will the government listen to businessmen? the sbi is at the center of scandals, trust in the anti-corruption law enforcement agencies of ukraine is declining, how to restore it? we work live on the espresso tv channel and on our youtube platforms. and in facebook, for those who are currently watching us on social networks, please like this video and also take part in our vote, today we ask you this, do you trust the anti-corruption authorities of ukraine? yes , no, please vote on youtube with the button either yes or no, if you have a special opinion,

please write it in the comments, if you are sitting in front of the tv, you can pick up the phone and vote, if you trust the anti-corruption law'. to the authorities 0800 211 381 no 08021382 call, all calls to these numbers are free, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. i would like to introduce the guests of today's program, they are people's deputies of ukraine, yulia klymenko, the voice fraction. ms. yulia, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening. iryna gerashchenko, european solidarity faction. ms. irina, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our broadcast. thank you for inviting me, good evening. oleksiy kucherenko, batkivshchyna faction. mr. oleksiy, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. thank you for the invitation, vita. ladies and

gentlemen, let's start with a quick question, just a very short one if possible. as we ask our viewers whether they trust anti-corruption agencies, i'll ask you too. do you trust the anti-corruption authorities, mrs. yulia, i trust the anti-corruption authorities, but not the law enforcement authorities, thank you, mr. oleksiy, i don't really have reasons, i watched the development of events in certain processes, and i have well-founded claims. thank you, mrs. iryna, certainly more than bep and dbr, but it would be great i wanted the authorities not to... allow the involvement of anti-corruption bodies in politics, politics. why we ask, because sociology appeared , according to the results of social research by the democratic initiatives foundation, as of december 23, the level of trust of ukrainians in anti-corruption bodies, sap, nabu, nazk,

was at the level of 51% or 52%, well somewhere oh yeah. we're in the first program, in our first part of our program about... polls, and those who watch tv, those who vote for us on youtube, there was a ratio, tv audience 5% trust, 95 do not trust, and 10% was on youtube, and 90% i don’t trust, well, that’s the ratio, but let’s start our conversation with the elections, because volodymyr zelenskyy started talking about them again, that is , not the opposition, not... journalists, not experts, but zelensky was asked if he was thinking about holding elections in ukraine, and he gave an interview to the british tv channel, the fourth news tv channel, and what zelensky answered, let's hear, the verkhovna rada should

vote and give a mandate for elections, they should raise this issue and vote , they cannot do it because of... the prohibition of the law, they cannot violate the law, and the situation is that elections are prohibited in our wartime, and the situation, if it were even possible to do this, what to do with the occupied, temporarily occupied territories , and how to conduct legitimate elections so that they are recognized by the world, if we have six, more than almost millions. abroad and they must have infrastructure, and unfortunately we do not have an online election format, and if you ask me, i believe that we need to think about how to do it, ms. irina, how to think so that

do it? it seems to me that today the authorities really need to think more about that. how to keep the country and keep it, first of all, in terms of security, because the war is not over, and it is important that the elections, when they take place, take place on the entire territory of ukraine. on a large territory of ukraine, and don't you know that we have russia there and continue to tear up our territories, and we need to focus on this, it is obvious that for the government, which is losing today, well, ratings, objectively, it would be interested as soon as possible hold and prolong these elections his time in institutions, in chairs, in positions, etc., but in this case, president zelenskyi is right to say that... that elections during martial law cannot be held legitimately, they will not be recognized

by society or the world, not only because of the impossibility to fully exercise their right to vote, refugees abroad , internally displaced persons who also live in such often dangerous areas in kharkiv oblast, kherson oblast, the impossibility of taking military officers in the elections, because they are fighting today, and at this time in the country there is a large ... the request that the military be represented in power, that they enter both the new parliament and the new government, and who knows what positions the military will hold, and the actual election process should ensure this right, both active and passive, for all layers of society , and this is impossible during the war, at the same time, indeed, the parliamentary powers of de jure ended in november last year, and... it is obvious that the president and his team are discussing how the world and society will perceive may this year and

so on , and it seems to me that in this the answer that the government is obviously looking for, how to strengthen the legitimacy of the government, there is one recipe, it is a government of national salvation, it is a reformation of the parliamentary majority, which should create a new government of technocrats, and this government should be professional, be in dialogue with... by letters, with business, to give, well , very, you know, correct answers to these challenges facing ukraine today, otherwise, today we really have very huge risks of a decrease in support for all government institutions, because, well, society is obviously entering such a period depression, a difficult war continues, all this is very difficult, and at this time to watch the nightmare of business and what... is happening to journalists and the absolute inability of the authorities to respond to economic challenges and

the like, society is not ready, and that is why our position of our political power, in order to strengthen the legitimacy of the government in the conditions of martial law, must through the reformatting of the majority in the parliament and the creation of a government of national salvation, and this is not about chairs, there is absolutely nothing to divide, it is about responsibility and professionalism. thank you, ms. irina, mr. oleksiy. government without elections, because martial law does not allow elections to be held, and martial law in the country can last a year or two, it can last five years, or it can last 10 years , nobody knows exactly how long martial law can last . in such conditions, is it possible to talk about the conclusion of some kind of conceptual agreement between the monomajority and... political forces, in particular those represented in the verkhovna rada, some specific

agreement, agreement on how the government acts in these conditions, i remind you that in the 95th year, when the constitutional process in ukraine was quite difficult, a constitutional treaty was signed, which in principle resolved many issues until the new constitution was adopted by the verkhovna rada of ukraine. and in this way, kuchma , together with the representatives of the parliament, managed to relieve the tension that existed. is it possible to calculate, or is it possible to talk about such a conceptual agreement? thank you, but i will remind you that at the time viktor andriyovych yushchenko was very fond of this business of station wagons. he constantly offered critical moments to arrange station wagons, it even seems there. invested, yes, but practice has shown that with regionals, well, what can be a universal, therefore, to

be honest, i don’t really trust in this situation, the more so i can’t agree with ms. irina, completely, or rather, i can’t completely agree , in part i can say that the creation of a government, as i do not know how to call it correctly, of national trust, or some other technocratic one, that it will replace the de... legitimization of the same president, well , first of all, i will remind ms. iryna about this said that the legitimacy of the deputies is also in question, yes, well, relatively speaking, four years have passed, if not... not now, then after a certain time, but the same goes for you and my colleagues, dear deputies, probably, well, the same the claims themselves, well, not that claims, but there may be certain doubts and so on, so the situation really looks like a dead end, the only thing i would like is that we do not confuse different things, because maybe i am assuming, i do not consider myself

deep there a specialist is a specialist in the constitutional law of the process and... others, but maybe, maybe by certain changes to certain laws , to make appropriate changes so that during the martial law the country is categorically not left without a president, no matter what we want, whatever relationship we have with him, but according to our constitution, the cabinet under this future possible coalition , he cannot completely transfer all the powers of the president... special changes to the constitution, to the laws, to himself, i have no doubts that this government absolutely does not meet the challenges of today, it is not professional, it is not adequate in the situation, we, i am about it and ours the faction has been talking for a long time, and in any way it is absolutely necessary to

try to bring down this technocratic government, and the last thing is the question of legitimacy. to give both the president and the verkhovna rada, both in the internal aspect and in the external aspect, you understand, because today this factor is external for us, it is a matter of survival, you understand that the issue of supporting a specific resource, financial, armed, is a matter of survival of ukraine today. from the domestic point of view, i think ukrainian the people will somehow perceive this illegitimacy as temporary, i don't think there will be any outrage, especially since certain ratings of zelenskyi, i don't completely distrust them, but nevertheless, they show that he has a certain amount of trust, significant, let's put it this way, this is an obvious fact, and here is the question of the external legitimacy of our president, who today, by the way, pay attention, he finally concentrated on his main duties, he does not really get into government issues now, he deals with the external vector,

he constantly communicates now, well, that's it not bad, you understand, but... he may really lack legitimacy after the end of his term, this will be a problem for ukraine as well, so i will be honest, i would expect a proposal from the president, how and what should be done in this situation, including changes to laws, and not, well, excuse me, it's naive to somehow say, well, there are deputies, let them be determined there, well, that's absolutely not the case, it's counterproductive and ineffective in this situation, we're waiting for... the president and his innovations and initiatives. thank you, mr. oleksiy, ms. julia, obviously, legitimacy and the president and the verkhovna rada will be until the next president of ukraine is elected and until the next verkhovna rada is elected. well, at least in 2005, kuchma

was the president of ukraine until 2005, although his term of office, if i'm not mistaken, ended at the end of october 2004, but how long was the third round of presidential elections, in november, in november, in november , in november, but but, but he remained in office until the arrival of the next president of ukraine, and the verkhovna rada also remains legitimate as long as the successors they will not come and take over the powers, but here we are not even talking about the legitimacy of the verkhovna rada and... the president, but about changeability and democracy in ukraine, or whether it is even necessary to talk about what, well, people have exercise your right to choose during the war, and again, if this war will last not one year , not two or three, but more, in your opinion, is zelenskyy ready to share power with

the opposition, because in principle, monopolies and the power that is at the top'. there are councils for citizens the government they elect, well , let's say that elections are always the result of a political process, in ukraine, well, it's like the end of the political process, it's an election, at the moment there is no political process in ukraine, and in principle it cannot be, i.e. new parties, old candidates cannot exercise their right, they do not hold a meeting. with the voters, de facto, they cannot conduct political activity, they do not have access to the media for the most part, they cannot deliver their party programs as they wish. sees ukraine in development and during the war , that is, there is no political process as such in ukraine , therefore, accordingly, holding elections without a political process is a very dubious matter, and

the legitimacy of this process, honestly, it will cause, i think, even more questions than such the frozen situation that exists at the moment, i'm not talking about the technical details, for example, observers in the trenches and observers on... be including represented by international organizations, international observers, i want to see which of the international observers will go to avtiivka or kupyansk in order to see if our military and local residents vote correctly there, i think there are no such people who want to go, at most they do not get to kyiv, at least to uzhgorod, well , that is, this whole process raises more questions , than the answers, but democracy can be ensured even without... rather, it cannot be ensured without elections, but during martial law, a full-scale war in our country, it is probably possible to take democratic steps that will remove all

issues of legitimization, because in reality the legislation clearly defines what happens to the parliament during wartime, but the legislation does not define what happens to the president, i.e. whether presidential elections should be held or not, therefore. well, if it were to shift all responsibility to the parliament, as i support mr. kucharenko, it is unfair, so let's put it this way, i would say that it is necessary to start with democratic processes that can be done during war, namely, to allow journalists, for example, the verkhovna rada , open tv channels there and stop doing it. marathon, which is totally ineffective, to take any other steps that are democratic, both within the society and in the international arena, if

only to start with this, and in fact, i think that if citizens and international partners will see what is happening here, and, for example , there, i don’t know, opposition deputies will not be slowed down at customs and not let across the border, then maybe... it will start to improve the situation with the perception of democracy in ukraine, so there are many steps that can be taken without such a change in the constitution, and , because for whether to hold elections or not , you have to change the constitution, and it's a very difficult job, and in fact it's like, you know, a pandora's box that you can open and you can get something completely different as a result, to change the constitution during a war, well, it's probably wrong and no therefore, the actual question is that if the authorities had a desire, then i think that it is possible to find an understanding with the opposition, it is possible to find

common causes that will benefit ukrainians, because the only goal of all of us, both the authorities and the opposition, is victory, so for that in order for us to win, we all need to take democratic steps and joint efforts to victory, and then... and already hold elections, and in fact, this should be our main goal, if the government really wants there to be, i don't know, knowledge someone, including the opposition, helped this victory, she does not need anything, except to listen to the opinion of the opposition, to take it into account. unfortunately, the current situation is such that the ruling party does not really need any votes. the opposition, nor listen to the opposition, because they overlap, they de facto made a coalition with the opz, well, that is, with the former

regionals and their votes, they actually pull out almost all bills that raise doubts in the opposition and which the opposition criticizes or tries to improve, so here the question is only in political will and in the political process, i would say so. thank you, i will tell our viewers that... what president zelensky said about the elections, about the possibility of holding elections, not our guests and the host today, so we are talking about that we are talking because i see that comments are written on social networks about which you are talking about the election, in principle we are talking about what president zelenskyi is talking about, but president zelenskyi is also talking about business, since the issue is quite relevant now in ukraine, what is happening with businessmen, volodymyr zelensky instructed to deal with the problems that have arisen recently between government officials, businesses and law enforcement officers and to present the relevant developments to

the national security and defense council, listen. what did zelensky say? the discussion is not easy, it is serious questions, there are real difficulties. i got acquainted with the details, asked to make the necessary preparations so that all difficulties between government officials, businesses, and law enforcement officers were removed. everyone can have their own view, yes, but in times of war, we must all be united by one task: the strength of ukraine, the strength of our society, our. economy, ms. iryna, what problems is zelensky talking about, why should the national security and defense council consider the issue of the relationship between business, government and law enforcement? i think that everyone it is obvious that the time of words has passed, this is such a fascination with beautiful words, it has come, and it is very important that they realize this in banking and

stop there. to produce these endless conflicts with everyone, then they quarreled only with poroshenko over european solidarity, then they started quarreling with our western partners, then they quarreled with journalists, now their business is not like that, then ukrainians will not be like that, refugees will not be like that, well, you understand, well, this is not normal, in fact , zelenskyi started to communicate correctly after that the beginning of the war, regarding the fact that, well, at least... in words, yes, that only unity will save us, but unity is not words, but actions, and today we see that unity does not exist and vice versa, every day there are new and new conflicts , and already the business, which is very difficult to survive today, at the same time keep jobs, pay taxes, i want to remind for your intelligent viewers, who speak absolutely correctly, which elections can be talked about today, and which ones, we need to survive today as a state

and to preserve statehood, and this is for... politicians, statesmen, and it helps to preserve statehood, primarily the armed forces of ukraine work on this, but according to the situation, we can receive the armed forces of ukraine only from our internal taxes. our partners provide weapons, but they cannot pay the salaries of the soldiers. businesses do this, every ukrainian who pays taxes does this. that's what you need to focus on. and my colleague ms. yuliya klymenko pointed out absolutely correctly. that the president tries to avoid all unpleasant topics, but there is one, well an unpleasant topic, a difficult topic, what will be in may regarding legitimacy, let us translate it to the parliament, there is a difficult topic, and we have repeatedly discussed it on your broadcast, mr. serhiy, mobilization, and it is also wild, when the supreme commander, he is not finds time to meet with the leaders of the parliamentary factions and

talk about how he sees it as the head of... the stake of the supreme, the supreme commander-in-chief, how he sees the solution of this issue systematically, systematically , and what will be the support for this economic mobilization, and you know, i have very much so all the time a sense of déjà vu, a return in the atmosphere to the times of yanukovych, when there was also a very serious concentration of power in one party, in one hand, then it was a party of regions, and there was some kind of redistribution of business ; this business... was selected , all were bad, only kurchenko and arbuzov were good, and there is no doubt that we now have a young oligarchy, which has already formed an ichpool in the banking industry, somewhere among the servants of the people, that is they all do this instead of doing the opposite to help businesses survive, survive and develop the economy so that we can

survive as a state. and in this context , on the contrary, it seems to me that the key task of zelensky, as the supreme commander, who really should not interfere in the economy and government issues, should still be one economic priority, this is the military industry. what is happening with our military industry today, how did it happen that in two years we could not rebuild our economy, what russia has done now, which, unfortunately, unfortunately, it has a certain progress, both in slaves and in drones. and in other stories there, and we also need to work on it, and that's why, to be honest, i listened, you know, if you gave a quote to the president after the elections, well, he tries to transfer everything to the parliament, but there the logic is absolute, yes, that elections cannot be held during a war, then here is the second quote about business, well, first of all, no one will dream of any business without the approval of the president's office, well, excuse me, please, this...