a word detective for the night, but now the verdict program by serhiy rudenko, good evening, we are from ukraine, glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health, for the next hour we will talk about ukraine, about the world , about war. about our victory. today in the program. russian speculation surrounding the downfall of the il-76. the fsb may be involved in the disaster. were there passengers on the plane? the kremlin threatens the third world. putin ordered to look for russian real estate abroad. who will undertake deputization russia? corruption during the war. seven officials of the ministry of defense received suspicions. the authorities responded to business complaints. regarding oppression

by law enforcement officers, about this and other things, during the next hour we will talk with our guests, the chairman of the board of the non-governmental organization center for combating corruption vitaliy shabunin, serhii grabskyi, a colonel of the reserve of the armed forces of ukraine and journalist roman tsimbalyuk. however, before we start our big talk, let's watch a video of a large-scale fire at the rosneft oil refinery in the city. tuabse krasnodar region of the russian federation, according to mass media, the plant was attacked by drones of the security service of ukraine. let's see. one fire. вторая выезжает, куда беханить

, my lord, my lord, quickly, well, the voiceover of this video was just incredible, agree, friends, for those who are currently watching us on youtube and facebook, please like this video about... vote in our survey, today we ask you about whether you expect an objective investigation of the downfall of il-76, this means the il-76 that crashed yesterday in the belgorod region, and now russia is trying to torpedo ukraine with information about this plane. if you count on an objective investigation of the fall of il-76, everything is quite simple on youtube, yes, no, or your answer option, write in the co'. if you

are sitting in front of the tv watching us on tv please pick up the phone and vote if yes then 0800 211 381 no 0800 211 382 all calls to these numbers are free call us it's important to know your opinion we have the chairman of the board of the anti-corruption center, vitaly shabonin, mr. vitaly, i congratulate you and thank you for being with us today. good evening. let 's talk about corruption, because corruption is now being talked about both in the ministry of defense of ukraine and in nabu, and corrupt people are being shown, they are caught all over ukraine, and the case of the hrenkevychs is illustrative. in december 23, the head of the office of the president of ukraine andriy yermak assured that now in ukraine, more than ever, there is a political will to fight corruption, and once again... earlier zelensky himself

said that there is zero tolerance for corruption. how would you characterize the current state of the fight against corruption, compared to the previous authorities, since you have long been watching how all these schemes work, and under what conditions they work, and to what extent this tolerance corresponds to zero, one, two or three units. a global issue, like all of you. it is difficult to compare, ukraine has never been in a full-scale war, so it is difficult to compare with the previous authorities, however, i want to remind you that 60% of the national budget - this is the help of the western allies, and to steal this money is just a shot in the head, maybe it is, maybe a corrupt infrastructure has been built, maybe... such a rejection

of corruption by a society that is at war, all of them, or maybe a coincidence of all these factors, led to that objectively systemic corruption is less. especially after the change in the leadership of the ministry of defense, because before this change it was precisely where the largest budget was, which was the ministry of defense, that there was theft, theft is already obvious, and this can be seen from the latest arrests and investigations and journalists and law enforcement officers, and you know, i wouldn't compare the scale here, because objectively the financial flow decreased, i would compare the immorality, like stealing during the war. in the ministry of defense - this is a moral bottom, that is, such a person cannot be forgiven, and i would like to remind you that the leadership of the previous ministry of defense was dismissed out of good will, unfortunately, by the current authorities, under

the pressure of journalistic investigations, from the first investigation about yaits leznikov to his seven months have passed since the release. very important months during which it is not easy, no they simply and not only stole purchases , for example, from jackets, and what is worse from weapons and ammunition, and did nothing to destroy this corruption, moreover, many other important processes of the ministry of defense did not move, without which, which cost us a lot lives therefore, on the good side, you know, for the audience, the ministry of defense has two pools of money for procurement, two parts of money for procurement, with one money you buy, you buy everything that does not kill, uniforms, food,

fuel, equipment, thermal imagers, helmets, finally headphones are active, these are these now bought this money was transferred to the so-called state-owned operator tilu, this is a newly created purchasing agency with good procedures, with a good team that already shows good prices, and this gives hope that this pool of money will not be stolen, i.e. a repetition with reznikov's eggs at 17 hryvnias or with the jackets that you see on the screen now, which are winter, this will not happen again, this is mine... excessive optimism is not a statement, we are watching these purchases, because despite the good will of the agency team , we already see how like those people who were trolling tolerated corruption both in the ministry of defense and in the armed forces,

remained in their positions and are now beginning to oppose these new, new rules and procedures. a little more complicated, i.e. we , we are cautious optimists in the central committee of the central committee about the money for televisa purchase, the story is more complicated with arms purchases, and there is the same defense procurement agency , that is, this is the agency that purchases weapons, unfortunately, so far there is nothing new in this agency manager, and the agency is actually managed by the old management. yes, the focus of the new leadership of the ministry of defense and experts does not give this team to disperse as it was under the previous minister, but at the same time expect effective procurement from the people who stole from them

before, so i will tell you calmly that i will be optimistic about this money when there is a new leader with an impeccable reputation. this is about purchases in the defense industry, where we also predict that there will be theft and where we see that they are stealing, this is the next largest flow of money after the defense industry, this is reconstruction, and you see a lot of investigations, where the authorities are at different levels, now, by the way , more locally, a knife, than a national knife, steals on the reconstruction of the building. infrastructure, roads, all that after our victory will still be actively developed if billions of dollars go, so right now we are trying to stop it, to create such rules under which theft will be very difficult, that is, if we

risk it, we cautious optimists about the money of the ministry of defense, at least those that are not for weapons, we see. in construction purchases, because it is easiest to steal there, i bought concrete there for twice as much, and it can be 40% of the cost of the entire construction there, and... because it is not necessary to show estimates , it is very difficult to find out this price, to see the prices of materials, somewhere we are forced to do it directly through parliamentary appeals, asking for help from people's deputies, not everyone wants to show their prices, as you understand, so somewhere it is, in relation to other departments , objectively, money has become much less, even if someone really wanted to leave, then there is simply nothing to steal from, is it true? mr. vitaly, this is kostin, the prosecutor general of ukraine, he

is talking about the results of the fight against corruption in the ministry of defense, and several ministry officials have already been brought to justice, i suggest listening to this synchronicity and continuing the conversation. under the procedural guidance of prosecutors, specialized prosecutor's offices in the field of defense, on suspicion of corruption. criminal offenses were reported to seven officials of the ministry of defense, among them odious officials who, according to the investigation, purchased low-quality bulletproof vests, bulletproof vests. one case concerning them has already been transferred to the higher anti-corruption court. for procedural management prosecutors of the specialized prosecutor's office in the field of defense are investigating two more proceedings on the facts of the purchase of low-quality body armor and means of personal protection in the amount of more than uah 1.4 billion. mr. vitaly, i am most interested in these situations, have you not seen these large flows of money, this is a large flow,

one billion there are 400 million and with low-quality body armor, and the grynkevichs there are 1 billion, in my opinion 500 million, if i'm not mistaken, that is, these are huge sums during the war at a time when you are constantly borrowing this money from the west, no no one saw that they were going the wrong way, they were going to the wrong people, or everyone saw everything. everything was arranged for everyone, everyone was in the scheme, and now they spread their hands, they say, well, listen, we put seven officials there, then we must put those who did not see it, i treat your audience with respect, so i will leave the conclusion to them, i will a few facts, the most important of which is that there were no proceedings in the public field, there was no detention , and even more so no... suspicions of the officials of the ministry of defense regarding the scandal with eggs by the resniks,

none, when the journalist yury nikolov, well , he was later supported by his colleagues, got involved in that dunghill of infernal purchases of the ministry of defense, then of course the authorities ran, because there it was impossible not to do something, there it was impossible not to investigate, there was too much scandal, and a series others after... whom, therefore, with all due respect to the law enforcement agencies, to mr. prosecutor general, and you who were blind before this, or without journalists, we cannot do it again. ae, the question is rhetorical, but let your viewers make their own conclusions, what brought you to responsibility? one thing transferred to the court, it has not yet been prosecuted, one case, of the top figures, well, significant figures, about whom there is... it makes sense to talk about the previous leadership of the ministry of defense, we are talking only about the deputy, about

the deputy minister and about the head of the department dasha pavalov and khmelnytskyi , the head of the department, who are sitting like that, but this is a preventive measure, and they were not imprisoned, we are taking the case of the hrenkevychs with more noise, there are two episodes, actually khabar, everything is very simple there, but as for the case... tender, well, for now , yes, so far the evidence base is available of law enforcement agencies, which surfaced when hrenkevich was elected as a remand, well, i will put it very mildly, he wants very much, he wants better, and i still expect changes in the defense because of hrenkevich's suspicions, because somehow it turns out that hrenkevich somehow this story was made. somehow , well, it doesn’t quite stick, well, i’ll remind you about

the food tender schemes bought by one of the beneficiaries, the hotels in croatia, i think it’s worth 20 million euros, there also seems to be no special movements for this, for this money, i’m not the only one here i have a claim to the bodies of the elderly law enforcement officers, who actively show their activities despite the fact that all the time before... before journalistic investigations, they were silent , they did not see anything, i have complaints against anti-corruption bodies, well, the anti-corruption bureau, first of all, friends, we protected you for a long time, corruption in... in the war should be your priority, we don't see much of your activity yet, that's why i have a big request to the law enforcement bloc and to the authorities: friends, let's demonstrate to the world that corruption is being fought in ukraine, primarily the government and law enforcement agencies, there is no need to prove that journalists are doing someone else's

work again, there is already enough work, let's finally try without them. by the way, rustem umyero, the minister of defense of ukraine, said that there is a concrete result , 1.5 billion hryvnias, which appear in the corruption scheme for the purchase of artillery shells for the armed forces, have been returned to the budget, and the same story has been going on for a long time with these one and a half billion hryvnias, the head of one of the main departments of the ministry of defense was previously detained, on the case the sbu works in cooperation and with the assistance of the ministry of defense, the procedural manager... the investigation is carried out by the prosecutor general's office , these are the changes we warned about, it is important not only to find those guilty of abuses, but also to return what was lost. we continue to work. mr. vitaly, when we talk about corruption of this caliber, who bears political responsibility for such corruption? this is a good question, let's get to those one and a half

billion first, it's really a good result. unfortunately, there is very little in the information field, what exactly is it about? then no details i'm waiting it will be possible in the communication of the prosecutor general’s office to provide more details, because the truth is interesting about which contract we are talking about, i will simply remind you that the foreign and dead debutorka amounted to 33 billion hryvnias, that is, it was money that was paid for goods to contractors, mainly abroad withdrawn, and for which the army did not receive anything, 1.5 billion is cool, it is a good step. go ahead, i wrote, i will remind you that under resnikava, we were talking about 33 billion, let's see who is responsible for the corruption hell of prireznikov in procurement the ministry of defense, the person who appointed him did not fire him, this is vertical, this is vertical, and this

is the vertical of the president, the minister of defense, this is the vertical of the president, and i understand that the president has a lot of things, i respect that i bet, and it’s true, but when the journalists spilled the story about the eggs at uah 17 per piece, where were the documents, where were the contracts, where everything was obvious, well, okay, you didn’t understand that time, or your advisors were there didn't understand, or i don't know there, well hands, i don't know, it's just an estimate was in all the media of the world, then the projectiles were not delivered. the investigation of the ukrainian truth, then the investigation about the jackets of the same nikolov and then the investigation into the investigation, we lost 7 months, so the responsibility definitely lies with the one who appoints, a separate question to the parliament, especially to the defense committee, for 7

months people did not notice corruption to the investigation, and another 7'. these profile deputies after him did not place corruption in the ministry of defense, despite the fact that, it is true, journalists still, still taught, more moreover, reznikov used a whole committee to lie to everyone that everything was fine, and the committee did not say anything, so the political responsibility is clear, the president and, as for me, the profile committee, which, for god's sake, is with reznikov in corruption in the purchase of jackets. there and a whole series of other investigations, it was not the profile committee that cracked down, the people 's deputies from the anti-corruption committee, the head of anastasia radina and the deputy of the economic committee, yaroslav zheliznyak, who, in theory, should not have been involved in this, because it is the responsibility of the defense committee, and such is the story. thank you, mr. vitaly, thank you for including me, i was glad

to see you, and i wish you all the best. friends, we are working live on the tv channel. and facebook, for those who are currently watching us also on our platforms on youtube and there, please like this video, subscribe to our pages and vote in our poll, today we ask you this, do you count on objective investigation of the crash of il-76 in russia, yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, either yes or no, write your comments under this video, if you watch us on tv, pick up the phone and vote if yes 0800 2011 is 381 no 0800 211 382 all calls to these numbers are free so keep calling we want your opinion. stay with us later. grab military expert, participant in peacekeeping missions, reserve colonel of the armed forces of ukraine. mr. serhiy, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our broadcast today. my greetings, nice to see you.

come on, let's start with the il-76 disaster and the latest data, because yesterday russia really pushed this information very seriously history, and of course there were many questions about how we react to this, whether it is right or wrong, whether we have data about what happened to the plane that fell in the belgorod region, whether there were prisoners of war there ukrainian, whether there were prisoners of war there, andrii yusov, representative of the main intelligence department of the ministry of defense, in a comment to radio liberty said that russian high-ranking officials were supposed to fly on the il-76, after the plane crashed , only five bodies were taken to the local morgue. let's listen to what mr. yusev said. really had on board there are several vips from the military and political representation of the aggressor state, but at the last moment their names

are known and will be named and the materials will be provided as part of the international investigation, but at the last moment the fsb actually ordered them not to get on this board and use other modes of transport. and it is also known that the representatives of the russian ministry of emergency situations, who arrived at the scene of the events, were in fact... expelled from there by representatives of the fsb and the military and were not given the opportunity to carry out an inspection according to the protocol place and localization of this trot. mr. sergey, given the information that we all have, what can you say about this story, this is another special operation of the fsb, this is a story that allows russia to speculate on this and continue to do so. a terrorist from ukraine, how to consider this whole story with the il-76 disaster? well, you know, i don't even know how

to rate it, because this story really annoys me. this attention, which we pay to the routine accident of a russian plane on the territory of the russian federation, is on this does not deserve and it is necessary. understand, and here we must emphasize, i understand that we are dealing with such a sophisticated or specially fabricated information and psychological operation, here we must emphasize the following: the plane crashed on the territory of the russian federation, in the airspace of the russian federation. what was in that plane? well, i'm sorry, it's not our business anymore, it's the business... of the russian federation, if we, listen, paid attention to every such accident, well, i'm sorry, we would only deal with that, and what exactly does the russian federation want federation, and here the emphasis must

be placed on the fact that we, as a state that is in a state of, well, one cannot say war, armed conflict with the russian federation, have nothing to do with this, and even more, it must be emphasized that in any... . in case of objective circumstances, the country has the right to destroy any aircraft of the country of the aggressor, which is in the access zone of our air defense forces, and to conduct, you know, such a very aggressive, i repeat, very aggressive precisely informational and psychological campaign, where, well, actually turn to common sense, because there are certain specialists who understand how it is carried out, if we assume, and excuse me... for more than a day , such data cannot be given, that is, we see that this bubble is bursting, er, who can explain, by the way, in the main intelligence department, there are specialists who

deal with this, what does the term deconfliction mean, in such a situation, in general in international relations, and to put the main emphasis on this, i will repeat once again, we pay too much attention to each downed such the plane, i would say, more attention deserved shot down a50 and il-22. and than this plane, what really happened there, because in any case it is either incompetence or a crime of the russian federation, and it is from this point of view that this situation should be considered, but not so much attention should be paid to it. we are paying so much attention to this situation, solely because russia is trying to convene the un security council this evening and accuse ukraine of complicity. what do they think about this terrorist act, because they are bringing ukrainian prisoners of war there, who are supposedly ukraine shot there in the air in the belgorod

region, president zelenskyi. says that ukraine will insist on an international investigation into the situation surrounding the downing of this plane. let's listen to what zelensky said. it is obvious that the russians are playing with the lives of ukrainian prisoners, with the feelings of their relatives and with the emotions of our society. it is necessary to establish all the clear facts as much as possible. given that the plane crashed on the russian side. facts - this is the main word, the chief commissar and the general staff for the use of air forces have now heard. gur deals with finding out the fate of all prisoners. mr. serhiy, what should have been ukrainian, what should have been ukrainian counter-propaganda for this ipso, i.e., was it necessary to explain something, or was it necessary to deploy some kind of informational

response, because... the russians immediately started working on it, literally in 30 minutes after russian propagandists had already seen message boxes in pavlo, which they began to distribute, message boxes that were then quoted by absolutely all media, by the way, and some ukrainian ones, well, mr. serhii, let’s do it i outlined with clear lines that we have some problems with the connection, now we will fix it. one more time to contact serhii grabskyi, sorry, dear viewers, but this is a live broadcast, so anything can happen. today, as i said, the un security council, at the insistence of the russian side, must consider the issue of the il-76 disaster in the belgorod region, and once again we include serhii grabskyi. mr. serhiy, once again give me this communication. nothing, the connection is ours, what we cannot, what we cannot

influence. so, i will repeat myself once again, ukrainian the reaction should have been as follows, let's say this , according to open sources: we have to state that the plane crash happened on russian territory, we have to state that the accident happened outside the zone of our control, i emphasize the accident, it has not been proven that ukrainian forces were used there air defense equipment, even if it happened in... this plane is a perfectly legitimate target of the russians on the russian side and should be shot down under any circumstances, as far as the possible, i emphasize, possible and not proven, and now i have very large doubts that they were there, according to my information, there was no such person there, we had to state that russia carried out another terrorist act in this way, ah, because it did so without notification from the ukrainian side, without

notification. the so-called third party that mediates these processes, whether it's the red cross, whether it's the united arab emirates, whether it's qatar or whatever power that's doing it, they didn't ensure the safety of the personnel that were on that plane, if this staff is considered in part of the humanitarian mission. thus , the russian federation bears full responsibility for what happened. this is war and this plane was not marked. and it was not reported that this aircraft was on a humanitarian mission. thus, any such aircraft is considered a legitimate military target. second, if even one of our prisoners of war was there along with some military cargo, i emphasize that this is an assumption that has a probability of 1-2% and no more. thus, we are dealing with another russian war crime federation, which consists in the fact that they

used prisoners of war as alive. shield, that is, we are dealing with a violation of the laws of warfare, and this is again the russian federation. to hope that, of course, we should have said that we demand a fair investigation and to find out all the circumstances, but you yourself understand very well that to hope that russia will allow someone to conduct some kind of neutral investigation is, i'm sorry, vain hopes, if so very... very in such soft words, even more, and this it was noted by you, including that the russian federation immediately drove away from the disaster site those who bear a direct obligation to provide, including first medical aid, in case someone survived. the fsb, the ministry of defense of the russian federation simply does not physically have the strength and means to provide such assistance. such...