the russian ill-76 plane crashed near belgorod. what is known about this plane crash is broadcast by bbc news ukraine, in the studio of jafer umerov. the russian ministry of defense said that there were ukrainian prisoners of war on board the plane and to blame. whether ukraine is under fire, ukrainian officials talk about the need for a detailed investigation, but under what circumstances did the russian military plane crash. so the russian plane ill-76 to the pope of the belgorod region. russia blames the armed forces for shooting down the plane. ukrainian officials did not comment on the disaster for a long time state that a detailed check is needed

regarding the information about the presence of prisoners of war on board. local russian telegram channels shared this video, it shows the plane flying down, then exploding. and according to the statement of the ministry of defense of russia, there were 65 ukrainian prisoners of war on board the plane, who were supposedly flying for exchange. the ukrainian side declares that they are checking this information. the main directorate of intelligence confirmed that the exchange of prisoners was planned. and he was supposed to be today, january 24, but the information is whether there were any ukrainian prisoners of war on board the plane that crashed are checking what is known about the plane crash? according to the statement of the ministry of defense of russia, a military plane was flying to the chkalovsky airfield in the suburbs of moscow in the direction of belgorod. and at about 10:00 a.m. outside kyiv, the plane fell 5-6 km from the village of yablynovo, which is about 70 km from...

the city of belgrade and 90 km from the ukrainian border. what kind of plane is this? il-76 is a heavy military transport aircraft, it was developed back in the soviet union. the plane can deliver cargo with a maximum weight of up to 60,000 tons. it can be military equipment, weapons and people. the plane can cover more than 400 km and accommodate, as observers say, more than a hundred people. and we will talk more about how the ukrainian authorities react to the plane crash with bbc correspondent zhanna bespyatchuk. zhanna, i congratulate you, we have been waiting for an official message from the ukrainian authorities all day, what is known so far, what information is there? yes, congratulations, so the ukrainian authorities, first of all, in principle, were in no hurry to comment on what could have happened today in the belgorod region. and we waited several hours for the first ones

the statements, and the statements eventually came out, they came out from the general staff of the armed forces of ukraine and from the side of military intelligence, the main intelligence department of the ministry of defense, that is, directly from those who should be involved in everything related to these events, and also, regarding the exchange of prisoners of war, which was planned to be held today, but it did not take place. so, what can be said, neither the general staff. neither confirmed nor denied the involvement of ukraine, the ukrainian military in the possible downing, and the military transport plane il-76 in the belgorod region. the general staff said that the ukrainian military will continue to destroy the means of delivery of russian missiles, primarily those missiles that are being fired at kharkiv, kharkiv oblast today.

in the last week, 19 rocket attacks took place precisely in the regional center and the territory of the region, and the armed forces of ukraine vowed that they would continue to try to destroy the means of delivery of these same missiles, that these missiles remain a great danger for kharkiv oblast and the city, and accordingly, this was the main content of this statements, also said that they will continue to monitor. space over the belgrod region , because, as is known, this very territory of the russian federation, which directly borders the kharkiv region, from the very beginning of the war was a kind of bridgehead for launching missiles, both s-300 anti-aircraft guided missiles and iskander ballistic missiles at kharkiv , what kind of launches, rocket attacks over the past week have led to the death of people in... the city center was shelled, this is

what the armed forces said about it, and genshteib emphasized to this, this is actually another statement, another statement came from gur. the ministry of defense said several fundamentally important things: firstly, that currently the military intelligence of ukraine does not have complete reliable information about who exactly the full crew was on board the plane that crashed in the belgorod region, and what the plane was carrying. then the second moment confirmed that it was indeed today that the exchange of prisoners and russian military personnel was supposed to take place. they were delivered safely to that place, that location, where all this was supposed to happen. in addition, gur emphasizes that the rules of conducting such exchanges, both public and private, say that each side must guarantee

the safety of prisoners of war whom it sends for this exchange, and this was russia's obligation, and that gur did not receive, in fact, as we... can understand from their statement, in advance the information about what the route of delivery of ukrainian prisoners of war will be, it was not said that the city of belgorod would be on this route, although during previous other exchanges of prisoners of war, such information the ukrainian side received. thank you, zhanna, please stay in touch, let's continue the conversation, and russia immediately accused ukraine of the loss. as russian officials have claimed, the bbc's moscow correspondent, steve rosenberg, will tell? this is what we know at the moment. early this morning, around 11 a.m. local time , a russian ilyushen-76 military transport plane crashed in the belgorod region of russia. this is

one of those regions of russia that border ukraine. she appeared shortly after that cell phone footage showing a plane falling from the sky, followed by a giant fireball rising from the crash site...seconds later. the russian defense ministry then said that 74 people were on board the plane, including 65 ukrainian prisoners of war, who moscow said were to take part in a prisoner exchange later today. we cannot independently confirm this. it is interesting that later the chairman of the defense committee of the russian parliament, andriy kartapolov, made a statement in the parliament. according to him, it's up in the air there was another plane carrying 80 more ukrainian prisoners of war, but that plane turned around. now, russian officials say that no one survived the crash, and an investigation has begun at the crash site. russia makes it clear that it believes that the plane

was shot down by ukraine. the ministry of defense of russia said that they observed the launch of two ukrainian missiles, but we cannot confirm this. this is what russian officials are saying. but, as i already said,... they make it clear that they believe that the plane was shot down by ukraine. and russia demand to urgently convene a meeting of the un security council. this was stated by russian foreign minister sergey lavrov, who is currently in the united states in new york at wang's headquarters. ukrainian prisoners of war were transported. ukrainian prisoners of war were taken to the belgorod region in order to carry out another exchange agreed between moscow and kyiv. instead of this exchange taking place, the ukrainian side from the district of kharkiv region struck this plane with anti-aircraft missiles, which became fatal. we have already invited an urgent meeting of the

un security council. since the beginning of the war, ukraine and russia have already exchanged prisoners 49 times , and it is not uncommon for military aircraft to be used for the exchange, because a person may be somewhere. in the depths of russia, and for exchange it must be quickly delivered to ukraine, the russian border. this is how the veteran of the armed forces, former prisoner of war maksym kolesnikov, describes his return experience. it was exchanged in february of last year at the border, on the border of the bilhorod region of russia and the sumy region. he says that he was transported by plane, but his eyes were tied up at the same time, it casts doubt on the fact that there could have been only three guards on board, which are mentioned in the statement of the ministry of defense. the logistics were as follows: first , five people were taken to us from the town of novozydkiv in the bryansk region by vans to the military camp near bryansk, then by a military plane, it was most likely

il 76, they took us , people were taken to kursk, and then to belgorod, and from belgorod we were taken to the camp on buses. where we were waiting for lunch during the transportation of prisoners before leaving the camp or from the colony depending on where they are , it is pulled very low on the head. the cap and eyes are tied with tape, well, there may be cases with bags, i have not personally seen this, mostly a cap is used, which is given out when they are moved, and go, the eyes are tied, because the tape is quite long, well, maybe someone can peek a little , but blindfolded like that, i didn't see this plane from the outside, of course, but in total we had about 60 people, because we all flew on this plane and we were taken by these minibuses and then we were ... in three tents, each monomets, here are these for we were accommodated, there were more than 20 people, plus

we were flown by security, who then washed up in these minibuses, each minibus had at least three armed military policemen, and now imagine a healthy plane in which the lights do not work, it was dark, when we were flying, and there were 60 people who had their hands tied like that, but their legs were not tied, because they were walking, they had to move, and here... why are they standing on them somehow trying in this darkness they are watched by three people who cannot be armed weapons, firearms, because in the plane you can't shoot anything, they, of course, they have automatic weapons, these guards, but they can't use them, so they all still have a few conditional ones, and just imagine, that there are three guards for 65 people, what they can do in ithaca, nothing, so of course this is just unrealistic information. and let's continue the conversation with bbc correspondent zhanna bespiachuk, we

just heard maksym kolesnikov, a former prisoner of war, who says that he flew by plane for exchange, and how much is it a common practice for russia to deliver prisoners for exchange by plane? so , what can be said, i will rely on... communication with former prisoners of war, ukrainian soldiers who were in russian captivity, they really remember that they were taken to the place of exchange of planes, and the peculiarity is that everyone points out, they were not warned in advance that they were being taken to exchange, and sometimes some simply assumed that it could be a staging to other prisons, in the depths of the russian federation. and often people did not know the machine before, that they are already being taken home, and therefore precisely with regard

to the planes and the fact that the il-76 appears in this today's story, it can be said that it is typical, typical for the organization of exchanges of prisoners of war, and these very military transports are used planes to transport 50-60 people. people on board together with security, plus crew can accommodate. and in general, who in the ukrainian government, military command takes care of prisoners of war? uhu, yes, prisoners of war are taken care of, first of all, as for their exchanges, military intelligence, gurmin defense, coordination headquarters, gur is directly involved in the organization and... gur, it is gur who does not confirm that there were

ukrainian prisoners of war on board the il-76 in the palgorod region. thank you, bbc correspondent zhanna bezpyatchuk was in touch with us. and that's all we have time to tell today. subscribe to our youtube channel, leave comments, and we'll be back on the air tomorrow at 9 p.m. take care. greetings, friends, on the live air of the tv channel , the verdict program is the second part of ours release of today, i'm serhii rudenko, today in the program: speculations surrounding

the downfall of il-76 in belgorod, russian information attack on hot tracks, will ukraine lose the media war? kremlin hypocrites. moscow demanded that kyiv be condemned for shelling civilians, the un confirmed its support for ukraine. the pressure on business will be eased, a three-month moratorium on the investigation. for those who are watching us there now, please like this video so that it can be trended on youtube and facebook, and participate in our voting, today we ask you about the following: do you trust anonymous telegram channels, if you are on youtube, everything is quite simple, yes, no, or your answer, please write in the comments under this video, if you watch us in tv broadcasts, pick up the phone and vote if

you trust anonymous telegram channels 0800-211-381, no 0800-211-380. all calls to these numbers are free, call, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. volodymyr tsibulko, a political analyst, is our guest today. writer, people's deputy of ukraine of the fourth convocation. mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. congratulations, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. oleg sagakian, political scientist, head of the united coordination center platform. mr. oleg, i congratulate you. thank you for being with us today. my greetings are the same. oleksiy koshel, political scientist, head of the committee of voters of ukraine. mr. oleksiy, i congratulate you and i am glad to see you on our air. also good evening. so, gentlemen, let's start with a quick question, well, a kind of rhetorical question to political experts on anonymous telegram channels. well, since we are asking our viewers

if they trust the anonymous telegram channel, i will also ask you, as readers, as consumers of information or? do you trust anonymous telegram channels, mr. volodymyr, i do not trust them at all, brand publications with a good credit history are important to me. thank you, mr. olezh, i don’t know, do you trust anonymous producers of dairy products or household appliances, or even sneakers, i personally don’t, the same with telegram channels, products, under which they are not ready to put a name to, it is... not worth anything, accordingly, no one risks reputationally, i do not trust such products. thank you, mr. oleksiy. this is not even about the problem of anonymous channels, but the problem of the fact that the russian fsb is making itself at home in our information space. i personally see that a number of telegram channels of millionaires, millionaires who have a ukrainian audience,

they work there like a copycat with innovation and other propaganda resources. and our situation has reached such a point that last year we were whole for a week the country discussed the issue of putin's death, and even the secretary of the national security council was connected to this discussion. this means that we have a disaster in this regard, and therefore it is necessary to make sufficiently tough decisions, because it is a matter of national security, it is very serious. well, if telegram channels, anonymous telegram channels, sometimes appear at... the conference of the head of the ukrainian, ukrainian state, volodymyr zelenskyi, the answer here is simply not to the consumers of this information of these anonymous telegram channels, but to those who tolerate anonymous telegram channels, and i absolutely agree with you that you cannot trust anonymous telegram channels, because there is verification, and

there are verified telegram channels, it is better not to consume information in the telegram channel at all, but to receive... from publications, which are really branded and can be trusted, i totally agree with you. as for these telegram channels, today the russian telegram channels began to spread the topic of the downing of the il-76 over belgorod region, they immediately began to emphasize what happened in the sky, in the state neighboring to us, moreover, it seemed that the way this... information was spread and then picked up, including by some ukrainian telegram channels, that it was a preparation for the fact that the ukrainians shot down the il-76 with prisoners of war on board , who were tried to be delivered to belgorod, how would you assess the reaction

of the ukrainian side, because what russia is doing now, it is trying... on international platforms, they quickly spread this information that the ukrainians shot down the plane with their own prisoners of war, literally in an hour the security council meeting is due to start, and lavrov is there, he is already saying that this issue should be considered immediately at the un security council. did we communicate correctly and is it even worth talking here about the correctness of communication in the conditions. whether it is a question of the military, intelligence, sbu, and it is these structures that must give accurate and competent answers to these questions, it is obvious that we do not have answers to these questions now. questions to which we do not have answers now, mr. oleg, well, the situation is not trivial, first of all it should be noted that

it is never possible to be fully prepared for such russian operations, but here we can assess the situation from several points at once: firstly, we understand that the enemy is cynical, and similar situations, similar to these, the russians have already created and olenivka and mch -17, other attempts of ukraine to blame, that is, in principle, this situation... is typical and patterned, certain algorithms for responding to such situations should have already been developed, unfortunately, we see that they are not enough, as in the authorities, yes and in society, we we see that a part of society and the media , including them, immediately chased hotly for information, began to delay russian interpretations due to a lack of information, and this is inherent not only in our media space, but also, unfortunately, in the west, we can also state that serious shores. holes in their information resistance exist and the russians know them very well, if we talk about the expert environment, let's start from afar, then

the best thing that the leaders of public opinion, experts, political scientists, all of them related to media commentary, could do is to keep silent, because to the opinion, trying to analyze the situation without enough data, they are of little interest to anyone and can only harm this situation. and the experts should be silent loudly with many voices, who should speak, the specialized services should speak with one voice, and here, as always, the weak link of ukrainian communication was not enough, officially, there is the lack of the principle of a single voice, each of the services, the strength of its ability, intellectual, informational, political and other capacities began to comment on each of their ways, and giving the most abstract comments without giving any... objective factual information, this is wrong, in a good way there should be either a single voice or a single coordination of the various departments responsible for their areas, and the authorities,

official structures should provide a constant flow of information , even while it is not known what exactly happened, only at least some scraps of facts appear, they should immediately become part of the public discourse precisely from the official bodies, strengthening trust in them, only from russia do some appear interpretations and they have... similarities in surnames, for example, in the flight path of the plane, where it is clear that the russians are lying, this should immediately become materials for communication by official ukrainian structures, with infographics, with 3d modeling, with the overlay of this , with the previous russian information campaigns, the source of information, ukraine should have become the key in this situation, it was not possible to do this, so we actually see that on the international arena... uncertainty began to dominate and in some places the russian propaganda, in all fairness it must be said that a number of western media, in particular those that cooperate with ukrainian

journalists, where this information came out precisely from or from their reporters who are in ukraine, or from hired ukrainian journalists who wrote for them materials, there you can see a balanced position without the use of russian propaganda, although it is clear that without throwing ukrainian hats, but where this was not the case, a whole series of western media dragged out russian interpretations, and this is a shame, once again we demonstrated that we were not ready for such a russian attack. mr. volodymyr, if you were to advise zelenskyi's team, what would you advise in this situation, or the military command, the military-political command of ukraine, what would you advise to do in this situation, that is, there is a territory not under the control of ukraine, we cannot gather evidence that in fact, about what the russian is talking about. federation, and it is clear that in this situation, the kremlin is lying as always, because we have a long history of russian lies, only in the last 10 years, you can remember, this and match

17 was shot down over donetsk, this buchei, mariupol, they always lie when they talk about something, they can lie in this situation too, how to answer this lie, when, for sure, that verification there is no such thing as the fact that our military ... employees were there, well, first of all, we need to turn to international law and the custom of waging war. the party holding them is responsible for the fate of prisoners of war. if the prisoners of war were brought to the front line unarmed under the bullets of ukrainian fighters, then no ukrainian fighters are responsible for this. if there really were, well, they weren't there, a prisoner of war on this board, then firstly, the culprit of this story is the russian

federation, secondly, the board, a military transport, is not a civilian plane. further, the russian side knows for sure that in the operational zone of ukrainian air defense, ukrainian troops are shooting down, the analogue, by the way , is the a50 plane, it is the same 76, only, there is a space plate stuck on top of it, but it is the one himself. 76th, if the russian side brings this board under c the zone of impact of ukrainian missiles, then the russian side is the culprit, what are the claims against ukraine, this is not a civilian plane, but the ukrainian media at some point got confused and began not to inform about the fact that the air defense system shot down, and maybe the russian air defense system shot down the il-76 over

the belgorod region. and they started talking about prisoners of war, and here, by the way, the services that are responsible for the exchange of prisoners of war behaved completely crookedly, because the first thing they had to explain was that they had to verify the lists, and when the exchange takes place, the ukrainian side would definitely have lists of those persons whom the russian side was ready to exchange for its own, for russians. this is a very strange story, very strange, i have the impression that at some point the emotionally unstable employees of the media pool, the pro-government bank, the bank suddenly realized that it was necessary to protect, well, let's say so,

the legality of military actions. of ukrainians, and not the emotional component, as well as shifting the emphasis for the agreement to the russians on the prisoners of war. in fact, there could not be prisoners of war there, because if you pay attention to one important factor: 605 ukrainian prisoners of war, six crew members and three escorts. you don't think that 65 soldiers could... seize the 76th plane in the air, considering that there were only three accompanying them, sew the ukrainian flag there and wrap it up, force the crew to fly to boryspil, no one thought about it , that is, this is such a mismatch, and this mismatch emerged already in the evening, when the russian side stupidly made public only crew list and all, well questions very

very very really. a lot, but here we are, we are talking about how the russians are spinning this situation and trying to demonstrate to the whole world that ukrainians are killing, killing their mr. serhiy, so this is our reinsurance, because literally a few days ago, a russian attack on the donetsk market, the interpretation of this blow, she, it was preparation for the next one, and now we will see how it changes... the propaganda paradigm is russian, they suddenly started with one voice, starting with some deputies of the state duma will decide that ukraine is a terrorist country. ukraine did not seize a single meter of russian land, but suddenly it, well, all of their sources, so to speak, begin to portray ukraine as a terrorist country. and it is clear why? because russia cannot stop the flow of new weapons, then russia creates an image that can

be sold to an unstable part of the electorate in western countries, that ukraine cannot be given weapons, this is what an operation is being conducted for, and the funniest thing is that some ukrainian influencers have taken to this russian game, me, honestly speaking, it is frightening in general how many russian, so to speak, all kinds of good russian, so-called ukrainian tv channels. we need to come to our senses a little and start listening to ukrainians, and not fill the cities with all kinds of russian, so to speak, refugees from putin's regime, they are of no use for the ukrainian struggle. you mentioned what and how the russians interpret this story about donetsk when...