pavlo lakiychuk, head of security programs at the strategy 21 center for global studies, was with us, and at 9 o'clock there was a moment of silence for all ukrainians whose lives were cut short by russian aggression. let's observe a moment of silence in memory of the ukrainian military and civilian citizens of ukraine who died in the war started by russia.

greetings, you are watching the svoboda ranok project, my name is oleg galiv, and we will discuss the following topics: it has been almost 20 hours since the il-76 fell in russia, and it is more understandable. did not become, then what is explained by yesterday and what has become clear since yesterday, did the plane take off or land, why will zelenskyy demand an international investigation in this case, and is there any evidence indicating that ukrainian prisoners of war could have been on board? we are looking for answers to these questions further: hitting an industrial facility, damaged residential building and civil infrastructure, these are the consequences of the attack on odesa by russian drones, the regional military administration reported, what is the situation... in the city

as of now. in the russian city of toapse at night the local oil refinery was on fire. this is reported by several russian telegram channels. according to their data, before the fire in the area of ​​the refinery, the sounds of explosions were heard, and in the russian sochi, the local airport did not accept flights in the region, and a plan was announced . what happened? i remind you to subscribe to radio svoboda's youtube channel. likes and comments. this is important for quality content to be popular. in the network. the army of the russian federation attacked odesa tonight with drones , the national police reported that a multi-story building was damaged house and warehouse. there were fires in the affected areas. head of the odesa regional military administration. oleg kiper reported that two people had previously been wounded. one man suffered burns, another was hospitalized with multiple cuts. the odesa city council reports damage to a high-rise building. in

khadzhibey and primorsky districts of the city. according to the air force of ukraine, attack drones were launched from the black sea in the direction of odessa by the army of the russian federation. in total, air defense forces shot down 11 bombers drones from 14. kateryna bankova, rfe/rl's correspondent from odesa, is with us on the live broadcast. katya, i congratulate you , tell me how the night passed in odessa, what is known about the high-rise building damaged by the attack, and has the information about the victims changed? oleg, good morning, literally a week ago i went on the air of svoboda ranok, literally from this very place, and talked about the same house that was hit by a drone attack. and today i'm here again, and it just so happened that he was hurt by the drone again the house itself. well, actually, i'll tell you everything in order. yesterday there were indeed two waves of attacks, during the first, a semi-occupied multi-story building was damaged, several apartments burned down there, and warehouses were also damaged.

the premises of the furniture shop, it was quite powerful there, and the fire, from the blast wave , a man who was passing by on a bicycle was injured there, he had cut wounds, well , another man was injured in the building, who suffered burns, fortunately there were no victims, and after a certain time there was a rebound, but unfortunately, not for long, because again the siren was blaring and there were reports of a draw again. for the second time, houses in the center of the city were damaged, this is what i talked about at the beginning of my presentation, those houses that were damaged last week, that is, people have just recovered from the last time when their houses were damaged again, here they reported four victims, also fortunately there were no victims, but by the way the house was seriously damaged, i will show them now, i hope it will be visible, you can probably see

that there are windows that were covered with plywood since last time, and somewhere plywood was removed from the windows yesterday night, well, glass. i mean, of course there is nowhere, and you can see the cars that have been closed since last time, well, this is what the city center looks like now, and yes, yesterday, by the way, one car was completely burned, and several more were damaged by debris , one high-rise building near me was also damaged, lucky there because... that drone that fell didn't detonate, so it wasn't as bad as it could have been. in the defense forces, they said, in the defense forces they said that that the drones were flying at a critically low speed and height, which of course made it very

difficult for our air defense personnel, but in fact, even in spite of this, they shot down 11 drones out of 14, although one of them was shot down. over mykolayiv oblast and 10 over odesa oblast. this is actually all from odessa. oleg, i give you the floor. thank you very much, katya. kateryna bankova, rfe/rl's odesa correspondent, about the situation in the area after the night attack by russian forces. well, to the main topic of the broadcast. almost a day has passed since the il-76 military plane crashed in the belgorod region of russia. and certainly so it is not known whether he was beaten. if so, who shot it down, and most importantly, were there ukrainian military personnel on it. captured, according to the russian ministry of defense. the ukrainian authorities and the military leadership have not yet made an official statement about who shot down the plane and who was on board. in his evening address , president volodymyr zelenskyi said that ukraine will demand an international investigation into this situation. summoned umerov, zaluzhny, shaptala budanov and

malyuk and reported on the situation with the plane and the exchange. it is obvious that the russians are playing with with the lives of ukrainian prisoners, with the feelings of relatives and with emotions. of our society, it is necessary to establish all the clear facts as much as possible, given that the plane crash happened on russian territory beyond our control. facts are the main word now, the chief of staff and general staff for the use of air forces heard. gur is engaged in finding out the fate of all prisoners. the security service of ukraine is investigating all the circumstances. i instructed the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine to inform the partners. regarding available data in ukraine, ours the state will insist on an international investigation. tonight , the air force of ukraine also responded to the situation with the il-76 aircraft. commander mykola olyschuk did not directly say whether or not the ukrainian military shot down any aerial target on the territory of russia that day. however, he said that

they have the right to do so. leschuk also says that russia is trying to discredit ukraine in the eyes of the world in order to reduce its support. forces do everything to get the enemy, both in heaven and on earth. you read our reports: a lot russian planes with their crews will never be able to terrorize our people, they have been destroyed. we have more and more tools and opportunities to get the enemy where he does not expect it. during the day of january 24, 2024, frantic russian propaganda directs a fake flow of information to an external audience, trying to discredit. ukraine in the eyes of the world community. the goal is obvious: they want to reduce international support for our state. not work. ukraine has the right to protection and the right to destroy the aggressor's means of air attack. i will also recall the statement of the general staff of ukraine after the crash of the ill-76 plane.

they said that the armed forces of ukraine closely monitor the launch points of missiles and the logistics of their delivery in order to destroy them and will continue to do so. recorded intensive. shelling is directly related to the increase in the number of military transport planes that have been heading to the belgorod airfield lately. taking this into account, the armed forces of ukraine will continue to take measures to destroy means of delivery, control of airspace to destroy the terrorist threat, including in the belgorod-kharkiv direction. yesterday it became known about the fall of the il-76 military transport plane in the korochan district of the belgorod region of russia. around 11 a.m., one of the first to report this was the russian telegram channel ridovka, who is called close to the russian security forces. the disappearance of the plane was also reported by russian state television channels and agencies with reference to the ministry of defense of russia. they said that the plane shot down the ukrainian military, allegedly with two rockets from the territory of the village of liptsi, kharkiv

region. there were allegedly six crew members on board, as well as 65 ukrainian prisoners of war who were allegedly being transported for exchange, and three more russian military personnel who were escorting them. the russian ministry of defense says that everyone on board has died. the main intelligence directorate of ukraine confirmed to the ministry of defense a few hours later that the exchange of prisoners was planned, however... it did not take place, the message did not confirm or deny the downing of the plane ukrainian forces, however, stated that the russian side did not inform ukraine about the number of vehicles, routes and forms of delivery of prisoners and called it planned actions of russia. here is an excerpt from that statement. the landing of a transport aircraft in the 30-kilometer combat zone cannot be safe and in any case must be discussed by both sides, because otherwise it endangers the entire exchange process. based on this, we may be talking about planned and deliberate actions of the russian federation with the aim of destabilizing the situation in

ukraine and the weakening of international support for our state. kostyantyn krivylap, ex-testing engineer of the antonov design bureau, aviation expert joins the broadcast of svoboda ranok. i welcome you. congratulations. thank you for finding the opportunity and time. let's still focus on the facts, from what is known since yesterday. what evidence is there that the plane was shot down and is it possible to talk about it with 100% certainty. absolutely correctly said, what facts do we have? we have the first fact, that it did not fall like that, yes, this is a fact, the second, we have an understanding and the fact that there was no exchange of prisoners of war, this is the second fact, the third fact is that russia and russian propagandists are literally there in 15 minutes. after the plane crash , there was already a statement by a member of the state duma that ukrainians were killing their own people there. and the fact that later

ishmimontam, well, apparently, pulled out of her pocket a list of prisoners of war who were supposed to be on this plane, who , according to her, were there, in some strange way she had, well, this causes such surprise, there is a statement ... that american intelligence has no facts, which would confirm that there were ukrainian prisoners of war on board this plane, these are the facts, there is the fact of guru's statement, there is the fact of the statement of our general staff, what are those last two statements, well, they are not, they say something, but read in these situations, between the terms, well, i don't want to, but mr. kostyantyn, it should be noted for the sake of balance that the ukrainian side confirms that the exchange of prisoners did not... take place, but it was supposed to happen, yes, i said it, this is the second fact , which we have, that the guru's statement

that there should be an exchange, and he didn't, didn't happened, here, here are the facts that we have, then all kinds of versions begin, assumptions begin, theories begin, and i don't know how long it will take for us to find out something, for sure, but what... well, everyone notices the fact that where are these people, well, i ’m not talking about the procedure for transporting prisoners of war, because it causes such surprise to some, such a number of people sitting on the plane, there are no passenger seats, there are such landing benches on the sides, yes, well, these are not armchairs either, they are such, well, something like that. how women sit under the entrances, there are such and such benches,

and there are no remains of bodies, because everyone who had anything to do with plane crashes, with the investigation, with communication there with people who were engaged in such a case, they know that there everything is very specific, and people there in gray came out afterwards. let's go into this in more detail now, we have time to discuss, but still from the footage that we've shown on the screen, that's online, from what you've at least seen, the video that appeared or not the first time the plane falls, in fact, this one after the explosion and the fire that started, is it possible to make any preliminary conclusions, whether it was really a downing, or it could be some technical problem, maybe the plane malfunctioned in the air because of this it fell, is it possible draw some conclusion, he was landing, he was taking off, maybe, i don't know what... what can you state for yourself from what you saw, at least as an aviation expert? well, the fact that

he did not fall by his will, it is clear, yes, whether he was knocked down or well there was no destruction of the self-propelled aircraft, but if you noticed there, when he was already entering the picket there, something moved away from him, something came off, maybe it was some wing of gruzalyuk, maybe it was something... but he doesn’t have such things on the outside, let’s say, parts that can come off just like that, this is a fairly reliable, fairly proven aircraft, they were produced there... the tashkent aircraft factory produced almost thousands, that is hundreds, 800-900 aircraft somewhere , in russia there are about 100 of them, a little more, there are also special planes, well that is, this is a serial tested aircraft that does not have a long flight time and has a lot of operational experience, but i really

can't imagine that there are any such serious ones. technical problems , it does not have the best aerodynamics, but it has it, it has aerodynamic quality there, that is , after stopping two engines, it can still fly there for 8, 9, 10 km while planning, that is , i do not think that it some technical reason, an internal explosion, well, then there would be a different destruction, there would be another one there, things would be different all these parts of the fisel are scattered. although, when they say that there is 1.5 km, then maybe it is something similar to the fact that there was an internal, internal failure, that is, the version that there could have been a knock-down from the outside, this is actually a version that has the right to exist , which is more or less logical and similar to the truth, please tell me, if we are talking about this

plane, could the ukrainian side know what the actual route of this plane would be, by the way? according to russia , the alleged prisoners of war were delivered to the place of exchange, how does it work in aviation? ukraine understands in fact, what is happening in the airspace of the neighboring country, and essentially the aggressor country. well, this is a military transport aircraft, it is everything that concerns military transport aviation, they are trying to close all these movements there, but intelligence is working and what concerns weapons, especially such weapons as the s-300, it is... tracked, but i got the impression that this event was to some extent unexpected for our military, well, not even the leadership, but those sleepers who are engaged in exactly these matters, and their reaction it was very neat, very long,

because the questions specifically related to prisoners of war, and there it was necessary to find out, and why not... there is no exchange, what reasons, what problems, but according to all the protocols that have already been worked out at this time, it is usually reported by which route and in what way the prisoners of war will be sent for exchange, because neither side trusts any other, mediators are mediators, but everything must be checked, and if there were prisoners of war, then we should know, our intelligence should i would have known about it, so i believe that our anti-aircraft guns did it, well, it doesn’t sound bad to me, i prefer the version that it was shot down by such russian anti-aircraft vehicles, in fact, there is an interesting point here, if it was shot down by russian forces air defense, can

this indicate that such aircraft as the il-76, for example, is not for russia. of enormous value, that they can afford to actually shoot them down in order to conditionally, as you say, i don't know, to arrange something there and so on, or after all , what could it be done for? well, that's it watches lavrov speak in new york , tells us what scoundrels we are there, killing poor grandparents in the donetsk market, and reports that we shot down more prisoners of war here, for the russians in such a case... the cost of living of the pilots of this plane , the crew there a very large crew, because it is necessary to carry out these unloading and loading operations, there are six to seven people there, and this is the picture, the loss of the plane, well, there are 100 more such planes, they fly out their resource, they are already there on

the approach, they try to make new ones planes, but this is, well, another matter, you can talk about it. to tell you more, so this is not of any value to them, we see how many military equipment and people die there in avdiivka, bakhmut and other clashes in other cities there, this is of no importance to them, the main thing for them is to create a picture, and this picture they know how to create, probably the best specialists in the world. mr. kostyantyn, i would also like to clarify, at the beginning of our conversation you mentioned an interesting point, that in this... there is no such military transport il-76 special places, in fact, where people could sit, that is, they are not intended for transportation that understood people, in other words, el-76 is usually not applicable. for transportation, for example, personnel only for the purpose of transporting military transport various equipment, it can transport people, but

imagine a cabin in it, this section of the cabin, here on the sides, on the left and right there are such benches as they are called, they are general, they are adapted for paratroopers to sit there on that, on parachutes and on that, what do they have there... by themselves, that is , there are no such things as passenger seats there, there is a simple horizontal surface on which you can sit, well, maybe it’s for prisoners of war there and they didn’t try anything there to lay such a mattress so that it would be better to sit there, you can understand that, they are barbarians , but there are no chairs like that, there is still a very important point, it will concern that... it is possible to track right now, which way this plane was moving because yesterday the public began to write from the first minutes that it could fly from egypt, i.e. there were many different versions, assumptions

, to track, it is possible in general, from where and where he flew with the help of existing systems, well, if he flew with an exclusive transponder, well, that is, the system did not show his stranger, then it can be on the one hand the reason why he was shot down there in front of... the scared belgorod pposhniks, yes, and on the other hand, then he will not be displayed on the flight radar, because the flight radar displays only planes that go with connected transports, that is, essentially this particular plane it is currently impossible to specifically track the route, if without a transponder, he most likely flies without a transporter, then i don’t think that it is possible, and intelligence data is possible with the help of ... intelligence data, you can find it out, if they were , then i think we would have been informed about it already, because this is a very significant argument that immediately opens up, well

, cuts off many fantastic versions, well, when it is known where he flew from, either from egypt , then from moscow, then from chkalovsk, then from where else, there he went on a landing and took off, well, it is unknown, sir konstantin, i thank you for your analysis, konstantin krovolap, from the tests of the antonov design bureau and an aviation expert, a guest of our broadcast, we talked about the versions that today surround the downfall of the il-76 plane in russia, where, according to the russian side, there could be ukrainian prisoners of war, but ukraine has not yet confirmed or denied this information. journalists of the radio freedom scheme project have established the names of the members of the russian il-76 crew that crashed in the belgorod region. the death of at least three of them their relatives confirmed. this is how the 36-year-old commander died. stanisslav bezubkina was confirmed by his wife marika bezubkina. she said that she was informed about this by the russian ministry of defense. she says that she last talked to her husband on january 24

around 7:30 a.m. moscow time. at that time, he was supposed to fly out of moscow. the wife also confirmed the death of the 38-year-old flight engineer andriy piluyev. she noted that she knows about his death, but official detailed information has not yet been provided. journalists found the schemes in open sources data that he awarded. a medal for the return of crimea and for participation in hostilities in syria. the death of sturman oleksiy vysokin was confirmed by his cousin, who said that she learned about it from his parents. under the photo of another il-76 crew member, on-board radio operator ihor sablinskyi , comments appeared on the social network expressing condolences for his death. the flight was also supposed to be serviced by flight engineer serhiy zhytenyev, but so far the charts have not been able to properly confirm his death. place of service five crew members of the 117th military transport aviation regiment. also , information was published by the main intelligence department of the ministry of defense of ukraine in march 2022, indicating the names of these five in the list of

servicemen of the 117th separate transport and aviation regiment. the military part of this regiment is located in the orenburg region, and the regiment was engaged in the maintenance of military vehicles carrying special cargo for the material support of the army of the russian federation, the journalists of scheme established. or could there be 76 ukrainian prisoners of war on board? there is still no answer to this question, and the information coming from moscow remains unconfirmed. the ukrainian main intelligence agency confirmed that the exchange of prisoners between russia and ukraine was indeed supposed to take place on january 24, i.e. yesterday, but did not take place and added that currently ukraine does not have reliable and comprehensive information about who exactly was on board the plane and in what amount about four hours after the news of the event appeared. chief editor of the russian state agency margarita simonyan published alleged lists of ukrainian prisoners who were probably on board the plane.

the ukrainian side has not yet confirmed the authenticity of these lists, however, the russian opposition publication meduza and the worters project, which publishes data on ukrainians in russian captivity, noticed that the list from simonyan contains the name of at least one military man who could have been exchanged earlier, to which simonyan responded with an additional message that some knowledgeable people, it was a quote, really found one last name in in the previous lists for the exchange, which took place on january 3, but this man was allegedly not exchanged at the last moment, the main intelligence agency of the country, which deals with issues of prisoner exchanges, did not comment on either the lists or the names in them. the named source of the ukrainian publication new voice in the air force of ukraine says that they are sure that there were no ukrainian prisoners of war on board. the main intelligence agency added that ukraine fulfilled all agreements for the independent exchange of prisoners, russian prisoners were delivered to the agreed place, however, the russian side did not guarantee the safety of the ukrainian prisoners, and the ukrainian

side was not warned about the need for security. security of the airspace in the area of ​​the city of belgorod in a certain period of time, as was done repeatedly in the past. ukrainian soldiers who were released from russian captivity also draw attention to the fact that three escorts for such a number of prisoners of war, as stated by the russian ministry of defense, if we analyze their statements, is not enough and usually they are escorted in the number of approximately one overseer of two prisoners. this, in particular, says military officer maksym kolesnikov, who was released from captivity in february last year. on the air of our colleagues from svoboda. live well, imagine that how three people can control 65 people seated on the plane, and how in the world, what can they do with them? well, i emphasize once again that our prisoners of war are not kept according to the protocols of some geneva convention, no, these are ordinary prison protocols of a special regime, there is a person there for

criminals who commit some serious crimes. crimes of the russian federation, this is the constant presence of armed people, these are people with machine guns, with batons, and here they say that there are only three of them, so how? and in washington, they are not yet ready to give an assessment of the downing of the l-76 plane on the territory of russia. the biloms are told that they currently do not have enough information to draw conclusions. john kirby, coordinator of the national security council of the white house, made such a statement at the briefing. he said that the united states needs to get more information to undermine ... or refute public statements. again, we just don't have enough information to comment on this plane crash that we've seen reports of. we are trying to get more information, but it would be reckless for me to speculate on that. i just don't know the truth of the reports. the ukrainians claim one thing, the russians claim another, and we just don't know enough to comment on it. according to him, the united states is now doing everything possible to gather information on whether there could

be prisoners of war on board the russian ... taka. they are looking for the same confirmation in the international committee of the red cross in ukraine. the spokesman of the organization oleksandr vlasenko told the public that the delegation of the red cross in russia is trying to find out who was on board the il-76 plane. however, there is no information yet. the red cross says that they learn about exchanges of prisoners after the fact, and only participate in exchanges of bodies of the dead. the fall of il-76 in russia is being discussed today, will be discussed, or rather, today. without the un. russia convened a meeting to discuss the downfall of il-76 in the bialhorod region. about this vlaskor informs ukrinform. the meeting will start at midnight kyiv time. at the un headquarters, the minister of foreign affairs of the russian federation, sergey lavrov, said that russia demands an urgent meeting of the un security council regarding the downing of the il-76. lavrov wanted to take part in it personally. however , france, which chairs the security council in january, rejected the request and scheduled a meeting for

thursday. experts in the situation with the downfall of the russian ill-76 plane draw parallels with other air disasters in recent years. for an example with the downing of the ukrainian mau plane near tehran in 2020, as well as the crash of the boeing mh-17, which was shot down in the sky over the donetsk region in 2014. although they note that it is difficult to obtain reliable data without having access to the crash site. thus, aviation expert anatolii khrapchynskyi reminds us that after by iranian forces of the flight of the ukrainian company mao near tehran, ukraine still has no understanding of the disaster. therefore, the expert concludes that one should not hope for an investigation with side of russia. boeing 737 of ukrainian airlines, i remind you, was shot down on january 8, 2020 near tehran. for several days, iranian officials denied this only after statements from other countries, including british, canadian and american intelligence, the iranian president.