frost, during the day +1, +4. natalie didenko, thank you for the weather forecast, thank you for your attention, the great ether on espresso will continue, i will pass the word to my colleagues, see you soon! good evening, we are from ukraine! glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next two hours, we will talk about ukraine, the world, the war, and our victory. today in the program. the fall of il-76 in bielgorod. the russians insist that there were ukrainian prisoners on board. fatal error or

russian provocation. shmygal agreed with fizo. meeting of prime ministers in border uzhhorod. slovakia will not block 50 billion euros for ukraine from the eu. it's about uninvited guests. the police are investigating the attack on journalist nikolov's apartment. meanwhile , new facts of corruption are exposed in the ministry of defense. we will talk about this and other things during the next hour with our guests, the general of the service. of security of ukraine viktor yagun, journalist yuriy nikolov and people's deputy of ukraine mykola knyazhytskyi. in the second part of our program, which will start in an hour, we will have political experts oleg sahakyan, volodymyr tsibulko and oleksiy koshel. however, before starting our big conversation, i suggest you watch a video of a spectacular attack by the armed forces of ukraine on enemy positions, the fighters of the 63rd 63rd separate mechanized brigade will work hard. after the occupiers,

four tanks immediately launched a counterattack and covered the russian positions near yampelivka in donetsk region with fire. let's see.

friends, for those who are currently watching us live on youtube and facebook, please put like this video, subscribe to our pages on social networks, and also vote in our poll, today we ask you: do you trust the anonymous telegram channel, yes, no, please vote on youtube, or write your opinion, about what you think about anonymous telegram channels and do you consider the information that they... spread, if you watch us on tv, please pick up your phone and vote by numbers if you trust anonymous telegram channels 0800 211 381, no 0800 211 382, all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. we have the first guest on the call, this is major general of the security service of ukraine zapasu, deputy head of the sbu in 2014-15, viktor

yagun. mr. general, i congratulate you and thank you for being with us today. good evening. mr. general, today the russian federation is actively, torpedoing, information torpedoing the downing of the il-76 plane in belgorod. sources in ukrainian intelligence report that he was transporting missiles for an anti-aircraft missile system of the s-300 complex. the russians are talking about the fact that there were supposedly dozens of ukrainian prisoners of war on the plane, who were being taken to bilharad for an exchange in gur. the ministry of defense of ukraine confirmed that a prisoner exchange between russia and ukraine was supposed to take place today, but it is not happening at the moment. , since the plane crash in the belgorod region, a lot of time has passed, according to the way these events are developing and how russia...

is commenting on all this, trying to shift all the blame for what happened in the skies of the belgorod region, and hinting that, that we killed our own prisoners of war who flew. from russia, is there a technical possibility to find out whether ukrainian prisoners of war were still on board this plane or not? at the moment, there are no technical possibilities, there is a possibility only through our existing operational resources and through international organizations that would have, in particular the red cross, and united nations organizations that should pay attention. on how the transportation and safety of prisoners of war in the combat zone is ensured. russia is already beginning to demand an urgent meeting of the un security council due to the downing of a military plane in the belgorod region. serhiy

lavrov, who is at the un assembly , says that he hopes that the french presidency. in the security service will ensure that such a meeting is held today at 22:00 kyiv time, of course, in this situation, russia will appeal there to whether it is necessary to give weapons to ukraine again, as they did during the conclusions regarding the shelling of the bazaar in donetsk region in donetsk, literally last weekend, because they had already called a meeting of the soviets bezone and tried. to tell and shift all the blame to the ukrainian side, we know that russia usually lies in such situations, and in such cases, when they openly lied from high stands both about the massacre and the downing of flight mh-17 over donetsk in 2014 , regarding

mariupol, many, in which way, in your opinion, ukraine should assert its right and prove to the whole world. that russia is the aggressor, and in this situation it is absolutely responsible for everything that happens both in ukraine, during shelling, and on the territory of russia federation? well, actually, first of all, you need to pull yourself together, calm down and calmly deal with the situation. the situation is very simple: the plane that allegedly transported her was ours. prisoners did not fly to belgrade, but flew from belgorod, this time, and for the second time, this plane, literally yesterday, was still in the very far southern regions, in particular in the syrian region, in

syria, from syria it flew through there, well, in a detour there through egypt there through other countries, bypassing those countries where russian military aircraft cannot fly. and brought something to the same belgrade that he brought it is not clear if he brought our conscripts from syria and egypt, the question is what did he do there then, what did our conscripts do. the second question, which was asked by one of our former prisoners of war, who were the three accompanying persons, if they were, well, that russian prisoners of war were transported like this... this is an indisputable fact, he confirmed it himself, he himself was transported, he was exchanged on january 3, or before, no, no, he had been hanged before, but the fact remains , they are transferring prisoners, well, are moved by planes, but in the plane, the plane

, for each, there, i don’t know, well, a certain number of people, for 50 people, there were 20 guards, that is, for 63 people, or 65 for... prisoners of war, well, there can’t be three three accompanying facts, and such facts that cause such, well, doubts about the veracity of this information, there are many, starting from the fact that the deputies of the state duma actively joined the information campaign, the so-called propagandists there and so on and so forth, diplomats immediately joined in, you see the un right away. military aircraft, that's the main thing, what was he doing in the combat zone, which is 30 km to the actual border, before active hostilities, this is the question that arises, everything else is already derivative, they transported prisoners, they did not,

they should ensure the safety of prisoners on their territory until the moment broadcasts, on them to us, that’s all, you mentioned the ukrainian prisoner of war, maksym kolesnikov, he just wrote about the fact that when they returned home, and when they were returned home, for every 50 prisoners there were about 20 of those who are called military police, they flew from bryansk to... belgorod by plane, considering how quickly russia launched this information campaign about this plane, very quickly, that is, literally within an hour or two, russian propagandists joined in, and deputies joined in, now diplomats joined in, whose leaders are now in the security guard un , could it be a special operation that... had been held for a long time, but it was designed that if it happens, we will make the following statements, well, if

something happened to a russian plane near the border with ukraine, and this could happen with by any plane, because these planes usually either carry weapons or launch missiles on the territory of the ukrainian state, and that these lists, which also quickly appeared on the part of the russian side, that they could have been... prepared, simply they were waiting for the moment when, when they would just make it public and turn it into an event of such a global scale, where the ukrainians seem to be shooting at their own people, who are being sent there for exchange. look, well, this is not the first provocation that russia arranges with our prisoners, all of them now they mentioned about olenivka, where ukraine was also accused of allegedly using rockets. hamersa destroyed more than 50 of its prisoners of war, that is, it really could

have been a prepared provocation aimed at several points: the first point is to once again discredit ukraine on the international stage, that they do not know who they are shooting at and do not understand that do, to show it to the citizens of the russian federation. why don't we exchange, because you see what cannibals we have, they kill their own, another other problem they decided, it is as if to warn our military against the downing of future planes, because it is possible that there will be our prisoners of war on those planes, and this is actually a terrorist terrorist act, because using prisoners of war to cover military... military objects of military equipment there of other military operations,

it is actually a war crime, and it is considered a rather, well, rather gross provocation and is being investigated at the international level, but you understand, there is one nuance that the russians probably forgot about, or they did it on purpose are missed, during the preparation for the exchanges to... such a conditional silence is agreed upon and including the safety of flights of certain planes is discussed in relation to those used during the exchange, that is, no one from our command, knowing that there must be a large exchange , well, i certainly would not use any of my forces and means there to, well, eliminate military aircraft of the russian federation. in order to be able to undermine the possibility of exchanging our

prisoners in this way, and earlier this was discussed, agreed upon, and during exchanges in fact, well, i'm not saying that there is silence on the entire front, but on this part of the front there were definitely no provocations, on one side, on the other side, they tried to avoid them, so everything that is happening now is an open provocation. on the part of the russian federation, and ukraine can only wait for the evidence, what evidence will it be, will it be presented on the bodies of our prisoners of war? well, then we have to deal with international experts, where did they come from, were they really destroyed in the plane, or were they tortured earlier, that is, it may be that this list, which they made public, is a list of those people who could have been killed. well, for example, the same olenivtsi, because they write about 12 soldiers of the azov battalion, you know, the most

interesting thing is that now on the internet there are such assumptions that there are even people on those lists who were changed on the third of january, you understand, that is, it is not yet known what these are the lists where they started and everything was so on their knees, they were so quickly, quickly preparing to block this operation of theirs, well, the most interesting thing... what fell out of that plane like that, and some pallets with weapons of some sort, probably, but certainly not prisoners of war, could have fallen from the plane, mr. general, i remembered 2014, the month of july, when russian terrorists shot down a malaysian boeing that was in the airspace over donbas, and you can now either confirm or deny this, because i know that you have information, you were the deputy head of the sbu, you probably know, is it true that at the moment when this

malaysian boeing was in the air over donbas, in parallel in this... time over a russian plane with passengers from russia was flying over donbas, and the russians simply wanted to stage a provocation, to shoot down their plane, to accuse the ukrainians of having shot down a passenger plane, but they mistakenly shot down a malaysian boeing. in short, the tragedy happened on july 17. we had intelligence that on july 18, some mysterious blue helmets were there. from the russian federation, somewhere several brigades were supposed to enter, peacekeepers, so-called, were supposed to enter the territory of ukraine under some pretext, what pretext, no one understood, and when it really turned out that parallel , well, not parallel, there they crossed at the same point, these two planes were going, one plane was flying to lual kompura, this is a malaysian boeing, and the other one

was in larnaca to bring people to, as i understand it, on vacation. and uh, this plane really had to be, this plane had to be shot down and not just shot down, it had to fall into the territory controlled by ukraine, not by militants, and then there was a reason to enter this territory, take it under the control of the russians and call ukraine in international terrorism, in defeat a plane of the russian air fleet with russian citizens. such a case turned out, unfortunately or fortunately, i don’t know what to call it, when people die, and they shot down the wrong plane, and that, and this plane was sleeping not in the territory controlled by ukraine, but in the territory controlled by militants, and there was not a single citizen of the russian federation on board this plane, and the casus belli case was postponed

until the month of august, when they then... somewhere in the 20th of august, they still went with the same forces to saur moila and further. that's all that is, the russian federation can prepare provocations at the level of destroying its citizens quite effectively. well, we must also remember how in the early 2000s houses exploded in moscow, volgodonsk, and other cities of the russian federation, where chechens were accused, or... let's say, those who were supporters of the chechen republic, an independent, and for the fsb it is, well, a common practice, what do you say, as a professional, that is, how often do they use such methods, i understand that when they killed a beauty above the sky of the moscow region, then they absolutely

did not feel sorry for those pilots who were transported there for his team, in this... situation , human life is not worth anything to the russians in principle for them, or is it just so, because if they now claim , that there were not only captives on that plane, but also some negotiators there, that there was some group of representatives there from kadyrov and some other structures there, and that's all... they will now pretend that they destroyed, well, for them, human life is not worth anything at all, when there is a question about some of their strategic efforts to push political problems in one direction or another, that is, the war for them in all its elements is

a special operation, well, in the classical sense, putin as president and a member of the federal security service. gb , to put it simply, he treats all these elements of this war as special operations, as a provocation, as yes, as sabotage, as some certain elements that make up this mosaic of this so-called special military operation? you don't have to go far, you have to to understand that all shelling of ukrainian territories, especially recently, is not aimed at some military advantage there, at destabilization. the situation in the middle of the country to destroy the civilian population in order to , i don't know, terrify the civilian population there, so that they go out into the streets, try to put pressure on the authorities, because... that they don't have victories on the battlefield, the ones they want , maybe there are some tactical advances 100 m there, there are 100 m there, but

there is no such thing as to capture some large cities, regional centers there it turns out, and for this it is necessary to destabilize the situation in one or another territory of ukraine, to make as many victims as possible among the civilian population, this is the introduction of the connection of information which... here are the components, and this is the conduct of a hybrid war, when people do not wage war in the classical understanding of this word, and use all methods to achieve their goals. mr. general, the main intelligence department of the ministry of defense talks on its website about how in august of last year a ukrainian intelligence group penetrated the territory of the russian federation and, having covered 600 km... on foot, neutralized three enemy tu-22 aircraft. obviously, we are talking about the events at the soltsi airfield, in the novgorod region of the russian federation, where one tu-22 was completely burned and

two more were damaged. during the group's return to the territory controlled by ukraine, colonel oleg babii died, unfortunately, he was posthumously awarded the title of hero of ukraine. this is one of the episodes of our struggle, the greek struggle against the russian occupiers. in the body, as much as such a struggle, as much such special operations can weaken the russian federation, it is clear that 3tu is a sufficiently powerful special operation and very painful for the russian aviation, as these subversive special operations of ukraine can be painful not only for russia. in the novgorod region , but also in other regions of russia, conceptually, everything is very simple, the more there is about any events that

russia cannot, cannot arrange on its territory, explosions, sabotage, detonation of railways, boarding of trains, if drones fly somewhere, some extraordinary ones events, the more this will happen in different places of the russian federation, the more often russia will think, not only russia itself, as such an abstract organism, but its population will think about what are the causes of all these events, and this once, and secondly , it quite significantly distracts the russian federation from the need to use forces and means to protect certain objects. which also, taking into account its large territory, will greatly harm their, well, it will affect their

ability to conduct effective combat operations on the territory of ukraine, therefore the transfer military operations, the transfer of all those extraordinary events to the territory of the enemy, this is an effective fight against him, restraining him and in the end. uh, one of the elements of our future victory. mr. general, thank you for the conversation, it was general viktor yagun. friends, we work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. if you watch us live on youtube, please like this video. subscribe to our channel, and take part in our voting. today we ask you the following: do you trust you to anonymous telegram channels. yes, no, please vote on youtube, either with the yes or no button. if you're watching us on tv, pick up your phone and vote. if you trust anonymous telegram channels 0800 211-381, not 0800 211 382. all calls to these

numbers are free, call, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. later on our broadcast yuriy nikolov, journalist, co-founder of the independent group "our money". yury, i congratulate you and i am glad to see you on our air. greetings, serhiy, good evening. i will not ask you pronominally. telegram channels, because anonymous telegram channels write a lot about you and write a lot in connection with the event around your apartment, by unknown people who came to your door, plastered your door with various inscriptions, there they demanded that you go to the tsc or leave to the army, the law enforcement officers are already reporting that they have detained people who tried to break into your apartment, they are being investigated, you, you know what... what kind of people are these and most importantly, who hired them? no, nothing is unknown to me, i, along with the whole country, i just watch a video about myself somewhere in anonymous telegram channels, together with...

i read press releases about the fact that someone has been detained, and i draw some conclusions with my boyish mind, but no objective data about what is happening there behind the scenes of the investigation, unfortunately, i don't have it yet , were you asked about what you thought about it, and you gave evidence there, what you could point to, who could have done it, well , of course, the police during an interrogation, or a survey. bra asked my opinion about it, and i said that i definitely think it's pressure on me as a journalist, since putting pressure on me as a person, well, it's just, well, pointless, well , we have something somehow in ukraine, people to whom they come and cover the door with such things, yes ordinary people, that means my journalistic activity is meant , i still don't know who it is, i hope that the investigation there will find

the organizers of this attack. and what i knew, you just know, well, as a journalist, yes, i immediately thought to myself, what would i do to establish where it is running, you definitely need to find these guys attackers, it is definitely necessary to find their phones, correspondence, in order to get data about where they got that order, for this, i don’t know, trick, i call it something, that is, to understand how... these guys, who, according to the investigation, were detained in zhytomyr , cherkasy and kyiv regions, that is , they still live far from each other, someone gathered them in one place in kyiv, and made it possible to post a video of their debacle in an anonymous telegram channel, actually during the very debysha, that is, they are there for this video that you are

showed it now on the air, they posted it and... after that they continued to bang on my door for several minutes, that is , there is definitely some connection with the owners of this telegram channel, so i think that such a measure is logical for society , where you can work and where to find organizers, well, the guys just responded right away, said: here we are in front of nikolov's door, here we knocked, here we were doing everything, this is absolutely clear, you are a person who knows... about ukrainian corruption of everything, or almost everything, and obviously, obviously, you can say for sure, how does corruption during zelenskyi’s time differ from corruption that existed in previous times, that is, it is clear that the conditions in which corruption lives now are the conditions of war, and this corruption is a serious crime , about those who are at the front, about those who are fighting, about those who are not getting something. because

someone there takes and steals eggs, supplies, food, and all other things. well, the first difference is that under zelensky, more precisely now during the negotiations, attention from international allies to ukraine is incredible. well, now our state budget is supported by dollars, euros, yen, for 70% of our entire budget. previously, this... never happened, well , the imf there financed 2-3-4% of our budget there, and that is why our government has always, you know, entered into such a game: let's wave at the imf, promise reforms, and we will report something there , and they will take it as a reform, and it always worked, by the way, the imf continued to support us, but when the dependence on the budget, on foreign friends became so critical,

it became clear that it was impossible to continue in the old way, because you know, when blinkin or pritzker looks you in the eye, or borel says in english: "vladimir, this is a fac, for some kind of work there, well, you can't to continue it in the old regime, and that is why we are now observing that from the transparent sector, what is transparently happening there in zakopill, the margin of corruption is really disappearing, right in front of our eyes, but at the same time we are seeing more and more signals that corruption - corruption is shifting to the law enforcement sector, customs officials, tax officials, that is , where bribes are demanded, and there are more and more signals from there, and here it seems to me that lately we have begun to approach the infamous times of yanukovych, well, we still have such a thin line separating us from this,

because during the time of the donetsk people, i remember... how they used to kick out the doors.