as well as distinguished guests of the studio: the events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for smart and caring people, espresso in the evening. information day of the tv channel in rospol, well , oksana yurenets, people's deputy of ukraine of the eighth convocation, ex-head of the ukrainian delegation in the nato parliamentary assembly, professor of the lviv polytechnic national university, is a guest in our studio. glory to ukraine, ms. oksana, we congratulate you, i congratulate you, well, what happened was extraordinary. possible visit of the prime minister of the republic of poland, donald at the same time, tuska's visit to kyiv took place, perhaps less important, but also a symbolic meeting, in particular, the meeting between denys shmyhal, the prime minister of ukraine and robert fico, the prime minister of slovakia. i don't compare fitseo with donald tusk, who demonstrated that he really wants to help ukraine, fitsarocha, you know, with such a negative, slightly negative symbol. well, in

any case, something is happening, so let's start with donald tusk, what kind of overloading or restarting of relations between ukraine and poland, a very important visit, a very necessary visit, because the level of communication is governmental, it is key from the point of view of the problems that have now arisen between the two countries, and we must say frankly that very often we had just such stops in communication, if even working parliamentary diplomacy, which is not working now, then... at least this government format , it can give a lot of what is needed today to balance the situation on the border, with our transportation, with strategic planning of using poland as a logistical connecting party with from the point of view of supplying our agricultural products, and we have a very difficult situation from the point of view that with poland it is a partner that is not just a bilateral bilateral partner , but it is... a strategic partner

from the point of view of negotiations with the united states, with the european union, and here the building of adequate connections will play a very key role. in addition, we know that prime minister tusk, having his previous history in the european union, is not just a prime minister who came to ukraine, but something more, and for us it is a chance and an opportunity, perhaps even to convey what we would like in the european union to hear firsthand. that's our lawyer , i don't like this word, i say, we need to live in a neighborly way as neighbors, so as not to turn from lawyers into prosecutors, but this is really an advocacy that would help us in the parliament of the eighth convocation, we remember all these very positive initiatives for ukraine, and besides, understanding the situation, it is very important that there is an institutional memory, and probably, recalling the conditionally new prime minister of slovakia, which you mentioned, with very inadequate rhetoric in your statements. then we understand that

there is a completely different thing here, with understanding, the institutional memory of donald tusk and the issues and strategic partnership for both countries, from the point of view that today there is a full-scale war, which ukraine is restraining on its side, and this is a signal for poland that we need to act together, strategically and build our future, especially two powerful young nations in the european union , together it is almost... 100 million, which must learn to plan strategically and live with a longer perspective than the next six months or a few months or some such reactions that can be built or negotiated in the european union at the expense of the conditional polish-ukrainian border there, so all this must disappear, normal business, 200 years or 100 years ago, the same grain went through gdynia, gdansk, these ports, by completely different means, so today in... in

modern conditions, this cooperation and the swinuusche lng terminal, which has been built for a long time, are very important for us, i.e. it is also energy direction, and trade, and logistics, and a lot of other things that we can name today and because of the humanitarian crisis and the large flow of refugees from ukraine due to the war to poland, there are a lot of such, let's say , moments that should be considered, therefore, if you follow what happened in kyiv when tusk arrived, it is... many meetings with, including with the prime minister of ukraine, with the president of ukraine, that is, you have to understand that these various branches are very important today for building general cooperation strategy, the interaction of ukraine and poland from the point of view of cooperation with the european union and the united states, as for fico, and slovakia, it is just as important for us, including the border , yes, and there were also different nuances, look, we have no friends and partners, we have very often. then the allies

that we should use, well, let's be cynical at some point, so what should now be useful for our national interests, from the point of view of the circumstances and the situation that... have developed, that is, ukraine should look for opportunities, not be offended , but just act very pragmatically and in one's own interests , therefore, situationally, fico should use this time in order to build mutually beneficial plans that will be strategically beneficial to both countries from the point of view of economy and logistics . let there be another proxy... after hungary, slovakia became, because the previous communication, which was at the level of the president with the president, was with chepotova, it was very effective and adequate, and also a large number of ukrainian refugees are now in slovakia, so a balanced politician with an understanding of what

ukraine wants with clear positions, did not go to kyiv, fitso chose uzhgorod, yes, our prime minister went there, that is, he is alone. such a rather symbolic moment, well, robert fitso also awarded a lot of different such interesting, strange things, yes, that is, he said that there is no war in kyiv and so on and so forth, but this is so to speak his fantasy before that, he said that we still have to cede territories, so these are inadequate speeches that we listened to in addition, it is, well, how can you say, it is not the leader who speaks, but it is very often us, how will we understand the puppet statements that are trying to make... several leaders, well, we understand, then they are told to go somewhere when important decision in the european union, so here i would really like to have a long term, being in office, having many protests against him in his country, as you can see, he knows how to organize society, the prime minister

of slovakia against himself and against his policies, therefore i think that it is very necessary to worry about why, because in fact the permanent state of elections forces many poli'. and this politician, who also came to power on slogans, must understand that such actions and statements will be followed by responsibility, and whether it will benefit the country and whether it will, well, i don't want to believe that these are again methods from the northern side , that is, but we want to understand that we can situationally build a pragmatic story that would benefit the two countries, and from our side, perhaps rewriting the page. to give tasks, and how we do it from our side, we should always have our own action plan on the agenda, when ukraine will not run after, but will offer and lead, it will be much easier, so there is nothing wrong with coming to uzhhorod, in principle, the prime minister the minister could go to kyiv,

see what is happening in kyiv, especially yesterday's shelling, because you can actually be a big cynic and not see something, you know, but sometimes you have to look up, and you can see there. much more than just in the manual, but the main thing is that we we see that viktor orbán's euro-atlantic community has survived, yes, in particular, when it concerns the issue of sweden's accession to nato, well , let's hope that fico will also be pressed, look, very experienced politicians in the european union show that they can be effective and can to be very convincing, and the fact that the 18th ramstein meeting took place yesterday showed... even in online mode, that, as austin said, ukraine is not alone today, and in the context of this, he listed a number of events that were announced previously other countries, and together with the december announcement of the united states, what and how will be offered to ukraine, it is very important for ukraine to hear that it is not alone today, because very often we would

give money in the proper amount, very often we feel this loneliness, because we have to volunteers, each on his own side, with his own funds, there we are the ukrainian team, some others. funds, volunteer staffs to help the army, in fact we need a very systematic big help, because there are these things that today the world does not even produce, yes, in such a number that it is needed, but in order to restrain this enemy onslaught from the russian federation, ukraine must fight back, and this is our responsibility, which we must emphasize to every leader, including fitza, and speaking from the prem by prime minister tusk, that ukraine needs support and solidarity in keeping the line of defense, i think poland, as no one understands. what is solidarity and it is when we bear the burden of our neighbor, a partner from the side, when we have to calculate our strengths together, i.e. ukraine itself clearly cannot resist what has now piled up, but what politicians, german, italian,

french, are already beginning to look at, that is, their support and strength are now very necessary for us. thank you, but now we will take a short break and return to ours in a few minutes. studio, so stay with espresso, we'll be back in a few minutes. everyday life is full of stress now. and anxiety, melamamah b6 will help to cope with these challenges. melatonin, magnesium and vitamin b6 contribute to a full rest and b6 vitamins give recovery, full sleep and recovery from bhfz. there are 15% discounts on tos may in pharmacies, plantain bam and oshkad. woman, what to do when the liver wakes up? alohol should be taken. and for bile what? he's cool. protect the liver and gallbladder. natural components of alochol contribute to the normalization of liver and gall bladder. alohol with

care and respect for the liver and gallbladder. laughter, physical activity, sneezing. even during such a small load, urinary incontinence can make itself felt. feminost uuro helped me. thanks to the natural components of feminost uro, it helps to restore control over urination both during the day and at night. uuro femininity. urination under control. ask at pharmacies. there are discounts on... 10% in the psyllany bam and oskad pharmacies. oh, and got wet. would you like some tea? mom, dad, what should i do to avoid getting sick? vitamin c, d3, zinc and, most importantly, quercitin to strengthen blood vessels. just take quertin immuno. all in one package. in one capsule, four components together. so simple, one capsule a day. so easy. quertin immuno. see this week in the program judicial control with tatyana shustrova. the luxurious life of the ex-deputy

chairman of the dnipro district court of kherson. what happened is an exclusively positive moment. there are mass exonerations of evaders in the court in odesa. we actually found that four judges made all these decisions. on thursday, january 25 at 5:45 p.m., watch the judicial control program with tatiana shustrova on the espresso tv channel. verdict by isergy rudenko, from now on in a new two-hour format. even more analytics, even more important topics, even more top guests, foreign experts, inclusion from abroad , about ukraine, the world, the front, society, and also feedback, you can express your opinion on the bad day with the help of a telephone survey, switch on and switch on, verdict with serhii rudenko, every weekday from 20:00 to 22:00 at espresso.

"if you have vil, you cannot give birth, with modern medicine you can, if you have vil you will die, you will not be able to raise a child, with modern medicine you can and will see her children, if you have vil, you cannot..." you will be able to love with with modern medicines, you can, if you have an ox, with modern medicines, you can love, love, live and give life. get checked, protect yourself, get treated. knowledge of complex things is important, knowledge of oxen saves lives.

the tv channel's information day continues, oksana yurynets, people 's deputy of ukraine of the eighth convocation, ex-head of the ukrainian delegation in the nato parliamentary assembly, professor of the national university of lviv polytechnic, is in the studio, and we are now adding to our marathon rostislav pavlenko, the people's deputy of ukraine. glory to ukraine, mr. rostyslav, congratulations to you too, glory to the heroes, congratulations to the studio, oksana, glad to see, congratulations, well , what, a big case of unification of universities, yes, they are planning to reduce their number by a third, well, where they are trying to merge or combine, quite natural questions arise, and in some places even , so to speak, insults and claims, mr. rostyslav, is this process somehow... controlled by the verkhovna rada of ukraine, or is it, so to speak, direct communication between

ministries and universities, well, we have our own time we remember that in our country they talked a lot about the autonomy of higher educational institutions for a long time and with inspiration, here, so to speak , they said to unite, well then unite, you know, that's the thing that we have very unfortunately, the role of the parliament in our company is generally reduced to such a statistical role, so... that's why we can only comment here, and when the governments of the year some legislative proposals come to the committee on education, science and innovation, in general to the verkhovna rada , then... then react to similar actions, well, essentially it seems to me that , unfortunately, it smells of componentism here, and the impression is that someone decided something was successful and decided to tell the universities what they should do, how they should unite, and fitting some statistical data to this, talking about

demographics and so on, well, but in a way that is very difficult for me to achieve. any positive result, except actually, how to inflate the whole sphere and give birth, in addition to all existing problems, and also the problem of misunderstanding and rejection from the point of view of scientific and actually teaching community from the point of view of students, therefore, in my opinion, all these issues should be left to a natural process, the state can regulate how it will be'. what is now still called a state order, how the so-called educational trajectory is actually regulated, by the way, there are relevant draft laws on this, and it seems to me that in this way, simply by creating certain incentives, it would be possible to call for something or to direct somewhere, but definitely not by command methods, definitely not by any directive methods

orders, and definitely not repeating this famous unfunny. but, unfortunately, the life of venedot pro-paraschyka about a trip to unite universities4, ms. oksana, i have a question for you, but we understand that there are still some certain changes in terms of the fact that the war made adjustments, we understand that many ukrainian children for two years in a row, they have been hesitating whether to enroll in a ukrainian university or abroad, but we understand that, for example, the lviv polytechnic, where you work, is one of the largest in ukraine, in fact, higher educational institutions, where always there were many willing to learn. and actually, in your opinion, what is the argument, which , as they say, where is the dog buried, how does the ministry of defense justify its decision on the so-called accession, oh, please forgive the ministry of defense, the ministry of defense is talking about the accession or unification of universities, because to us , for example, the students of tavria university, the rector of tavria university, who, by the way, is one of the few who

came to kyiv after the annexation of crimea, and they are actually there and many crimean tatars study there and also to we turned on repeatedly. a teacher at kharkiv pedagogical university named after skovoroda, well, we understand that there is a certain misunderstanding among the teaching staff , including why the government and why the relevant ministry decides to join, unite, and argues for it by the fact that, well, it seems that there is not a sufficient number of applicants, and then we hear other statements that it seems like we need to optimize funds, well, how do you understand that, if you are talking about the lviv polytechnic, then i will tell you from the moment when i entered the lviv polytechnic and already there working, i.e. this... my place of work, study, postgraduate studies, then it was somewhere plus or minus 600 for my faculty of economics, and today the institute of economics and management this year, last year 1200 young people from ukraine entered, that is, if talking about the lviv polytechnic, this is probably not such a completely successful example, because the example is more likely those displaced universities, or for example today kharkiv universities, karazin, 1,700 students,

that is, it is necessary to understand that in general the reconstruction of the state once after the victory. will be for sure to start with universities, with such large educational structures, with scientific schools, that is , they will be the educational centers of the country's reconstruction, and therefore now say that it is possible to unite some university, well, look, i will tell you the first example, which will be negative, you can submit documents somewhere, where you say, and this university no longer exists, it has merged, and try to prove with the number of resolutions there or some other prepared decisions of the cabinet of ministers that it was merged, that is, this is the first... the first danger, the second danger , which is not always, as they say, two minuses can give pros, and we understand, there are a lot of discussions in such an educational environment, regarding these associations. in fact, i would very much like the community, you correctly noted about the self-governance of universities, which needs normal communication, and scientists are people who are used to being very pragmatic with tasks,

goals, objectives, strategy, to understand how it will all happen. there is no suggested strategy for this one to follow. plan, you can't just voice ideas, not understanding the perspective of the next 5-10 years, it's difficult now to predict, i believe that all the teachers who remained and are standing here in ukraine, in universities, are people who heroically perform their work, it is very important, because when we were always told, oh, what young people are there, now these young people are protecting ukraine , unfortunately, even gives his life without trying to apply them as specialists with diplomas in ukraine, and therefore it is necessary to pay a lot of attention to it, i have... tomorrow the foreign economic activity management exam, where the fifth will come course, and these are students who graduated and franko, and uku, and other higher education institutions in ukraine, who entered the lviv polytechnic for a master's degree. that's a lot. such youth, which can be grown, not only in lviv universities, but in the whole of ukraine in general. it is necessary to understand that communication with managers was built, and this is not

just like that, that is, universities had their own system of training personnel from departments, institutes, then universities, the bologna system was implemented. i agree with rostislav that it is very important to communicate with the people with whom this reform is intended wants to be proposed, and it is very important that those people who... kept this higher school in ukraine, who created these universities, were heard in those communications, because a lot rests on their shoulders even now. volunteer staffs, because they help students, and those who went to the army , there are a lot of them, and the universities are proud of them, the system now has two years to make reforms at a time of such uncertainty and martial law, well, i don’t think that this is the right thing to do, why, because we have to understand that logic in associations, accessions whether takeovers should be clear from the point of view of calculation, in fact , there are a lot of people entering lviv universities, and here, on the contrary, there is an increase in the number of people

actually entering studies. thank you, ms. oksano, rostislav pavlenko, people's deputy of ukraine, we would like to ask you, mr. rostislav, about another extremely important aspect, which is called the introduction of so-called supervisory boards in universities, which will have a direct impact on the election of rectors, but here.. .there is an interesting extremely legal case, i.e the supervisory councils that should influence the election of rectors, yes, they will be formed by the ministry of education and science of ukraine. what about that case? well, you know, this information is known, these plans are known , they are very surprising, as you said, and ms. oksana very rightly noted that if we talk about the autonomy... about the freedom of universities, then it is completely unrealistic and hopeless to talk about the formation these supervisory councils

are actually made up of officials, to bring the higher authorities under state control again and to indicate who will lead these higher authorities is something goes against the policy that has been carried out, well, at least since the 14th year, the policy of europe itself. policy aimed at joining our education system to the european transatlantic community and those standards to which our higher education has already managed to get used to, that there are democratic foundations, on the other hand , mechanisms are already being formed to limit such a gerantocracy, which sometimes exists when the same persons have been sitting there for years and decades, that is, only a certain healthy balance is being worked out, here we hear initiatives about the fact that... again the state will indicate, will appoint officials again, and these officials will determine how to live as a university, this seems absolutely unacceptable, and here

i just want to recall an example, you know, there was a decentralization reform, and we remember , as in previous years, there since the beginning of the 2000s, they tried to impose it administratively, to connect someone there, to separate someone, to tell the communities how to live from above, and all of this simply failed miserably. there, even the initiators were expelled there, in my opinion, from the meetings of their native village, and when in the 14th year they approached, giving the opportunity to unite on the basis of increasing resources, on the basis of common interest, so far the reform of decentralization is considered one of the most successful, but according to this analogy, how should i act in the issue of education reform, and not take some absolutely incomprehensible practices, administrative, deprivation, and for what purpose can something like this be implemented like this? mr. rostoslav, in simple language to guide our tv viewers, who do not all think as deeply as you, well, the question taking control, the issue of the fact that in our

higher education, by definition, people are free-thinking, our students, the roshi force, not one maidan, and teachers exert a rather large influence on public opinion and simply drive everyone under control. the officials probably do not let anyone rest in peace or this laurel of the unkind memory of mr. tabachnyk, but we just need to remember what such gentlemen end up with in ukraine and simply abandon such plans, what do you think, for what purpose is all this done in general, or share the opinion of a colleague regarding the fact that the teaching staff has a certain influence, including the youth who are clearly very free-thinking now, i agree with rostislav that... in fact, it is shaping the formed scientific schools, even those who themselves formed contacts there conditionally with the british school, in economics, or, for example, like our universities, or there with

polish universities, now... the work of double diplomas is going very effectively, and it seems to me that for many it is such a resource, and, because it is conventionally 40 00, 28 thousand students, these are thousands of young people who well, let's put it this way, they understand what they want in their lives, and very often, if you look at who creates teams, who makes successful enterprises, you will see there lists of graduates of these or other universities, and it is very important that these are actually such centers . free-thinking, where sometimes there is a lot of things that catch fire very quickly, you will remember, the maidan was rightly mentioned here, who were the first to come out, young people who at first did not have any hope came out, and then understood that it would all change, all the teachers who understood that they were with them, they went out together with the youth, and that's why now there are many moments, i count encroachments, fakes that are created around higher education institutions, of course, that these are huge structures, there are thousands of

collectives, but to impose. something will not happen from above, because the country is completely different, that is, we have a democracy, which, after all, was formed precisely through higher educational institutions, through those communities that were created, fraternities, organizations, associations that they asked a lot of those changes for the country, the supervisory board, for what purpose, look, if the purpose is conditionally in order to... leave some right, for example, when there are older teachers there are conditional teachers, we have professors who at 80-90 years old can still have the highest citation index there and so on, that is, these are people who are able to work, there are those who can leave much earlier , for example, for retirement , if it is done by a council of such people, let's say the elders of this university, i understand it, but when it is obsessively simple, as you say correctly there officials or someone from the side who has no relation to this university, there is no no

a graduate, not some kind of fan. or sympathizer, then it is very strange and unclear why this is being done, because in fact, when universities were made self-governing, it took a long time to see that the student council, separately, separate institutes, separate departments, these are separate environments, separate, forgive me families with their own opinions, who internally had to seek consensus, and this was developed over years, an understanding of cooperation and interaction, and we could not influence a lot of things, that is, it was democracy, you had your own opinion, and that means you had your say. for example, your right, or you had to defend one's point of view, and it was a normal democratic process of discussing this or that problem and defending it, but we have a lot of things turned upside down, you know, now upside down, due to various circumstances and the covid period, and now martial law, which it seems to me that he wants to take advantage of that chance, and there are some such tendencies that are very unhealthy from the point of view of appropriation, admiration, that is, well... those

moments that are not fully, i think, will be useful, especially at this time, without having a general comprehension strategies perspectives of the next five years, just tossing around ideas, trying to take some individual steps, it can be very wrong, negative from the point of view of general higher education in ukraine, well, i just have a conclusion from our conversation, that's not to break something, and before changing something, we need to think carefully about whether we can keep it, thank you, thank you oksana yurynets, mp of ukraine of the eighth convocation, ex-head of the ukrainian delegation of upnato and professor of the lviv polytechnic, and rostyslav was also in touch with us pavlenko, people's deputy of ukraine, together with them tried to reach a conclusion and understand for themselves and for you, our tv viewers, what is happening with the reform of higher educational institutions in ukraine, but for today this is our last conversation, so we pass the baton to our colleagues and we will see you tomorrow in this studio,

traditionally for... worked antin burkovskyi marto liyarnyk, thank you, dear tv viewers, watch the news now. greetings to everyone from espress, i'm nalnyk and i'll start this issue with the following: they are dismantling in kyiv the building of the lokomotiv stadium that the russians damaged with their rockets? oleksandr egorov, the director of the football club, told about it. he added that the foundation and walls were critically damaged. the works will last from two to three weeks. let me remind you that on january 23 , the russians launched a combined attack on...