that russia cannot stop the flow of new weapons, then russia forms an image that can be sold to an unstable part of the electorate in western countries, that ukraine cannot be given weapons, this is what an operation is being conducted for, and the funniest thing is that some ukrainian influencers fell for this russian game , to be honest, what scares me in general is how many russians... so to speak, all kinds of good russian, so-called ukrainian tv channels, you need to be petrified a little and start listening to ukrainians, and not blow your brains with all kinds of russian, so to speak, refugees from the putin regime, they are of no use to the ukrainian struggle, you mentioned that and

how the russians in this story about donetsk, when they got into the bazaar there and killed 27 people, and obviously the russians covered this bazaar themselves, at least they did not provide evidence that the ukrainians did it, but there were min 120s fostoviks lying around the bazaar, yes, but these are ukrainian troops 40 km from the bazaar, they cannot finish them off with mines, mortars, well i... i mean they tried to use this fact already in the security council of the un, they said there that a meeting should be called, let's listen to what lavrov said there. the reality is that, despite the complete failure of the armed forces of ukraine on the battlefield, the western patrons of the kyiv regime continue to push it with maniacal persistence into a senseless military confrontation. despite the fact that the kyiv

regime survives thanks to western handouts, and even their spokesmen admit it. most ukrainians are beginning to understand who they are a real enemy, and who has been troubling them for many years , scaring russia, planting lies about our country and canceling our common history. mr. oleksiy, taking into account the fact that... krov still has access to the united nations organization, the russians are not expelled from there and are not discriminated against in any way, although they are the charter of the united nations organization, already there most of the articles have been violated by the russian federation , in your opinion, how convincing is what is being broadcast, what is being rebroadcasted by lavov, and what is being broadcast by the russian mass media abroad about ukraine, because in the end they form a public one.

an opinion that then affects the elections, who is elected, whether there will be aid to ukraine or not, and of course, now the russians are doing their best to ensure that the west is established in the opinion that ukrainians are terrorists, they do not weapons must be given. look, today's story, i don't want to use the word tragedy, because i can clearly see the russian handwriting, there are two important things here. firstly, russia has not yet provided confirmation of information about 65 dead ukrainian soldiers, that is, they had many statements that there are bodies scattered over 2-3 km, many other things, many emotional statements, but there was no photo confirmation, video confirmation for a long enough time, well, this is alarming to say the least, well, maybe they will edit it later, but these are other things, question number two, but i have analyzed in great detail how

the propaganda machine works, but by and large we often overestimate the russians, they work in a rather haphazard, chaotic manner, their system fails, both propaganda and informational. today i had the impression that you know, the so-called homemade blanks, when everything was planned in advance and statements were clearly made, and of course, against this background, uh, our arguments look insufficient, especially against the background of the failure that... to the reports of certain ukrainian media, and you you know, what worries me is the phrase that the sources of our newspaper in power report one, two, three, i apologize, which sources, what can we be talking about, when it comes to leaking information that has a military component, this is a crime , it can only be seen as a crime, and it shows our vulnerability, i.e. in the information sphere we have now, i'm sorry... we are

in a complete mess, we need to call things by their names, i.e. everyone who is not lazy, i.e. the advisers of the president's office, comment on military issues. begin to comment on the details of possible agreements with russia, there demands on russia, the heads of military administrations, instead of commenting on the issue of bomb shelters in the territory of their region, they resort to philosophizing on the foreign policy issues of everything, everyone else, that is, everyone in our country, whoever gets to the microphone becomes a big star in the information plane, and what should be done now? first, it is necessary to clearly define: who in the country deals with propaganda issues, who is the main analytical center? in my opinion, now the key role should be played by the national security and defense council, i.e. so far in the public sphere we do not see activity and actually its key,

exclusive role in the issue of strengthening our defense capability, i.e. this is how we see many informative statements, beautiful gestures, beautiful words, bright statements, but... the work , well, at least i don't observe it, but the nsdc was supposed to be the main analytical center of the country and the main center that would regulate such statements, such interpretation, coordinate work with various branches of government, that is, this is precisely their duty. question number two: we really have a problem with telegram, but actually today i clearly saw several channels of millionaires. who worked according to russian models, i apologize, they inflated the information that was raised by the russian the media saturated them, but emphasized them, this is working against the enemy in terms of information, so tough decisions must be made in this matter, well, first of all, if we

do not have the technical ability to ban anonymous telegram channels, then i am not ready to speak, as far as it is technically possible, that is, we have telegram channels. dodgers, we have telegram channels where information about subpoenas is posted, telegram channels that leak video information about shelling to the enemy, if we can't technically ban telegram channels, let's ban the network the telegram network during the period of martial law , i apologize, there will be nothing terrible , in the same way classmates hacked vkontakte earlier, later russian television, the disaster did not happen, the disaster did not happen, and plus, at the same time, the information marathon must be stopped, because the increase in the share of information from anonymous channels, well, in general, now 80% of ukrainians , the main source of information is social networks, this is a disaster, and therefore, this is a response

to the fact that trust in a single marathon, in a single button on television, is decreasing, and confidence in this is growing, it is necessary to do it radically. conclusions, mr. oleg, who would have, besides the national security council, of course, who would have, in the information policy during wartime and martial law, who should have played the first violin, because i, for example, do not really imagine that the secretary the nsdc, oleksiy danilov could organize this work, well, i mean, i'm sorry, but after we... have been disconnected for two years without t2, three tv channels, no one can answer why this happened, and it is impossible to restore justice, because well, someone is rubilnik turned it off, they said that espresso, the fifth channel and direct should be turned off, although we

include both representatives of the government and representatives of the opposition, everyone is included, and we do not have any, no reservations about this. and what is said about the fact that espresso belongs to petro poroshenko is not true, that is, it is simply not true at all, who, who in your opinion, in the country should take this role, i don't know, arbitrator, i do not know the regulator, regulator and information flows, because in order to prohibit telegram, obviously we need a decision of the national security council, but someone has to prepare the decision of the national security council anyway. well, look, if we are talking about bans , we are still at war with russia, and we have all the disadvantages of playing for the good guys, and russia uses all the advantages of playing for the bad guys, and it should also be taken into account that not all methods are for us are available, those by which

the russians act, in particular, any ban, and it , of course, as an exception, can be an administrative decision, but then it must be absolutely legitimate internally in society and externally, that is, it is needed... to prepare, clarify, explain, show on the fingers, and then how such a step can be excluded. under other circumstances , of course, there should be a court process, but the strange thing is that... if you work out the argumentative base well, why something needs to be blocked, for example, or prohibited, then actually it is the materials for the court, and then any court will make a decision in the same way and in a judicial order ban one or another, for example, the telegram channel. if we talk about anonymous media, then they are anonymous only conditionally, because there are always ip-addresses that can be calculated, there are always financial chains that can also be traced, there are always other digital traces that... remain, so it is only a matter of skill of their technical technological ability to do this,

it is clear that the information space need to be protected, and here the question is for specialized special services and the cyber police, which have the necessary tools to do this. the second question is that countering propaganda is substantive, it is not so much about the issue of counternarratives or counterpropaganda, it is not works, and it's really ineffective, you always have to rise to a level a little higher and propose an agenda that will... just absorb the propaganda narratives of the enemy and already use them in your game, it's always intellectual work, so it's a question of again anyway, or special services, or to the creation of a system of state orders and cooperation with specialized analytical centers and commercial structures, that is, it must be an understanding of the state, there must be a priority of this issue and that it is not solved simply administrative methods or communication, that this issue is resolved with... much more systematically and deeply, and analytical, intellectual work is needed here. and the third point

, this is actually strategic communications, not to be confused with pr, because being a strategist is not only about pr and marketing, it is a much broader and deeper issue, and accordingly , anyone can be this communication center, it can be the president's office, it can be the national security service of ukraine, it can be the cabinet of ministers, it can be the educational commander's rate, it can be a dynamic once a day or once a week, absolutely. it doesn't matter how it's built, it's all already adjusted depending on what goals are set and in what context we exist, how dynamically information changes, which day, like today, it would be necessary to immediately create a communication rate and every hour should come out speaker and inform about the events surrounding this plane, in parallel with this with the legal position, with pictures, at all, including various representatives of various services, military, etc., it was necessary to give as much information as possible... everyone should be tired from the flow of information from ukraine and not to leave room for these russian insinuations

and their informational manipulations, they should be reflected even at the takeoff, which is called, and some days, maybe even once a day it is worth giving some kind of digest, it can be any structure, but it should be key, central, which is endowed with the right to form strategic communications and the primacy in providing it to the outside, further. this chessboard is for specialized services, everyone responsible in his field can communicate within the limits and in the space of their responsibility, as independently as possible, decentralized, but exactly in the field of their responsibility, and then there would not be a situation when we currently have up to 10 speakers of various officialdoms from different departments who can communicate on military issues, the diplomatic situation is handled by five departments and communicate with people of various ranks and ranks, half of them who do not bear responsibility and are not even the state. civil servants, and so on each of the issues in our country you do not know who to turn to and from whom

the final state position is really is wrong, and this only brings uncertainty and distrust to the public communications of ukraine at that time, so these are three planes: the cyber plane, countering propaganda and the suffering of communication. thank you, mr. olezh, gentlemen, after a short break we will return to our conversation, do not switch. ordinary things become unreal. heavy bags are not for my sore back. for back pain, try dolgit cream. long-acting cream relieves pain, reduces swelling and improves joint mobility. with dolgid cream, whatever you want, i'll lift it. dolgit is the only yellow cream for joint and back pain. at muscle spasms tablets dolgit anticonvulsants. dollgit anti-convulsants for relaxing muscles and calves. oh, and we got wet, can you have some tea, mom, dad, what should i do to avoid getting sick? vitamin c, d3,

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work live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are currently watching us live. on these platforms, please like this video, in order for this video to be promoted in the trends of these platforms, and most importantly, take part in our survey, today we ask you this , do you trust anonymous telegram channels, yes, no, everything is quite simple in youtube, if you have your opinion about telegram channels, please write in the comments below this video, if you watch us in tv broadcasts, pick up your phone and vote if you trust. by anonymous telegram channel 0800-211-381 or 0800-211-382. all calls to these numbers are free, call, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. let me remind you that today on our air volodymyr tsibulko, oleg sagakyan and oleksiy koshel. we continue our conversation, and about how the russians work and how they

are trying to prevent us from getting finance at the current stage. and aid, military aid, in the context of the history of the il-76 disaster, which today crashed in the belgorod region, in parallel with this, there are discussions about the german taurus, whether they will be long-range missiles or not, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine kuleba in an interview with bilt reported that negotiations with the german government on the supply of long-range missiles are still ongoing continue, and ukraine does not lose to... get them. let's listen to what kuleba said. we don't need taurus to attack moscow. we do not need the long-range missiles provided by our western partners to attack moscow or any other part of russian territory. we need taurus to destroy the russian military infrastructure behind the

front line on the territory of ukraine. in parallel. with this information appeared with a reference to the german newspaper handelsblad that britain offers germany to buy back tauruses, in return great britain will give a storm shadow in additional long-range missiles. of course, this work conducted by ukraine in the international arena depends on many factors, including propaganda, how media resources work, among others. uh, if you compare how uh, how russia works, how ukraine works on international platforms and in general in the international field, let's say, informational, mr. oleksiy, you can say to what extent our counter-propaganda, which interferes with russian propaganda on the international arena, does it exist at all, or can we

to compete and what we compete with, here it is very important to perceive objectively. this is what is happening in the world information field, because for the last four months, there has been intense pressure on republicans in the united states, on republican politicians, so that they make a decision in favor of ukraine. and very often, when ukrainians hear the words that this is the last chance for ukraine, the last funds of the american government are left there, the pentagon has been evaluated very badly there, but we have a feeling of panic, that is, the last three or four... months we began to simply perceive emotionally and panic, because there was a huge flurry of statements, and therefore for us ukrainian citizens, we must understand that a large part of these statements. the majority of statements are important, this is not even an objective assessment, this is an attempt to put emotional pressure on the republicans, this is a kind of influence campaign, and here i don't know how to characterize it

, whether to say, unfortunately, whether to say realistically, the ukrainian authorities also joined in this work and also sometimes makes statements that many must perceive as panicky, here every statement need to be considered separately, but it's quite natural that our position... ours is such , perhaps even a panicked position, it should influence the republicans, and therefore, actually, i would like to convey the point that we need a higher percentage optimism , what world publications write about, what world politicians declare, it is not necessarily a realistic picture, it is not necessarily a pragmatic view, it is a certain campaign of influence, but at the same time, at the same time, i one gets the impression that on many topics... the key issues of our foreign policy are either not clearly thought out, or there is no such pragmatic line.

i see the relations with slovakia , the relations with hungary, we still play a lot of things, in many issues, we simply play tricks, we play the younger brother, we play to please our western allies as much as possible, instead of defending certain pragmatic interests . that is, i mean, i do not remember when the ambassador of slovakia or the ambassador of hungary was summoned to kyiv for anti-ukrainian statements there, say, individual high-ranking officials. i do not see that at the level of the ukrainian government or ukrainian politicians, they carefully hinted to hungary that we will not only have to solve the issue of multiple citizenship, we will have to solve the problem that in the public service and in the self-government bodies... they cannot work people with dual citizenship, this means those citizens who live in transcarpathia and have a second hungarian passport in their pocket. well, i think that only

such hints, such a tougher pragmatic line, she would allow, well in a certain way, to change the position there in a certain way, i am not saying radically, but to change the position of the hungarians in a certain way, that is, we need to change strategies in certain directions. to view them in full, thank you, mr. oleksiy, mr. volodymyr, uh, i am not asking about this counter-propaganda for nothing, because we know that in principle there is only one telethon, and it is usually directed at the internal consumer, the external consumer should be the directed energy and opportunities of the freedom tv channel are there, or i don't know, and foreign languages. we don't have it anymore, although it once upon a time, and i still remember, and you also remember, the newspaper visti from ukraine, i think that's what it was called, and a society, a society

of ukraine, which, which worked abroad near the golden gate, somehow we don't have it practiced, i.e. can it partially solve the tasks facing the ukrainian state, or do we still need to rely on international media and influential media. but on the condition that we send the right messages there, well, not like serhiy leshchenko sent a message to europe that we need to cut aid to refugees there so that they were you coming home? well, this is what leshchenko created, it is simply evidence that for the last months, probably six, uh, the political authorities in ukraine are not concerned with the state, but with their own survival. therefore, when oleg talks about strategic communications, look, we have one super important topic that should be interrupted today, russian narratives,

russia is conducting an election campaign in the occupied territories, which is an international crime, and the ukrainian authorities are sniffing in a rag and nobody won't even open his mouth about it, that is we have a completely unqualified... such sloppy nutcrackers in power who think , go to bed where they can make money and wake up with the thought that if we want to save our own ass, we have to save our state, they have forgotten what it is to work for victory, why , why, in fact , how much international communication has been launched in recent months, the behavior of verkhovna rada chairman stefanchuk, who blocks... the participation of deputies in all kinds of international conferences and inter-parliamentary communications, is especially absolutely criminal, and this is just one of those important mechanisms that must work day and night.

to bear the positions of ukraine both regarding the occupied territories and the rights of ukrainians in russia, no one talks about it at all, no one talks about it. well, why, why, mr. oleg, this communication is missing, indeed, mr. volodymyr is talking about the elections that are expected in the temporarily occupied territories, and in principle, the topic here is quite simple: there are putin's elections, and they will be... legitimized including in these regions, which in these regions, which are temporarily part of the russian federation under their constitution, well, that is, if they vote for him there , then there is no need to tell the world that he is the self-proclaimed president of the russian federation, so the actual legitimacy in principle can be put, say, as we, as they calculated there, but if those

regions that voted for him ... are not part of the russian federation de jure, so can he be perceived as the president of russia at all? unfortunately, everything here depends on the extent to which the world is ready to take this tough position, because since the 14th year in russia, elections have been held on the occupied the territories of ukraine, in particular in crimea, which russia officially annexed, and accordingly, nevertheless, putin remained servile for a long enough time, because the world turned a blind eye to it. currently, ukraine has conducted a number of communications well in advance of that, in particular, the vote in paris regarding the non -recognition of putin's russian elections, his re-election as president in these elections, that is , certain activities still went on in this way, another matter is that there is no systematic support for this topic , here it would be necessary to build a main narrative, which is narrative, this is a certain story line, a plot, a story, and then messages and all other events should be strung on it, and in this case this plot could continue to live on its own with only limited references and limited

references. and factoring in order for it to continue its existence, this is a certain strategic work in the modern form with communications, and not just going out there and working out the boxing message that no one will address and watch one and a half people online. unfortunately, systematicity is not a strong point of the ukrainian state apparatus, for all the years of independence , and everything depends very much on whether a professional and strong personal figure heads a certain institution or not. with someone they work more or less normally, with someone they do not work at all, with someone they work in the negative. we understand that the staff, unfortunately, today they are far from ideal in many areas, and those people who are specialists in their places, well, they cannot pull everything on themselves, and accordingly , there is not enough strategy. ukraine mostly reacts already to fires that flared up, and somewhere more effectively, somewhere less, more effectively extinguishes them. if you compare the russian and ukrainian propaganda presence externally, then, of course, objectively

, russia... is more represented, but also because a, they have much more resources for this, b, they inherited the soviet network even before that and developed all these years, they understood perfectly well that this is one of the key weapons of the world's mass disinformation, and thirdly, that they can afford anything, because they are playing for the bad guys anyway. ukraine is here and the starting positions are here, sorry, the time of our program is coming to an end, i also wanted to ask oleksiy, very briefly, literally 20 seconds, what's up. putin in the occupied territories? this is an extremely important topic that you raised, and here, what is important, we need to work now, because putin's election is a little less than two months away, and here is the thesis that the election is illegitimate precisely because of the occupied territories, and putin, we can to be called there at the beginning of april exclusively as a self-proclaimed president, we need to work for the world already now, to demand it

first of all from the big ones'. players from the united states, germany, great britain, the netherlands and a few more, we have to put a full stop, sorry, i have a regulation. oleksiy koshel, oleg sahakyan and volodymyr tsybulko were guests of our program today. thank you, gentlemen, for participating in the program. during our program, we conducted a survey, we asked you whether you trust anonymous telegram channels. let's see how our viewers voted on tv, 6% trust 94. no, the level is high enough distrust and the same results on the youtube channel six trust 94% no, we are putting an end to our program, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your attention, i wish you all the best, take care of yourself and your family, goodbye.