when even the investigative team had not yet arrived there. there is still a proposal to find out which missiles and launchers were used. let's prepare an appeal to the congress of the united states of america and the bundestag of germany, so that the deputies finally realize who they are funding, who they are helping, this is a nazi ... regime fed by biden, scholz, other politicians, they must realize their responsibility, and the deputies of the parliaments must announce to them impeachment, let's say about it and inform the national parliaments of our position, and right there, i.e. again, only hours passed after the plane fell, the chairman of the committee on defense of the state duma, kartopolo, told a lot of details.

and reminds again even at the moment when they tell that we need to understand what kind of missiles there are, no, the potato hunter already knows everything, a second il-76 plane was flying behind him, which was carrying about 80 more prisoners of war, it managed to be turned around, the leadership of ukraine was well aware of the upcoming exchange, was informed about how the prisoners would be delivered, but the il-76 plane was... hit by three missiles of the anti-aircraft missile complex or the patriot or the german-made arrester, experts will figure it out later, when they study the crash site directly. well, on this occasion, even russian propagandists were very surprised. the only thing is, i don't understand why we have it like this, deputies comment on all this. of the supreme

council, how do they know all this, i'm just curious, but we have an official press release, the ministry of defense, on what basis do they make statements, well, that's the main question in all this, it is the fact that literally an hour after this plane crash , russian propagandists began to tell that ukraine knew everything and everything on purpose, moreover... this is the main idea that russian propagandists are trying to convey in general and which they promote the most. let's see. they knew about this flight to kyiv no worse than in moscow, and they knew that people would be delivered by air. there is evidence that the previous group of prisoners of war was transported in the same way, even on the same plane, during the exchange on january 3. no surprises were expected. the leadership knew very well that according to the established practice, the military would be transported today. the plane was performing a humanitarian

mission, about which the armed forces were warned in advance. the flight was specially organized without the cover of fighters and means of radio-electronic warfare. that is why the defeat became possible. this was not the first time. a scheme was developed and the route of the study was always reported to the authorities. there is only one question for kyiv: if they did know about ill 76 and were thrown out of their control, was it intentional? andrii yusov, a representative of the main intelligence department of the ministry of defense of ukraine, agreed to speak with us. i congratulate mr. andriy. i congratulate you, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. and if you carefully listen to the statement of the russian ministry of defense and the statements of the most careful of their propagandists, they say that the ukrainian side...

should have known that prisoners would be transported with this plane, because it is as if it is business as usual, but here you go the question is, what is the procedure during the exchanges, and does it provide that the russian authorities should have informed how they are going to transport prisoners in this case to a specific one, and in the end, did they inform that they would be carried by this particular plane? and you have a very high-quality dubbing of moscow officials and propagandists in your stories, to the point where it becomes even a little scary. in relation to the procedure, each time, as a rule , the routes are agreed upon, first of all , the place of the exchange and the territory where the food regime should be established, it was the same this time, from both sides, now it is the sumy direction, according to the agreement of ukraine within the limits of international law of the geneva convention delivered russian prisoners of war by civilian transport and... in fact, everything was

ready for the exchange, from our side, all defense security forces, law enforcement agencies, military administration, everyone was warned, ready, and the regime was quiet. was carried out, and so it was in previous times , despite individual incidents, nuances that occur, especially if the exchanges take place on the contact line itself, but, say, the last time, when on january 3, when the russian invaders used ukrainian prisoners of war by air, they really warned that there would be an abortion and, accordingly, it was necessary to ensure a regime of silence, of course ukraine complied. these conditions were in order to ensure the exchange, this time there was no notification, and bilhorod itself, as a point, was not included in the territory that was subject to a regime of silence, and in general, each time

the transportation of prisoners of war through ukraine is different, and the russians, and of course, a very important aspect here is that they admit that the military aircraft they are using. in the military operations, and this is a military -modified il-76m aircraft with a 23-millimeter anti-aircraft gun in the tail, which was used to drop tanks for the russian strategic aviation, in particular to engers-2 airfields, to drop s-300, s-400 missiles to belohorod region , and ukrainian prisoners of war were allegedly transported by the same plane, which in itself... is already a sign of a war crime, and tell me, maybe something is known specifically about this flight, and actually, what was there at the place of the crash, maybe it also became known, happening right now, on the spot immediately after the fall, representatives of the fsb and the military, who were subordinated in their actions

to this russian special service, the ministry of emergency situations, who arrived on call, were not allowed to enter the territory, according to what happened there. according to the protocol, they did not record it, it is clear that we have monitoring capabilities, as with all of what we saw, it is not clear why bodies or remains of bodies are not shown, if the information is true, admission is not organized maximum exposure of the tails of the plane wreckage , because it would be the basis for a more detailed analysis, preliminary analysis of international... experts, military experts, aviation experts, there is none of this, and a very telling fact is that in fact piskov immediately rejected ukraine's position on the need to create and conduct an international investigation of this incident, this plane wreckage, well, as in in the case of zelenivka,

the position of the aggressor state is very eloquent. well, in general , your assessment of what it could be, well, in general, can you give us any conclusions now? present, it is too early to present the conclusions, but there could be scenarios are completely different, in general, when we talk about bilhorod, the use of this airport for the so-called humanitarian purposes, which they are talking about, sounds very strange, because we recall that the sky is closed there for civil aviation, and what is directly related to what is happening there, it is close to the front line, and it is actually in a state of hostilities, this territory and belgorod region, next to moscow today and crimea, are at the top in terms of saturation with russian air defense and anti-missile defense equipment, as well as groups, according to the calculations of the fzrk, wearable

missile systems, and they are actively used there , and we have already seen the russians shoot down their planes on several occasions, as well as russia and... . and with the report of the russian sources themselves, information is recorded about the work of air defense against ukrainian drones, what they themselves reported, what they informed about. not too big either. something was a little off for us, but, yes, yes, include again, please, so that the other scenarios, such as using, essentially, as human shields, our defenders, prisoners of war, the plane, the 76m, based on their

information on the number of people on board, is only one-third full, loaded, and what else was there then, and and... the transfer of missiles, in particular for the s300, s-400, well, it could very well be such, own information about the number of guards on god, well... in general, the curmudgeon does not receive no criticism, imagine that the moscow invaders put only three guards on board, where there are 65 ukrainian male defenders, well, this would be very, very naive on our part, so this all requires maximum full access, and this can only be done in the format of an international investigation, it is clear that ukraine and russia will not be each other's conclusions now to trust means that we involve third parties, and ukraine is ready for this... it is as open as possible to conduct such an investigation, the position of the aggressor state, unfortunately,

we do not observe such readiness. and literally briefly, is it clear to us yet? where was that plane flying to, was it flying to belgorod or from belgorod? available information, available information is not enough to finally make such a conclusion, so we continue data collection and data processing, and now we will not make a categorical conclusion. thank you very much, andriy yusov, for your comment, it was andriy yusov, the representative of gur of the ministry of defense of ukraine, and now we have another guest on the phone, this is boris babin, doctor of legal sciences, well, representative of the president of ukraine in the autonomous republic of crimea in 2017-2018, i congratulate you, mr. boris, good afternoon, well, you heard a little bit about this... and about the fact that our side was not informed about what they were going

to transport by plane, the very one that the russians are talking about, that the russians did not inform how exactly they will deliver ukrainian prisoners, and in general it is not clear whether there were ukrainian prisoners on this plane, but we can still make , i think, some more or less, you know, conclusions regarding international law. please tell me how the actions of the russians in this case can be qualified according to international law matter, that is, bringing them by military plane, not a warning that they are transporting prisoners of war by plane in the actual combat zone. look, i'm going to analyze this situation from all hypothetical options, because of course you can't tell me personally what really happened there, and very few people can actually prove it at the moment. but we are just simulating hypothetically, there are three options, practically, there are no others, practical, or

there were no prisoners on the plane, or there were prisoners on the plane, only prisoners, or on the third plane option were prisoners and cargo , some kind of military cargo, if there were no prisoners, we have the simple fact that the aggressor state announced that they were killed, this means that this means reprisals, this means that they are declaring that they actually will kill prisoners for downed planes, this is an international crime, such a statement, well, it is actually an attempt to turn prisoners of war into hostages, so again from the same circumstance, that is, you shoot down our planes, and there will be prisoners, if prisoners beat the second hypothetical option, here the main fault of the aggressor is that she violated the convention, which contains a clear prohibition of the article. to keep prisoners in the war zone. keep

prisoners where there is a risk of shelling. the aggressor himself repeatedly stated that bilhorod was allegedly under fire. belgorod airport has been closed for civilian flights for a long time. this means that the aggressor was aware of this, that there is danger in this situation, and therefore any consequences, the destruction of this. such that no matter who knocks him down, they rely on in this situation i am attacking the state. what i would like to add here also from the point of view of international law in this situation. we have a huge problem. for two years, the aggressor refuses to comply with the geneva conventions in terms of reconciliation with ukraine, the patron state. that is, it is a third state that has to perform the function of, let's say, mediator on humanitarian issues. there are a lot of them during the war. so here is the russian federation. unfortunately, well, it can be stated, yes, it constantly refuses to do so, and

unfortunately, neither ukraine nor the partner states have so far been able to force the aggressor state to agree to comply with international law precisely in choosing a mediator state. well, in addition, and next to this question there is the question of, well, let's say this, the short-sightedness of the international committee of the red cross, this is exactly its question, if such processes take place, yes, if there are... processes regarding prisoners, regarding relocation, possible exchange , a simple question arises, and the international committee of the red cross abstracted from this, where its representatives, they should be, they should be... will be at all stages of this process, the question arises why the aggressor does not allow these representatives, i.e. again this is a violation, but i repeat, here the main violation in this hypothetical version, again, is precisely the placement of prisoners of war in the zone of damage, i.e. this is a sufficient factor for them of the russian federation. the third option, when

in addition to prisoners, or under the guise of prisoners, weapons are transported, here we have a situation with hostages. so, accordingly, we have a situation of treachery, that is, all three hypothetical options, and the others simply cannot be, they testify that russia has committed relevant war crimes, violations of the third geneva convention, they themselves understand this, therefore all their statements, the whole show with the opinion there, the statements of the so-called russian diplomats, it has no legal dimension, it is a political dimension , this is a measure of the pressure on partners in... a country so peculiar, as they see it, the russians, they really see it, well, that is their specificity, the second is the intention to destabilize the situation in ukraine, ukrainian society, that is, again, this there is no legal dimension, again i can to emphasize that here, since russia is a terrorist state, and the practice of hostages

in russian, as they say, means of achieving goals, is a generally accepted phenomenon for them, any... let's say, sharp, very sharp public reaction to all these statements , i mean the ukrainian public reaction to all these statements of the aggressor, which they seek this reaction, it will push them to new similar provocations, that is, in the future we will see the same provocations, regressors in this situation, so here in this situation, what should we do, ukraine in in principle correctly demands an international investigation, it can already be stated that... the facts, unfortunately, will not be established for sure, because more than a day has passed since the statement of the aggressor, no one has shown the corpses of the prisoners, if there were any, there is no reliable, credible, audiofie video recordings of the situation, there is no admission of international representatives of anyone except russians to the place of events, the black

boxes were taken away by the mine defense of the russian federation, that is , after it did it, there is no trust in these blacks... there is none, that is, in fact for russia has done everything to undermine any confidence in further statements and further actions in this situation. well, unfortunately , you know, it turns out that after publishing this list, which they threw away, that simonyan published in the media, they practically, well, declared these people dead, so we can, well, predict, unfortunately, yes. regardless of what is really wrong with these people, they have already condemned them to death. for the aggressor, this is an absolutely standard phenomenon, and they constantly do this, not too much, it is their practice. yes, and we have to understand that now it is very difficult if these people were alive on the morning of the previous day, well, of course, the chances

of seeing them alive in the future are much less, we understand very well that for the sake of his... propaganda, well, the aggressor sacrificed a much larger number of his own population, that is this is repeated, this, if they were not on board, this is precisely the crime of reprisal, that is, in fact, the execution of the hostages, announced publicly, or another option, that they have already killed these people, and in this way they are simply trying to hide this murder, talking about the fact that these people are somewhere the boards blew up, so somehow this is also possible, let's find out. to your story, just like a russian one, let's see how the russian propagandist is trying to twist this whole situation, that no, no, well, it's normal that prisoners are transported by military aircraft in the zone of action and everything in general, let's just have a look, this some very vivid story, a targeted attack on an aircraft on board,

which was on board, it turns out at the moment, these are ordinary. citizens, but they are now prisoners of war, they are subject to in particular, the geneva convention, of course i understand that everyone spits on it, well, some ordinary citizens find themselves on a military plane, on which they accidentally became prisoners of war, well, that is how they are now saying that it is a slightly non-civilian plane, you understand? everything there, everything is subordinated to the propaganda thesis, the propaganda thesis, it has, it is not a legal matter, it has a very short period of existence, and the main thing now is to disperse... this topic, so you know, especially among those who will not think critically , that is, here we and the grandmother can somehow we will also see a crucified

boy on this plane, the main thing is that they make this their criminal message for them, that is, here the facts are for them, well, for them it is not some kind of, as they say, dogma or even a basis, here their imagination is not wide , so there is no reason to be surprised here, i repeat, it is possible. in this situation, only be based on clear conclusions, the conclusions are as follows: first, yes, there is a statement, yes, there are published lists, they were published by representatives of russian state propaganda, that is, this is a fact of russian behavior recorded, and the second fact is a fact that at this moment russia has already done everything to destroy all the evidence that these facts really come from there, well, actually... the main conclusion from your words is that no matter what happens there, in any case, this is a war crime by the russians, well, a war, that is, because in any

course of events, this is how it looks, thank you very much, it was boris babin, doctor of legal sciences, representative of the president of ukraine in the autonomous republic of crimea in 17-18 years, i thank him very much for joining our program, and the very end, so that you in general, already in... they realized how much this topic had been worked out for them, well, that is, they did not release information very quickly, very synchronously, they had some statements ready, so they also very, very promptly started to create some legends literally around that 's all the whole story, it's interesting that literally two hours after the plane fell, russian propagandists stitched together a whole legend, as if the pilots took the plane away from the village, and this legend... they told for half a day, while they even, well, you know, to themselves not in the head took, to find out the names of these pilots, well, that is, if it were not for radio liberty, which

somehow conducted its own quick investigation, found that it found out about it quickly enough, and it published the crew list sometime in the evening, so here they are about it about these incredible heroes from their point of view, they didn't even inquire about their names, that's it, but they found us. there are working materials for the preparation of local residents for the interview, and actually the very result of this interview on the air of russian channels, as they told this amazing the story, the pilots flew away from the village, and the plane , of course, you understand that it was dying, the pilots flew away from the villages, what did you say that they flew away from your village, oh my god, what can you say? the pilots decided to open the burning side and it fell in the fields, did you see how the guys brought this plane in? well, yes, in principle, he fell sharply, so

they finally went there, took him further. according to some data, the pilots managed to report the impact and apparently did not ask to leave the car. local residents say, to the last one was brought in with a padded side from residential houses so that people on the ground did not die, the population of yablony is about 200 people, they were the scene of their life... they took him and fell outside the village, we are proud of our guys who accomplished this feat, well if you you saw, these are completely different tv channels, and they are all fake, moreover, i will tell you, the evening tv news on this matter was also made fake, absolutely the same scheme, they are the same with the same words, in the same order served the same thing, moreover practically also the same video, there in some... places it was not even very clear whether the correspondents were changing, or whether it was all being read by the same person, so you know, some kind of meticulous

organization of the news, because it's not their kind, well, it's not even journalism, it 's just news prepared in advance, which are published in a certain order and with an absolutely neat scheme, suggests the idea that all this is not simple... even the reaction of the russians to that , that some event happened, and they just shot down their plane, which they are trying to present as something else, i think, no, that's not the point, i think that this is still, as i said at the beginning, this is a continuation of the story that they prepared precisely for lavov's trips to new york, where he makes political statements there and where the main goal is to stop the supply of weapons to ukraine and... to stop the supply of long-range weapons in particular, moreover, to stop some, it seems to me, decision that ukraine does not simply can, directly must. to wear

deep backs, well, for example, those airfields, with which planes take off, these planes that bomb ukraine constantly. well, that is, i think this is what we are talking about, and it seems to me that this is the essence of this whole story, that is why russia is now committing such, well, in fact, these are incredible crimes, these are crimes that sooner or later they will become obvious, as the crimes in bucha became obvious, as everything they did in mariupol became obvious, as the crimes eventually became obvious. in volenivka, it became obvious after some time there, despite the initial, maybe someone has some thoughts, there, not everything is so clear, well, you know, very little time passed and everything became very clear, all their bombings of donetsk, by the russians, which they did for provocations, also became obvious and witnesses appeared who said about it, yes, it was the russians, so it was the russians who did these shellings , that's what the russians themselves did, that's how

russia... shot, well, killed our ukrainian prisoners in olenivka, and i think that literally some time will pass, it will become clear, absolutely obvious, as zmeige 17 it became clear that it was the russians, what exactly the russians have now arranged this whole story the downing of this plane, and i don't know whether he was with people or not, that's another question, which, unfortunately, we will still find out, so we'll see you, but for now, this is our version. there are 15% discounts on tosmay in the psyllany bam and oskad pharmacies. there are discounts on hepargin of 10% in psyllanyk bam and oskad pharmacies. a separate platoon

of the sapsan unmanned aircraft complexes of the state special transport service appeals to the viewers of the espresso tv channel with a request to participate in the collection of funds, crowns and technical inheritance for our unit. thank you, glory to ukraine! glory to heroes. exclusively on the air of our channel. congratulations, friends, politklub is on the air on the espresso tv channel. the most relevant topics of the week. russia's war against ukraine, the war in the middle east, the crisis on the border between ukraine and poland. topics that resonate in our society. drone attack on kyiv and other cities of ukraine, drone attack on

moscow and others. cities of russia, analysis of the processes that change the country and each of us, the country should get the right to start negotiations simply b. vitaly portnikov and guests of the project: us boring, because there is nothing to fight about, let's invent, help to understand the present and predict the future, for the world the second presidency of trump will be terrible, a project for those who care and think politclub, every sunday at 20:10 on espresso. greetings, dear viewers, on espresso tv channel, studio zahid program, we will analyze the most important events of this week, there are quite a lot of them, and all of them will have an extremely serious continuation in the near

future, ours today. special guests are roman bezsmertny and myroslav cheh. now on the air roman bezsmertny, an iconic ukrainian politician and diplomat, will work on the tv channel. glory to ukraine, mr. ambassador, i congratulate you. glory to the heroes, good day, mr. antin. the fall of il-76 in the belgorod region. yes, the story is extremely difficult, the story, i would say so, is even multi-echeloned, but in any case, as of now, the russians will try to use it for their own purposes. of course. it is clear that this story is not played out to the end, and its original meaning is that several factors that will not give the russians the opportunity to leave this thing out of informational attention. the first of them is very significant, it is an international component, and those correctly noticed that

this plane was flying along... a very interesting route: egypt, syria, russia, and those.